Is the problem reported by these trouble codes serious?
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S500
where do you think the OEM ones are made...
most electronics is made over there and most of it leaks out the back of the factory and gets sold at sensible prices - the junk faulty ones get sold as OEM at 20 times the price
most electronics is made over there and most of it leaks out the back of the factory and gets sold at sensible prices - the junk faulty ones get sold as OEM at 20 times the price
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Re Upstream: The car has ~148000 KM (92000 Miles) on it. Should I go ahead and replace the UPSTREAM sensors too, or would that be overkill / premature?
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Thanks. Will do.
There is such a wide range of sensors available. Starting from about $150 for all four Lambda Sensors on Amazon (they are on AliExpress too) to very expensive Denso ones. Variants of Bosch, NGK (NTK), and Walk-Products fill the gap in between. Any suggestions? I am of course wanting to save money wherever possible but don't want to end up with another headache. At the same time, don't want to throw away my money for "phantom" peace of mind, if you know what I mean. Any tips and advice would be appreciated
There is such a wide range of sensors available. Starting from about $150 for all four Lambda Sensors on Amazon (they are on AliExpress too) to very expensive Denso ones. Variants of Bosch, NGK (NTK), and Walk-Products fill the gap in between. Any suggestions? I am of course wanting to save money wherever possible but don't want to end up with another headache. At the same time, don't want to throw away my money for "phantom" peace of mind, if you know what I mean. Any tips and advice would be appreciated
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
Thanks. Will do.
There is such a wide range of sensors available. Starting from about $150 for all four Lambda Sensors on Amazon (they are on AliExpress too) to very expensive Denso ones. Variants of Bosch, NGK (NTK), and Walk-Products fill the gap in between. Any suggestions? I am of course wanting to save money wherever possible but don't want to end up with another headache. At the same time, don't want to throw away my money for "phantom" peace of mind, if you know what I mean. Any tips and advice would be appreciated
There is such a wide range of sensors available. Starting from about $150 for all four Lambda Sensors on Amazon (they are on AliExpress too) to very expensive Denso ones. Variants of Bosch, NGK (NTK), and Walk-Products fill the gap in between. Any suggestions? I am of course wanting to save money wherever possible but don't want to end up with another headache. At the same time, don't want to throw away my money for "phantom" peace of mind, if you know what I mean. Any tips and advice would be appreciated
Before getting the new sensors consider that there is NO COINCIDENCE between cheap gas and the CEL. What if the cheap gasoline is so dirty it build up in the injectors.? Dirty injectors do not atomize the fuel correctly and can lead to lots of unburned fuel that then enters the exhaust system and can very easily cause the rich signal from the O2 sensor.
I’m surprised to read all the replies here and only one mentions to add fuel additive but even that one does not weigh on cleaning the injectors.
What I would do is put two bottles of injector cleaner (STP works good for me) in the tank and fill it up with good clean gasoline like from Shell, Exxon or Chevron and give it a good run. Do another full tank like this if no help.
I would even consider taking injectors out to check them out as the coincidences in life are very rare and having CEL come on just after cheap gasoline fill kind of points to dirty injectors to me.
If you just replace the O2 sensors and the problem is the dirty injectors you will not fix anything, just waste money.
What comes to ChatGPT, it finds info from the net just like Google or some other search engine. If it found this thread it FOR SURE would say the post CAT O2 sensor is bad.
Last edited by Arrie; Jul 6, 2025 at 02:43 PM.
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S500
roughly converting GPB back to dollars I use - I got some $34 each front ones but some moron had fitted the wrong pins so wouldn't connect - Bosch were going for $130 each so went with Lucas at $75
all looked of similar quality - got some $17 ones on my BMW bike - they work just fine !!! BMWs price is $310 each - its just theft
all looked of similar quality - got some $17 ones on my BMW bike - they work just fine !!! BMWs price is $310 each - its just theft
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Just my two cents:
Before getting the new sensors consider that there is NO COINCIDENCE between cheap gas and the CEL. What if the cheap gasoline is so dirty it build up in the injectors.? Dirty injectors do not atomize the fuel correctly and can lead to lots of unburned fuel that then enters the exhaust system and can very easily cause the rich signal from the O2 sensor.
I’m surprised to read all the replies here and only one mentions to add fuel additive but even that one does not weigh on cleaning the injectors.
What I would do is put two bottles of injector cleaner (STP works good for me) in the tank and fill it up with good clean gasoline like from Shell, Exxon or Chevron and give it a good run. Do another full tank like this if no help.
