Vibration at idle mystery
Im on step one - replacing all motor and tranny mounts... 
03-19-2015, 05:17 PM
#27
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S550 4MATIC
Little update. finally changed all 3 mounts. (they never been changed before). Really easy if you have tools and engine lift.(with car jack it will probably lil difficult to move engine) and if someone can help you that will speed up process by 2 times 
!
Thank you guys for instructions ! Really helped me a lot !
!Thank you guys for instructions ! Really helped me a lot !
03-19-2015, 08:57 PM
#29
Senior Member
For me, when I take my foot off the brake and very slightly press the throttle, I also feel the vibration.
When the vibration occurs while in drive or reverse, sometimes I can also hear some droning. The moment I shift into neutral or park, the noise goes away.
It's almost like a torque converter chatter.
12-18-2015, 01:12 AM
#30
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2008 W211 - S550
Problem Solved in 30 minutes for less than $10
I had this same exact problem start suddenly today while driving around town. Went into the post office, 10 minutes later it's a different car with a shake at idle and especially when turning the steering wheel and the engine was under load at low RPM.
I assure you that it's not the engine/tranny mounts!
You need to perform a routine Throttle Body Cleaning. I will post a video and how-to shortly. Your local dealer can provide you with the exact intake cleaning solvent in a nice little spray can that will fit in the small space just in front of the firewall. If that's not an option you can use Brake cleaner or Electric parts cleaner. Just make sure it's plastic safe.
Take great care to move the butterfly and clean both the top and bottom edges as well as get deep into the throttle body and remove any oily residue. These things get gummed up and it will really impact your performance and drivability.
Don't have a heart attack when the car doesn't start the first 2 times. Also it may run a little rough while re-learning the throttle maps.
Hope that saves some people from having a very expensive trip to the dealer!
-Karl Freund
I assure you that it's not the engine/tranny mounts!
You need to perform a routine Throttle Body Cleaning. I will post a video and how-to shortly. Your local dealer can provide you with the exact intake cleaning solvent in a nice little spray can that will fit in the small space just in front of the firewall. If that's not an option you can use Brake cleaner or Electric parts cleaner. Just make sure it's plastic safe.
Take great care to move the butterfly and clean both the top and bottom edges as well as get deep into the throttle body and remove any oily residue. These things get gummed up and it will really impact your performance and drivability.
Don't have a heart attack when the car doesn't start the first 2 times. Also it may run a little rough while re-learning the throttle maps.
Hope that saves some people from having a very expensive trip to the dealer!
-Karl Freund
12-18-2015, 01:39 AM
#31
Member
I had this same exact problem start suddenly today while driving around town. Went into the post office, 10 minutes later it's a different car with a shake at idle and especially when turning the steering wheel and the engine was under load at low RPM.
I assure you that it's not the engine/tranny mounts!
You need to perform a routine Throttle Body Cleaning. I will post a video and how-to shortly. Your local dealer can provide you with the exact intake cleaning solvent in a nice little spray can that will fit in the small space just in front of the firewall. If that's not an option you can use Brake cleaner or Electric parts cleaner. Just make sure it's plastic safe.
Take great care to move the butterfly and clean both the top and bottom edges as well as get deep into the throttle body and remove any oily residue. These things get gummed up and it will really impact your performance and drivability.
Don't have a heart attack when the car doesn't start the first 2 times. Also it may run a little rough while re-learning the throttle maps.
Hope that saves some people from having a very expensive trip to the dealer!
-Karl Freund
I assure you that it's not the engine/tranny mounts!
You need to perform a routine Throttle Body Cleaning. I will post a video and how-to shortly. Your local dealer can provide you with the exact intake cleaning solvent in a nice little spray can that will fit in the small space just in front of the firewall. If that's not an option you can use Brake cleaner or Electric parts cleaner. Just make sure it's plastic safe.
Take great care to move the butterfly and clean both the top and bottom edges as well as get deep into the throttle body and remove any oily residue. These things get gummed up and it will really impact your performance and drivability.
Don't have a heart attack when the car doesn't start the first 2 times. Also it may run a little rough while re-learning the throttle maps.
Hope that saves some people from having a very expensive trip to the dealer!
-Karl Freund
Longing for your post of throttle body cleaning video!
12-18-2015, 07:42 AM
#33
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09 S550, 08 Charger Srt8, 63 Ford Galaxie 500, 07 GSXR1000
I can't wait to try this! I already replaced the tranny mount and that didn't do squat.
I have the engine mounts just haven't taken them to the indy yet. But first I will try this to see if it stops my vibration with my foot on the brake at a red light!
