Bilstein experiences W221
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 109
Likes: 92
2006 S350L
Bilstein experiences W221
Hello,
I have recently rebuilt my front & rear Airmatic struts in my W221 S350L and have zero interest in swapping them.
I have read, and I'm sure as well, that ABC suspension is softer & better overall than the Airmatic I have.
I am however curious, about the Bilstein Airmatic struts *(front & rear) for the W221. Before I rebuilt my Airmatics, I was seriously considering buying the B4 Airmatics from Bilstein, however I just didn't want to risk it so I stayed original.
My questions:
* People that value soft, quality ride, and want to retain the original experience - how do you see the Bilstein B4's ?
* If anyone can objectively compare ABC vs Bilstein B4 vs Airmatic original, any opinion would be valuable
My experience with Bilstein:
* I had Bilstein B4's on several BMW's of my past, and I found them very good, much better than the Sachs
* I had Bilstein B6 on an E39 and an E38, and they were obnoxious to me
* I also had Bilstein on my old W123 25 years ago, and they were great
I'm not interested in doing any job like this now, but I *am* certainly curious to see if anyone here has gone down the Airmatic/Bilstein B4 route, and I'm curious to see how you guys felt about them,
All the best & thanks in advance!
I have recently rebuilt my front & rear Airmatic struts in my W221 S350L and have zero interest in swapping them.
I have read, and I'm sure as well, that ABC suspension is softer & better overall than the Airmatic I have.
I am however curious, about the Bilstein Airmatic struts *(front & rear) for the W221. Before I rebuilt my Airmatics, I was seriously considering buying the B4 Airmatics from Bilstein, however I just didn't want to risk it so I stayed original.
My questions:
* People that value soft, quality ride, and want to retain the original experience - how do you see the Bilstein B4's ?
* If anyone can objectively compare ABC vs Bilstein B4 vs Airmatic original, any opinion would be valuable
My experience with Bilstein:
* I had Bilstein B4's on several BMW's of my past, and I found them very good, much better than the Sachs
* I had Bilstein B6 on an E39 and an E38, and they were obnoxious to me
* I also had Bilstein on my old W123 25 years ago, and they were great
I'm not interested in doing any job like this now, but I *am* certainly curious to see if anyone here has gone down the Airmatic/Bilstein B4 route, and I'm curious to see how you guys felt about them,
All the best & thanks in advance!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 493
Likes: 182
2006 W221 S500L M273
The ABC is not softer than the airmatic imho, it's just (a little) more composed around the corners.
I'm a BMW guy like you, and the ABC does not handle like a BMW (at all) but it does stay flat around a corner.
I'm a BMW guy like you, and the ABC does not handle like a BMW (at all) but it does stay flat around a corner.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
I'd agree with Japp
ABC in the right conditions is a better system - but the better has to be in context, its not a great suspension system just a less vile one than air tragic - however its vastly more expensive to maintain and tends to have bigger nastier failure modes - so long as level sensor link rods on the airtragic are in good movable condition it shouldn't let you down till you get past 15 years >100k miles
the first two I ever drove both had ABC and I didn't know there was an option, next time I drove mine (in the naff conditions of a brief test drive with a scared fool in the passenger seat cramping your style) I never detected a difference
I'd go further - to suggest the reactive abilities of ABC (when in good condition) are only to iron out the destroyed ride quality low sidewall tyres on big diameter wheels bring to the party...
so air tragic on 17" works OK
ABC on 19" will be about the same - but when trying to rest your head on the side window and take 1/4 off the tyres on one bend, the ABC car will be flatter - and thus missing out on the steering geometry / feel benefits the designer intended the car to have whilst in rally mode !
ABC in the right conditions is a better system - but the better has to be in context, its not a great suspension system just a less vile one than air tragic - however its vastly more expensive to maintain and tends to have bigger nastier failure modes - so long as level sensor link rods on the airtragic are in good movable condition it shouldn't let you down till you get past 15 years >100k miles
the first two I ever drove both had ABC and I didn't know there was an option, next time I drove mine (in the naff conditions of a brief test drive with a scared fool in the passenger seat cramping your style) I never detected a difference
I'd go further - to suggest the reactive abilities of ABC (when in good condition) are only to iron out the destroyed ride quality low sidewall tyres on big diameter wheels bring to the party...
so air tragic on 17" works OK
ABC on 19" will be about the same - but when trying to rest your head on the side window and take 1/4 off the tyres on one bend, the ABC car will be flatter - and thus missing out on the steering geometry / feel benefits the designer intended the car to have whilst in rally mode !
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From: Albuquerque
'10 CL550, '12 GL550
ABC and Airmatic are mutually exclusive and it is senseless to discuss them together. You basically cannot change a car from one to the other and you'd be better off changing whole cars.
