Profile of S-Class Buyer
#326
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Automobile Magazine Reviews 2009 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG
By Phil Floraday, Evan McCausland, Jennifer Misaros, Amy Skogstrom
Earlier this year I spent some time behind the wheel of a Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG, and I walked away a bit underwhelmed. But I had the same car again for a weekend and loved every minute of it.
AMG's normally aspirated 6.2-liter V-8 is as delightful as ever, and there is a very pleasant, refined exhaust tone when you boot it. Since the S63 was still wearing summer rubber and temperatures hovered around freezing with a decent amount of rain and snow in the mix, I didn't get much spirited driving time, and that's a shame. This car moves pretty well given its curb weight and the 6.2-liter's preference for lots of revs. If you're going to spring for a car like this (and you live in a northern state), be sure to buy winter rubber.
I was a bit disappointed this S-class didn't come with a rearview camera. Backing such a long car into a parking garage space is a bit difficult with only the small side mirrors. I'd gladly trade the night view system for a regular rearview camera to make sure I don't scratch my bumper or overhang a parking spot and get clipped by another driver.
Distronic cruise control continues to amuse me and amaze my passengers. It isn't cheap, but when your car starts at $132k, less than $3k for intelligent cruise control sounds justifiable.
Phil Floraday, Senior Online Editor
Like Phil, my time behind the wheel of the Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG came during some wintry Michigan weather, so I wasn't able to enjoy the S63 to its fullest performance potential. That's not to say it rained on my parade (technically, it sleeted)-I still enjoyed my time behind the wheel of the big Benz.
Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but a car this size just feels best as a proper four-door sedan. I drove the Mercedes CL63 AMG-essentially a two-door variant of this same car-a few months back, and though I enjoyed it, I couldn't help thinking I'd enjoy the S-class version better-it just felt odd for a car so large to simply be a coupe. I ended up proving myself correct, though I couldn't help but wish for the lower seating position afforded by the SL. Perhaps I'm just never satisfied.
I was, however, more than satisfied with virtually everything else. Although enthusiasts regard the AMG models as performance vehicles (which they truly are), there just isn't enough written about the stupefying levels of luxury contained within their interiors. No matter which seating position you're in, the S63's cabin is warm and inviting and rewards all with a level of comfort and pampering it's hard to find elsewhere.
Evan McCausland, Web Producer
I was not overly impressed with the S63 AMG. I found the S-class unconvincing in high-powered, AMG drag. Yes, it's blindingly quick, but the non-AMG S600 is plenty fast. The soundtrack, though, is truly intoxicating and I found myself burying the throttle just to hear it.
I agree with Phil that on a car this large a rearview camera is nearly a necessity and a notable oversight on a car this expensive and loaded down with every gadget imaginable.
Jennifer Misaros, Production Editor
I've now driven several AMG Mercedes-Benzes with the normally aspirated 6.2-liter V-8 and have come away from each iteration impressed. The S63 sounds great, looks great, and makes you feel like a million bucks when you're behind the wheel. The exterior styling is distinctive but tasteful - it's obvious that this isn't a run-of-the-mill S-class. The interior is ultraluxurious, with high-quality leather and wood swathing everything. Still, with today's economy, the extra $42,000 over the price of an S550 is no small thing. Luckily for Mercedes, there will always be a slice of the market that is unaffected by financial turmoil and is unfazed by economic uncertainty. For them, the S63 AMG is a worthwhile addition to their garage.
Amy Skogstrom, Managing Editor
2009 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG
Base Price (with destination): $132,225
Price as tested: $144,840
Options:
-iPod Integration Kit - $425
-Panorama Sunroof - $1,050
-Premium III: Night View Assist - $1,710
-AMG Performance Package - $7,070
-Distronic Plus Package - $2,880
-Gas Guzzler Tax - $3,000
Fuel Economy: 11 / 17 /13 (city/hwy/combined)
Engine:
Size: 6.2L V8
HP: 518 HP @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 465 lb-ft @ 5,200 rpm
Safety Ratings (in stars, 1-5):
-Frontal Crash Driver: Not Rated
-Frontal Crash Passenger: Not Rated
-Side Crash Front Seat: Not Rated
-Side Crash Rear Seat: Not Rated
-Rollover: Not Rated
Transmission: 7-Speed Automatic Transmission
Weight: 4663 lb
Wheel/Tire Info:
- 20" AMG 5-Spoke Light Alloy Wheels
- Front: 255/35 ZR20
- Rear: 275/35 ZR20
By Phil Floraday, Evan McCausland, Jennifer Misaros, Amy Skogstrom
Earlier this year I spent some time behind the wheel of a Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG, and I walked away a bit underwhelmed. But I had the same car again for a weekend and loved every minute of it.
AMG's normally aspirated 6.2-liter V-8 is as delightful as ever, and there is a very pleasant, refined exhaust tone when you boot it. Since the S63 was still wearing summer rubber and temperatures hovered around freezing with a decent amount of rain and snow in the mix, I didn't get much spirited driving time, and that's a shame. This car moves pretty well given its curb weight and the 6.2-liter's preference for lots of revs. If you're going to spring for a car like this (and you live in a northern state), be sure to buy winter rubber.
I was a bit disappointed this S-class didn't come with a rearview camera. Backing such a long car into a parking garage space is a bit difficult with only the small side mirrors. I'd gladly trade the night view system for a regular rearview camera to make sure I don't scratch my bumper or overhang a parking spot and get clipped by another driver.
Distronic cruise control continues to amuse me and amaze my passengers. It isn't cheap, but when your car starts at $132k, less than $3k for intelligent cruise control sounds justifiable.
Phil Floraday, Senior Online Editor
Like Phil, my time behind the wheel of the Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG came during some wintry Michigan weather, so I wasn't able to enjoy the S63 to its fullest performance potential. That's not to say it rained on my parade (technically, it sleeted)-I still enjoyed my time behind the wheel of the big Benz.
Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but a car this size just feels best as a proper four-door sedan. I drove the Mercedes CL63 AMG-essentially a two-door variant of this same car-a few months back, and though I enjoyed it, I couldn't help thinking I'd enjoy the S-class version better-it just felt odd for a car so large to simply be a coupe. I ended up proving myself correct, though I couldn't help but wish for the lower seating position afforded by the SL. Perhaps I'm just never satisfied.
I was, however, more than satisfied with virtually everything else. Although enthusiasts regard the AMG models as performance vehicles (which they truly are), there just isn't enough written about the stupefying levels of luxury contained within their interiors. No matter which seating position you're in, the S63's cabin is warm and inviting and rewards all with a level of comfort and pampering it's hard to find elsewhere.
Evan McCausland, Web Producer
I was not overly impressed with the S63 AMG. I found the S-class unconvincing in high-powered, AMG drag. Yes, it's blindingly quick, but the non-AMG S600 is plenty fast. The soundtrack, though, is truly intoxicating and I found myself burying the throttle just to hear it.
I agree with Phil that on a car this large a rearview camera is nearly a necessity and a notable oversight on a car this expensive and loaded down with every gadget imaginable.
Jennifer Misaros, Production Editor
I've now driven several AMG Mercedes-Benzes with the normally aspirated 6.2-liter V-8 and have come away from each iteration impressed. The S63 sounds great, looks great, and makes you feel like a million bucks when you're behind the wheel. The exterior styling is distinctive but tasteful - it's obvious that this isn't a run-of-the-mill S-class. The interior is ultraluxurious, with high-quality leather and wood swathing everything. Still, with today's economy, the extra $42,000 over the price of an S550 is no small thing. Luckily for Mercedes, there will always be a slice of the market that is unaffected by financial turmoil and is unfazed by economic uncertainty. For them, the S63 AMG is a worthwhile addition to their garage.
Amy Skogstrom, Managing Editor
2009 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG
Base Price (with destination): $132,225
Price as tested: $144,840
Options:
-iPod Integration Kit - $425
-Panorama Sunroof - $1,050
-Premium III: Night View Assist - $1,710
-AMG Performance Package - $7,070
-Distronic Plus Package - $2,880
-Gas Guzzler Tax - $3,000
Fuel Economy: 11 / 17 /13 (city/hwy/combined)
Engine:
Size: 6.2L V8
HP: 518 HP @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 465 lb-ft @ 5,200 rpm
Safety Ratings (in stars, 1-5):
-Frontal Crash Driver: Not Rated
-Frontal Crash Passenger: Not Rated
-Side Crash Front Seat: Not Rated
-Side Crash Rear Seat: Not Rated
-Rollover: Not Rated
Transmission: 7-Speed Automatic Transmission
Weight: 4663 lb
Wheel/Tire Info:
- 20" AMG 5-Spoke Light Alloy Wheels
- Front: 255/35 ZR20
- Rear: 275/35 ZR20
#327
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG Dyno Results
Automobile Magazine puts the big twin-turbo V-12 on the dyno. The dyno melted.
For a cool $183,000 (NOV 2006) you, too can have the most delightfully overpowered S-Class in the world - the S65 AMG. It has a 6.0-liter, twin-turbocharged 36-valve V-12 that makes, according to Mercedes, 604 hp @ 4800rpm and (are you sitting?) 738 lb-ft of torque in a plateau between 2000 and 4000 rpm. Holy (@#$*&.
Okay, stop hyperventilating. Yeah, it lays rubber all the way to 60 mph (and beyond, if you're not careful). But if you ignore the fact that those numbers are so high, you'll see something interesting - a horsepower peak at 4800 rpm? That's unusually low.
Even GM's technology-from-1882 3.8-liter pushrod V-6 makes its peak at a higher rpm - 5200. What this means is that, powerful as AMG's V-12 is, it doesn't rev very high.