I have the engine mounts just haven't taken them to the indy yet. But first I will try this to see if it stops my vibration with my foot on the brake at a red light!
12-18-2015, 07:45 AM
#34
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09 S550, 08 Charger Srt8, 63 Ford Galaxie 500, 07 GSXR1000
Here is a link to a post another member did to clean his throttle body.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w210-amg/...t-results.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/w210-amg/...t-results.html
12-18-2015, 09:57 AM
#35
Senior Member
CRC, Seafoam, 3M and others offer throttle body/carburetor cleaners. Do this while the engine is warm and let the solvent soak a bit...
12-18-2015, 04:39 PM
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I know what a throttle relearn is, but don't know what they call it in STAR or how to find it. Same with idle speed adjustment -- I know the old way of doing it but don't know where I'd find a setting or adjustment in STAR.
Thanks!
12-19-2015, 10:24 AM
#37
Senior Member
Thanks for the suggestion. I will perform the cleaning this weekend and report the results. One thing--I suggest against using brake or electric parts cleaners. Brake cleaner *can* attack plastic. Both are mostly alcohol and are not ideal at dissolving carbon and varnish.
CRC, Seafoam, 3M and others offer throttle body/carburetor cleaners. Do this while the engine is warm and let the solvent soak a bit...
CRC, Seafoam, 3M and others offer throttle body/carburetor cleaners. Do this while the engine is warm and let the solvent soak a bit...
At this point, I do believe that the TB or perhaps a small vacuum leak is causing the random vibration at idle. I've been to the dealer 1/2 a dozen times and all I get is "we can't find the problem". All the mounts have been replaced and idle tweaked/releanred. Oh well...
01-04-2016, 09:49 AM
#39
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09 S550, 08 Charger Srt8, 63 Ford Galaxie 500, 07 GSXR1000
Little update. finally changed all 3 mounts. (they never been changed before). Really easy if you have tools and engine lift.(with car jack it will probably lil difficult to move engine) and if someone can help you that will speed up process by 2 times !
Thank you guys for instructions ! Really helped me a lot !
!Thank you guys for instructions ! Really helped me a lot !
01-17-2016, 10:00 PM
#40
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W221 S550 4matic
Gentlemen
Have somebody found the problem? Did somebody tried throttle body cleaning?
Have the same problem. Changed all mounts, no results. I've read in a russian forum that somebody with same issue replaced the front drive axles and solved the problem with that. Any thoughts?
Have the same problem. Changed all mounts, no results. I've read in a russian forum that somebody with same issue replaced the front drive axles and solved the problem with that. Any thoughts?
01-20-2016, 01:25 AM
#41
Have somebody found the problem? Did somebody tried throttle body cleaning?
Have the same problem. Changed all mounts, no results. I've read in a russian forum that somebody with same issue replaced the front drive axles and solved the problem with that. Any thoughts?
Have the same problem. Changed all mounts, no results. I've read in a russian forum that somebody with same issue replaced the front drive axles and solved the problem with that. Any thoughts?
01-20-2016, 06:37 AM
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
There may be some relation with the front axle.
Was told once be a very senior MB tech (who now owns his own shop) that there is some sort of bearing in the front 4matic differential that can cause vibration at idle.
I know it doesn't make sense because you would think nothing is moving since the car is stationary, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. He said that even with your foot on the brake the automatic transmission never stops moving. He said if you put the car in the air on a hoist and put your foot on the brake, the wheels will turn very slowly because there is no weight of the car and friction from the ground to stop the wheels from moving. Make sense to me as I have seen american-made 4WD trucks in the air on hoists in idle, and the wheels will turn.
Was told once be a very senior MB tech (who now owns his own shop) that there is some sort of bearing in the front 4matic differential that can cause vibration at idle.
I know it doesn't make sense because you would think nothing is moving since the car is stationary, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. He said that even with your foot on the brake the automatic transmission never stops moving. He said if you put the car in the air on a hoist and put your foot on the brake, the wheels will turn very slowly because there is no weight of the car and friction from the ground to stop the wheels from moving. Make sense to me as I have seen american-made 4WD trucks in the air on hoists in idle, and the wheels will turn.
01-23-2016, 01:22 AM
#43
There may be some relation with the front axle.
Was told once be a very senior MB tech (who now owns his own shop) that there is some sort of bearing in the front 4matic differential that can cause vibration at idle.
I know it doesn't make sense because you would think nothing is moving since the car is stationary, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. He said that even with your foot on the brake the automatic transmission never stops moving. He said if you put the car in the air on a hoist and put your foot on the brake, the wheels will turn very slowly because there is no weight of the car and friction from the ground to stop the wheels from moving. Make sense to me as I have seen american-made 4WD trucks in the air on hoists in idle, and the wheels will turn.
