BOTUS

Toyota
Yaris GR or the GT86

red996

Lol. I am not a huge fan of the Lexus brand in general. I don't like the styling of most of their cars and those other things that looked like lifted mini vans. Yea, they are reliable. But, this is a Mercedes forum so.......I would take an S63 W222 coupe over most cars any day. I remember when Lexus made all of their cars in Japan and I loved the styling of the 90's stuff. WTF happened. Also don't get me started on modern BMW styling. Simply awful.

CQHall

Says the guy who picks a usename of a....[checks notes]...Porsche.

😂

BOTUS

lexus don't make a porsche compatible car - only porche has the brains to build what we need, ferrari try and much of their stuff is worth owning these days (which between 1984 to 2008 it certainly wasn't), but ferrari have now added 300k to the price making them a no.

lexus make ultra reliable personal transport, not a car - sadly they are really only competent on freshly ironed roads, but with an incredible stereo, which means its probably a more suitable thing to use to just sit in fake traffic jams - as your governments have sold all your rights in partnership with corporate greed and you aren't allowed to have fun or any freedom any longer...

of course japan being a little late to the ranks of filth wrecking the world, have in the Toyota brand (which of course is the same family owned business as lexus), had a new CEO (sadly he just stood down) Mr Toyoda, a true petrol head, and he set them off in the right direction once again - hence their current range of affordable fun cars includes one toyota rally car, one subaru rear drive toy and one BMW Z4, the latter two come with Toyota bumpers, trim, badging and electrics....

as for merc they did a rip off of a 911 just a few years back - but true to form added 1000kg of lard, dodgy merc electrics, so much bling anyone normal will run a mile just so they can avoid looking at it, and like all the current stuff, a fragile engine and gearbox with the whole car linked to 30 years of designed to fail engineering talent - so that's a no, to anyone that understands why forums like this exist !!!



.

chassis

With you on this.

chassis

I need to spend more time in this part of the site. Good perspectives here.

Serhan

Savagegeese comparison of Hatchbacks:

BOTUS

interesting link - quite a good test - naff music, like the review of oily bits and info about controls and stereo,
But taking off the SPECIFIC tyres that the car was developed with is UTTER inanity, and shows they have NO IDEA what they are talking about POINT !!!!!

tyres are not just round and black - they are persevere weird things and during intensive development and tuning of the entire cars suspension and handling characteristics, they spend more time with an individual tyre company designing a model specific tyre that best suit the very large window of needs a car tyre must have. Nuances in steering feel, on limit safety and general enjoyment in the entire car come from the huge effects of the tyres the manu chose to fit at build.

you might like x brand because you are a biased fool with no real understanding of anything (that's fine, we as a society allow that) - but the manu didn't drive a million miles in testing trying everything out there for the hell of it - they quickly realised a number of compromises in the vehicle mean some tyres behave so poorly it falls way outside the safety and other performance criteria they as a manu need to respect. So they narrow down the fitment list and err towards one that best suits the car - IF they still have concerns - most vehicles these days will get a model specif tyre brand and build fitment where some elements of the tyre build we are too stupid to really understand, will get unique enhancements. This brings the car easily inside the safety and performance envelope the dev engineers where looking for. Overall giving the car that last bit of polish to make it drive and behave well in more conditions and driving styles than we understand

To utterly disregard this key element of car design, and the specifics of individual tyre brand behaviour on a given model with its dramatic effects on suspension, handling, comfort and safety and to not understand how they are development in tandem - by fitting any old matching trash on all the cars in the shootout - means the video should be removed from youtube - its all invalid drivel - and the children presenting are just clueless morons that shouldn't be allowed on the road....

BOTUS

that said honda know what they are doing (except for styling) and the yaris (that is what that odd USA only corolla really is underneath), was actually meant for this - NOT driving a smooth road circuit


and tarmac sections like this

ChrisHimself

Ive owned a daily driven 997 with 140k on the clock, feel free to ask me anything public or otherwise. Cars are bulletproof, have great engineering. The parts and upkeep aren't expensive if you go with OEM parts versus Porsche brand. It's on all new mounts, suspension, arms, starter/alt/battery cable. I have the stupid $1000+ cables and shifter, Feal 441 suspension corner balanced, and most importantly Akebono brake pads so I don't go through rotors every 2 years anymore.