Mercedes quotes the V-12's peak torque from as low as 2000 rpm, but therein lies a problem. This motor makes so much power that even in fourth gear, it spun the dyno up so quickly that it didn't make full boost until 4000 rpm. Real life is no different - the S65 feels like it has the world's most narrow power band. It's either ON (with the largest capital letters you can imagine), or off.
I'm not a huge fan of this engine for a few reasons. Firstly, it has that narrow power band. Secondly, it has enormous turbo lag. And mostly, the car can't handle it. A big Mercedes sedan costing practically as much as 10 Honda Civics should be fluid, smooth, and fast. On the highway, the S65 is obscenely capable, fast, refined, and wonderful. It is, in my book and without question, the best Autobahn car in the world.
Unfortunately, off the line, and at speeds legal in the US, it's a lumbering fool.
Picture this: You just dropped $200k on an S65 and get your best buddy in the passenger seat. You want to show him what 600 horsepower can do. Floor the accelerator from rest, and the rear tires chirp. Heads are flung back. ESP immediately kicks in and retards power. Heads fling forward.
ESP gradually lets power back in, pushing you and your buddy firmly against your seatbacks. Then, boost hits. Oh My God does boost hit. The rear tires turn to smoke. Small children become sucked into the intake. Your necks snap as your heads are thrown against the (thankfully soft) headrest. Tire Shredding Bliss. For about a half second.
ESP intervenes, cuts power, and forces a short-shift into second gear. The shift happens so fast that the fan belt squeals. Loudly. Heads fly forward again. Your friend thinks you have a twitchy right foot and your just grenaded its motor.
After the shift, you're off-boost and at low rpms. Not much happens for a second. Your friend looks at you, and just as he's about to open his mouth to ask why you let go of the gas pedal (which, of course, is still firmly buried in the carpet), WHAM, boost hits again. His head smacks off the head rest again. Oh, but wait, the S65 AMG breaks traction again, so ESP cuts power for a second, then regains its trust of the tires and lets full boost back on.
From the chiropractor's office waiting room, your friend calls to tell you that your car is stupidly fast and sounds amazing. But it obviously can't handle all the power.
Meanwhile, across town, someone is fantasizing about the forthcoming S63 AMG. In his head, he is giving a demonstration to his friend. The normally aspirated V-8 screams to its 7000-plus rpm redline in every gear, torque swelling with revs. It sounds amazing, feels amazing, and ESP kicks in only once - at the launch in first gear. His friend, though doesn't have to pony up the $20 co-pay for the whiplash-induced chiropractor visit.
Here's what the S65's power band looks like. No, the torque and horsepower labels are not reversed - blue is torque, red is power. We had to reconstruct the curve manually because we couldn't get a reliable rpm signal from the engine, but the numbers are what they are.
I'm not a fan of huge numbers for the sake of huge numbers, but unfortunately that's what the S65 is. Me? I'd take an S550 or an S63 any day.
Automobile Magazine puts the big twin-turbo V-12 on the dyno. The dyno melted.
For a cool $183,000 (NOV 2006) you, too can have the most delightfully overpowered S-Class in the world - the S65 AMG. It has a 6.0-liter, twin-turbocharged 36-valve V-12 that makes, according to Mercedes, 604 hp @ 4800rpm and (are you sitting?) 738 lb-ft of torque in a plateau between 2000 and 4000 rpm. Holy (@#$*&.
Okay, stop hyperventilating. Yeah, it lays rubber all the way to 60 mph (and beyond, if you're not careful). But if you ignore the fact that those numbers are so high, you'll see something interesting - a horsepower peak at 4800 rpm? That's unusually low.
Even GM's technology-from-1882 3.8-liter pushrod V-6 makes its peak at a higher rpm - 5200. What this means is that, powerful as AMG's V-12 is, it doesn't rev very high.
Mercedes quotes the V-12's peak torque from as low as 2000 rpm, but therein lies a problem. This motor makes so much power that even in fourth gear, it spun the dyno up so quickly that it didn't make full boost until 4000 rpm. Real life is no different - the S65 feels like it has the world's most narrow power band. It's either ON (with the largest capital letters you can imagine), or off.
I'm not a huge fan of this engine for a few reasons. Firstly, it has that narrow power band. Secondly, it has enormous turbo lag. And mostly, the car can't handle it. A big Mercedes sedan costing practically as much as 10 Honda Civics should be fluid, smooth, and fast. On the highway, the S65 is obscenely capable, fast, refined, and wonderful. It is, in my book and without question, the best Autobahn car in the world.
Unfortunately, off the line, and at speeds legal in the US, it's a lumbering fool.
Picture this: You just dropped $200k on an S65 and get your best buddy in the passenger seat. You want to show him what 600 horsepower can do. Floor the accelerator from rest, and the rear tires chirp. Heads are flung back. ESP immediately kicks in and retards power. Heads fling forward.
ESP gradually lets power back in, pushing you and your buddy firmly against your seatbacks. Then, boost hits. Oh My God does boost hit. The rear tires turn to smoke. Small children become sucked into the intake. Your necks snap as your heads are thrown against the (thankfully soft) headrest. Tire Shredding Bliss. For about a half second.
ESP intervenes, cuts power, and forces a short-shift into second gear. The shift happens so fast that the fan belt squeals. Loudly. Heads fly forward again. Your friend thinks you have a twitchy right foot and your just grenaded its motor.
After the shift, you're off-boost and at low rpms. Not much happens for a second. Your friend looks at you, and just as he's about to open his mouth to ask why you let go of the gas pedal (which, of course, is still firmly buried in the carpet), WHAM, boost hits again. His head smacks off the head rest again. Oh, but wait, the S65 AMG breaks traction again, so ESP cuts power for a second, then regains its trust of the tires and lets full boost back on.
From the chiropractor's office waiting room, your friend calls to tell you that your car is stupidly fast and sounds amazing. But it obviously can't handle all the power.
Meanwhile, across town, someone is fantasizing about the forthcoming S63 AMG. In his head, he is giving a demonstration to his friend. The normally aspirated V-8 screams to its 7000-plus rpm redline in every gear, torque swelling with revs. It sounds amazing, feels amazing, and ESP kicks in only once - at the launch in first gear. His friend, though doesn't have to pony up the $20 co-pay for the whiplash-induced chiropractor visit.
Here's what the S65's power band looks like. No, the torque and horsepower labels are not reversed - blue is torque, red is power. We had to reconstruct the curve manually because we couldn't get a reliable rpm signal from the engine, but the numbers are what they are.
I'm not a fan of huge numbers for the sake of huge numbers, but unfortunately that's what the S65 is. Me? I'd take an S550 or an S63 any day.
#328
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Facelifted Mercedes S-Class Coupe AMG Spied for First Time
Mercedes is working on a new CL which will be more appropriately named the S-Class Coupe when the new model is released.
These are some spy shots of the AMG version of the S-Class coupe looking mean is light-camouflaged black.
New features will include LED daytime headlights and, possibly, LED tail lamps too. A newly designed front bumper is also hinted in these photos and will sport a more aggressive look in this AMG version than on the standard S-Class coupe. The grill isn't as slanted as on the current CL and will now come split with a single chrome bar across it, giving more prominence to the Mercedes badge sitting in the middle.
AMG is also promising more power and less consumption from its new slew of engines. Doing so by focusing on better engine management as well as reducing consumption by lightening the weight of the car through the greater use of composite materials.
Mercedes is working on a new CL which will be more appropriately named the S-Class Coupe when the new model is released.
These are some spy shots of the AMG version of the S-Class coupe looking mean is light-camouflaged black.
New features will include LED daytime headlights and, possibly, LED tail lamps too. A newly designed front bumper is also hinted in these photos and will sport a more aggressive look in this AMG version than on the standard S-Class coupe. The grill isn't as slanted as on the current CL and will now come split with a single chrome bar across it, giving more prominence to the Mercedes badge sitting in the middle.
AMG is also promising more power and less consumption from its new slew of engines. Doing so by focusing on better engine management as well as reducing consumption by lightening the weight of the car through the greater use of composite materials.
#329
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG: Big, Fast - and Pointless
Super-powered luxury car recipe takes out some of the cream, adds hot sauce.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer
PHOENIXVILLE, Penn. (CNNMoney.com) -- Some people, no matter how much they have, want to be sure they have more than everyone else.
If you're one of those people, the high-priced Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG is the car for you - though you may regret your obsession with rushing to the top.
The Mercedes-Benz S-class, the basis for the S65, is a superb luxury automobile. It's big, roomy, smooth and quiet.
Like all luxury cars these days, all the S-class models have more on-board computer technology than a nuclear submarine.
You can see at night using infrared light and high-intensity headlights that turn to follow curves in the road.
The heated, cooled, massaging seats (front and back) are adjustable in ways you could never have imagined.
The cruise control keeps up with traffic, maintaining a safe following distance even when traffic comes to a full stop. It takes time to develop trust in the system, but once you do, all you have to do is steer (and be ready to take over in a real emergency.)
In regular, non-AMG, S-class sedans the steering is appropriately easy, with just enough sense of the road to lend a feeling of control.
Standard S-class sedans do all that wonderfully well. Who could ask for more? And why?
The lilly, gilded
While any S-class has more than ample power, in the S65 you get a massive 6.0-liter twin-turbocharged V-12 producing, at top wail, 604 horsepower. The wheels are 20 inches in diameter, wrapped in thin-walled performance tires.
The price: $192,000 for the car I tested, including a gas-guzzler tax and the few comfort items that aren't already standard equipment. (The only thing not available in this version is the rear-seat DVD player.)
The S65's estimated zero-to-sixty acceleration time of 4.2 seconds is impressive. What's even more impressive is the violent punch you get by mashing down the gas pedal while at any speed in between.