Was told once be a very senior MB tech (who now owns his own shop) that there is some sort of bearing in the front 4matic differential that can cause vibration at idle.
I know it doesn't make sense because you would think nothing is moving since the car is stationary, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. He said that even with your foot on the brake the automatic transmission never stops moving. He said if you put the car in the air on a hoist and put your foot on the brake, the wheels will turn very slowly because there is no weight of the car and friction from the ground to stop the wheels from moving. Make sense to me as I have seen american-made 4WD trucks in the air on hoists in idle, and the wheels will turn.
03-06-2016, 12:47 AM
#44
Senior Member
Here is a thread regarding in-gear/stoplight vibration and axle shafts:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ping-halt.html
It mentions Subarus having similar issues. My research confirms that many Subarus with defective or poor-quality aftermarket axle shafts causing similar in-gear/brake applied/stoplight vibration.
The dealer is going to replace my 4Matic axle shafts this week. I'll report back....
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ping-halt.html
It mentions Subarus having similar issues. My research confirms that many Subarus with defective or poor-quality aftermarket axle shafts causing similar in-gear/brake applied/stoplight vibration.
The dealer is going to replace my 4Matic axle shafts this week. I'll report back....
05-02-2017, 11:41 AM
#45
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19 E63s, 23 M3 compX, B9 SQ5
Here is a thread regarding in-gear/stoplight vibration and axle shafts:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ping-halt.html
It mentions Subarus having similar issues. My research confirms that many Subarus with defective or poor-quality aftermarket axle shafts causing similar in-gear/brake applied/stoplight vibration.
The dealer is going to replace my 4Matic axle shafts this week. I'll report back....
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ping-halt.html
It mentions Subarus having similar issues. My research confirms that many Subarus with defective or poor-quality aftermarket axle shafts causing similar in-gear/brake applied/stoplight vibration.
The dealer is going to replace my 4Matic axle shafts this week. I'll report back....
Did they ever find the problem of your vibrations?
05-03-2017, 10:01 AM
#46
Senior Member
Sadly, disappointingly, and frustratingly, no.
They did replace the axle shafts. No change. They later replaced the front drive shaft (from a catastrophic failure while they were test driving). No change.
I spent countless hours researching and following up. In the end, MB, the local MB area tech rep, and the dealer told me that there is nothing else they can do. I was extremely fatigued and frustrated with the lack of resolution, but i had to move on with life, so I gave up.
See the attached file. I highlighted a few sections. Pay attention to pages 20 and 22. MB's own document stated that "[the 4Matic design] has a positive effect on noise and vibration comfort; on both counts, the 4MATIC models *MATCH* (emphasis added) the acknowledged high standards of the rear wheel drive S Class."
When I brought this document to their attention, all I got was
I can attest that, having sat in many W221 RWDs, none had the vibration that my car still have today.
They did replace the axle shafts. No change. They later replaced the front drive shaft (from a catastrophic failure while they were test driving). No change.
I spent countless hours researching and following up. In the end, MB, the local MB area tech rep, and the dealer told me that there is nothing else they can do. I was extremely fatigued and frustrated with the lack of resolution, but i had to move on with life, so I gave up.
See the attached file. I highlighted a few sections. Pay attention to pages 20 and 22. MB's own document stated that "[the 4Matic design] has a positive effect on noise and vibration comfort; on both counts, the 4MATIC models *MATCH* (emphasis added) the acknowledged high standards of the rear wheel drive S Class."
When I brought this document to their attention, all I got was
I can attest that, having sat in many W221 RWDs, none had the vibration that my car still have today.
11-13-2020, 12:34 PM
#47
Hi. I have solved this 4matic front driveshaft related vibration at idle mystery. Vibration occurs in D and R when you hold the break. Cause is inner cv-joint, witch is assembled wrong in cv-boot repair or similar job. There is 3 rollers witch can be assembled both ways. If those are wrong way around, they are jamming and engine vibration transfers dirrectly to front wheel and then the whole car. Right way is the lock washer outwards.
This thread put me in the right track when I troubleshooting my customers car. Thank you all, and greetings from Finland!
This thread put me in the right track when I troubleshooting my customers car. Thank you all, and greetings from Finland!
The following users liked this post:
lkchris (11-13-2020)
04-21-2021, 03:50 PM
#48
Junior Member
I have a 2007 S550 4Matic and have a bad vibration at idle.
Start the car cold.. the engine idles at the proper speed and is completely smooth. But the chassis of the car is vibrating. Feels like I'm in a tractor rather than an MB. Definitely something wrong.
