Ridiculous exhaust costs
01-08-2010, 04:27 AM
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CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
Ridiculous exhaust costs
Is it just me, but don't you guys think it's ridiculous how much vendors charge for exhaust upgrades for MB?
$2,400 for 316L polished stainless mufflers, piping and tips? I see custom motorcycle exhaust systems for under a grand that have more technology and fabrication / craftsmanship work that's gone into them...
Just venting... I bet there is room for someone to come and build lower cost exhaust systems sold for a reasonable amount.
I'm thinking of changing the S550 exhaust, got the Eisenmann muffler setup on the CL55 - but I'm just baffled by the cost factor.
I am really looking for S65 tips, Meisterschaft Exhaust systems make imitations - asked if I can only by the tips: $1,000! Unreal.
$2,400 for 316L polished stainless mufflers, piping and tips? I see custom motorcycle exhaust systems for under a grand that have more technology and fabrication / craftsmanship work that's gone into them...
Just venting... I bet there is room for someone to come and build lower cost exhaust systems sold for a reasonable amount.
I'm thinking of changing the S550 exhaust, got the Eisenmann muffler setup on the CL55 - but I'm just baffled by the cost factor.
I am really looking for S65 tips, Meisterschaft Exhaust systems make imitations - asked if I can only by the tips: $1,000! Unreal.
01-08-2010, 10:17 AM
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2009 S550V4 Saks Key to Cure
I'm right there with you. I recently bought an S550 (and recently joined these forums) and have been searching for a way to upgrade the exhaust w/o spending a ton.
Do you know if we can buy OEM S63 exhaust and put it in the S550?
Do you know if we can buy OEM S63 exhaust and put it in the S550?
01-08-2010, 01:09 PM
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My ex-cars: 03 E55,04 C32, 05 C55 ,03 E320
Supply and Demand my friend...
But yeah I agree, vendors charge a lot...but I think it is to cover their R&D with the small demand...and ok maybe a little bit of greed.
But yeah I agree, vendors charge a lot...but I think it is to cover their R&D with the small demand...and ok maybe a little bit of greed.
01-08-2010, 01:25 PM
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223.168 & 213.012 & 906.633 & 214.005
Basic wear part that are difficult to find elsewhere should preferably be cheap (although I would not mind if all were cheap, but this should be the priority order).
01-08-2010, 05:28 PM
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2007 s600 2007 cls63
I say its like 90% greed on the vendor's part....same exhaust made from same materials if it was marketed for a honda then its mostly like 300-400, for a C-class it'll be like 12-1400, but when its for a S-class it just becomes 2400 even though the overhead remains the same. But come to think of it, ever look at how much an exhaust for a Bentley or Ferrari would cost?
01-08-2010, 07:17 PM
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They are expensive!!! I have the full S65 exhaust, its about $3k for both sides with a wholesale account. Well worth it though...
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01-09-2010, 01:28 AM
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CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
That's the funny thing - F430 or Continental GT exhaust upgrade is within the same ballpark as the Mercedes S, SL or CL.
Exhaust vendors, watch out - us custom motorcycle guys might just start fab'ing up some custom Mercedes parts at reasonable prices! And it will be handmade in USA parts with nice craftsmanship.
Exhaust vendors, watch out - us custom motorcycle guys might just start fab'ing up some custom Mercedes parts at reasonable prices! And it will be handmade in USA parts with nice craftsmanship.
I say its like 90% gre
ed on the vendor's part....same exhaust made from same materials if it was marketed for a honda then its mostly like 300-400, for a C-class it'll be like 12-1400, but when its for a S-class it just becomes 2400 even though the overhead remains the same. But come to think of it, ever look at how much an exhaust for a Bentley or Ferrari would cost?
ed on the vendor's part....same exhaust made from same materials if it was marketed for a honda then its mostly like 300-400, for a C-class it'll be like 12-1400, but when its for a S-class it just becomes 2400 even though the overhead remains the same. But come to think of it, ever look at how much an exhaust for a Bentley or Ferrari would cost?