As for "rebuilding" Airmatic struts, that must mean new rubber bladders and somehow dealing with the wear in the shock absorber portion of the struts. It's highly unlikely this can be accomplished DIY.
Bilstein is an OE supplier and does supply replacement Airmatic struts for W221. They are original specification, that is B4. There is no B6 option, so, again, discussion around that is irrelevant.
Bilstein struts are a viable substitute for Mercedes brand Airmatic struts.
As for "rebuilding" Airmatic struts, that must mean new rubber bladders and somehow dealing with the wear in the shock absorber portion of the struts. It's highly unlikely this can be accomplished DIY.
Bilstein is an OE supplier and does supply replacement Airmatic struts for W221. They are original specification, that is B4. There is no B6 option, so, again, discussion around that is irrelevant.
Bilstein struts are a viable substitute for Mercedes brand Airmatic struts.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 109
Likes: 92
2006 S350L
Hello,
>> senseless to discuss them together. You basically cannot change a car from one to the other and you'd be better off changing whole cars.
It's not senseless to discuss them together. It's actually very important to have a clear perspective on pros & cons of each system, so that I, and other owners and/or potential owners of these cars can know what they feel like. Obviously anyone with any experience knows that you can't "retrofit" ABC.
>> As for "rebuilding" Airmatic struts, that must mean new rubber bladders and somehow dealing with the wear in the shock absorber portion of the struts. It's highly unlikely this can be accomplished DIY.
It means new rubber bladders, and rebuilding the hydraulic pressure chamber & valves. Obviously this can't be accomplished DIY, that wasn't what I told our fellow member.
>> Bilstein is an OE supplier and does supply replacement Airmatic struts for W221. They are original specification, that is B4. There is no B6 option, so, again, discussion around that is irrelevant.
Did I mention anything about W221 B6? Even if such a thing existed, who in their right mind would do that to a W221..
>> Bilstein struts are a viable substitute for Mercedes brand Airmatic struts.
Have you ever used them?
I was looking for direct user experience with them.
Your reply was absolutely impolite and if this is normal discourse around these parts then I certainly have no place here.
None of what I said or asked was abrasive or stupid, there was no reason for you to reply about relevance, or sense (or lack of).
What an incredibly poor and rude reply.
>> senseless to discuss them together. You basically cannot change a car from one to the other and you'd be better off changing whole cars.
It's not senseless to discuss them together. It's actually very important to have a clear perspective on pros & cons of each system, so that I, and other owners and/or potential owners of these cars can know what they feel like. Obviously anyone with any experience knows that you can't "retrofit" ABC.
>> As for "rebuilding" Airmatic struts, that must mean new rubber bladders and somehow dealing with the wear in the shock absorber portion of the struts. It's highly unlikely this can be accomplished DIY.
It means new rubber bladders, and rebuilding the hydraulic pressure chamber & valves. Obviously this can't be accomplished DIY, that wasn't what I told our fellow member.
>> Bilstein is an OE supplier and does supply replacement Airmatic struts for W221. They are original specification, that is B4. There is no B6 option, so, again, discussion around that is irrelevant.
Did I mention anything about W221 B6? Even if such a thing existed, who in their right mind would do that to a W221..
>> Bilstein struts are a viable substitute for Mercedes brand Airmatic struts.
Have you ever used them?
I was looking for direct user experience with them.
Your reply was absolutely impolite and if this is normal discourse around these parts then I certainly have no place here.
None of what I said or asked was abrasive or stupid, there was no reason for you to reply about relevance, or sense (or lack of).
What an incredibly poor and rude reply.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
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S500
some people dip in an out quickly, that guys posts are usually valuable
but in general I fail to understand if you take an interest in a forum, where's the fun in part reading or giving up if someones post is longer then a single sentence or one short paragraph - and preferring to contribute just to be the big I am - and often ending up having a pop - where the issue was actually an inability to read
there can be a lot of fun listening to a long story and or getting an insight into the personality of someone you're likely never going to meet. and with this being an international forum that doesn't just focus on point scoring and having a pop at everyone three times in every post, we can learn about other parts of the world and whats happening out there... its why my contributions occasionally add a bit more background info in to the mix
we share the same planet and all ,suffer from bad behaviours, criminal governments, and are impacted by remote persecution by unjust regimes marketing others as the problem. if it negatively impact humans seeking to remain peacefully in their part of the world, and damages our environment - we need to understand how they achieve it and shout to down
but in general I fail to understand if you take an interest in a forum, where's the fun in part reading or giving up if someones post is longer then a single sentence or one short paragraph - and preferring to contribute just to be the big I am - and often ending up having a pop - where the issue was actually an inability to read
there can be a lot of fun listening to a long story and or getting an insight into the personality of someone you're likely never going to meet. and with this being an international forum that doesn't just focus on point scoring and having a pop at everyone three times in every post, we can learn about other parts of the world and whats happening out there... its why my contributions occasionally add a bit more background info in to the mix
we share the same planet and all ,suffer from bad behaviours, criminal governments, and are impacted by remote persecution by unjust regimes marketing others as the problem. if it negatively impact humans seeking to remain peacefully in their part of the world, and damages our environment - we need to understand how they achieve it and shout to down
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 109
Likes: 92
2006 S350L
>> some people dip in an out quickly, that guys posts are usually valuable
I know. Agree, but FFS, we can try to be polite to each other.. That post was condescending. I'm not some "used car lot I bought a W221 for 5K".
