eugene22n

speaking off talking out of your *** ... S-Class is faster ...

2007 S550: 14.2 @ 101, 63.9 slalom
2010 LS460 Sport: 14.5 @ 98.8, 62.6 slalom

(inside line tests)

And yes I've driven one. Despite it's Yamaha wood it has as much ambiance as a GS. Look at the switch gear. Straight out of a IS or GS. And what are you talking about with the NAV in the Lexus? It's seriously outdated versus all the German competition. The screen is low resolution.

Yes it's cheaper but it's a parts bin car with the rest of Lexus. The S and CL comparatively share little with the C and E in terms of the cabin.

Ambiance is important.

skrontz

I don't care if the thousands of buttons on an LS460 are made of the most expensive royal plastic in the world; there are still too many of them, and it's still plastic.

soldier2304

I dont know why you showing numbers from magazine tests. I am talking about real world driving.. The LS felt much faster than my S550, or perhaps older model 550s were faster than the new facelift? I also owned a GS350 and it does not compare in ANYTHING to a LS460. The drive, the engine, interior, the exterior, that indeed felt just like a Camry. How can you say the the NAV in the Lexus is outdated and that the screen is low resolution?. So your going to tell me that lame shift knob NAV used by MB and BMWs IDrive is better than Lexus NAV which also has a much bigger screen than the S and much better user friendly interface. I also forgot to mention there is absolutely no comparison in the Mark Levinson surround system vs Harman Kardon system in our cars. The Mark Levinson in the LS is by far the best, crisp surround sound experience i've ever had in any car. I think we all should leave the badge behind and accept that the LS460L is a car that indeed can compete with the S550.

transferred

LS460L is a very nice car, comfortable and fairly rare which is a plus compared to the S550 which is everywhere...that said, I'd pick the 'Benz everytime as it's a better handler with a little more power and is slightly better quality... but you can't go wrong with either, or the 750Li or A8L for that matter...

-Rob

eugene22n

Yes the Levinson is superior.

I'm not saying the Lexus is a bad car. Certainly one of the best. For me it has nothing to do with the badge. I own a Japanese car too. But whenever people mention it as a contender price is always a factor. Leave that out and the LS is no longer a competitor vs the german offerings.

If you feel that the LS screen is better I don't know what to say. It's clearly lower resolution though indeed bigger. I don't like resistive touch screens. I find it very efficient to do everything with the controller and voice control. BMW's iDrive is now very good. Audi's MMI is always very good. Both superior to the Harman system MB uses now.

The S-Class is faster from light to light if that's what you mean by real world. Faster to 20, 40, 60 ect.

Switch gear is identical to any other Lexus. Same plastic all around. Though probably the best plastic around.

Soon Hyundai will release the Equus and beat Lexus at its own game.

If you've driven a Genesis V8 you would know its a better value proposition than a GS.

emilner

I have owned an LS in the past and I have driven 460's on quite a few occasions. If you feels your S is slower, you should have it checked out. There is no comparison between the two. Those published numbers are closer than they feel, and I have seen quite a few test runs putting the S at 13.9 in the quarter. The LS has power, but the S feels like a charging beast when compared. In the corners there is no comparison, I do not feel safe taking a corner at speed in an LS. The interior is nice, the exterior is bland, stereo is great if you want to pay a large sum to upgrade to it, all in all it is a great appliance. It has the soul of a GE monogram.

I will tell you one thing- I can't imagine anyone getting out of an LS after spirited driving and stopping to look back at the car and saying "damn" with a chill up their spine and a wide grin...

jj1400

It's been a while that the last time I logged in to this forum was about half year ago. I switched to Lexus after owning 6 MB (oldest was a 2007). I have owned everything of MB but its sport car (sls sl....). Now I am driving in my 13 Lexus LS 600.
What I want to say is:
I know this is a MB forum, so most of you probably do NOT have much experience about Lexus. None of you mentioned reliability issue. You probably want to say, yea, if you buy a MB, who cares reliability? since you are rich!. But, I don't think a 2000 repair bill is a piece of cake of someone who spend 100k on a S. If it really is, then he will buy a RR,
It is not money issue. It is just boring! MB has too many problems, many of which dealer cannot even diagnostic. For example, 2011 S 550, cold start, in the first 2 minutes the car always shakes when switching gears. Yes, you want to say, because IT IS COLD!! Yes I know it is cold, but why my LS does not do that? and not to mention, my first LS is a 2007 with 88k on it.

Oh, and someone mentioned 20k price different. But the fact is, a 2013 Lexus LS 460, invoice will be 69,000 without any option, and dealer has special discount and financing offer, that is about 1150. Factory cost of a base model of LS is about 59600. A S550, 2013, factory cost is around 63700. Much difference? My parents own a MB shop at Germany and my uncle has a Toyota shop in Japan. MB just has more middle men. Dont be fooled by numbers

eugene22n

I've actually had very few issues with my 07 S550 (knock on fake wood).

