Doctodd33

Yea, he said bland......like 6 months ago?!?!?! Late reaction.....and what's up with resurrecting this thread??!?!?!?!

T

mand

The 7 is nice, but there is definetely something missing. It just doesn't have that sharp look to it, its missing some crucial appeal. Whenever I see one on the road it takes me a second to notice it. All because it doesn't stand out, when you spend $100K or more on a top of the line luxury cruiser, you sure as hell better stand out, and for the price you're paying, the S550 is the best way to do it, either that or drop another $100K and get yourself a Bentley and call it a day... Now can we put this thread to rest?

TeutonicCarFan

What kills the 7 IMO is not the ouside, because it offers a unique Bangle design (although I think the only good car of his is the m6), but the inside. It seems cheap to me compared to the S. I have speant a lot of time in both, well not much in the new S, but enough to realize that the 7 is a loser on the inside.
P.S. Why the vintage thread outta nowhere?

mand

I don't even know, I'm just making a replay to his post, that resurected the thread.

TeutonicCarFan

It was not a response to you just one in general, though maybe there was some adjustments to the price for 07 or something that may have demanded discussion.

P.S. I love the color on the passat, I have a 01 jetta GLX VR6 and I LOVE it.

carsinamerica

Sorry, I only saw the thread because of someone else chiming in with a consensus view a couple days ago. I didn't check the rest of the dates. My bad. But I still like the 7er for its sportiness, and its cold exterior. Just feels...icy, I guess, especially with the '06 facelift. I'd like it better, though, if they'd get off their collective tushes and get moving on the Alpina B7 that was supposed to arrive in July. THAT stands out.

TeutonicCarFan

Indeed the B7 does look like it will be an interesting addition to the uber saloons available in the US. I was looking up Alpina's on the net and I had two questions:
Do they only come in blue (granted I do LOVE that blue)?
Alpina, as I understand, is an aftermarket upgrade company who happens to have the exclusivety of working in the actual BMW plants and some of the work in their own plants. What I am wondering is, why do they allow this, why not make an M7 and such???

mand

I was replying to carsinamerica.. Thanks for the compliment, I have this special love for Volkswagens, they're great cars. Affordable, reliable, and where I live they stand out...
My area is predominately east-indian(so is my family) and indian people here have to have their benz', so we had a choice, c-class, 3 series, or passat, fresh passat vs. cars that everybody already has. We were the first in the area with the B6, and till today there are only about 3 others in town. Now all i have to do is mod it.

carsinamerica

Lol, no they come in other colours, too. In fact, the BMW Alpina Roadster V8 (the Alpina Z8) was only sold in silver or black in the US; you couldn't get the blue at all. I think they made 6 colours of that model for the ROW. It is a sweet blue, though, isn't it? Hopefully the B7 will have more of the Alpina options available, like all-Alcantara seats and the like.

As to your other question, Alpina has always had a special relationship with BMW. BMW likes what Alpina does to its vehicles, and believes that Alpina's work polishes the brand's apple. The other main BMW tuners (AC Schnitzer and Hartge) do a pretty good job, too, but Alpina's always had a special place in BMW's heart. I don't know too much about how it started, except that Alpina started some conversions on the BMW New Series models, and BMW was impressed by the quality and performance of the work. Early high-quality tuning by Alpina helped enhance BMW's brand image as a sporting marque, and they developed more performance from BMW cars for those who really wanted it (albeit at sometimes considerable expense). They also raced BMW-Alpinas, and that brought more fame for BMW, so BMW got plenty from Alpina's work. That made them more amenable to providing more direct access for Alpina in return. The net result, though, is that the two companies share some things back and forth (the engine in the BMW X5 4.6is was, I believe, based on an Alpina motor). Alpinas carry the full brand warranty, and the on-the-line adaptations mean that Alpina has more leeway in tuning suspensions and the like without having to tear the cars to pieces after completion, like Schnitzer or Hartge do. (Even so, the Hartge H1 is awesome, isn't it? Old M5 engine in the 1-Series. Woo-hoo!) It's possible, I suppose, that Alpina might eventually be bought by BMW, like AMG was brought into the fold by Daimler-Benz. As it stands, they are a registered manufacturer in Germany, but the cars still have the roundel on the bonnet.

As to why BMW allows vehicles like the B7, one first has to consider the relationship between BMW and their in-house M Gmbh, and contrast M Gmbh with AMG. AMG models are more powerful, stiffer suspensions, bigger brakes and all that, and plenty of exterior accoutrements, but they aren't tuned as ferociously as M-model BMWs. All BMW M's, for example, have manual transmissions, clutchless or otherwise. Their handling is much sharper than their conventional counterparts; the difference is more pronounced than the difference between regular M-B and AMG-tuned models, in raw handling. AMG delivers far better straight-line performance than standard M-Bs, and M does too, but M's just have a harder edge to them. AMG has paid more attention to overall handling lately, so the gap closes slightly, but the manual tranny is still one big difference.

