A real challenge to the new W221?
01-17-2006, 08:04 PM
#76
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355 F1 Spider & ......V12 w220.176
To add fuel to the fire....................
I've been waiting to view the w221. My local dealer in DC did not have any last month when I stopped by. So, I made a special trip to fly to the North American International Auto Show in Detroit last week. I specifically wanted to see the Ferraris / MB / and now this Lexus. I was very disappointed in the lack of assistance in the MB booth and the W221 was locked. I couldn't even get inside. By invitation I was in the Ferrari booth with the FXX, 430, 612, but for some reason MB wants to take someone who is already not sure of the build quality and upset him further by having some elitist attitude. BTW- I did ask someone in the MB booth if the w221 could be opened and was told no. Now I was with a top VP at DCX and if I pressed it, I'm sure it could have been done.... but that wasn't the point.
I walked over to the Lexus booth where the LS was open to view. Now, it's not in production yet so it was up on a platform. But, from what I saw it looks like it might be worth while to be patient.
FWIW - The Audi A8 12cyl you could get in also.
I've been waiting to view the w221. My local dealer in DC did not have any last month when I stopped by. So, I made a special trip to fly to the North American International Auto Show in Detroit last week. I specifically wanted to see the Ferraris / MB / and now this Lexus. I was very disappointed in the lack of assistance in the MB booth and the W221 was locked. I couldn't even get inside. By invitation I was in the Ferrari booth with the FXX, 430, 612, but for some reason MB wants to take someone who is already not sure of the build quality and upset him further by having some elitist attitude. BTW- I did ask someone in the MB booth if the w221 could be opened and was told no. Now I was with a top VP at DCX and if I pressed it, I'm sure it could have been done.... but that wasn't the point.
I walked over to the Lexus booth where the LS was open to view. Now, it's not in production yet so it was up on a platform. But, from what I saw it looks like it might be worth while to be patient.
FWIW - The Audi A8 12cyl you could get in also.
01-17-2006, 08:09 PM
#77
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2007 E63
Originally Posted by LetsJet
To add fuel to the fire....................
I've been waiting to view the w221. My local dealer in DC did not have any last month when I stopped by. So, I made a special trip to fly to the North American International Auto Show in Detroit last week. I specifically wanted to see the Ferraris / MB / and now this Lexus. I was very disappointed in the lack of assistance in the MB booth and the W221 was locked. I couldn't even get inside. By invitation I was in the Ferrari booth with the FXX, 430, 612, but for some reason MB wants to take someone who is already not sure of the build quality and upset him further by having some elitist attitude. BTW- I did ask someone in the MB booth if the w221 could be opened and was told no. Now I was with a top VP at DCX and if I pressed it, I'm sure it could have been done.... but that wasn't the point.
I walked over to the Lexus booth where the LS was open to view. Now, it's not in production yet so it was up on a platform. But, from what I saw it looks like it might be worth while to be patient.
FWIW - The Audi A8 12cyl you could get in also.
I've been waiting to view the w221. My local dealer in DC did not have any last month when I stopped by. So, I made a special trip to fly to the North American International Auto Show in Detroit last week. I specifically wanted to see the Ferraris / MB / and now this Lexus. I was very disappointed in the lack of assistance in the MB booth and the W221 was locked. I couldn't even get inside. By invitation I was in the Ferrari booth with the FXX, 430, 612, but for some reason MB wants to take someone who is already not sure of the build quality and upset him further by having some elitist attitude. BTW- I did ask someone in the MB booth if the w221 could be opened and was told no. Now I was with a top VP at DCX and if I pressed it, I'm sure it could have been done.... but that wasn't the point.
I walked over to the Lexus booth where the LS was open to view. Now, it's not in production yet so it was up on a platform. But, from what I saw it looks like it might be worth while to be patient.
FWIW - The Audi A8 12cyl you could get in also.
01-22-2006, 06:49 PM
#82
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Mercedes all the way!
I walked over to the Lexus booth where the LS was open to view. Now, it's not in production yet so it was up on a platform.