The brakes, featuring front discs that look as if they could be sliced to serve eight, do a fine job of bringing the S65 to a quick, controlled stop.
This is a big car, though. Trying to make it into a sports sedan is a futile effort. True, it feels well controlled in turns. The automatically adjusting suspension stiffens up under pressure so there's surprisingly little body lean.
But, beyond goosing the gas pedal, is it fun to drive?
No, not really.
It packs a punch, but at such a cost. It's not just the $40,000 between this and the V-12-powered S600, or even the $90,000 between this and the V-8-powered S550.
It's as if someone drank a third of your bottle of Courvoisier and filled it back up with Night Train. The S65 is brimming with raw power, but the modifications make it feel, ultimately, more ordinary to drive than the car on which it's based.
With its heavy and wide wheels and tires, and the power steering cranked up to compensate, the S65's steering is flighty and numb at low speeds.
As speed increases, and the power steering boost is ratcheted down, steering feel is much better. But you feel bumps and, over rough pavement, you hear the sizzle of rubber over asphalt and the "whap" of expansion joints. In the S-class's opulent cabin, the noise is grating and out of place.
The S65 doesn't have the advanced seven-speed transmission you get in other S-class cars, either. With 738 foot-pounds of torque, the S65's engine would make cogmeat salad out of that fancy machinery.
So it comes with a 5-speed transmission. Again, feeling shifts from an automatic transmission is nothing unusual. But when those shifts are virtually imperceptible in versions costing tens of thousands less, you begin wondering just what it is you're paying for.
These admittedly quibbling flaws could be called "the price you pay" - over and above the actual price you pay - for added performance.
But the point of paying for outlandish horsepower is to take it out and play with it. A vehicle of the S-class's size and character simply defies rowdiness.
Not that "fun to drive" necessarily requires two seats. Mercedes even makes an AMG-tuned E-class station wagon, complete with rear-facing third-row seats, that's a hoot-and-a-half.
But if you can afford the $190,000 S65 AMG, you can afford more than one car.
I'd suggest the S550 and, perhaps, a Porsche 911 Carrera S. That way you get your luxury and your performance in nice individual wrappers.
Very few are fortunate to even be able to consider the S65 AMG. But there's a lesson here for everyone. More power doesn't always mean more enjoyment.
Super-powered luxury car recipe takes out some of the cream, adds hot sauce.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer
PHOENIXVILLE, Penn. (CNNMoney.com) -- Some people, no matter how much they have, want to be sure they have more than everyone else.
If you're one of those people, the high-priced Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG is the car for you - though you may regret your obsession with rushing to the top.
The Mercedes-Benz S-class, the basis for the S65, is a superb luxury automobile. It's big, roomy, smooth and quiet.
Like all luxury cars these days, all the S-class models have more on-board computer technology than a nuclear submarine.
You can see at night using infrared light and high-intensity headlights that turn to follow curves in the road.
The heated, cooled, massaging seats (front and back) are adjustable in ways you could never have imagined.
The cruise control keeps up with traffic, maintaining a safe following distance even when traffic comes to a full stop. It takes time to develop trust in the system, but once you do, all you have to do is steer (and be ready to take over in a real emergency.)
In regular, non-AMG, S-class sedans the steering is appropriately easy, with just enough sense of the road to lend a feeling of control.
Standard S-class sedans do all that wonderfully well. Who could ask for more? And why?
The lilly, gilded
While any S-class has more than ample power, in the S65 you get a massive 6.0-liter twin-turbocharged V-12 producing, at top wail, 604 horsepower. The wheels are 20 inches in diameter, wrapped in thin-walled performance tires.
The price: $192,000 for the car I tested, including a gas-guzzler tax and the few comfort items that aren't already standard equipment. (The only thing not available in this version is the rear-seat DVD player.)
The S65's estimated zero-to-sixty acceleration time of 4.2 seconds is impressive. What's even more impressive is the violent punch you get by mashing down the gas pedal while at any speed in between.
The brakes, featuring front discs that look as if they could be sliced to serve eight, do a fine job of bringing the S65 to a quick, controlled stop.
This is a big car, though. Trying to make it into a sports sedan is a futile effort. True, it feels well controlled in turns. The automatically adjusting suspension stiffens up under pressure so there's surprisingly little body lean.
But, beyond goosing the gas pedal, is it fun to drive?
No, not really.
It packs a punch, but at such a cost. It's not just the $40,000 between this and the V-12-powered S600, or even the $90,000 between this and the V-8-powered S550.
It's as if someone drank a third of your bottle of Courvoisier and filled it back up with Night Train. The S65 is brimming with raw power, but the modifications make it feel, ultimately, more ordinary to drive than the car on which it's based.
With its heavy and wide wheels and tires, and the power steering cranked up to compensate, the S65's steering is flighty and numb at low speeds.
As speed increases, and the power steering boost is ratcheted down, steering feel is much better. But you feel bumps and, over rough pavement, you hear the sizzle of rubber over asphalt and the "whap" of expansion joints. In the S-class's opulent cabin, the noise is grating and out of place.
The S65 doesn't have the advanced seven-speed transmission you get in other S-class cars, either. With 738 foot-pounds of torque, the S65's engine would make cogmeat salad out of that fancy machinery.
So it comes with a 5-speed transmission. Again, feeling shifts from an automatic transmission is nothing unusual. But when those shifts are virtually imperceptible in versions costing tens of thousands less, you begin wondering just what it is you're paying for.
These admittedly quibbling flaws could be called "the price you pay" - over and above the actual price you pay - for added performance.
But the point of paying for outlandish horsepower is to take it out and play with it. A vehicle of the S-class's size and character simply defies rowdiness.
Not that "fun to drive" necessarily requires two seats. Mercedes even makes an AMG-tuned E-class station wagon, complete with rear-facing third-row seats, that's a hoot-and-a-half.
But if you can afford the $190,000 S65 AMG, you can afford more than one car.
I'd suggest the S550 and, perhaps, a Porsche 911 Carrera S. That way you get your luxury and your performance in nice individual wrappers.
Very few are fortunate to even be able to consider the S65 AMG. But there's a lesson here for everyone. More power doesn't always mean more enjoyment.
#330
Who writes this stuff? I can't see how anyone could write anything negative about the most sophisticated, most well thought out automobile in history. There is NO car out there better than the W221. The S65 is the ultimate in automobile. Own one and you would understand. I don't even own one and I understand.
This article makes me even more sick of the idea that Mercedes is thinking of abolishing the V12. If the M175 is ceased in production, I seriously have no idea what my next vehicle will be.
This article makes me even more sick of the idea that Mercedes is thinking of abolishing the V12. If the M175 is ceased in production, I seriously have no idea what my next vehicle will be.
#331
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Who writes this stuff? I can't see how anyone could write anything negative about the most sophisticated, most well thought out automobile in history. There is NO car out there better than the W221. The S65 is the ultimate in automobile. Own one and you would understand. I don't even own one and I understand.
This article makes me even more sick of the idea that Mercedes is thinking of abolishing the V12. If the M175 is ceased in production, I seriously have no idea what my next vehicle will be.
This article makes me even more sick of the idea that Mercedes is thinking of abolishing the V12. If the M175 is ceased in production, I seriously have no idea what my next vehicle will be.
#332
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Maui, Hawaii
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CLS63, GLK350
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"It packs a punch, but at such a cost. It's not just the $40,000 between this and the V-12-powered S600, or even the $90,000 between this and the V-8-powered S550."
"But if you can afford the $190,000 S65 AMG, you can afford more than one car."
#333
MBWorld Fanatic!
Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG Dyno Results
Automobile Magazine puts the big twin-turbo V-12 on the dyno. The dyno melted.
...
Unfortunately, off the line, and at speeds legal in the US, it's a lumbering fool.
Picture this: You just dropped $200k on an S65 and get your best buddy in the passenger seat. You want to show him what 600 horsepower can do. Floor the accelerator from rest, and the rear tires chirp. Heads are flung back. ESP immediately kicks in and retards power. Heads fling forward.
ESP gradually lets power back in, pushing you and your buddy firmly against your seatbacks. Then, boost hits. Oh My God does boost hit. The rear tires turn to smoke. Small children become sucked into the intake. Your necks snap as your heads are thrown against the (thankfully soft) headrest. Tire Shredding Bliss. For about a half second.
ESP intervenes, cuts power, and forces a short-shift into second gear. The shift happens so fast that the fan belt squeals. Loudly. Heads fly forward again. Your friend thinks you have a twitchy right foot and your just grenaded its motor.
After the shift, you're off-boost and at low rpms. Not much happens for a second. Your friend looks at you, and just as he's about to open his mouth to ask why you let go of the gas pedal (which, of course, is still firmly buried in the carpet), WHAM, boost hits again. His head smacks off the head rest again. Oh, but wait, the S65 AMG breaks traction again, so ESP cuts power for a second, then regains its trust of the tires and lets full boost back on.
Automobile Magazine puts the big twin-turbo V-12 on the dyno. The dyno melted.
...
Unfortunately, off the line, and at speeds legal in the US, it's a lumbering fool.
Picture this: You just dropped $200k on an S65 and get your best buddy in the passenger seat. You want to show him what 600 horsepower can do. Floor the accelerator from rest, and the rear tires chirp. Heads are flung back. ESP immediately kicks in and retards power. Heads fling forward.
ESP gradually lets power back in, pushing you and your buddy firmly against your seatbacks. Then, boost hits. Oh My God does boost hit. The rear tires turn to smoke. Small children become sucked into the intake. Your necks snap as your heads are thrown against the (thankfully soft) headrest. Tire Shredding Bliss. For about a half second.
