irieblue

http://emercedesbenz.com/Mar08/10_00...nsmission.html

It looks like this gear box is exclusive to the 09 SL 63. Anyone thinks this will end up in the S class AMG version for 09? With max rpm of 7200 and being able to change gears in 100 msec should be quite a thrill..

Germancar1

Nope. Too sporty for the S-Class, even the AMG models.

M

WSH

Am hoping MCT (or at least downshift blips) are incorporated in MY09 S/CL63....

Agree....MCT may not be smooth enough for AMG S/CL, but would suspect AMG would like to amortize MCT R&D costs over as many units of $150K+ AMGs as poss....and acquire valuable real-world reliability/useability data before putting MCT in SL Blk....

If it weren't for MCT, doubt many tech-oriented car guys would want the otherwise primitive SL63 030.....for anyone accustomed to CL63 030 (arguably world's highest-tech car), SL63 is rather archaic.....convertible lacks body rigidity/roof strength; lack of advanced sport seats; no active head restraints; dangerous AirScarf fans near one's head; Parktronic bulletholes; no DistPlus/BrakeAssist/BSA; sat radio lump on trunklid; TeleAid antenna, etc etc....

Will hopefully be able to drive a colleague's SL63 030 in next few days (upon arrival in CA), so will quickly gain a sense of MCT's value on interesting roads.....if MCT isn't stunning tech, will prob pass on SL63 030 and simply get a new '09 CL63 030 or CL65....

Germancar1

I like your posts WSH, but I think you're going a little overboard with the SL being "primative". The SL and every other Mercedes has had brake assist for years now. You can't compare the rigidity of the SL to the CL either, a convertible is always going to lose that one. Otherwise the SL is a stiff as they (convetibles) come.

M

WSH

Germancar1, always enjoy your posts/obsvns as well

Am a curmudgeon, so my comments should be taken w/some context....no doubt SL63 030 will be one of world's 2-3 leading perf cars....w/overall perf/safety/comfort/daily-useability tech that makes any current Ferrari or Porsche (let alone any other brand) seem truly primitive....

AMG should be proud that CL63 030 still commands so much loyalty among many jaded consumers who can afford any car; it's simply a brilliantly engineered car against which many will be benchmarking SL63 030....

But S/CL have had lots of important, remarkably innovative safety tech for 2+ yrs already....by BrakeAssist, I mean the automated coupling of DistPlus to BrakeAssist (even if cruise ctrl not used), part of the more sophisticated S/CL Pre-Safe algorithm.....what really irks me about SL's lack of S/CL-caliber safety tech is the lack of active head restraints....and the dubious safety logic of AirScarf fans/vents near one's head/neck....

trumpet1

I would think this tranny would fit quite well in the AMG models as well as the S class family. In fact, it should be an option on all Mercedes Benz automobiles except maybe the C class. It seems like a terrific new transmission design. I hope they've patented it.

trumpet1

I think you'd like the CL/S 65. I want an S65 so bad I can't stand it.

WSH

Tell me about it....

Had some amazing drives on SF Peninsula this past wkend (60F, blue skies, lt and brisk traffic)....where I truly missed tq of a 65 (many settings ideal for launching a 65 missle)....and where I was reminded how remarkably well-balanced is the AMG CL chassis, even in challenging mtn twisties....and am a mediocre driver, so I suspect superb chassis engineering is critical for a driver like me on challenging roads....

Indeed, very tempted to get a CL65....am hoping this Fall's SL Blk will have a new-tech NA V12 w/MCT.....we'll all find out soon.....

BTW, like your new avatar, Trumpet.....who is that? (I have poor knowledge of pop culture, so this may be an ignorant question)

trumpet1

That is Terry Farrell who played the part of Reggie Kostas on the TV show "Becker". I love that picture of her as I think she is gorgeous.
She was a model back then when she was probably 30 years old. She is about 2 months younger than I am. Wish I could get her to ride in my Benz with me just one time
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...yFarrell-1.jpg

WSH

Excellent, trumpet; you have great taste in cars and women...thx for enlightening me

Just as in interesting new cars, one would be surprised how few young women are elegantly attractive, even in places like BevHills (land of tacky aftermkt everything)....aftermkt stuff is invariably gruesome/tacky, whether on cars/chicks, esp if starting point is naturally elegant/attractive....

whoover

It's just a W220, but I had a ball yesterday with the twisties between Saratoga and Big Basin State Park, especially the return -- there was zero traffic. I kept it in second, used engine braking to about 40 at the apex of the switchbacks and exited the turn on power to about 70, then down to 40 for the next switchback. The control of this monster car with the infinite torque is amazing.