I would even consider taking injectors out to check them out as the coincidences in life are very rare and having CEL come on just after cheap gasoline fill kind of points to dirty injectors to me.
If you just replace the O2 sensors and the problem is the dirty injectors you will not fix anything, just waste money.
What comes to ChatGPT, it finds info from the net just like Google or some other search engine. If it found this thread it FOR SURE would say the post CAT O2 sensor is bad.
Before getting the new sensors consider that there is NO COINCIDENCE between cheap gas and the CEL. What if the cheap gasoline is so dirty it build up in the injectors.? Dirty injectors do not atomize the fuel correctly and can lead to lots of unburned fuel that then enters the exhaust system and can very easily cause the rich signal from the O2 sensor.
I’m surprised to read all the replies here and only one mentions to add fuel additive but even that one does not weigh on cleaning the injectors.
What I would do is put two bottles of injector cleaner (STP works good for me) in the tank and fill it up with good clean gasoline like from Shell, Exxon or Chevron and give it a good run. Do another full tank like this if no help.
I would even consider taking injectors out to check them out as the coincidences in life are very rare and having CEL come on just after cheap gasoline fill kind of points to dirty injectors to me.
If you just replace the O2 sensors and the problem is the dirty injectors you will not fix anything, just waste money.
What comes to ChatGPT, it finds info from the net just like Google or some other search engine. If it found this thread it FOR SURE would say the post CAT O2 sensor is bad.
I put in a bottle of Liqui Moly Jectron yesterday in (the tank was about 3 quarters full). I spent all day yesterday driving it to "force" a cleaning and burning off cheap gas. I plan to repeat this today as well (the tank is almost empty). I had ordered a 6 pack of Liqui Moly so still have few bottles left. In the meantime, I have ordered a pair of downstream sensors. If the CEL is still on in a week (i.e. after these gas purge and clean cycles), i will replace sensors. If CEL goes away as a result of cleaning and superior gas, I will return the sensors :-)
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,143
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2022
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Just my two cents:
Before getting the new sensors consider that there is NO COINCIDENCE between cheap gas and the CEL. What if the cheap gasoline is so dirty it build up in the injectors.? Dirty injectors do not atomize the fuel correctly and can lead to lots of unburned fuel that then enters the exhaust system and can very easily cause the rich signal from the O2 sensor.
I’m surprised to read all the replies here and only one mentions to add fuel additive but even that one does not weigh on cleaning the injectors.
What I would do is put two bottles of injector cleaner (STP works good for me) in the tank and fill it up with good clean gasoline like from Shell, Exxon or Chevron and give it a good run. Do another full tank like this if no help.
I would even consider taking injectors out to check them out as the coincidences in life are very rare and having CEL come on just after cheap gasoline fill kind of points to dirty injectors to me.
If you just replace the O2 sensors and the problem is the dirty injectors you will not fix anything, just waste money.
What comes to ChatGPT, it finds info from the net just like Google or some other search engine. If it found this thread it FOR SURE would say the post CAT O2 sensor is bad.
Before getting the new sensors consider that there is NO COINCIDENCE between cheap gas and the CEL. What if the cheap gasoline is so dirty it build up in the injectors.? Dirty injectors do not atomize the fuel correctly and can lead to lots of unburned fuel that then enters the exhaust system and can very easily cause the rich signal from the O2 sensor.
I’m surprised to read all the replies here and only one mentions to add fuel additive but even that one does not weigh on cleaning the injectors.
What I would do is put two bottles of injector cleaner (STP works good for me) in the tank and fill it up with good clean gasoline like from Shell, Exxon or Chevron and give it a good run. Do another full tank like this if no help.
I would even consider taking injectors out to check them out as the coincidences in life are very rare and having CEL come on just after cheap gasoline fill kind of points to dirty injectors to me.
If you just replace the O2 sensors and the problem is the dirty injectors you will not fix anything, just waste money.
What comes to ChatGPT, it finds info from the net just like Google or some other search engine. If it found this thread it FOR SURE would say the post CAT O2 sensor is bad.
This worked!!!!
I put in Liqui Moly Jectron in about three quarters of tank, and ran the cur until the reserve fuel light came on. CEL was still on. I then put in two bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, and fill it up with a top tier gas (with detergent in it). The CEL wen away within 70 KM of driving with this new tank of gas loaded with cleaners and detergents LOL. I drove the car for another hour and ~40 KM just to be sure and CEL stayed off. Looks like I am in the clear. Thanks!
