Hello!

Seems like soon or later many S class owners comes to decision to step up to the newer S class or to try different brand. The isuse with owning S class is that everything else you try to "switch/replace" with is most of the time DOWNGRADING rather than UPGRADE.

I feel like i need to change my current S 500 (W221) . Dont really like the W223, seems like W222 is better option, but still it doesnt attract me so much.

Was thinking of Porsche Panamera or Bentley Continental / Flying Spur. I dont really like newer cars or last models and so on. It's not so much of "i cannot afford it" i could gather the money, but then it feels like they are not really build to last. Im not fan of a plastic. I simple love the feelings of wood, leather, steal, gold and silver. I owner fewer stuff around the house, but they are at their finest quality. Its giving me a pleasure to sit in my car without even driving it. Everything is just master piece - cant replace that.

I dont have money for Rolls Royce even if its the cheaper one, but i think thats the final stage.

What was your "upgrade" or what do you think is the next level?
I heard from other that is the - Porsche. And doesnt really matter if you go with Panamera or you would like differnet feeling and you got the Cayenne.

Greetings!

 

Bentley yes, Panamera will be more of a sporty side than an S-Class, although Flying Spur is slightly on the sporty side as well. If you don't hate SUVs, full sized Range Rover will be as close as an S-Class as it gets.

 

I came to w222 ownership after 14 years in a Bentley (real one, Crewe built 1997). Do not kid yourself into thinking a modern Bentley is an upgrade. Its a horribly complex Audi with crazy expensive parts, if you can even get them. Interior quality took a big dive from the old Bentleys and the quality is only skin deep. Go in with both eyes open and be prepared to spend a lot to keep it in top shape.

I love the w222 and am not sure if there is anything better anywhere near the price. A Panamera would be way more fun to drive but that is a much smaller car to be fair. Not same league....

 

all RR are just a seven series BMW

nothing lasts these days except the one brand that from birth was and I believe remains made and built properly by grown ups - the only issues is, in Japan they iron smooth the roads everyday, so they never understood anything whatsoever about suspension technology - which means your new Lexus will last forever but its a bit brittle on the suspension front

any junk made in Germany will last less time that it takes to delete this post

 

Thanks both for sharing your opinions and experiences, reason why I mentioned Range Rover because of this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...e-s-class.html

 

the brand outside Lexus doesn’t matter at all these days - they are nearly all equally terrible - they are only designed to last 3 years trouble free, after that the economic running cost escalate wildly
(which is why most still only get a 3 year warranty) - when they could make cars virtually 100% fault free for 10 years these days (or 25 as they still do if a Lexus),

sure the car will still exist - but may need a new engine any time from year 4 (check out start stop and weaker ideas for the drive for the camshafts and chocolate pistons on most new stuff), gearbox fun before year 7 and untold agro, radiators, AC condensers and turbo intercoolers where VAG make from budget bacofoil and fail at 3 years - with other non driveline faults playing up and modules dying - its all because they plan for them to be in a skip really fast - which also means they can save money on paint and trim quality - which soon looks naff after a few years

the idea escalating on an ever faster time to death for the last 20 years, has been for the senior managers to lease a car for 3 years and then its thrown on to the second idiot who gets in debt before its scrapped by year 6, or some fool ends up with a life of hell trying to keep it going as the third owner

its as simple as that - 4 years of almost reliable use then just scrap it - is the timeline the manufacturer is really working too with new car sales today....

it really erks me so few can understand the economics of it - governments are in this too - so no legislation is going to harm the manufacturers - why wouldn't they do it - the company makes money on new car sales - so make them die and put the money in your pocket

likely the real driver (just as NASA mentioned in 2013) is that asteroid will get us in 7 years - so rev up the pace of tech and manufacture - so they can get rich enough to either hide in a big hole or fly to Mars ...can you think of a better reason not to do ANYTHING at all on climate change ? even though anyone normal can see that serous issue from one month to the next, just by looking out the window now and then - the only thing that computes, is people don’t seem able to remember how the weather was just 6 years ago - every day today, is not what it was like for 40 years prior

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This will not be a popular opinion here, but you need to drive an electric Mercedes. Get a Maybach ev if you want the best interior, although I know everyone hates the shape. A luxury ice car will feel ridiculous after you experience the silence and power of a high end ev. In my small sample experience, everyone who has driven our EQS 580 has said it is the most amazing car they've ever driven, and two people went on to buy one. It is worth a test drive, even if you think you don't want an ev (assuming you have not driven one).