I assume the new tranny will make it to the rest of the 63s. I fear it won't handle the torque of the 65s. If they can certify a version at 1200 N-m and remove the torque limiter, all would be well with the world. Certainly something to dream about.

WSH

whoover, pleased to hear that others were enjoying our weather/roads on Peninsula this wkend

BTW, have a colleague who had '06 S65 and had '07 S65 (now has CL63 030) who laments that his '06 S65 had better traction and a more useable chassis than his '07.....suspect we're splitting hairs.....all of these AMG/600s are magnificent pieces of engineering....

rkao

I think I agree with what you're saying, given that the 'new' SL63 is still the R230 generation of the SL which dates back to 2003; so it lacks some of the most recent updates in technologies and safety features.

Having said that and having owned an '04 SL500, I also agree that it is still a benchmark car in this segment. And after attending the SL63 introduction at the NYIAS last week, it is a beautiful car and a brilliant update, IMHO, of the R230. Perhaps one day I'll get another SL and the SL63 would be my top pick, congratulations on your choice.

The C63 was also fantastic...really looking forward to see what AMG brings forth for the next generation W212 E63...

Germancar1

I really don't see those little cheap CPU fans being an issue. This is MB we're talking about and I hardly think they'd put them there if there was any real danger in doing so. I see what you mean about the safety tech of the CL vs. the SL, but still the SL is still the best luxury 2-seat droptop going so I'd be satisfied with that, but then again you buy/trade these cars like they're Honda Accords! Must be nice.


Still I don't see any other luxury (or any convertible) as well rounded as the SL, and the ones that are close are expensive and German also. And the SL still arguably leads them all in overall competence.

M

Germancar1

Nah. The first S-Class buyers that gets a jerky (i.e. sporty) shift from this transmission will be right back at the dealer complaining and filling out Consumer Reports and JD Powers surveys and Mercedes can't have that. If anything the C63 and next generation CLK63 and CLK Black Series will get this transmission. Maybe the next AMG E-Class too. S and CL are still too luxury biased to get it. No way they'll make it an option across the line. Too expensive and it would cause major problems with the "joe clueless" buyers who don't get what this transmission is about.

I am surprised the CLK63 Black Series didn't get it, it was only a year off. Seems like they could have waited, but I guess not. Oh and this SL Black Series might get it depending on what engine is really under there. Rumors and speculation is all over the place right now. V8, V8 Turbo, V12 etc.

M

whoover

I don't think the S63 and SL63 buyer profiles are as different as you think. For one thing, a lot more women drive SLs of all tunes, including AMGs, than S or CLs. You don't hear about Britney Spears and Linsday Lohan crashing their S-classes; it's always SL65s. Yes, there are the clueless sorts that buy S65s and get chauffeured around, but they're pretty rare. As long as the tranny has a soft-shift setting for them, 90% of S63 and S65 drivers would kill for a faster tranny, especially one that would allow the safe removal of the torque limiter.

WSH

I'm w/whoover on this one....

Know many guys who are frequent-repeat AMG S/CL/SL buyers; they don't fill out surveys of any kind; if they have an issue, they'll let their usual salesman know....and AMG seems to closely follow feedback from major dealers in major mkts, esp when repeat customers opine....most accurate/relevant "survey" is repeat buying of $150K+ cars....

Would observe that in SiliconValley some elder statesmen are now >50yo....and have been driving new AMGs for yrs....doubt they are reverting to non-AMGs in their lifetime....and most quant-oriented car guys choose their cars based upon tech advances and real-world dynamics, so the missing MCT in AMG S/CL is glaring....

Also, let's step back and realize how far car perf and buyers' preferences/tolerances have advanced in past 5-10yrs.....Who would have predicted that guys would be routinely driving AMG S/CLs w/20" wheels and low-profile perf tires on the imperfect pavement of CA/NYC (w/o apparently increased rates of bent wheels/flat tires)? That "gentleman" buyers would grow so addicted to the ever-more boisterous exhaust notes of 55/63? That typically non-DIY buyers of new 600/63/65 would tolerate these motors' typical need for frequent addition of oil? That buyers would tolerate increasingly high-perf, high-wear-rate tires w/traction issues at temps <45F? Large brakes on AMGs that prevent easy availability of size-relevant winter tires/wheels? 20" perf tires/wheels that aren't readily available, even for overnt deliv in SF/LA, if one emergently needs new tire(s)/wheel(s)?