Never been stranded. No engine, tranny or electronic issues.

I'm glad that you are found a car that fits you but its not the best fit for everybody.

I find the LS really boring and mild in terms of everything compared to the Germans. I mean in terms of interior and exterior styling and the driving dynamics. For me Lexus is the car for people that don't really care about cars that much. They just care about getting around efficiently and comfortably.

If I don't buy the next S (which looks amazing) I'll probably pick the Equus over the Lexus or the other Germans in a split second.

If you want the most *value* for an executive sedan with the fewest tradeoffs its Equus all the way.

jj1400

I agree with you, that the LS is probably for someone who does not care too much about cars. and if reliability is not an issue, I will choose MB anytime than a Lexus. But during my 3 years of ownership of MBs, all of them have problems. Probably I am just not lucky.

For the Equus, I see no reason that you compare it to a S or even LS. The Equus is definitely inferior than those two, except for the price.

Dema

Equus will be more expensive unless you pay cash. It depreciates too fast as in money as in appearance, since quality materials is far away from prefect. I like German cars because they give good attention to details, some very minor but all of them make car ownership pleasant. So for me only one choice is S, then 750, and then A8.

Wolfman

You are making quite a few statements in your post. More middle men? Also, I like to see you backing up the $63700. Clearly not invoice cost nor actual build costs from Mercedes. Nor S-Class costs in Germany either...

MB's profit margin on an S-Class is less than 10%

What is the $2000 repair cost. Just an example to make your point? Your MB's would have been under warranty, right?

While nobody disputes that Lexus leads with lowest issues on their cars, they are clearly not without issues. They just have less.

zam2000

I tested drive the bmw7 serise, ls460l, audi a8l, before purchase the s550 last week.

The bmw feels as fast and powerful as the s, but I couldnt feel the look, both in and outside. The interior feel a bit cheap.

The audi is beautiful inside, and just as fun to drive, but again, feel a bit cramp, and the look outside turn me off. The dealer let me try the S8 with some soup up audio system, and it was somewhat unreal. Just that every audi look pretty much the same. The navigation system is fantastic.

The lexus feels cheap, especially inside with too many silver painted buttons. The wood and center cluster are a bit cheesy. The leather feels cheap. The drive didnt excite me at all (really boring) I didnt try the sport version since I aim for the long wheel base. The audio is fantastic though. Only the one in the audi best it. We didnt like the fact that take out lot off options (door soft close, air matic, audio) it is a very generic sedan.

The s550 offer the look, feel, and drive that got the vote from my wallet. Better, my wife, who have no clue about brand, feels the same !

I feel that the LS would get serious competition from the latest Huyndai Equus (sp..). I didnt test drive that car, but from sitting in and try out the interior/door-slam/seat, they feel very much the same.

RA032924

I love this discussion because my dad is a big lexus fan, and after his two RX's, two ES and finally one LS...I remain a committed Mercedes fan.

Toyota is a great car company. They build high quality, ultra-reliable cars and offer the worlds best and most efficient manufacturing process. They are trouble free -- generally speaking. I have no doubt that they deliver value more so than most car manufacturers. And the cars have gotten better looking over time. They are great for people who don't give a **** about what they drive, other than it should look good, be troublefree and have some status.

But that is where it ends. None of the lexus cars drive like a Mercedes. The LS is powerful, but mute...not quiet. I can't feel a thing. My mom loved sitting in the back of the Lexus, because it was so quiet and isolated. But that was the same reason I hated it. A) I don't sit in the back & B)I like to feel like I am connected to the car. The cars are fast, but it does not feel as safe and as sure footed as the benz.

Finally, maintenance is expensive on both cars. Lexus maintenance, arguably is more than Mercedes because fewer Lexus parts are available after-market. For example, I get most of my parts directly from Bosch, Mann or a wholesaler and have a Mercedes only mechanic do my work for me. Its a fair price. With the lexus, I could never seem to get parts I needed other than from the dealer. And even if the same part was available from Toyota, they would refuse to sell it to me and send me to the lexus dealer...WTF. I could not find a 'Toyota only' mechanic, just a Japanese or Import shop for repairs.

I will admit, I am a bit disappointed with Mercedes quality, though not longevity. The cars are general built for commercial use...Limo's, taxi's, etc. There are drivers and support systems around the world that directly provide feedback to Mercedes, so they 'usually' get it right eventually. Parts that fail the first time rarely continue to fail, but we still suck up the risk and expense.

So given the choice, I'm driving the benz for a long time, enjoying it and keeping maintenance costs through my own process of self maintenance. But then again, I am a car guy, and my dad is not. Of course, most of us on this board are likely biased like me.