The pitfalls are if you don't catch the IMS thing within a rather limited time frame (it makes awful noise), a rear main seal leak, if youre not good about oil changes and you have premature guide/variocam solenoid wear stuff can get expensive. Oil is always the first layer of insurance on any car for many, many reasons.

The cooling system is also INCREDIBLY time consuming to service, the coolant reservoir basically requires half an engine removal, there are about 20 hoses under the car, radiators are behind the front bumper and not in a good way.

The rest of it is very nice though, well thought out. Tire bill is expensive unless you compromise to a UHP All Season which is fine for 90% of the time.

CQHall

For me, as a "big guy" (6'1" / 185cm, wide shoulders, ex-football player type of build), the 991.1 and earlier models simply feel too small for me. I also look too big when inside of them.

You know that look your wife/husband/gf/bf/whatever gives you when you squeeze into those pants that don't fit the same as they used to? That's the look my wife gave me when I asked her how I looked in the car.

Also, in the 997 and 991.1 that I drove, my left shoulder was pinned against the door during the drives. I don't recall feeling this in the 992 that I sat in. I didn't drive it because I didn't want to consider a $90K car.

If they made a 911W (wide), then it might work for me 😂

EDIT: My 970.2 Panamera fit great, BTW.

ChrisHimself

as someone in the 240lb range, size 36 pants I no longer fit the ideal image of a Porsche driver. Team AMG for me. In order to get my money you must respect my aptitude for consuming food.

also with used Porsche prices being what they are you might be better off plus if theres an upcoming real estate dump, there is better money to be spent out there

CQHall

Yeah, my weight is creeping up on me too, bro, hahahaha! I'm about 20lbs heavier than you!

For decades, I thought to myself, "If Jesse Ventura can fit into a 911, I can, too!"

6'2" and 250lbs = 188cm and 113kg

For those not familiar, he's a famous wrestler and politician...and was huge in his prime:







I never realized how narrow the 911s are inside (I don't have lots of experience with them in general).

In the past 2-3 weeks I've also sat in F80 M3, F82 M4, G82 M4, and an AMG GT Coupé and all four don't give that cramped narrow feeling that I get in the 911s.

BOTUS

the old 911 being narrow, was one of the key reasons they were so quick... they fitted on the old European roads where you had a chance to drive quick...

side impact protection in the last 20 years had added 20" width to each vehicle..... and now they don't fit on narrow roads - its so bad there isn't room for my motorbike and the lunatic in a new car using 2/3 of my lane as well as most of theirs too....

to give a tiny example when the fun started, the small mk2 focus from 2005, is 6" wider than the old 2003 e class w211

hai00

LC500 vs 911, I've consider one vs the other for a long time. Driven both quite a bit, and currently care take of lc500.
As mentioned by other before, 911 is about nimble and corner performance, real handing (enjoyable for very fit or younger drivers, unless only want the 911 heritage). It is very low to the ground, and getting in and out is a chore for older people with join paint. One time, I went to a mercedes dealer to buy a used 911, a tall and chubby salesmen got stuck in driver seat for sometime. It feels special to sit in, especially the costly interior trims. more of a feel good car than a comfortable commute car.

LC500 is the typical mercedes SL of sport car, big, loud, good straight line, and heavyyyy. reasonable handling to enjoy on the street once in awhile, or some canyon road. Base level trim interior looks as good as top trim 911. Comfortable commute car.

At the moment, I would not pick 911 or lc500. Taycan would be my choice. Good on street performance, beauty of 911 and then some, interior, tech. No smog check, oil change or check engine light

CQHall

Yeah, the Taycan seems to slot right in-between the Panamera and 911 in terms of size. Kind of in a "Not too big. Not too small. Just right." sort of way.

I've never sat in one before and I don't think that I'm ready to take on a fully electric car yet. I don't have the infrastructure at home and I don't have the patience to spend time at charging stations throughout day/road trips.