I was quite literally born in a W123 (which I subsequently drove and maintained/repaired myself hands-on from 16 to 20) and owned BMW 7 series from age 20 to age 37 accumulating >50K (BMW repairs/costs/service/maint) and well over >600,000 exhilarating KM in the process.
All I wanted was a ride quality comparison between the 3 scenarios . . .
>> but in general I fail to understand if you take an interest in a forum, where's the fun in part reading or giving up if someones post is longer then a single sentence or one short paragraph - and preferring to contribute just to be the big I am - and often ending up having a pop - where the issue was actually an inability to read
100% agree
>> there can be a lot of fun listening to a long story and or getting an insight into the personality of someone you're likely never going to meet. and with this being an international forum that doesn't just focus on point scoring and having a pop at everyone three times in every post, we can learn about other parts of the world and whats happening out there... its why my contributions occasionally add a bit more background info in to the mix
500% agree about having fun and learning more about people’s stories — after all, we’re not just car enthusiasts but people from all over the world.
>> criminal governments
And yes, God bless you for the thought on criminal governments. We need more of that awareness.
I just wanted to know what was smoother, ABC, Airmatic, or B4 Bilsteins...
I know. Agree, but FFS, we can try to be polite to each other.. That post was condescending. I'm not some "used car lot I bought a W221 for 5K".
I was quite literally born in a W123 (which I subsequently drove and maintained/repaired myself hands-on from 16 to 20) and owned BMW 7 series from age 20 to age 37 accumulating >50K (BMW repairs/costs/service/maint) and well over >600,000 exhilarating KM in the process.
All I wanted was a ride quality comparison between the 3 scenarios . . .
>> but in general I fail to understand if you take an interest in a forum, where's the fun in part reading or giving up if someones post is longer then a single sentence or one short paragraph - and preferring to contribute just to be the big I am - and often ending up having a pop - where the issue was actually an inability to read
100% agree
>> there can be a lot of fun listening to a long story and or getting an insight into the personality of someone you're likely never going to meet. and with this being an international forum that doesn't just focus on point scoring and having a pop at everyone three times in every post, we can learn about other parts of the world and whats happening out there... its why my contributions occasionally add a bit more background info in to the mix
500% agree about having fun and learning more about people’s stories — after all, we’re not just car enthusiasts but people from all over the world.
>> criminal governments
And yes, God bless you for the thought on criminal governments. We need more of that awareness.
I just wanted to know what was smoother, ABC, Airmatic, or B4 Bilsteins...
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,322
Likes: 1,678
S500
a lot comes down to tyres
the cars were designed with 17" diameter 235-55-17 tyres - and an option bigger width and diameter set up, with 255-45-18 was available - when I fitted the 18" to mine the ride was utterly destroyed ansd the car is no longer worth driving - I had OEM wheels and OEM spec tyres and std tyre pressures on both setups.
It didn’t just ruin ride comfort - the whole car went backwards destroying its comfortable almost fun handling balance too - before it drove like a big comfy car with complaint composed suspension - now it crashes around offending you in every aspect of how it drives... it looks normal rather than a joke like it does on its 17" OEM wheels but one shouldn't go there
As I posted before - I suspect ABC was just trying to get it back to normal on bigger wheels
the cars were designed with 17" diameter 235-55-17 tyres - and an option bigger width and diameter set up, with 255-45-18 was available - when I fitted the 18" to mine the ride was utterly destroyed ansd the car is no longer worth driving - I had OEM wheels and OEM spec tyres and std tyre pressures on both setups.
It didn’t just ruin ride comfort - the whole car went backwards destroying its comfortable almost fun handling balance too - before it drove like a big comfy car with complaint composed suspension - now it crashes around offending you in every aspect of how it drives... it looks normal rather than a joke like it does on its 17" OEM wheels but one shouldn't go there
As I posted before - I suspect ABC was just trying to get it back to normal on bigger wheels
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