ESP intervenes, cuts power, and forces a short-shift into second gear. The shift happens so fast that the fan belt squeals. Loudly. Heads fly forward again. Your friend thinks you have a twitchy right foot and your just grenaded its motor.
After the shift, you're off-boost and at low rpms. Not much happens for a second. Your friend looks at you, and just as he's about to open his mouth to ask why you let go of the gas pedal (which, of course, is still firmly buried in the carpet), WHAM, boost hits again. His head smacks off the head rest again. Oh, but wait, the S65 AMG breaks traction again, so ESP cuts power for a second, then regains its trust of the tires and lets full boost back on.
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Obviously, this writer is as inept as ... our President.
They think, when they write to Automobile mag, automatically makes them car industry experts.
Same as, "doing it" in missionary position, doesn't me anybody a missionary.
No wonder car mag subscriptions are dropping like a rock.
Here is the link how to properly launch a 65
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUnE5...eature=related
BTW, don't try this at home
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Last edited by Red Marko; 02-20-2009 at 01:28 PM.
#334
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'05 BMW 545i, '09 E350 4Matic
I dunno why an individual's review of a car can so upset other folks? The guy drove the car, made some points which are subjective in nature and summarized his opinions.
That's why you test drive before buying. You sit in the car, feel it, drive it, and make a decision whether the car is for you or not. Not complicated, IMO.
That's why you test drive before buying. You sit in the car, feel it, drive it, and make a decision whether the car is for you or not. Not complicated, IMO.
#335
Senior Member
Thread Starter
2010 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Facelift Spied in Parking Garage
A special shout out for WCF reader Tobias, who sent in these brilliant pics of the Mercedes S-Class facelift. He spotted the Mercedes-Benz S400 Bluehybrid at rest in a parking garage in Germany.
New side-view mirrors have a more squared off shape than the current model. This matches the new, squared front bumper which distinguishes the car a bit more from other sedans. A larger air intake is flanked on both sides by new recessed fog lights. As we previoulsy mentioned, this car has a new graphic covering the headlights, with daytime-running LEDs added on. Headlights keep the same basic shape, as does the hood. However, the hoods lines are more steep and defining.
This car is also riding on bold, seven-spoke wheels that we don't remember seeing previously. At the back, we see the dual exhaust more integrated into the rear bumper. Taillights are improved by the addition of LEDs.
We're not sure how long we have to wait for the official debut of the facelifted Mercedes-Benz S-Class, but we hope to see it at Geneva. The new lineup should come to market soon as a 2010 model year car.
A special shout out for WCF reader Tobias, who sent in these brilliant pics of the Mercedes S-Class facelift. He spotted the Mercedes-Benz S400 Bluehybrid at rest in a parking garage in Germany.
New side-view mirrors have a more squared off shape than the current model. This matches the new, squared front bumper which distinguishes the car a bit more from other sedans. A larger air intake is flanked on both sides by new recessed fog lights. As we previoulsy mentioned, this car has a new graphic covering the headlights, with daytime-running LEDs added on. Headlights keep the same basic shape, as does the hood. However, the hoods lines are more steep and defining.
This car is also riding on bold, seven-spoke wheels that we don't remember seeing previously. At the back, we see the dual exhaust more integrated into the rear bumper. Taillights are improved by the addition of LEDs.
We're not sure how long we have to wait for the official debut of the facelifted Mercedes-Benz S-Class, but we hope to see it at Geneva. The new lineup should come to market soon as a 2010 model year car.
#336
MBWorld Fanatic!
I dunno why an individual's review of a car can so upset other folks? The guy drove the car, made some points which are subjective in nature and summarized his opinions.
That's why you test drive before buying. You sit in the car, feel it, drive it, and make a decision whether the car is for you or not. Not complicated, IMO.
That's why you test drive before buying. You sit in the car, feel it, drive it, and make a decision whether the car is for you or not. Not complicated, IMO.
If he (the reviewer) is an individual standing alone in the park somewhere, on the bench, shouting his opinions, fine. But as a responsible Auto mag guy, copies being read by thousands, not knowing how to launch a car, obviously too powerfull for him to handle, that's moronic. My 6 y.o. son could floor it with the same results. You don't floor it, you "taste" the accelerator. The same way, you don't gobble a whole bottle of great Cognac at once, you taste/measure the sip.
Well... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'm hard pressed to not to call the reviewer an idoit... oops I just did.
![devil](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif)
#337
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes-Benz Recalls Faulty S-Class Autos
Mercedes-Benz China will recall about 555 imported S-Class sedans in China because of a problem with their shock absorbers.
Mercedes-Benz China submitted a report to AQSIQ, saying that from February 18, 2009, it would recall S-Class sedans which were produced before August 15, 2006 because the front shock absorber of those sedans may fail to operate because of manufacturing flaws and this could lead to steering problems. About 555 of these cars had been sold in China.
Mercedes-Benz and its authorized dealers reportedly will check and replace the faulty shock absorbers free of charge.
Mercedes-Benz China will recall about 555 imported S-Class sedans in China because of a problem with their shock absorbers.
Mercedes-Benz China submitted a report to AQSIQ, saying that from February 18, 2009, it would recall S-Class sedans which were produced before August 15, 2006 because the front shock absorber of those sedans may fail to operate because of manufacturing flaws and this could lead to steering problems. About 555 of these cars had been sold in China.
Mercedes-Benz and its authorized dealers reportedly will check and replace the faulty shock absorbers free of charge.
#338
MBWorld Fanatic!
Trumpet, will be pleased to hear that on last wk's AMG Private Lounge chat w/AMG US mgmt, they had indicated that V12 motor isn't leaving anytime soon
I had suspected same...and am encouraged that they are actually refining 65 motor (in 65Blk and Maybach Zeppelin)....would guess '10 65s will be further refined/debugged
Markopolo, well put
Cars like 65s are all about an intriguing blend of brute force/hp/tq and dynamic/aural/aesthetic nuances, all in a bank vault-like, super-tech car.....much like enjoying a fine Bordeaux in relative safety of one's own home
Need to really drive these 65s back-to-back vs other new F/P on interesting roads to fully appreciate how brilliant these 65s are on both wkends in twisties...and on one's daily commute to office
Market speaks for itself....know many car guys who can afford any car on planet....most drive new AMG CL/S/SL both for daily commute...and wkend pleasure drives
I had suspected same...and am encouraged that they are actually refining 65 motor (in 65Blk and Maybach Zeppelin)....would guess '10 65s will be further refined/debugged
Markopolo, well put
Cars like 65s are all about an intriguing blend of brute force/hp/tq and dynamic/aural/aesthetic nuances, all in a bank vault-like, super-tech car.....much like enjoying a fine Bordeaux in relative safety of one's own home
Need to really drive these 65s back-to-back vs other new F/P on interesting roads to fully appreciate how brilliant these 65s are on both wkends in twisties...and on one's daily commute to office
Market speaks for itself....know many car guys who can afford any car on planet....most drive new AMG CL/S/SL both for daily commute...and wkend pleasure drives
#339
Trumpet, will be pleased to hear that on last wk's AMG Private Lounge chat w/AMG US mgmt, they had indicated that V12 motor isn't leaving anytime soon
I had suspected same...and am encouraged that they are actually refining 65 motor (in 65Blk and Maybach Zeppelin)....would guess '10 65s will be further refined/debugged
Markopolo, well put
Cars like 65s are all about an intriguing blend of brute force/hp/tq and dynamic/aural/aesthetic nuances, all in a bank vault-like, super-tech car.....much like enjoying a fine Bordeaux in relative safety of one's own home
Need to really drive these 65s back-to-back vs other new F/P on interesting roads to fully appreciate how brilliant these 65s are on both wkends in twisties...and on one's daily commute to office
Market speaks for itself....know many car guys who can afford any car on planet....most drive new AMG CL/S/SL both for daily commute...and wkend pleasure drives
I had suspected same...and am encouraged that they are actually refining 65 motor (in 65Blk and Maybach Zeppelin)....would guess '10 65s will be further refined/debugged
Markopolo, well put
Cars like 65s are all about an intriguing blend of brute force/hp/tq and dynamic/aural/aesthetic nuances, all in a bank vault-like, super-tech car.....much like enjoying a fine Bordeaux in relative safety of one's own home
Need to really drive these 65s back-to-back vs other new F/P on interesting roads to fully appreciate how brilliant these 65s are on both wkends in twisties...and on one's daily commute to office
Market speaks for itself....know many car guys who can afford any car on planet....most drive new AMG CL/S/SL both for daily commute...and wkend pleasure drives
YES!!!!!! Thanks for the fabulous news VK!!
#340
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Bay Area, CA
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2013 SL 550 (Previously 2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo-S, 2015 Tesla P85D, 2007 S600, 2005 E55 AMG)
Seems no reason why MB cannot continue with the existing generation V12 - all the R+D costs are sunk so they just have to keep the existing line going. WSH comments suggest a continual tweaking of the existing design rather than a new generation (the rumored cancelled M295?) V12.
Nothing wrong with that of course. Unless MB can deliver massive increases in fuel efficiency or make a substantially lighter V12, it seems hard to improve on the existing design which certainly has untapped reserves.
At least this seems one positive step back to rationality and not a surrender to the politically correct eco-maniacs.
Chris
Nothing wrong with that of course. Unless MB can deliver massive increases in fuel efficiency or make a substantially lighter V12, it seems hard to improve on the existing design which certainly has untapped reserves.
At least this seems one positive step back to rationality and not a surrender to the politically correct eco-maniacs.
Chris
#341
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'05 BMW 545i, '09 E350 4Matic
You see, the problems I have...