ChrisHimself

just two fat buds, complaining about German car fitment. I'm finally home here.

I know you're just getting out of the S63 to avoid those $1899 brake rotors LOL

just wait til the AMG GT-S hits 60k used so you can have nightmares about your transmission grenading or rear main seal getting pushed out every 20 minutes

CQHall

Hahahaha!

I'm pretty sure every car mentioned here has some sort of expensive items. The LC seems to be one-off for every damn thing.

I'm spoiled by the S63 really. If I had a S550, it'd be an easier jump to another car. But, having all of the power and luxury makes it a great car.

Lately, the F8x M3 and M4 have been leading contenders. But, they look like Subaru STIs with interiors to match. They are within the budge and I fit them well. They have impeccable power and handling, but I can't get over how they look like they are for someone half my age. Not to mention that finding a clean, unmolested one is near impossible...even with fewer than 30K miles. And the current gen models are $80-100K.

wildta

Carwow has a video of a tuned m3 vs stock...

CQHall

Good stuff.

When the M cars went turbo, they became really, really easy to tune. You can add 100HP or more with just a tune that only cost $300-500 and you can install it yourself in 15 minutes in the garage/parking lot. Not to mention all of the aftermarket bits the are available.

Don't get me wrong, I like tuning and (some) aftermarket bits. But, I like buying bone stock cars because there's no telling what the previous guy did or how they abused it. And it seems like the BMW M3/M4 crowd beats up on their cars more than the Porsche 911 or Lexus LC crowd. The holy grail would be the 1-owner car where that owner was a middle-aged person who didn't tune the car and took it to the dealer on schedule. But, that's very, very difficult to find, and if I do, they'll be a $10-15K premium added.

Viper98912

Page 4 of this thread got really funny, thanks for the laughs folks.

Now in terms of the vehicles....

I'm not a 911 owner, but I've always had a special inkling for a 911 Turbo one day. Something about that powertrain and those huge vents/nostrils on the sides of the widebody....yea.... But nonetheless, they are very expensive for what you get, and in general, I find the interior designs to be fairly poor, with exception of the latest generation. Everything else was poor in execution in my opinion and just looked overly bland. The only thing worthwhile was if you got the sport chrono package (or whatever they call the nice gauges), which were an expensive option on top of the expensive car. But again, I'm all about how the interior design looks. I also find it funny that someone made a comment earlier that a 911 is a young persons car, which is exactly the opposite of what they normally are. Like Corvettes, the 911 is probably #2 on the list of typical old-man cars; as if it's some sort of mid-life crisis or old-man success car (kids are gone/in college, you've worked hard in your life, etc). Which, there's nothing wrong with that, but yes, those sports cars sure are uncomfortable... Funny thing is, when I bought my dream car, I actually bought it from a guy who was looking to get the money to put into a red 911 convertible. And yes, he was in his late 50's or almost 60, and he freely admitted that he was fitting the profile. But it was one of his dream cars, so he was going to do it. Nonetheless, if you buy the 911 (which the last two pages now say you're not), the reason you buy it is not because it's a logical decision, it's because you want to have the satisfaction of having owned and experienced one. And frankly, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm in that boat myself. So kudos to you if you do pick one up, even if you only keep it and enjoy it for a short while (and inevitably, lose money on it). The satisfaction and enjoyment is worthwhile.

In regards to the LC500, there's a pretty nice one near me that's daily driven. I personally have never liked this generation of Lexi (personal design opinion), but the LC500 does appear to offer a lot of great things in their package.

I'll always think that when the R230 SL came out, it was a game changer. The car was just absolutely amazing, for everything. Now we all know about the reliability issues, etc, which is where the R231 now really shines. Pick up one of the facelift (aka the non-ugly ones) from 2017 and above, and make it an SL63 or 65 with the hydraulic suspension, and you have a combination of all kinds of awesome. I don't have an R231 but have driven a couple SL63's, and they were fantastic. And yes, I love a good convertible hardtop Mercedes.