They want style, luxury, perfomance, reliability, and a good dealer experience. The LS460 may ultimately be better suited to deliver all of these qualities in 2007.
here in Asia there is no comparison: dealers are generally fantastic - i've had my E checked by specialist technicians flown in, for free. Merc is 2nd for dealer satisfaction in Malaysia, for e.g., above Toyota and below Honda: http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2004059
haven't had a thing go wrong either, so i must be charmed, lol, or perhaps reliability problems don't constitute such a huge percentage of total owners after all. or perhaps RHD cars are somehow better built =)
oh, i agree this is "on topic"
i certainly am eagerly awaiting a proper shootout.
01-22-2006, 07:17 PM
#83
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03' Merc G-500, 04' Merc S-600 AMG, 95' Merc E-320 Cab, 05' Jaguar Super V8, 00' Jaguar XK8
Originally Posted by Braheem
380 out of a 4.6 by that standard thier 6.3 would have 540HP 
dont worry everyone you dont have to buy a Toyota or a copy of anything it's a free country you're welcome to keep praising the w221's rx-8 flares, crown vic/745 interior and 745 rear as a Mercedes innovation.
dont worry everyone you dont have to buy a Toyota or a copy of anything it's a free country you're welcome to keep praising the w221's rx-8 flares, crown vic/745 interior and 745 rear as a Mercedes innovation.
01-22-2006, 10:35 PM
#84
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355 F1 Spider & ......V12 w220.176
Originally Posted by ruykava
hehe, so it was open but no one can see the inside because it was up on a platform?
01-26-2006, 11:48 PM
#86
Originally Posted by jangy
I just can't get a V8 under 5 liters.
The Ferrari F40 is a 2.9L V8.. and it still makes great numbers.
478hp @ 7000rpm but of course it's turboed.
The point I am trying to make is focus on the numbers.. the torque at what RPMs. I haven't searched hard enough for it.. but I think the S550 might feel more comfortable accelerating because of the inherent nature of a larger displacement engine allowing more torque to be developed at a lower rpm..
but of course.. Lexus might have been able to work some magic with their super duper advanced 4.6L.
01-26-2006, 11:58 PM
#87
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The IS350's are running low 13's stock with a 3.5 V6, The LS460 will probably be high 13's when the 4.6 Lire gets put into the new GS in 2007 Lexus should have it's first 12 second car. 4 litre or not that aint bad for a Toyota 
01-27-2006, 01:32 AM
#88
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The late 80's Buick Grand Nationals ran high-11's low-12's stock with a 3.5L turbocharged V6 -- WGAF? And that was 20 years ago! Still ended up being a Body-by-Fisher POS after 4 or 5 years and you could pick one of those up for less than $10K.
I seriously doubt that ANY new Lexus is going to mount a serious challenge to MBZ S-Class W221 potential buyers or owners, let alone to the car itself. This car will go down in MBZ hsitory as one of their best - and best-loved - cars.
There - how's that for a prediction?
And the LS460 may or may not go down in Lexus history as one of their better cars and favorites of LEXUS owners. But who here cares?!!!!!!!!!
This is a site for MBZ enthusiasts - do you really think that more than a half-dozen or so of us give a duck about a Lexus?!!! Any Lexus?!!!
That more than a half-dozen of us would consider the new LEXUS LS460 to be "A real challenge to the W221"?!!!!!!!
LET THIS THREAD DIE THE DEATH IT DESERVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(...OK - I feel better now...).
I seriously doubt that ANY new Lexus is going to mount a serious challenge to MBZ S-Class W221 potential buyers or owners, let alone to the car itself. This car will go down in MBZ hsitory as one of their best - and best-loved - cars.
There - how's that for a prediction?
And the LS460 may or may not go down in Lexus history as one of their better cars and favorites of LEXUS owners. But who here cares?!!!!!!!!!
This is a site for MBZ enthusiasts - do you really think that more than a half-dozen or so of us give a duck about a Lexus?!!! Any Lexus?!!!
That more than a half-dozen of us would consider the new LEXUS LS460 to be "A real challenge to the W221"?!!!!!!!
LET THIS THREAD DIE THE DEATH IT DESERVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(...OK - I feel better now...).
Last edited by ClayJ; 01-27-2006 at 03:57 AM.
01-27-2006, 01:44 AM
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2005 C320wz
i saw the new S-class sedan today at the dealer and it looked real nice.
When I first saw the pics of the car on the internet, i didn't like it but I have changed my mind.
When I first saw the pics of the car on the internet, i didn't like it but I have changed my mind.
01-28-2006, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zam2000
I don't think any of us here have a clue of what you're trying to say.