If he (the reviewer) is an individual standing alone in the park somewhere, on the bench, shouting his opinions, fine. But as a responsible Auto mag guy, copies being read by thousands, not knowing how to launch a car, obviously too powerfull for him to handle, that's moronic. My 6 y.o. son could floor it with the same results. You don't floor it, you "taste" the accelerator. The same way, you don't gobble a whole bottle of great Cognac at once, you taste/measure the sip.
Well... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'm hard pressed to not to call the reviewer an idoit... oops I just did.![devil](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif)
If he (the reviewer) is an individual standing alone in the park somewhere, on the bench, shouting his opinions, fine. But as a responsible Auto mag guy, copies being read by thousands, not knowing how to launch a car, obviously too powerfull for him to handle, that's moronic. My 6 y.o. son could floor it with the same results. You don't floor it, you "taste" the accelerator. The same way, you don't gobble a whole bottle of great Cognac at once, you taste/measure the sip.
Well... I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I'm hard pressed to not to call the reviewer an idoit... oops I just did.
![devil](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif)
There are some objective facts which are irrefutable. Then there are subjective 'opinions' which, proverbially, are like 'a&^%$@!s' and everyone has one. Which is why we didn't like the S550 (numb) and E550 (didn't feel right) and settled on a E350 when we bought as the Mrs. car. Doesn't make these cars bad...not by any stretch of imagination...its just that we bought what she liked the most. And price had no bearing on the decision.
Yes, reviewers are usually what you called them. Heck, they complained about the I-Drive (no flames, please) on my 5er. My (then) 9-yr old daughter mastered it during the pre-delivery rundown just watching the sales associate from the back seat. So there!!!
#342
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes Math: S500 + CL500 = CS500
Saudi tuner shops get many requests. While we may ask for bodyside moldings and a little something extra under the hood, Saudis are just as likely to electroplate a precious metal onto their luxury rides. Since luxury vehicles seem to grow on trees in the world's oil capitol, tuner MyCar is challenged with differentiating these high-end vehicles to make them stand out in a crowd.
MyCar created an all new Mercedes, the CS500. It's basically a gold S500 with the front end of a CL500, but MyCar thought it unique enough to give it its own name; the CS500. As you can see from the photos, the CS500 looks good enough to trick the untrained eye into believing it's an all-new vehicle. Actually, the CL500 front end actually makes the S500 look a bit more stylish, if you ask us. Maybe someone in Stuttgart should take note.
Saudi tuner shops get many requests. While we may ask for bodyside moldings and a little something extra under the hood, Saudis are just as likely to electroplate a precious metal onto their luxury rides. Since luxury vehicles seem to grow on trees in the world's oil capitol, tuner MyCar is challenged with differentiating these high-end vehicles to make them stand out in a crowd.
MyCar created an all new Mercedes, the CS500. It's basically a gold S500 with the front end of a CL500, but MyCar thought it unique enough to give it its own name; the CS500. As you can see from the photos, the CS500 looks good enough to trick the untrained eye into believing it's an all-new vehicle. Actually, the CL500 front end actually makes the S500 look a bit more stylish, if you ask us. Maybe someone in Stuttgart should take note.
#343
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG
Base price est.: $194,800
HP: 604 @ 4,800 – 5,100
Torque: 738 lb-ft @ 2,000 – 4,000
0 – 60 mph: 4.2 seconds
Ľ mile: 12.6 seconds
So… is there really any reason for spending what is undoubtedly over $200,000, by the time you drive off the lot, on a four-door sedan? Well if you have the means, why not buy the most extravagant combination of luxury and speed?
This monstrous AMG-built, SOHC 36-valve, bi-turbo V-12 specimen is by far, the finest driving machine on the road today (or at least four-door driving machine!). Most of us will never be fortunate enough to own a car of this caliber, but that shouldn’t stop us from picturing ourselves behind the wheel.
Can you imagine… opening the driver’s door for the first time, climbing in, adjusting the seat then firmly gripping the steering wheel with both hands? Insert Mercedes’ SmartKey into the ignition and start the vehicle. Do you hear that? Of course not, the motor is running and not a whisper out of it. Shift into gear, pull-out of the parking lot and gently accelerate through the first gear; only to be soothed by the gentle purr of twelve cylinders working in sync.
Joe Oldham recently wrote about his experience driving a 2007 S65, here is what he had to say: “Speaking of torque, we must say there is something supremely entertaining about doing a brake rev burnout in a $190,000 car where you smoke the tires through 1st gear, hit the shift button and smoke them again halfway through 2nd. That’s with the electronic stability program switched off. With it on, we once floored it away from a light. The car had full traction off the line, but then as all that torque came on at 2,000 rpm, the engine actually overcame the ESP and broke the tires loose at the top of 1st gear.”
Base price est.: $194,800
HP: 604 @ 4,800 – 5,100
Torque: 738 lb-ft @ 2,000 – 4,000
0 – 60 mph: 4.2 seconds
Ľ mile: 12.6 seconds
So… is there really any reason for spending what is undoubtedly over $200,000, by the time you drive off the lot, on a four-door sedan? Well if you have the means, why not buy the most extravagant combination of luxury and speed?
This monstrous AMG-built, SOHC 36-valve, bi-turbo V-12 specimen is by far, the finest driving machine on the road today (or at least four-door driving machine!). Most of us will never be fortunate enough to own a car of this caliber, but that shouldn’t stop us from picturing ourselves behind the wheel.
Can you imagine… opening the driver’s door for the first time, climbing in, adjusting the seat then firmly gripping the steering wheel with both hands? Insert Mercedes’ SmartKey into the ignition and start the vehicle. Do you hear that? Of course not, the motor is running and not a whisper out of it. Shift into gear, pull-out of the parking lot and gently accelerate through the first gear; only to be soothed by the gentle purr of twelve cylinders working in sync.
Joe Oldham recently wrote about his experience driving a 2007 S65, here is what he had to say: “Speaking of torque, we must say there is something supremely entertaining about doing a brake rev burnout in a $190,000 car where you smoke the tires through 1st gear, hit the shift button and smoke them again halfway through 2nd. That’s with the electronic stability program switched off. With it on, we once floored it away from a light. The car had full traction off the line, but then as all that torque came on at 2,000 rpm, the engine actually overcame the ESP and broke the tires loose at the top of 1st gear.”
#344
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Feb 2009: Mercedes-Benz S550 Sedan Lease and S550 4Matic Sedan Lease Offer
For February 2009, Mercedes-Benz has special lease offers on select 2009 S-Class models. These lease offers are with approved credit from Mercedes-Benz Financial and not everyone will qualify. For more details go to www.mbusa.com . Leases with more/less miles per year and more/less months (term) are also available, and the monthly lease payment will vary accordingly.
For February 2009, Mercedes-Benz has special lease offers on select 2009 S-Class models. These lease offers are with approved credit from Mercedes-Benz Financial and not everyone will qualify. For more details go to www.mbusa.com . Leases with more/less miles per year and more/less months (term) are also available, and the monthly lease payment will vary accordingly.
#345
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes-Benz to Dabble in Portable Navigation Devices
The Mercedes-Benz luxury brand of automobiles is attempting to “streamline costs and draw in buyers” by introducing navigation devices that can be used both inside the vehicle and outside. Harman International and TomTom GPS will be supplying the devices that will be available on eight Mercedes-Benz models beginning in 2010. The multi-use navigation devices can attach to the dashboard of the Mercedes vehicles and then detached for going somewhere without the car.
“The major benefit is that carmakers will now have an affordable GPS and infotainment system that can be used by the millions of vehicle owners around the world that don’t own the more expensive in-dash units,” said an article by Motor Authority. According to Gearlog, these devices will be “a first step toward navigation modules that can be developed and certified on quicker schedules, then be mated to the cars on the assembly line or even at the dealership.”
The new GPS devices could “close the competition gap” between the current in-dash devices and portable devices. Automakers will appreciate the new technology because they have typically been about three years behind the portable GPS device technology which manufacturers can produce for a fraction of the price.
The Mercedes-Benz luxury brand of automobiles is attempting to “streamline costs and draw in buyers” by introducing navigation devices that can be used both inside the vehicle and outside. Harman International and TomTom GPS will be supplying the devices that will be available on eight Mercedes-Benz models beginning in 2010. The multi-use navigation devices can attach to the dashboard of the Mercedes vehicles and then detached for going somewhere without the car.
“The major benefit is that carmakers will now have an affordable GPS and infotainment system that can be used by the millions of vehicle owners around the world that don’t own the more expensive in-dash units,” said an article by Motor Authority. According to Gearlog, these devices will be “a first step toward navigation modules that can be developed and certified on quicker schedules, then be mated to the cars on the assembly line or even at the dealership.”
The new GPS devices could “close the competition gap” between the current in-dash devices and portable devices. Automakers will appreciate the new technology because they have typically been about three years behind the portable GPS device technology which manufacturers can produce for a fraction of the price.
#347
Senior Member
Thread Starter
PPG Paint Approved for Mercedes-Benz Autos
The next time you take your Mercedes-Benz certified used car into the shop for some paint work, you’re likely going to get PPG-brand paint. Daimler AG, the parent company that manufactures Mercedes-Benz, recently approved the paint company’s Global Refinish System and Envirobase High Performance product for repairing MB cars in North America.
The decision by Daimler AG was not made lightly. In fact, representatives from Mercedes-Benz conducted a rigorous four-day audit of the PPG facilities in both the United States and Germany. Michael Gimpl, the Manager of Daimler AG Global Service and Parts, had this to say about the decision: “We are pleased to continue the collaboration with PG in aftermarket sales as we are convinced of their premium product quality as well as their worldwide service capabilities that add value to our network.”