Given that you're coming from a 221 S63, I personally think you may have an issue with going down to something like a Subaru or Toyota or VW. Sure, they are fun cars, but you truly need to see it as a fun toy car that you're looking to toss around. Because once you don't see it that way, you'll want to hop back in your Mercedes, which does everything those cars can do (bloated-ly) but in comfort and luxury. So when you're at that point, you might as well go a little upmarket and look at a Vantage, R8, Lotus, 8 series (are those down in price yet?), F-type R, SL63.

[x] subscribed

CQHall

I used to think that the 911 was a mid-life crisis car, too...when I was younger. But, now I get it.

For me, and what I imagine a lot of German car enthusiasts like me, the 911 was the car that we lusted after when we were younger. Most of us can't afford it until we are later in age and deeper in our careers where we make more money and can afford it. So, the dream stays alive until the wallet can reasonably afford it. But, now that we can afford it, middle-age has taken its toll. And even for guys (and ladies) smaller than me, it's not fun to squeeze and roll in and out of one of these or endure one for a long road trip...and pay 60, 80, 100 thousand dollars for the privilege of doing so!

On a related note: After owning two Lexus vehicles, I totally get why Lexus is popular now. They aren't exciting, but they do the basics very, very well. And the dealership experience (service and parts departments) is head and shoulders better than any Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Subaru, VW dealership that I've dealt with over the years when supporting cars that my family own. With all of those other dealerships, there's always some sense of dread about the news you are going to get from them in terms of what's wrong?, are they making **** up?, are these parts prices jacked through the roof?, etc... with Lexus you really get a sense that they are trying to help you at a fair price.

Maybe the 911 is one of those "Never meet your heroes" things where they are better left as a dream...which may also explain why they show up on the market with 30,000 miles with 5 owners in the history. These folks buy them, drive them a bit, realize that they they aren't great at being comfortable, then sell them to the next dreamer (and get most of their money back).

Viper98912

Completely agree with everything here. Years ago I would rag on my 23 year old coworker who loved riding in his Camry. He would tell me "dude, it's just so comfortable". Meanwhile, I'm in my sports sedan. Fast forward a decade or so and now every car I've had I always keep the suspension in soft mode. I've realized that I want a strong powerful engine, with a transmission that shifts quick but doesn't slam you in the seat, and a suspension that floats along the road. I'm done with the days of a harsh riding car, and I'm not even in my prime of middle age yet (or maybe I am and I'm not willing to accept it? )

For material things (such as a car), I don't live the mantra of never meet your heroes. If I can reasonably afford it (aka, I'm not out shopping for the next 812 Competizione, ....yet....), then I do it. These things aren't logical, they're emotional. And I'm not going to go through life busting my butt to have my hard earned savings do nothing for me. So if you want it, go be that 6th owner. But if you don't want it and you're just thinking, "eh, it'd maybe be nice", then no, don't do it and wait for the thing that you want.

But that's my personal $0.025.

vettebk

After thinking I was sick with a fatal problem in 1999, I booked a rez to Las Vegas. I always wanted to drive a Ferrari so I rented one from Exotic Rent-a-car. F355 red of course. In those days I only had 100/300K auto insurance so they refused my rental. I called my insurance agent and over the phone bought a rider for 300/500K, he gave me a binder (it cost $65, remember it was 1999) number. They took AMEX (remember I thought I was a terminal patient, so I wasn't planning on paying any AMEX bills). It cost $586 per day. I took it out to the Red Rock desert and put my foot down and just held it. It was around 155 mph that the front end started to lift a little. Just a few inches but increasing as the speed increased. I shut it down at 170 mph. It was a little unsettling with the nose up. But the singing exhaust notes were very cool.

I took it back to Las Vegas Boulevard to let the pretty girls have an eyeful. It promptly over heated in traffic. I dropped it off at the end of the day. I had no plans to pay AMEX.

The next day, my physician called me and said they had figured out my medical problem (hyperthyroidism) and I could take a pill every day and live like a normal person. He said, you're going to live. So I had to pay that AMEX bill after all. But that was one fast car and I think about it every day.

CQHall

[takes notes]
[Get AMEX.]
[Google: exotic car rentals near me]
[Google: highways with long straights]

Hahahaha! That's a great story. I'm glad that you are still with us!