Agree....it's rather challenging to optimize innovation/perf/safety/comfort/daily-useability/quality&reliability, esp vs a jaded repeat buyer base.....but AMG has demonstrated better skill in achieving this balance than any other mfr....as best proven by its impressive repeat buyer base.....

MBZFAN55

As a Senior VP of the Mercedes Curmudgeon Division (age 58), I can assure you that the MCT tranny has me licking my lips with anticipation. I can appreciate WSH's desire to at least try the SL63 after driving the CL63 for the past year with "only" the three trans/suspension settings available (S-Sport Mode actually being more enjoyable and interesting than M-Manual Mode, imo) . I agree that the "typical" S550/600 buyer has no need nor interest in the attributes or performance of the MCT, but the current and newly developing AMG models are fertile ground. There is much more in today's CL/S63's than a body kit and those who drive them will be first in line to get the latest in performance transmissions.

WSH

MBZFAN55, LOL....

I'm a few yrs younger but have been a curmudgeon since I was some 4yo....

Agree, I almost always drive my CL63 in Sport mode (only shift to Comfort mode if raining/wet)....have yet to find myself faster/smoother/more stable in Manual mode, no matter how challenging the road....today's gearboxes are awfully fast/smart....and I suspect I'll be driving SL63 030 in Sport Plus mode....IMO, Manual mode makes little intuitive sense in era of fast/smart chassis/drivetrain computer networks rapidly assessing and reacting to chassis stability; human gear inputs prob only slow/destabilize the chassis.....even AMG doesn't claim faster NBR times w/a pro driver in Manual mode vs Sport.....

Germancar1's points re: importance of smoothness are well-taken....I'd prob have argued same points some 2-3 yrs ago....but perf car tech/useability and buyer preferences have evolved signif in past few yrs.....

I distinctly recall my first AMG, a new CL55 (upon its ?'00 launch).....IMO, far too much engine vs an overly-luxury-oriented chassis, even evident on boring NYC region curvy roads....back in CY02, AMG cemented its reputation w/the iconic, innovative SL55....today's CL63 is simply astounding in its capabilities/confidence-inspiring stability&precision on the most challenging CA mtn twisties......and many repeat AMG S/CL buyers are now addicted to this uncanny balance of precision, stability and smoothness...and demand latest/greatest perf tech in any $150K+ AMG....

Germancar1

Thats just it, even in automatic mode (reviews) say that there is a noticeable difference from the regular automatic. The problem is when the clueless survey people get a hold of one they'll squeal like piglets when upon that first "rough" (to them) shift. You and I know the difference, but I bet MBSUA isn't willing to get Germany to do this because of the potential complaints and confusion at the dealership service bay.

That said I agree with you and WSH that this transmission would be great for a CL/S63, but the demogrhapic isn't up for it. It still a luxury car to most.

Sure there are many here who don't fill out surveys, but this small sample doesn't cut it when Consumer Reports founds enough people to complain about a car that we all know here has been the reliable Benz in 20 years.

M

rkao

Interesting point about demographics, as in my mind the segment of the demographics that wants luxury above sport in a Mercedes-Benz would opt for the CL/S600 instead of the AMG models - discuss.

whoover

Plus my main argument: the SL63 buyer is no less likely to squeal like a piglet than an S63 buyer at a rough shift. It's not like SLs and SL buyers are closer in temperament to M6 or 997 TT or Z06 drivers than S or CL buyers because the SL is a roadster. They're all AMG buyers with very similar tastes and values, although there is a range of preferences on the luxo-sport continuum.

Germancar1

They probably are, but when people spend this money on a sedan or coupe, you've taken a good number of the "sportier" buyers away right there, AMG or not. Of course a SL63 buyers is going to be more into sport than a S63 buyer. The average S63 buyer isn't going to want to feel a transmission shift IMO. CL63 I don't know. I wouldn't wait on Mercedes putting the MCT in any version of the S-Class or CL unless they really plan to take the AMG S/CL models to the next level and truly make them different. Either way it won't happen before the 2010 facelift.

M