Representatives visited facilities in Delaware, Pittsburgh, Ohio and Ingersheim, Germany before giving their final approval. They wanted to make sure the operations and products met the high quality standards that their customers are accustomed to with Mercedes-Benz. “One of Mercedes-Benz’s highest priorities is customer satisfaction,” said Kevin Loop, PPG business development manager. “To ensure they attain that goal, they require their partners to design, manufacture and deliver high quality products.”
Keep this in mind when you take your certified Mercedes vehicles in for paint repair. With PPG and MB, you know you’ll be getting the best quality in each respective industry.
The next time you take your Mercedes-Benz certified used car into the shop for some paint work, you’re likely going to get PPG-brand paint. Daimler AG, the parent company that manufactures Mercedes-Benz, recently approved the paint company’s Global Refinish System and Envirobase High Performance product for repairing MB cars in North America.
The decision by Daimler AG was not made lightly. In fact, representatives from Mercedes-Benz conducted a rigorous four-day audit of the PPG facilities in both the United States and Germany. Michael Gimpl, the Manager of Daimler AG Global Service and Parts, had this to say about the decision: “We are pleased to continue the collaboration with PG in aftermarket sales as we are convinced of their premium product quality as well as their worldwide service capabilities that add value to our network.”
Representatives visited facilities in Delaware, Pittsburgh, Ohio and Ingersheim, Germany before giving their final approval. They wanted to make sure the operations and products met the high quality standards that their customers are accustomed to with Mercedes-Benz. “One of Mercedes-Benz’s highest priorities is customer satisfaction,” said Kevin Loop, PPG business development manager. “To ensure they attain that goal, they require their partners to design, manufacture and deliver high quality products.”
Keep this in mind when you take your certified Mercedes vehicles in for paint repair. With PPG and MB, you know you’ll be getting the best quality in each respective industry.
#348
PPG Paint Approved for Mercedes-Benz Autos
The next time you take your Mercedes-Benz certified used car into the shop for some paint work, you’re likely going to get PPG-brand paint. Daimler AG, the parent company that manufactures Mercedes-Benz, recently approved the paint company’s Global Refinish System and Envirobase High Performance product for repairing MB cars in North America.
The decision by Daimler AG was not made lightly. In fact, representatives from Mercedes-Benz conducted a rigorous four-day audit of the PPG facilities in both the United States and Germany. Michael Gimpl, the Manager of Daimler AG Global Service and Parts, had this to say about the decision: “We are pleased to continue the collaboration with PG in aftermarket sales as we are convinced of their premium product quality as well as their worldwide service capabilities that add value to our network.”
Representatives visited facilities in Delaware, Pittsburgh, Ohio and Ingersheim, Germany before giving their final approval. They wanted to make sure the operations and products met the high quality standards that their customers are accustomed to with Mercedes-Benz. “One of Mercedes-Benz’s highest priorities is customer satisfaction,” said Kevin Loop, PPG business development manager. “To ensure they attain that goal, they require their partners to design, manufacture and deliver high quality products.”
Keep this in mind when you take your certified Mercedes vehicles in for paint repair. With PPG and MB, you know you’ll be getting the best quality in each respective industry.
The next time you take your Mercedes-Benz certified used car into the shop for some paint work, you’re likely going to get PPG-brand paint. Daimler AG, the parent company that manufactures Mercedes-Benz, recently approved the paint company’s Global Refinish System and Envirobase High Performance product for repairing MB cars in North America.
The decision by Daimler AG was not made lightly. In fact, representatives from Mercedes-Benz conducted a rigorous four-day audit of the PPG facilities in both the United States and Germany. Michael Gimpl, the Manager of Daimler AG Global Service and Parts, had this to say about the decision: “We are pleased to continue the collaboration with PG in aftermarket sales as we are convinced of their premium product quality as well as their worldwide service capabilities that add value to our network.”
Representatives visited facilities in Delaware, Pittsburgh, Ohio and Ingersheim, Germany before giving their final approval. They wanted to make sure the operations and products met the high quality standards that their customers are accustomed to with Mercedes-Benz. “One of Mercedes-Benz’s highest priorities is customer satisfaction,” said Kevin Loop, PPG business development manager. “To ensure they attain that goal, they require their partners to design, manufacture and deliver high quality products.”
Keep this in mind when you take your certified Mercedes vehicles in for paint repair. With PPG and MB, you know you’ll be getting the best quality in each respective industry.
#349
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Ten Reasons To Buy A Luxury Car
1. Safety
They aren't always safer (lightweight, superfast convertibles, being the obvious exception), but luxury cars tend to offer more safety features than their non-deluxe counterparts, which translates into better crash-test results. According to Consumer Reports, 71% of 2009 vehicles with standard stability control, traction control, anti-lock braking systems, side-front airbags and curtain airbags cost at least $30,000. Forty-four percent of the vehicles chosen as top safety picks by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety have an estimated base price of more than $30,000.
2. Value
Each year, Kelley Blue Book rates the cars with the best resale values for their class. For 2009, eight out of 15 segment winners came from a luxury brand or cost more than $30,000. Standouts include the distinctive and quick-selling Mini Cooper, which starts at $18,700 but is one of the most expensive options in the compact class and is made by luxury automaker BMW. Other winners were the high-performance $76,840 Nissan GT-R and $40,240 Cadillac CTS sedan.
3. Prestige
There's no denying it. Heads turn when an Audi R8, Jaguar XF or Aston Martin DB9 rolls into view. They get parked in the best positions at valet lots and announce your arrival into polite society--or at least the local country club.
4. Beauty and Comfort
In the annual quality study from J.D. Power and Associates, only two brands, Jaguar and Porsche, received perfect scores for design quality. Remote-start and cold-weather packages from the likes of BMW and Porsche include heated seats and ski bags to help owners hit the shops or the slopes in the most comfortable way possible.
5. Interior
Or queen, as the case may be. From straight-grained East Indian rosewood trim in the Rolls-Royce Phantom tungsten to thick lambswool rugs in the Bentley Continental GT, luxury cars take opulence to the next level. Even if the silver champagne flutes in the $451,250 Maybach 62 S are out of your range, $1,200 will get you a semi-aniline leather-trimmed interior with African bubinga wood interior trim in the 2009 Lexus LX SUV.
6. Technology
Historically, luxury cars have offered the latest and greatest safety features (anti-lock brakes, review cameras) and entertainment technology (in-headrest TV screens, Bluetooth) before these options trickle down to the masses. In this year's 2009 luxury models, you can get everything from remote starters, electronic parking aids and rain-sensing windshield wipers to a fully integrated iPod music interface.
7. Maintenance
Certified-pre-owned programs like the one at BMW offer comprehensive roadside assistance--and the assurance that only vehicles that meet BMW's stringent standards and pass its certification process receive the certified pre-owned title. Brand-new BMWs are well looked-after even before they become CPOs, says Jim McDonnell, president of BMW North America, because the German company awards free maintenance and roadside assistance for the first four years of ownership.
8. Style
Bugatti invites buyers to its Dorlisheim, France, factory so they can customize exterior paint colors, interior dashboard trim and interior monograms. New-car buyers at Porsche meet with a personal consultant to determine how to customize the vehicle. The 911, for instance, offers custom-painted air intake grilles and specialized aluminum or leather gear levers to colored ceramic brakes and fine wood trims like Makassar and sycamore.
9. Horsepower
When it comes to sheer power, luxury cars come with plenty--without even having to upgrade the engine. Out of 353 2009 models evaluated by Consumer Reports, only six of them had at least 300 horsepower and cost under $30,000. Fifty-two had at least 300 horses under their belt and cost more than $30,000. Leading them are BMW's M-line, with models that bring 400 to 500 horsepower.
10. Quality
Results from J.D. Power's Initial Quality Survey found that Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, Mercury, Porsche and Toyota are the brands with the highest overall quality for 2008. Four of those--Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes and Porsche--are premium brands. In individual categories, Infiniti and Lexus are the only brands with perfect scores for powertrain mechanical quality. BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Porsche are the only brands that received perfect scores for mechanical body and interior quality.
1. Safety
They aren't always safer (lightweight, superfast convertibles, being the obvious exception), but luxury cars tend to offer more safety features than their non-deluxe counterparts, which translates into better crash-test results. According to Consumer Reports, 71% of 2009 vehicles with standard stability control, traction control, anti-lock braking systems, side-front airbags and curtain airbags cost at least $30,000. Forty-four percent of the vehicles chosen as top safety picks by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety have an estimated base price of more than $30,000.
2. Value
Each year, Kelley Blue Book rates the cars with the best resale values for their class. For 2009, eight out of 15 segment winners came from a luxury brand or cost more than $30,000. Standouts include the distinctive and quick-selling Mini Cooper, which starts at $18,700 but is one of the most expensive options in the compact class and is made by luxury automaker BMW. Other winners were the high-performance $76,840 Nissan GT-R and $40,240 Cadillac CTS sedan.
3. Prestige
There's no denying it. Heads turn when an Audi R8, Jaguar XF or Aston Martin DB9 rolls into view. They get parked in the best positions at valet lots and announce your arrival into polite society--or at least the local country club.
4. Beauty and Comfort
In the annual quality study from J.D. Power and Associates, only two brands, Jaguar and Porsche, received perfect scores for design quality. Remote-start and cold-weather packages from the likes of BMW and Porsche include heated seats and ski bags to help owners hit the shops or the slopes in the most comfortable way possible.
5. Interior
Or queen, as the case may be. From straight-grained East Indian rosewood trim in the Rolls-Royce Phantom tungsten to thick lambswool rugs in the Bentley Continental GT, luxury cars take opulence to the next level. Even if the silver champagne flutes in the $451,250 Maybach 62 S are out of your range, $1,200 will get you a semi-aniline leather-trimmed interior with African bubinga wood interior trim in the 2009 Lexus LX SUV.