1. What do you mean fair: both S and LS are fullsize luxury sedan, target at the same customer base, why shoudn't we compare them ?
2. So you saw the new S550 at the dealer, and it's "ALL S" class. So I guess whatever other people saw must be "partial S" class ?
3. So you say every component of the Lexus seem to be stolen from other cars. Doesn't the interior of the new W221 remind you of some other car (hint: Bimmer), how about the trunk lid/back ?.
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control, touch screen GPS. I guess you don't watch Fomula-1 racing, Toyota engine smoke the rest by ages, and you're probably right in this case: Lexus wouldn't mind to "copy" the superior from their racing engine design brother into its own engine. Let's not talk about the electronic here....
5. So the new W221 have slot of SD (listen to MP3 music), wooow, big deal ? A $120 Sony car stereo unit at Circuit City has that feature, a year ago....
6. Your Jeep have DVD based GPS ? So ???
The S is a great car, no doubt about it. However, stop smoking Benz exhaust fume and think no other car should dare to be compared with it.
Btw, the W221 will be on sale in the US in Feb, as "2007" model. How pity: car made in 2005, sold as "2007". The rest of the world has it as "2006" model year, must feel great driving the first "2007" car in the US market then.
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
1. What do you mean fair: both S and LS are fullsize luxury sedan, target at the same customer base, why shoudn't we compare them ?
2. So you saw the new S550 at the dealer, and it's "ALL S" class. So I guess whatever other people saw must be "partial S" class ?
3. So you say every component of the Lexus seem to be stolen from other cars. Doesn't the interior of the new W221 remind you of some other car (hint: Bimmer), how about the trunk lid/back ?.
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control, touch screen GPS. I guess you don't watch Fomula-1 racing, Toyota engine smoke the rest by ages, and you're probably right in this case: Lexus wouldn't mind to "copy" the superior from their racing engine design brother into its own engine. Let's not talk about the electronic here....
5. So the new W221 have slot of SD (listen to MP3 music), wooow, big deal ? A $120 Sony car stereo unit at Circuit City has that feature, a year ago....
6. Your Jeep have DVD based GPS ? So ???
The S is a great car, no doubt about it. However, stop smoking Benz exhaust fume and think no other car should dare to be compared with it.
Btw, the W221 will be on sale in the US in Feb, as "2007" model. How pity: car made in 2005, sold as "2007". The rest of the world has it as "2006" model year, must feel great driving the first "2007" car in the US market then.
Make sure you talk to those who bought the w220 when it first came out in 99 to prepare yourself for frequent dealer visit.
The only person smoking exhaust fumes is you.
I'm tired of hearing how MB copied BMW's trunk lid. Maybach photos/sketches were circulating on the web back in 97 way before any 7 series.
You must be kidding about Toyota F1 racing. Toyota is the biggest joke in F1. Toyota has been in F1 for 6 years now and have ZERO wins.
Toyota + BIGGEST BUDGET + poached F1 engineers + 6 years = ZERO
Seems that their copying and espionage is not limited to their road cars. Now they are being sued by Ferrari for Corporate espionage and the people involved face jail time.
I would rather drive a car designed by a company with a rich history and tradition than a car designed by corporate spies.
01-28-2006, 01:21 PM
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2001 E320
Originally Posted by G55K
I agree that it's hard to get passionate about a Lexus like you can about a Mercedes.
01-29-2006, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard / E320
While Lexus does build excellent quality vehicles, I agree with your remark about 'passion'. How many older Lexus are tucked away in someone's garage, being lovingly restored? How about in 20 years? How many Lexus models out there are sought out by collectors? None come to my mind, but I'm sure someone will correct me...
01-29-2006, 08:51 PM
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2007 E63
Originally Posted by Braheem
While the passion may not be there in driving Toyota is the only car manufacturer (excluding antiques, collector items) to have a car appreciate in value. A 10 year old Supra is worth more today then in the showroom 10 years ago.
01-29-2006, 11:14 PM
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"A Mercedes-Benz product"
Originally Posted by zam2000
4. Think Mercedes is ahead of the rest in term of technology ? That might be true 10-15 years ago, but now, it's no longer the case. For example: the W220 doesn't even have active headlight, laser based cruise control.....