Keeps doing it even when the car is warm. At traffic lights for example.
No change in Neutral or Park.
First guess was engine and transmission mounts. Replaced one engine mount (couldn't get the other one out so will have to try later) and the transmission mount.
Very very little change (almost none at all). New mounts are Corteco and are OEM so I'm sure they are the best ones I can buy.
*NOTE*: the ones I removed were also Corteco and if I'm reading the date code right, they're a year old. I just bought the car 2 months ago. Previous owner did say he replaced engine mounts but didn't say when. I guess he just did them recently!
Old mounts looked same as new. I've seen pics of collapsed mounts, even slightly worn mounts and they look different from the new ones. If I cleaned off my old ones, you couldn't tell the difference from new.
So obviously not mounts... but what's left????
I did hear from a very experienced MB tech that he runs into 4Matic bearing problems and he can rebuild the transfer case and put in a new bearing. He said it was reasonably common on this car and caused "vibration problems". He didn't say what kind of vibration.. at idle, moving, etc.
That conversation had nothing to do with my idle problem (he just mentioned it out of the blue as we were talking). But now I'm wondering if that bearing is bad and causing my problems.
I did read somewhere on a forum that "if you change engine mounts and the vibration doesn't go away, it can be the transfer case.. even at idle".
Has anyone had experience with a vibrating chassis caused by transfer case? Or anything other than mounts actually?
It seems that there are a limited number of things that can cause an idle vibration.. wheels, tires, and most of the 'moving' parts of the drivetrain are excluded easily because the car is not moving. So to me it has to be mounts or maybe 4matic.
Thoughts? Assistance? Would be appreciated!
Start the car cold.. the engine idles at the proper speed and is completely smooth. But the chassis of the car is vibrating. Feels like I'm in a tractor rather than an MB. Definitely something wrong.
Keeps doing it even when the car is warm. At traffic lights for example.
No change in Neutral or Park.
First guess was engine and transmission mounts. Replaced one engine mount (couldn't get the other one out so will have to try later) and the transmission mount.
Very very little change (almost none at all). New mounts are Corteco and are OEM so I'm sure they are the best ones I can buy.
*NOTE*: the ones I removed were also Corteco and if I'm reading the date code right, they're a year old. I just bought the car 2 months ago. Previous owner did say he replaced engine mounts but didn't say when. I guess he just did them recently!
Old mounts looked same as new. I've seen pics of collapsed mounts, even slightly worn mounts and they look different from the new ones. If I cleaned off my old ones, you couldn't tell the difference from new.
So obviously not mounts... but what's left????
I did hear from a very experienced MB tech that he runs into 4Matic bearing problems and he can rebuild the transfer case and put in a new bearing. He said it was reasonably common on this car and caused "vibration problems". He didn't say what kind of vibration.. at idle, moving, etc.
That conversation had nothing to do with my idle problem (he just mentioned it out of the blue as we were talking). But now I'm wondering if that bearing is bad and causing my problems.
I did read somewhere on a forum that "if you change engine mounts and the vibration doesn't go away, it can be the transfer case.. even at idle".
Has anyone had experience with a vibrating chassis caused by transfer case? Or anything other than mounts actually?
It seems that there are a limited number of things that can cause an idle vibration.. wheels, tires, and most of the 'moving' parts of the drivetrain are excluded easily because the car is not moving. So to me it has to be mounts or maybe 4matic.
Thoughts? Assistance? Would be appreciated!
02-06-2022, 09:45 PM
#49
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1999 CLK 320 (W208) 2008 s500 (w221)
Did throttle cleaning clear the vibes? I’m having same issue with vibrations. Axles changed, both mounts and transmission mount changed. Triple checked nothing is under stress. It’s driving me nuts.
02-08-2022, 09:44 AM
#50
I gave up at this point.
New MB engine mounts, Trans mount,
New spark plugs and filters
TB cleaned.
Not all the times, but half the times in DRIVE when stopped I get a buzz through steering wheel.
Also a light harmonic vibration when revving in neutral between 1500-2000, very slight.
Few mechanics told me I am nuts and its an old car. MB shops by the way.
I have yet to find a shop with star that can check if one of the coils is weak. Or TQ is tired.
New MB engine mounts, Trans mount,
New spark plugs and filters
TB cleaned.
Not all the times, but half the times in DRIVE when stopped I get a buzz through steering wheel.
Also a light harmonic vibration when revving in neutral between 1500-2000, very slight.
Few mechanics told me I am nuts and its an old car. MB shops by the way.
I have yet to find a shop with star that can check if one of the coils is weak. Or TQ is tired.