6. Technology
Historically, luxury cars have offered the latest and greatest safety features (anti-lock brakes, review cameras) and entertainment technology (in-headrest TV screens, Bluetooth) before these options trickle down to the masses. In this year's 2009 luxury models, you can get everything from remote starters, electronic parking aids and rain-sensing windshield wipers to a fully integrated iPod music interface.
7. Maintenance
Certified-pre-owned programs like the one at BMW offer comprehensive roadside assistance--and the assurance that only vehicles that meet BMW's stringent standards and pass its certification process receive the certified pre-owned title. Brand-new BMWs are well looked-after even before they become CPOs, says Jim McDonnell, president of BMW North America, because the German company awards free maintenance and roadside assistance for the first four years of ownership.
8. Style
Bugatti invites buyers to its Dorlisheim, France, factory so they can customize exterior paint colors, interior dashboard trim and interior monograms. New-car buyers at Porsche meet with a personal consultant to determine how to customize the vehicle. The 911, for instance, offers custom-painted air intake grilles and specialized aluminum or leather gear levers to colored ceramic brakes and fine wood trims like Makassar and sycamore.
9. Horsepower
When it comes to sheer power, luxury cars come with plenty--without even having to upgrade the engine. Out of 353 2009 models evaluated by Consumer Reports, only six of them had at least 300 horsepower and cost under $30,000. Fifty-two had at least 300 horses under their belt and cost more than $30,000. Leading them are BMW's M-line, with models that bring 400 to 500 horsepower.
10. Quality
Results from J.D. Power's Initial Quality Survey found that Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, Mercury, Porsche and Toyota are the brands with the highest overall quality for 2008. Four of those--Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes and Porsche--are premium brands. In individual categories, Infiniti and Lexus are the only brands with perfect scores for powertrain mechanical quality. BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Porsche are the only brands that received perfect scores for mechanical body and interior quality.
#350
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Unaffordable Autos?
Once upon time, when million-dollar bonuses rained down upon Wall Street, bankers would think nothing of blowing tens of thousands of dollars on an exotic car—or two. Driveways in the Hamptons, Greenwich, and Palo Alto were decorated with gleaming German and Italian machinery. But now, as the bonuses have dried up, so have sales of Mercedes and BMWs. In the harsh new reality confronting the financial sector—salary caps! nationalization of banks! Lehman Brothers!—it will be the rare banker who can afford to take his check and blow it at his local Ferrari dealer—assuming, of course, that he even got enough this year to make a down payment.
Aston Martin
Sales: -42.9%
MSRP: $111,000 for the Vantage and $182,400 for the DB9
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Bond. James Bond. Aston has been making a comeback among the Bentley and Jag crowd, first under Ford ownership and now back under British control. But even the inner secret agent in us is not immune to the financial markets cratering. Comparative numbers with 2005 are misleading because it was before Ford began offering the new models. Sales are way down from 2007.
Audi A8
Sales: -65.1%
MSRP: $74.040-$120,100
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,215
Snob Appeal: The A8, for many, is the thinking man's Bimmer 7 Series and Mercedes S-Class. With a smarter driver/electronic interface than its German rivals, it has long been the road less traveled for people who wanted to keep their money quieter. The more expensive S8 version, with a 5.2 liter V10 engine, packs 450 horses under the hood.
Audi TT
Sales: -51.8%
MSRP: $35,200-$43,470
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,755
Snob Appeal: An affordable two-seater coupe for many from Germany's other luxe brand, the TT became an iconic Sunday car for lower- and mid-level bonus bankers. But there are fewer of those these days.
Bentley
Sales: -74.7%
MSRP: $197,100
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: The lowest-cost Bentley, the Continental GT quickly became the new flavor among wealthy bankers, ad executives and even big moneyed hip-hoppers when they wanted to leave the posse at home. The Continental has been driving volume, but that's off now from a year ago. Other Bentley models, like the Arnage, have slipped as well.
BMW 7 Series
Sales: -96.8%
MSRP: $80,300-$84,200
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $3,650
Snob Appeal: It's the Big Bimmer. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" has long been hot with luxury car buyers who are driven by performance. The fussy electronics repelled some older buyers and attracted some younger. There is a brand new 7 coming out this spring to U.S. dealers. Timing could have been better.
BMW X5
Sales: +23.3%
MSRP: $47,500-$56,200
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: This BMW "sport activity vehicle" was the perfect family weekend runabout for Mr. & Mrs. Banker and their well-fed little brood. It handles, well, like a BMW, and looks slick. Cargo room was nonexistent but when you own a weekend home, you don't need to pack that much anyway!
BMW Z4
Sales: -87.6%
MSRP: $36,700-$50,400
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,915
Snob Appeal: Controversial design, with BMW's "flame surfacing" on the side panels. But the BMW badge especially made the convertible version a leading choice for men and women to blow bonus money on until the Dow Jones went up in flames.
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Sales: -24.5%
MSRP: $61,595-$85,780
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: If you have a big family, are extremely security-conscious, or just believe in buying American, it's hard to beat for size, comfort, and that "Master of the Universe" thing. It looks equally impressive pulling up to the nightclub or the office parking lot, unless you're in Silicon Valley.
Chevrolet Corvette
Sales: -58.2%
MSRP: $46,000-$67,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,856
Snob Appeal: Corvettes historically appeal to less-educated people with money, but there has always been a strong market among highfliers in the Midwest and California, mostly men who lusted after a 'Vette in their youth and still consider it the world's coolest car.
Ferrari
Sales: -44.4%
MSRP: $186,000-$312,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Reeks of money. Rarely even seen on the roads during the week, these are garaged and seldom-used Sunday cars for those impervious to the Dow. Sales were up slightly in 2008, in part because of advance orders. But the trend is definitely softening.
Infiniti QX56
Sales: -70.4%
MSRP: $55,050-$58,150
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,935
Snob Appeal: The sheer bigness of the QX56 appealed to people for whom a Hummer was too militant, and those who don't like Detroit product. The luxe version of the equally gas-thirsty Nissan Armada, the gangly QX is heavily discounted today and still looking for buyers.
Jaguar XJ
Sales: NA
MSRP: $65,700
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,942
Snob Appeal: The XJ sedan has taken it on the chin, and is more apt to be bought by an aging banker who has already made his money--as long, of course, as he hadn't invested with Bernie Madoff or Allen Stanford. To be fair, the XK coupe and the new XF sedan have been reviewed and received better than the old XJ, and may take the heat off the slower sales of the old boy.
Lamborghini
Sales: -28.6%
MSRP: $119,000-$1.5 million for the Reventon
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: See Ferrari snob appeal, but even more so. Lambos are rarely seen on the road. And the number of people who can afford to blow this kind of dough on a garage machine are fewer and fewer all the time.
Lexus LS
Sales: -52.6%
MSRP: $63,675-$106,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,361
Snob Appeal: The Lexus LS soaked up a lot of wealthy buyers turned on by the super-silent nature, the extreme quality, and good caretaking by the dealers. The perennial king of quality rankings, the LS has been a haven for people frustrated by Mercedes' and BMW's over-complicated electronics and haughty mechanics named Helmut.
Lexus LX
Sales: -53.8%
MSRP: $75,705
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,361
Snob Appeal: A niche vehicle in the Lexus lineup, it is the more luxurious version of the Toyota Land Cruiser. Anyone who buys one of these is almost sure to be the only one on the block to own one. A hopeless gas guzzler, it is the latter-day Jeep Grand Wagoneer for people with quiet money. This is for the quirky hedge fund manager who is an obsessive fly-fisher and buys tailored hip-waders.
Maserati
Sales: -22.6%
MSRP: $117,000-$119,750
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Maserati has had its engineering ups and downs over the years, but it had been gaining steam as an alternate choice to German luxe. Like Aston Martins and unlike Ferrari or Lamborghini, Maseratis are powerful but don't require a special course to learn how to drive.
Maybach
Sales: -20%
MSRP: $335,500-$409,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: The Maybach was Mercedes' answer to Rolls-Royce. But it has always seemed to be an answer to a question nobody was asking. This is more for European and Saudi bankers than U.S. bankers who see Maybach and Rolls as a bit too flashy even for them.
Mercedes-Benz CL
Sales: -60.5%
MSRP: $107,900-$151,900
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob appeal: This is a truly exquisite car and what is so cool about it is its stealth appeal. Unless you know what it is you might think it's just another Mercedes coupe. But you'd be wrong. This is a much more refined, powerful, and well-bred machine. Fast as all get-out but easy to drive.
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Sales: -47.3%
MSRP: $100,250-$120,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,398
Snob Appeal: A repackaged military vehicle. Think about a German cross between Hummer and Range Rover. Along with those and the Toyota Land Cruiser, it appeals to buyers who want way more vehicle than they ever need to hit the mall or the club, or ferry the kids to private school.
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Sales: -68.6%
MSRP: $89,350-$198,950
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $3,870
Snob Appeal: Historically, the S-Class is the Big Daddy of prestige. Mercedes' top-of-the-line sedan. That pretty much says it all.
Porsche Cayenne
Sales: -6.1%
MSRP: $43,400-$93,700
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: It's an SUV and a Porsche. How much more snob appeal do you want? When it was first introduced in 2002 there were howls of protest from outraged Porsche purists who decried the company's blatantly commercial move into the profitable SUV category at the risk, they felt, of everything the marque stood for. But the Cayenne quickly became a best-seller, vindicating management's sacrilege.