 

Going to a Panamera from an S-Class will be a culture shock, not in a good way. They are different cars. If Panamera has not always been on your future ownership list, don’t buy one.

Agree with BOTUS that German cars are junk and designed to last a bit less than the warranty period.

Porsche has an undeserved positive reliability reputation - this is based mainly on 911. The SUVs are garbage reliability-wise, and these are the cars that people put miles on and rely upon for daily transportation.

BMW today is in the “OK” reliability rating, but I recently experienced a cooling system failure at <100k miles on what I had considered a reliable B46 and a friend just had a $9k out of warranty front differential replacement in a recent model X5.

German = junk. But fun.

 

Guess sadly this is why people lease cars... in a nutshell.

I mean, I own my cars as I don't like leasing but that is how the industry is, isn't it?

 

Well, didn't know the B48 and B58 is affected by those issues.

 

mate has a Volvo S60 4x4 hybrid thing - weirdly the local dealership must hate volvo as they had been doing loads of warranty stuff just for fun without him asking... at service they were asking questions how do you find XYZ - Oh, OK we'll replace it under warranty - must have had $20k worth of work in the first 3 years - now its hit year 4 the electric rear axel has just died (like it has on everyone single one they have sold) they said to him we'll meet 80% of the $6k cost and he just said how about you'll meet 100% and walked off

lucky enough for him its a company car - so he doesn't care - the other thing was he gave up using the radar cruise - purely because at one junction on his trip to work he says it can't cope the thing just goes mad and tries to crash every time (for UK people - M25 anti-clock on to East bound M4 near LHR)


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On the X5 it is the front differential that failed, so technically not a B58 issue. German junk.

The B46 (B48) cooling problem is well known. Complex oil filter housing + oil cooler assembly fails and makes a big mess plus engine overheating, at less than 100k miles. German junk.

On the Volkswagen EA839 V6 and EA825 V8 the water pumps commonly fail <50k miles. German junk.

 

The cooling problem on the B48 does not affect the B58 though? Although I heard they share many components, just with two less cylinders?

 

I feel nothing special about Rolls Royce cars not even Bentleys . I have driven various cars and to me S Class is the best car ,I am not saying the most quality one . Well, Rolls Royce could sit and stay there that's it . Built quality and quietness are two things that slightly improved over a W222 S Class .However, interior is too simple whereas S Class feels like a car of another planet . I like gadgetry and S Class in that price range gives the most equipment you could ever wish for .
Don't tell me that Rolls Royce Owners are beyond a certain age and they don't care about those things . Yes, it could be but center console lacks of stuff .
I used to dream of having a Rolls Royce Silver Spur III but it literally Dawned on me (pun intended as Silver Dawn was a model in Rolls Royce family as well ) that Rolls Royce is not a perfect and quite boring car . My dad's Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham rules the roost after W222

 

I think you thoughts on a RR are along way behind.... they are BMWs assembled in a new factory 200 miles south of RR's original home - but in 25 years they have thrown the kitchen sink at development, listened to customers and whilst BMWs its one with design, build, tech and trim upgrade x1000 - to me they are pig ugly but they are also 100 times more refined and better made than any Merc ever was. And do actually drive like the name and reputation suggests

Bentley has been a totally separate car for about 25 years and were to all intents and purposes a bespoke Audi A8 - but as assembled in the UK the senior VAG leadership team have to fly in and get picked up from the airport - where over twenty years they finally learned what every motoring journalist has been screaming at them - the car's suspension was one of the worst in the world. But today Audi understand how to make wheels go up and down.... mainly because Britain has lost its way, and we have some of the worse roads anywhere in the world. The other advantage on cabin ambience, Bentley is still the original RR factory and staff - and Bentley have invested crazy money on updating, whilst maintaining the individual customisation that was always a hallmark

Yes from 1980 to 2005 both RR and Bentley had run out of ideas, investment, and failed to keep pace with the rest of the world, and were making pretty tired cars... But that has changed
Mercedes are taxis - the E class are literally Taxis, and the S class is only for transporting corrupt politicians - whereas both RR and Bentley are now for the crooks that tell the idiots in merc what to do



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just saw an article on US tariffs (25% just added on European junk), I guess details below all made up, and I didn't notice the local big manus position (no doubt its terrible), for example I saw a bit a few weeks back - GM Pistons needed for engines in a factory near Chicago go 6 times across the boarders of Canada and Mexico - some lunacy aluminium smelted in USA shipped to Canada to cast the piston, then goes to Mexico for machining then back and forth four times - till ready - I guess - by then, a Piston (with rings) and a con rod ready for a USA slave to throw in some joke casting ready to self destruct by 2028,

the tariffs bit claimed
81% of a tesla is made in USA
63 % of a Honda
29 % of a Toyota
26% of a Nissan

so one Japanese company has morals and the others like shipping

 

And Ford is 80% built in the US. They just don't make cars anymore, they make SUVs and trucks; because that is all that will sell in the U.S. right now.