01-09-2010, 07:58 AM
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2012 CLS63 PP
That's the funny thing - F430 or Continental GT exhaust upgrade is within the same ballpark as the Mercedes S, SL or CL.
Exhaust vendors, watch out - us custom motorcycle guys might just start fab'ing up some custom Mercedes parts at reasonable prices! And it will be handmade in USA parts with nice craftsmanship.
Exhaust vendors, watch out - us custom motorcycle guys might just start fab'ing up some custom Mercedes parts at reasonable prices! And it will be handmade in USA parts with nice craftsmanship.
01-09-2010, 02:40 PM
#10
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That's the funny thing - F430 or Continental GT exhaust upgrade is within the same ballpark as the Mercedes S, SL or CL.
Exhaust vendors, watch out - us custom motorcycle guys might just start fab'ing up some custom Mercedes parts at reasonable prices! And it will be handmade in USA parts with nice craftsmanship.
Exhaust vendors, watch out - us custom motorcycle guys might just start fab'ing up some custom Mercedes parts at reasonable prices! And it will be handmade in USA parts with nice craftsmanship.
01-10-2010, 09:05 AM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
Um, what percentage of S-class owners modify their exhausts? Maybe 1%? The demand is basically zip.
If you think you can do better, get the business going.
If you think you can do better, get the business going.
01-10-2010, 09:30 AM
#12
EXACTLY!!! Think about it from a business point of view and RETURN ON INVESTMENT. Don't get me wrong I do NOT enjoy high prices for items like these BUT I do understand.
01-10-2010, 01:36 PM
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2007 s600 2007 cls63
Um, what percentage of S-class owners modify their exhausts? Maybe 1%? The demand is basically zip.
If you think you can do better, get the business going.
If you think you can do better, get the business going.
01-10-2010, 10:44 PM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
But say if they can push out exhaust systems for Chevys or Hondas at around $500 and they do the same for the S-class (where they still can turn a profit just not an outrageous amount) dont you guys think more S-class owners would replace the entire exhaust? (instead of the ones that "just get the tips" done?) So its still a matter of these vendors being greedy....
1. Owners of chevys and hondas expect a different level of quality than SClass owners. Where you can get away with aluminized or cheap SS and average welding/fitment on these models, on a MB, you are talking high grade stainless, brilliant tig welding, and high quality mufflers and such. This will not be done for $500, especially not at a profit.
2. The S-Class is a luxury car. Mercedes goes to great lengths to limit engine/exhaust noise in this car. They do this because the average customer wants it. Therefore, I don't think a lower exhaust price would make a meaningful impact on the number of people who want louder S-Classes. The average age of an S550 buyer is near 60.
3. They are being greedy, which they should be. If they are charging $2500 for a simple exhaust, and the small subsection of S-Class owners that wants a loud exhaust are buying them, and no one has entered the market with a cheaper product, why shouldn't they charge what the market will bear? It may just be me, but If I open an exhaust shop, I would not feel remotely bad about charging a lot of money for a high quality product for a low demand product on a $100k vehicle.
01-11-2010, 01:43 AM
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CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
w126 cars sold over 800k units
w140 was over 400k
w220 is also over 400k
Let's say your estimate is correct, 1% would be roughly 4k potential customers. Even if I had 25% penetration, that's a 1k units. Let's say you were selling only S65 copy cat tips, for say $400 a set at 50% margin - that works up to be $400,000 gross.
But I think your 1% is wrong, and I'd never sell 1000 units. More than likely it would be another project in the metal shop and I'd sell 30-50 units to friendly folks that are looking for a low cost solution. After all, metal work is a hobby for me, not my primary profession.
w140 was over 400k
w220 is also over 400k
Let's say your estimate is correct, 1% would be roughly 4k potential customers. Even if I had 25% penetration, that's a 1k units. Let's say you were selling only S65 copy cat tips, for say $400 a set at 50% margin - that works up to be $400,000 gross.