Porsche 911
Sales: -46.3%
MSRP: $76,300-$140,700
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,794
Snob Appeal: A perennially magnificent driving machine, the 911 is an iconic automotive badge for well-heeled buyers whose careers are about performance. Think fund mangers and bond traders. When those performance bonuses evaporated for many, so did sales.
Range Rover Sport
Sales: NA
MSRP: $58,375-$71,825
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,387
Snob Appeal: Nobody seemed to mind the fuel-economy readout on the dash that seems to stay on 13 no matter what the driving conditions. While other Land Rovers and even the standard Range Rover were being passed over, the Sport version was pulling in buyers that otherwise wouldn't be considering the British icon.
Rolls-Royce
Sales: -31.8%
MSRP: $340,000-$407,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Rolls-Royce is the epitome of snob appeal—or at least it used to be. Aside from a few members of Britain's royal family, sheiks, casino owners, and limo companies, few millionaires embrace Rolls as a badge of financial honor. Rolls executives say very few Rolls owners actually ride in the backseat. But maybe that's because they have had to fire their chauffeurs lately.
Once upon time, when million-dollar bonuses rained down upon Wall Street, bankers would think nothing of blowing tens of thousands of dollars on an exotic car—or two. Driveways in the Hamptons, Greenwich, and Palo Alto were decorated with gleaming German and Italian machinery. But now, as the bonuses have dried up, so have sales of Mercedes and BMWs. In the harsh new reality confronting the financial sector—salary caps! nationalization of banks! Lehman Brothers!—it will be the rare banker who can afford to take his check and blow it at his local Ferrari dealer—assuming, of course, that he even got enough this year to make a down payment.
Aston Martin
Sales: -42.9%
MSRP: $111,000 for the Vantage and $182,400 for the DB9
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Bond. James Bond. Aston has been making a comeback among the Bentley and Jag crowd, first under Ford ownership and now back under British control. But even the inner secret agent in us is not immune to the financial markets cratering. Comparative numbers with 2005 are misleading because it was before Ford began offering the new models. Sales are way down from 2007.
Audi A8
Sales: -65.1%
MSRP: $74.040-$120,100
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,215
Snob Appeal: The A8, for many, is the thinking man's Bimmer 7 Series and Mercedes S-Class. With a smarter driver/electronic interface than its German rivals, it has long been the road less traveled for people who wanted to keep their money quieter. The more expensive S8 version, with a 5.2 liter V10 engine, packs 450 horses under the hood.
Audi TT
Sales: -51.8%
MSRP: $35,200-$43,470
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,755
Snob Appeal: An affordable two-seater coupe for many from Germany's other luxe brand, the TT became an iconic Sunday car for lower- and mid-level bonus bankers. But there are fewer of those these days.
Bentley
Sales: -74.7%
MSRP: $197,100
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: The lowest-cost Bentley, the Continental GT quickly became the new flavor among wealthy bankers, ad executives and even big moneyed hip-hoppers when they wanted to leave the posse at home. The Continental has been driving volume, but that's off now from a year ago. Other Bentley models, like the Arnage, have slipped as well.
BMW 7 Series
Sales: -96.8%
MSRP: $80,300-$84,200
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $3,650
Snob Appeal: It's the Big Bimmer. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" has long been hot with luxury car buyers who are driven by performance. The fussy electronics repelled some older buyers and attracted some younger. There is a brand new 7 coming out this spring to U.S. dealers. Timing could have been better.
BMW X5
Sales: +23.3%
MSRP: $47,500-$56,200
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: This BMW "sport activity vehicle" was the perfect family weekend runabout for Mr. & Mrs. Banker and their well-fed little brood. It handles, well, like a BMW, and looks slick. Cargo room was nonexistent but when you own a weekend home, you don't need to pack that much anyway!
BMW Z4
Sales: -87.6%
MSRP: $36,700-$50,400
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,915
Snob Appeal: Controversial design, with BMW's "flame surfacing" on the side panels. But the BMW badge especially made the convertible version a leading choice for men and women to blow bonus money on until the Dow Jones went up in flames.
Cadillac Escalade ESV
Sales: -24.5%
MSRP: $61,595-$85,780
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: If you have a big family, are extremely security-conscious, or just believe in buying American, it's hard to beat for size, comfort, and that "Master of the Universe" thing. It looks equally impressive pulling up to the nightclub or the office parking lot, unless you're in Silicon Valley.
Chevrolet Corvette
Sales: -58.2%
MSRP: $46,000-$67,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,856
Snob Appeal: Corvettes historically appeal to less-educated people with money, but there has always been a strong market among highfliers in the Midwest and California, mostly men who lusted after a 'Vette in their youth and still consider it the world's coolest car.
Ferrari
Sales: -44.4%
MSRP: $186,000-$312,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Reeks of money. Rarely even seen on the roads during the week, these are garaged and seldom-used Sunday cars for those impervious to the Dow. Sales were up slightly in 2008, in part because of advance orders. But the trend is definitely softening.
Infiniti QX56
Sales: -70.4%
MSRP: $55,050-$58,150
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,935
Snob Appeal: The sheer bigness of the QX56 appealed to people for whom a Hummer was too militant, and those who don't like Detroit product. The luxe version of the equally gas-thirsty Nissan Armada, the gangly QX is heavily discounted today and still looking for buyers.
Jaguar XJ
Sales: NA
MSRP: $65,700
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $1,942
Snob Appeal: The XJ sedan has taken it on the chin, and is more apt to be bought by an aging banker who has already made his money--as long, of course, as he hadn't invested with Bernie Madoff or Allen Stanford. To be fair, the XK coupe and the new XF sedan have been reviewed and received better than the old XJ, and may take the heat off the slower sales of the old boy.
Lamborghini
Sales: -28.6%
MSRP: $119,000-$1.5 million for the Reventon
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: See Ferrari snob appeal, but even more so. Lambos are rarely seen on the road. And the number of people who can afford to blow this kind of dough on a garage machine are fewer and fewer all the time.
Lexus LS
Sales: -52.6%
MSRP: $63,675-$106,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,361
Snob Appeal: The Lexus LS soaked up a lot of wealthy buyers turned on by the super-silent nature, the extreme quality, and good caretaking by the dealers. The perennial king of quality rankings, the LS has been a haven for people frustrated by Mercedes' and BMW's over-complicated electronics and haughty mechanics named Helmut.
Lexus LX
Sales: -53.8%
MSRP: $75,705
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,361
Snob Appeal: A niche vehicle in the Lexus lineup, it is the more luxurious version of the Toyota Land Cruiser. Anyone who buys one of these is almost sure to be the only one on the block to own one. A hopeless gas guzzler, it is the latter-day Jeep Grand Wagoneer for people with quiet money. This is for the quirky hedge fund manager who is an obsessive fly-fisher and buys tailored hip-waders.
Maserati
Sales: -22.6%
MSRP: $117,000-$119,750
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Maserati has had its engineering ups and downs over the years, but it had been gaining steam as an alternate choice to German luxe. Like Aston Martins and unlike Ferrari or Lamborghini, Maseratis are powerful but don't require a special course to learn how to drive.
Maybach
Sales: -20%
MSRP: $335,500-$409,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: The Maybach was Mercedes' answer to Rolls-Royce. But it has always seemed to be an answer to a question nobody was asking. This is more for European and Saudi bankers than U.S. bankers who see Maybach and Rolls as a bit too flashy even for them.
Mercedes-Benz CL
Sales: -60.5%
MSRP: $107,900-$151,900
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob appeal: This is a truly exquisite car and what is so cool about it is its stealth appeal. Unless you know what it is you might think it's just another Mercedes coupe. But you'd be wrong. This is a much more refined, powerful, and well-bred machine. Fast as all get-out but easy to drive.
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Sales: -47.3%
MSRP: $100,250-$120,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,398
Snob Appeal: A repackaged military vehicle. Think about a German cross between Hummer and Range Rover. Along with those and the Toyota Land Cruiser, it appeals to buyers who want way more vehicle than they ever need to hit the mall or the club, or ferry the kids to private school.
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Sales: -68.6%
MSRP: $89,350-$198,950
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $3,870
Snob Appeal: Historically, the S-Class is the Big Daddy of prestige. Mercedes' top-of-the-line sedan. That pretty much says it all.
Porsche Cayenne
Sales: -6.1%
MSRP: $43,400-$93,700
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: It's an SUV and a Porsche. How much more snob appeal do you want? When it was first introduced in 2002 there were howls of protest from outraged Porsche purists who decried the company's blatantly commercial move into the profitable SUV category at the risk, they felt, of everything the marque stood for. But the Cayenne quickly became a best-seller, vindicating management's sacrilege.
Porsche 911
Sales: -46.3%
MSRP: $76,300-$140,700
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,794
Snob Appeal: A perennially magnificent driving machine, the 911 is an iconic automotive badge for well-heeled buyers whose careers are about performance. Think fund mangers and bond traders. When those performance bonuses evaporated for many, so did sales.
Range Rover Sport
Sales: NA
MSRP: $58,375-$71,825
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: $2,387
Snob Appeal: Nobody seemed to mind the fuel-economy readout on the dash that seems to stay on 13 no matter what the driving conditions. While other Land Rovers and even the standard Range Rover were being passed over, the Sport version was pulling in buyers that otherwise wouldn't be considering the British icon.
Rolls-Royce
Sales: -31.8%
MSRP: $340,000-$407,000
Estimated Annual Insurance Costs: NA
Snob Appeal: Rolls-Royce is the epitome of snob appeal—or at least it used to be. Aside from a few members of Britain's royal family, sheiks, casino owners, and limo companies, few millionaires embrace Rolls as a badge of financial honor. Rolls executives say very few Rolls owners actually ride in the backseat. But maybe that's because they have had to fire their chauffeurs lately.