LEXUS: The passionate pursuit of perception
01-29-2006, 11:25 PM
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4 wheels
The Laser Cruise system that Lexus was using was much slower than that of the radar based system mercedes was using. So as a result they switched to radar too.
01-29-2006, 11:40 PM
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355 F1 Spider & ......V12 w220.176
Guys,
My first car was a MB........ I've always loved MB..... My family has always owned one.
That said, I recently had an op. to test drive the w221 S550. I was less then impressed. The cars interior didn't look very refined for an S. The power was ok.... The electronics were easy to figure out, but a bit of a pain to move from one device to another. The back seats didn't have controls so I can't comment on that. All said, it just didn't give me a MB feeling. It was very disappointing as I've been waiting to get in one for well, as long as you have.
I saw the Lexus at the NAIAS and it has at least one potential w221 owner looking hard at it.
I hate to say it
My first car was a MB........ I've always loved MB..... My family has always owned one.
That said, I recently had an op. to test drive the w221 S550. I was less then impressed. The cars interior didn't look very refined for an S. The power was ok.... The electronics were easy to figure out, but a bit of a pain to move from one device to another. The back seats didn't have controls so I can't comment on that. All said, it just didn't give me a MB feeling. It was very disappointing as I've been waiting to get in one for well, as long as you have.
I saw the Lexus at the NAIAS and it has at least one potential w221 owner looking hard at it.
I hate to say it
01-29-2006, 11:55 PM
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I think once dealers begin to build up inventory and we are allowed to go on extended test drives we are going to see how nice the S really is. I had an opportunity recently to test drive the S for about 20 minutes and play with the COMAND controller and found it very intuitive and easy to use over my iDrive 750li.
Globally the S will outsell the LS. I am sure that even here in the states we will see some fierce sales for the new S. It just seems to me that its more luxurious than the new LS. Just my 2 cents.
Globally the S will outsell the LS. I am sure that even here in the states we will see some fierce sales for the new S. It just seems to me that its more luxurious than the new LS. Just my 2 cents.
02-03-2006, 03:33 AM
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08 Lexus IS350
Originally Posted by MB Fanatic
My sister had a new SC430 not too long ago with all the trimmings and needless to say how "cute" it looked and the features it had the engine felt lethargic, and the drive was very anemic not to mention scary.
I also had the pleasure of joining a friend in his new LS430 recently with the sport package? to BLythe CA, and for those who go out in that area the road is fairly bump and what not. The car was very unstable and to be honest it made me sick. A car should be able to instill passion into a persons heart as a result of its looks, features, content and other aspects.
The SUV's like the LX and GX on the other hand are solid vehicles and drive great all while giving a solid ride. I cant say the same about the RX which is nothing more than a glorified Toyota Camry or Lexus ES.
I also had the pleasure of joining a friend in his new LS430 recently with the sport package? to BLythe CA, and for those who go out in that area the road is fairly bump and what not. The car was very unstable and to be honest it made me sick. A car should be able to instill passion into a persons heart as a result of its looks, features, content and other aspects.
The SUV's like the LX and GX on the other hand are solid vehicles and drive great all while giving a solid ride. I cant say the same about the RX which is nothing more than a glorified Toyota Camry or Lexus ES.
Lots of luxury car buyers do not need passions in their cars, but extreme comfort and quietness. In this department nobody could beat LS430 so far, not until the new LS460 comes out. If the road is excessively bumpy, then I guess any car would make you sick, not only Lexus, and the Benz you are so fanatic about would too. When you say "...... RX which is nothing more than a gloried Toyota Camry or Lexus ES" you sound like these three are not worth mentioning. Now let me tell you if you sell a car for $100,000, it is supposed to and got to be good because you could buy up to five Toyota Camrys for this price. But could Mercedes-Benz sell a car at $20k as good as this eight year U.S. best selling car? Everybody could dump punch of features into a car, but could the company make them last long and provide the excellent service as Lexus/Toyota do in case something goes wrong? ES and RX are both excellent vehicles, reliable and with high level of comfort at a reasonable price. Don't try to evade other people's strongs and only emphasize on their weaks. Sure Mercedes-Benz vehicles have a very strong character and do indeed provide their owners true real luxury high class feel, but there are still some things the current Benz vehicles need to be improved on, particularly reliability.
Last edited by 95AccordV6; 02-03-2006 at 03:51 AM.