I didn't understand the tariffs either. If the enemy is China, how does pissing on Canada or Mexico help?

But the NAFTA allowed a big hole in the free trade concept and China is, in fact, sending all the reagents to Mexico who complete the production/manufacturing step and claim it is now a North American product which escapes any tariff. The result is a $172 Billion trade deficit in 2024 with Mexico and $63 Billion with Canada and $295 Billion with China. So we are talking about a need for some adjustment to trade and NAFTA.

All of this because Americans wanted $14 sneakers. We gave away manufacturing jobs and we got cheap shoes.

Sorry for my soapbox but had to add my two cents before some politician stops making pennies.

 

And, of course, the trade deficit with the UK in 2024 was £25.1 billion.

 

the idea is you're about to get your country back (a certain little place has been running it for 108 years) he thus needs to play some games to reduce the scale of the global banking implosion - its also why UK and EU are desperately trying get WW3 going properly - enough disruption you won't notice the slight off hand when they try to take it back again

ever heard of April the 2nd when you originally took control in 1772 then lost it in a load of smoke and mirrors between 1886 - 1913 the idea is a second attempt with a new 2nd April liberation day

 

 

Yup, what is not talked about is we have a massive trade deficit with China because we buy their junk by the cargo ship, of stuff like $14 sneakers, fueled by personal debt. Does anyone ever stop to ask themselves how we managed to get by forty years ago without Amazon dropping something off at our home twice per day? We all have more stuff than we could ever possible need or use. So many good things would happen if the US population started to save again rather than spend every last dollar plus another 50% on credit. It's the elephant in the room that no one has noticed, let alone addressed.

 

Yes, I am sorry to say that America is affluent and in decline. Buy gold and silver. The dollar is burnt toast. Is this how Rome died?

Murica.

 

When we buy from them it is good for our economy and security. Now they have us dollars they eventually will use to buy from us. They don't want anything bad to happen to us, aa they want to be able to use the dollars that they have

 

many seem to be missing the point - you weren't alone all, "western civilisations" have been on the same 120 year to death timeline - the country was deliberately set into massive decline - closure of industry, collapsing pay for normal people, infrastructure decline, a huge drug problem, no education, and a lack of moral and societal cohesion....

the best bit the fake media (who's pay is literally unbelievable) has marketed lies for the same 100 years, the food industry has been filling your groceries with poison, and the medical fraternity have been keeping you just sick enough to steal a lot of the money - and the really odd bit - very few of you noticed all the rest of the money was handed out to discredit the USA in the eyes of the rest of the world - by the European elites that have been running your country for the same 120 years all along.... yet the marketing teams (in one has to agree was a well played game) have hidden all of it from you and made a huge number believe the one guy trying to fix it is the ONLY problem you have....

I guess on this forum - the ave pay rates means you perhaps unknowingly most have been on the other side of the street where it all seemed perfectly OK ?

 

Totally right BOTUS, as usual, spot on. And I take some responsibility as a citizen to subscribing to the "free trade" school (with a powerful Navy) for the last fifty years or so. But as a senior, I watched free trade reduce our manufacturing sector employment and lived through an unprecedented period where we issued U.S. bonds like water to pay for the trade deficits and the Federal deficits all resulting in a plummeting dollar over that period. It is indeed lucky the Chinese and Japanese who hold 15% of the US bond paper haven't cashed in.

Since I am a senior I won't be around for very long. But IMO, we are all witnessing the peak of the American empire, now inflecting downward in a spiral of higher inflation and reduced incomes. Perhaps the tariff war and the bluster will work in the U.S.. Personally, I would prefer a more civilized and courteous negotiation into what I prefer to call "Fair Trade" (with a Powerful Navy). I'd rather see him approach Canada and ask for adjustments in their tariffs that would result in less U.S. trade deficit rather than tit-for-tat tariff threats that only disrupt discussion.

And I worry over politics that spills over into an Automobile chat with members I consider to be valuable friends.