M also tunes a limited range of BMW's, and for a specific reason. While AMG has AMG variants of the G- and M-Class SUVs, and R-Class minivan, as well as all of their car lines except the A and B-Classes, M only produces 3 fully-tuned models: the M3, the M5 sedan, and the M6. This is because M doesn't want to compromise, and they haven't seen a way to incorporate all of the sheer sportiness factor into things like the X5. This is also why they haven't done an M7: the 7-Series is big and burly, and while it corners well in its class, M (thusfar) simply hasn't viewed it as being capable of being brought up to their idea of what an M7 should be. Rumours keep popping up about an imminent M7, and they might, but to date, they just haven't wanted to do it. This also makes M rather more exclusive. M-B is starting to understand this: that is part of why AMG is now developing Signature Series and Black Series models in the AMG family, and why they've said they won't do a GL-Class AMG. M models are great cars on the road or on tracks, but they do typically carry some compromises, and especially with the manny, they lose some buyers. Backing off that extra ten percent or so gives AMG a much better cross-section of potential buyers. I still thing AMG went to far in diluting the potential of the brand by offering the R63, but that's just my own bias.

Alpina provides a different experience from M models. Alpinas often have manumatic transmissions, but they are slushboxes. They're tuned for a little more ride compliance, so they're smoother over bumps and humps. They've lately incorporated supercharging into their engines, so they have a more linear power delivery than M powerplants, which are always high-revving beasts. Alpinas are simply more about highway cruising, right down to the seats being comfier and less rigidly bolstered. Autocar brought this out in a superb comparison test between an M5 and an Alpina B5. It's also plainly evident by comparing the BMW Z8 and the Alpina Roadster V8 variant. The Z8 was tuned to be an expression of BMW's theories, with plenty of input from M. It used the M5 V-8 engine, and ahad a stick-shift. Along comes Alpina, who dropped a lower-output (but rather torquier, which is oft forgotten) engine into it, and added a slushbox. The result was the sort of car that could better compete as a highway cruiser with the likes of the Jaguar XK8 and Mercedes-Benz SL. Some went so far as to say that it was BMW should have built in the first place; they thought the Z8 was too focused as a driver's car, and too narrow in its appeal for that reason. Alpinas are also generally flashier than M models, with those very distinctive 20-spoke wheels, bolder spoilers, and the like. M's are somewhat harder to spot, apart from the badges, at least until the current M5. Alpina also has a wider range of models: they did an 8-Series model, they've done 7-Series conversions for some time, and they currently offer a 3-Series diesel sedan, and they beat M to the punch with a tuned version of the Z4 roadster.

To me, Alpina is really the closer counterpart to AMG than M, at least from a character perspective. That's why BMW works closely with them, I suspect. Due to exchange rates and costs, Alpina models will be pricy in the US (about $130k for the B7, ouch!), and BMW has said they won't import Alpina models that compete with M models, because they think the market is somewhat narrow to begin with. But, if BMW doesn't plan an M version of things like the 7-Series, then the Alpina B7 will fill the gap to counter the S63 AMG. It's an interesting decision. I wouldn't be surprised to see the B5 wagon at some point in the future, too.

Sorry this got long, Teutonic. I just like Alpinas (can you tell?) Hope this answers your question in overly-through detail.

Nevada Jack

No you're not....

carsinamerica

LMAO!!! You're right. I was bored. I was going to warn of another "L version" response, but I wasn't sure if people on this thread would get the joke.

TeutonicCarFan

cars thanks for the in depth response to my question as I wasn't completely familiar with the alpina cars very much. It will be exciting if we see an Alpina B7 because I think it looks awesome and the interior is amazing, a huge step up from the normal interior that I personally don't like. I find it interesting that BMW sells a tuner version of their car as brand new in their showrooms but as a consumer I am happy because that means full warranty and BMW service. I like the Ms too however as they bring sporting to a whole new level, i guess we should be on the lookout for the B ..

NeverColdCall

The killer for me on the 7-Series was the interior. My girlfriend and I went car browsing for a day for fun as there's a big automall nearby and sat in a new 7-Series. We were stunned at the poor quality of the interior. It's very cheap looking, like something you'd expect in a Honda. Even the W220 interior, as disappointing as that was for an MB, was superior in quality. Now that I've had the S550 for just over 2 months, there is no comparison at all.

Driving the S550 is pure joy, I never knew how good a car can be.

W210

BMW USA realizes the subpar interior of the 7 hence made available the BMW Individual program in 2007.

BMW Individual makes a huge difference, much nicer leather and trim (piano black).

CY

IMO the S and 7 just arent on the same level....the 7's platform has been in the states since 01 as an 02 and has just got its refresh....the S is all new everything....the real question is how ugly the next 7 will be???