But I think your 1% is wrong, and I'd never sell 1000 units. More than likely it would be another project in the metal shop and I'd sell 30-50 units to friendly folks that are looking for a low cost solution. After all, metal work is a hobby for me, not my primary profession.
01-11-2010, 02:03 AM
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CL65 AMG , white S550 Sport w/ white Giovanna 22s, wild custom chopper
Few comments inline - just a question, have you ever owned MB cars with aftermarket body kits, or motor mods? You'd think that the quality of parts you get is great, but in practice it is not.
Couple things.
1. Owners of chevys and hondas expect a different level of quality than SClass owners. Where you can get away with aluminized or cheap SS and average welding/fitment on these models, on a MB, you are talking high grade stainless, brilliant tig welding, and high quality mufflers and such. This will not be done for $500, especially not at a profit.
SERGE: I've seen some nice GMs, MOPARs & FORDs w/ full mandrel bent exhaust systems, stainless steel headers built for and on the car for the same price that I've paid for my Eisenmann mufflers alone. My Eisenmann mufflers have rough welds, that appears as if either too much filler was used and in some places, higher than needed amperage was used on the TIG welder. Not impressive and not brilliant. They were ground down and polished, but it's still visible.
Also, take a look at a body kit from Lorinser - body lines simply do not line up correctly! Vendors aren't charging more because the quality is better - they are charging more because they can and they should, afterall this isn't socialism :-) I was just venting because I wanted to buy S65 tips, but could not except from one vendor that wanted something like $1,200 (GThaus) for the tips alone.
2. The S-Class is a luxury car. Mercedes goes to great lengths to limit engine/exhaust noise in this car. They do this because the average customer wants it. Therefore, I don't think a lower exhaust price would make a meaningful impact on the number of people who want louder S-Classes. The average age of an S550 buyer is near 60.
SERGE: I think there are folks on this thread alone that would upgrade the tips or the mufflers if they were priced reasonably. I also agree that the average person buying an S550 _NEW_ is in his/her 50s or 60s, but the second or third owners are often younger (like me - I'm 30) and have a little bit of testosterone left in them to upgrade the car!!!
In my case, I actually like my wife's S550 to remain quiet, I just want to improve the tips and love the S65 tips. My CL55 is the loud car.
3. They are being greedy, which they should be. If they are charging $2500 for a simple exhaust, and the small subsection of S-Class owners that wants a loud exhaust are buying them, and no one has entered the market with a cheaper product, why shouldn't they charge what the market will bear? It may just be me, but If I open an exhaust shop, I would not feel remotely bad about charging a lot of money for a high quality product for a low demand product on a $100k vehicle.
SERGE: idealistically that is true, we start out in the free market which by definition means no gvt intervention, then businesses that are explosively successful get regulated, and the ones that suck get bailed out. I'm not saying that the tuning vendors should charge less, I was just trying to see if I was alone in thinking it's unjustifiably too much.
It's not like I'm a cheap consumer either. I didn't complain too much to pay 6k for wheels, I didn't complain to spend 1k on ECU tuning. I didn't complain when the ABC broke on the CL55 and it cost lots to fix. I didn't complain when I spent 5k to get the chopper painted. The straw that broke the camel's back was exhaust tips for $1k+.
1. Owners of chevys and hondas expect a different level of quality than SClass owners. Where you can get away with aluminized or cheap SS and average welding/fitment on these models, on a MB, you are talking high grade stainless, brilliant tig welding, and high quality mufflers and such. This will not be done for $500, especially not at a profit.
SERGE: I've seen some nice GMs, MOPARs & FORDs w/ full mandrel bent exhaust systems, stainless steel headers built for and on the car for the same price that I've paid for my Eisenmann mufflers alone. My Eisenmann mufflers have rough welds, that appears as if either too much filler was used and in some places, higher than needed amperage was used on the TIG welder. Not impressive and not brilliant. They were ground down and polished, but it's still visible.
Also, take a look at a body kit from Lorinser - body lines simply do not line up correctly! Vendors aren't charging more because the quality is better - they are charging more because they can and they should, afterall this isn't socialism :-) I was just venting because I wanted to buy S65 tips, but could not except from one vendor that wanted something like $1,200 (GThaus) for the tips alone.
