S-Class (W221) 2007-2013: S 320 CDI, S 350, S 450, S 500, S 550, S 420 CDI, S 600

M273 unstable idling performance

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old 07-11-2024, 04:47 PM
  #101  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by kevm14
I thought he had a new intake manifold.
Yes manifold is new
Old 07-11-2024, 04:50 PM
  #102  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by Plato
I am awaiting for new throttle body. Will post results when it arrive.
Throttle body was recently replaced with new original Bosch. No results.

I have another idea related to possible low level changes in ME module firmware. I will come back with more details and tests results after I flash it with virgin firmware to exclude any issues on software level.

PS: ME module was recently replaced with brand new but I made a low level clone of my old module to have 2 plug-n-play interchangeable modules (switch between two at anytime without any coding).

Last edited by Plato; 07-11-2024 at 04:53 PM.
Old 07-13-2024, 09:22 AM
  #103  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
kevm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,823
Received 651 Likes on 448 Posts
04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
Originally Posted by retna7
The only thing that seems off is the left and right bank ignition angle settings intermittently jump out of specified value (video) but I have no idea how to address it.

https://youtu.be/08uo6PsvpBc
Based on previous experience, ignition timing could be jumping around as a reaction to idle speed variation. It is very common for ignition timing to be used as a means for quick and fine idle speed control so it could be reacting, rather than causing the issue. There is probably a diagnostic mode to freeze ignition timing and you could observe idle speed.
The following 2 users liked this post by kevm14:
Plato (07-14-2024), retna7 (07-15-2024)
Old 07-13-2024, 09:23 AM
  #104  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
kevm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,823
Received 651 Likes on 448 Posts
04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
Originally Posted by WRC-LVR
Have you checked the 02 sensors or replaced them recently? If not maybe its time for that..

Aso has the HPFP driven off the camshaft been looked at? If the oil pressure solenoid on the front of the engine is opening and closing when it shouldnt, that affects the HPFP and could explain the intermittent timing spike and rought idling.
Try un plugging that solenoid on the bottom front of the engine and see if the intermittent issue goes away and the idle smooths out. Calibenzdriver states it can take a few drive cycles for the ecu to relearn since ithe oil pressure affects lots of systems.

Plus that is a free mod. You might take the time to read the oil solenoids unplugging thread or PM Calibenzdriver too.
M273 thread. No HPFP or oil solenoid.
Old 07-13-2024, 03:19 PM
  #105  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
BOTUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,490
Received 863 Likes on 721 Posts
S500
Originally Posted by Plato
How is gearbox related to floating on idle speed?

if its in Drive or Reverse can be - not in P or N

the normal failure mode for a worn TC lock up clutch is to leave the engine partially connected to the road wheels.....
Old 07-14-2024, 06:16 AM
  #106  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by kevm14
Based on previous experience, ignition timing could be jumping around as a reaction to idle speed variation. It is very common for ignition timing to be used as a means for quick and fine idle speed control so it could be reacting, rather than causing the issue. There is probably a diagnostic mode to freeze ignition timing and you could observe idle speed.
Yeah was also thinking this is a reaction. As well as voltage floating during the engine float.

Last edited by Plato; 07-14-2024 at 06:18 AM.
Old 07-14-2024, 06:18 AM
  #107  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by BOTUS
if its in Drive or Reverse can be - not in P or N

the normal failure mode for a worn TC lock up clutch is to leave the engine partially connected to the road wheels.....
The issue is only on idle speed
Old 07-14-2024, 06:23 AM
  #108  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by kevm14
M273 thread. No HPFP or oil solenoid.
Sorry I cannot find any thread related to solenoids on m273 at w221. Could you please share the link or exact connector location?
Old 07-14-2024, 08:03 AM
  #109  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
kevm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,823
Received 651 Likes on 448 Posts
04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
Yes that's because it doesn't apply. That was my comment.
Old 07-14-2024, 09:32 AM
  #110  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Ok I have played a bit with solenoids. I suppose that under solenoid you mean camshaft magnets. There are 4 of them in the front of engine.




Before disconnecting them lambda correction looks like this... As you can see you actually can see how engine is floating even without hearing it. Green and Red lines represent front O2 sensors and floating. Blue and Yellows represent rear O2 sensors and their graph is too "correctly" repeating sinusoid.



When I unplug all or ANY one of the them the floating is gone. Front O2 graph stays straight as it should be. Rear O2 become more native without a "loop".




Previously I was able to get idle speed straight when I was disconnecting different electronics. For example unplugging rear O2 sensors also return non-floating engine idle speed. So well I am wondering if this is the same case, like unplugging those solenoids put engine in a "fault" mode and that is why it start work correctly? Or the issue is in solenoids? I am a bit sceptic about replacing them cause I already replace O2 for example and didn't help... while disconnecting them made an effect. How to check these solenoids if they work properly or not?

Last edited by Plato; 07-14-2024 at 09:34 AM.
The following users liked this post:
retna7 (07-15-2024)
Old 07-15-2024, 03:42 PM
  #111  
Senior Member
 
retna7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 275
Received 75 Likes on 52 Posts
2000 E430 Sport
^ Replaced all four of mine on the M273 and had no impact on the problem.

I'm switching spark plugs from Bosch to NGK (NGK PLKR 7A) per the owner's manual. Different resistor values between the two.

Will report back on whether or not this has an impact.

Lower resistance from the NGK plugs should reduce stress on the coils if nothing else.

Last edited by retna7; 07-15-2024 at 03:49 PM.
Old 07-15-2024, 04:53 PM
  #112  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by retna7
^ Replaced all four of mine on the M273 and had no impact on the problem.

I'm switching spark plugs from Bosch to NGK (NGK PLKR 7A) per the owner's manual. Different resistor values between the two.

Will report back on whether or not this has an impact.

Lower resistance from the NGK plugs should reduce stress on the coils if nothing else.
When I listen how your engine works I do not hear any floating. It seems we have different issues probably. Could you please send a screenshot of lambda correction while engine running in idle speed, warmed up to 90+ C and you can hear the floating. Will be very interesting to combine with mine graphs. Graphs are available in ME module menu on xentry.
Old 07-15-2024, 05:18 PM
  #113  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
BOTUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,490
Received 863 Likes on 721 Posts
S500
the ac has a variable compressor - the alternator will vary its load, and the power steering fluid is probably filthy - just rag the thing to death before the next expensive issues means u scrap it ???
Old 07-16-2024, 09:01 AM
  #114  
Senior Member
 
retna7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 275
Received 75 Likes on 52 Posts
2000 E430 Sport
Originally Posted by Plato
When I listen how your engine works I do not hear any floating. It seems we have different issues probably. Could you please send a screenshot of lambda correction while engine running in idle speed, warmed up to 90+ C and you can hear the floating. Will be very interesting to combine with mine graphs. Graphs are available in ME module menu on xentry.
Old 07-17-2024, 04:02 PM
  #115  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Originally Posted by Plato
Throttle body was recently replaced with new original Bosch. No results.

I have another idea related to possible low level changes in ME module firmware. I will come back with more details and tests results after I flash it with virgin firmware to exclude any issues on software level.

PS: ME module was recently replaced with brand new but I made a low level clone of my old module to have 2 plug-n-play interchangeable modules (switch between two at anytime without any coding).
This step is done. No effect.
Old 07-17-2024, 04:03 PM
  #116  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 54
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
W221 S500
Thank you so much! It looks like xentry has a different interpretation for graphs. May I ask you to do the same in DAS please?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: M273 unstable idling performance



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:16 AM.