2. The S-Class is a luxury car. Mercedes goes to great lengths to limit engine/exhaust noise in this car. They do this because the average customer wants it. Therefore, I don't think a lower exhaust price would make a meaningful impact on the number of people who want louder S-Classes. The average age of an S550 buyer is near 60.
SERGE: I think there are folks on this thread alone that would upgrade the tips or the mufflers if they were priced reasonably. I also agree that the average person buying an S550 _NEW_ is in his/her 50s or 60s, but the second or third owners are often younger (like me - I'm 30) and have a little bit of testosterone left in them to upgrade the car!!!
In my case, I actually like my wife's S550 to remain quiet, I just want to improve the tips and love the S65 tips. My CL55 is the loud car.
3. They are being greedy, which they should be. If they are charging $2500 for a simple exhaust, and the small subsection of S-Class owners that wants a loud exhaust are buying them, and no one has entered the market with a cheaper product, why shouldn't they charge what the market will bear? It may just be me, but If I open an exhaust shop, I would not feel remotely bad about charging a lot of money for a high quality product for a low demand product on a $100k vehicle.
SERGE: idealistically that is true, we start out in the free market which by definition means no gvt intervention, then businesses that are explosively successful get regulated, and the ones that suck get bailed out. I'm not saying that the tuning vendors should charge less, I was just trying to see if I was alone in thinking it's unjustifiably too much.
It's not like I'm a cheap consumer either. I didn't complain too much to pay 6k for wheels, I didn't complain to spend 1k on ECU tuning. I didn't complain when the ABC broke on the CL55 and it cost lots to fix. I didn't complain when I spent 5k to get the chopper painted. The straw that broke the camel's back was exhaust tips for $1k+.
01-11-2010, 03:25 AM
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10 MB S550, 07 MB S65, 07 S600, 03 MB S430 Graphite Designo, (Sold w/227k miles)99 E430
Shaking my head.......
$1,000 for exhaust tips?! That is crazy.......these guys need to drop the price. But, as long as they are selling the price will not lower.
01-11-2010, 09:19 AM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
w126 cars sold over 800k units
w140 was over 400k
w220 is also over 400k
Let's say your estimate is correct, 1% would be roughly 4k potential customers. Even if I had 25% penetration, that's a 1k units. Let's say you were selling only S65 copy cat tips, for say $400 a set at 50% margin - that works up to be $400,000 gross.
But I think your 1% is wrong, and I'd never sell 1000 units. More than likely it would be another project in the metal shop and I'd sell 30-50 units to friendly folks that are looking for a low cost solution. After all, metal work is a hobby for me, not my primary profession.
w140 was over 400k
w220 is also over 400k
Let's say your estimate is correct, 1% would be roughly 4k potential customers. Even if I had 25% penetration, that's a 1k units. Let's say you were selling only S65 copy cat tips, for say $400 a set at 50% margin - that works up to be $400,000 gross.
But I think your 1% is wrong, and I'd never sell 1000 units. More than likely it would be another project in the metal shop and I'd sell 30-50 units to friendly folks that are looking for a low cost solution. After all, metal work is a hobby for me, not my primary profession.
01-11-2010, 09:34 AM
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2009 S550V4 Saks Key to Cure
I think everyone agrees that the cost of exhaust mods are high. Whether it is justified is debatable. For a moment, however, I would like to shift gears and ask you guys for low-cost ideas to increase/add "throatiness" to the exhaust. Apart from removing the resonator, what are the alternatives, if any?
I guess I'm in the minority of S-class drivers who is not 60 (I'm 34) who needs a 4-wheel drive (I live in the midwest) automobile but who wants the fun (and sound) of an S63 (I didn't like the Audi S8).
I guess I'm in the minority of S-class drivers who is not 60 (I'm 34) who needs a 4-wheel drive (I live in the midwest) automobile but who wants the fun (and sound) of an S63 (I didn't like the Audi S8).