The question I now face is what to do with the two downstream sensors I had ordered. Keep them? Replace existing (which are factory original) proactively? Or return the new O2 sensors for refund and replace them when they actually go bad down the road?
Any suggestions?
Thanks again everyone. You all are so helpful and awesome!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,143
Likes: 1,297
From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
This worked!!!!
I put in Liqui Moly Jectron in about three quarters of tank, and ran the cur until the reserve fuel light came on. CEL was still on. I then put in two bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, and fill it up with a top tier gas (with detergent in it). The CEL wen away within 70 KM of driving with this new tank of gas loaded with cleaners and detergents LOL. I drove the car for another hour and ~40 KM just to be sure and CEL stayed off. Looks like I am in the clear. Thanks!
The question I now face is what to do with the two downstream sensors I had ordered. Keep them? Replace existing (which are factory original) proactively? Or return the new O2 sensors for refund and replace them when they actually go bad down the road?
Any suggestions?
Thanks again everyone. You all are so helpful and awesome!
I put in Liqui Moly Jectron in about three quarters of tank, and ran the cur until the reserve fuel light came on. CEL was still on. I then put in two bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, and fill it up with a top tier gas (with detergent in it). The CEL wen away within 70 KM of driving with this new tank of gas loaded with cleaners and detergents LOL. I drove the car for another hour and ~40 KM just to be sure and CEL stayed off. Looks like I am in the clear. Thanks!
The question I now face is what to do with the two downstream sensors I had ordered. Keep them? Replace existing (which are factory original) proactively? Or return the new O2 sensors for refund and replace them when they actually go bad down the road?
Any suggestions?
Thanks again everyone. You all are so helpful and awesome!
Your injectors must have been quite dirty to put the CEL ON. I don’t know how difficult it is to take injectors out, but it might make sense to do that and have them cleaned. Best would be to put new injectors in the engine but that might be a bit costly?
If the O2 sensors were not to expensive just keep them if you plan to keep the car for a long time.
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Great it worked. Just run another couple tank fulls with the STP cleaner.
Your injectors must have been quite dirty to put the CEL ON. I don’t know how difficult it is to take injectors out, but it might make sense to do that and have them cleaned. Best would be to put new injectors in the engine but that might be a bit costly?
If the O2 sensors were not to expensive just keep them if you plan to keep the car for a long time.
Your injectors must have been quite dirty to put the CEL ON. I don’t know how difficult it is to take injectors out, but it might make sense to do that and have them cleaned. Best would be to put new injectors in the engine but that might be a bit costly?
If the O2 sensors were not to expensive just keep them if you plan to keep the car for a long time.
This wasn't the first time I bought gas from this place. I would say it was my third back-to-back fill up at this location, so if it was gas from this place that caused the FI's to clog up, it had a few weeks and about a 1000K worth of driving to catch up to it. Just sharing it because my original post probably left with the impression that gas from this place did this only after 150 KM of driving. I think it was building up to it.
While I have your attention: can you please explain a bit more science or rationale behind it? More specifically, if the FI's were clogged, that would hinder the gas supply to burning chamber. So, wouldn't that result in lean mixture, not rich?
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
Yes, I was thinking the same that injectors must have been really dirty.
This wasn't the first time I bought gas from this place. I would say it was my third back-to-back fill up at this location, so if it was gas from this place that caused the FI's to clog up, it had a few weeks and about a 1000K worth of driving to catch up to it. Just sharing it because my original post probably left with the impression that gas from this place did this only after 150 KM of driving. I think it was building up to it.
While I have your attention: can you please explain a bit more science or rationale behind it? More specifically, if the FI's were clogged, that would hinder the gas supply to burning chamber. So, wouldn't that result in lean mixture, not rich?
This wasn't the first time I bought gas from this place. I would say it was my third back-to-back fill up at this location, so if it was gas from this place that caused the FI's to clog up, it had a few weeks and about a 1000K worth of driving to catch up to it. Just sharing it because my original post probably left with the impression that gas from this place did this only after 150 KM of driving. I think it was building up to it.
While I have your attention: can you please explain a bit more science or rationale behind it? More specifically, if the FI's were clogged, that would hinder the gas supply to burning chamber. So, wouldn't that result in lean mixture, not rich?
It is not about injectors plugging up, it is about the condition of the spray they make. This same can happen if the fuel pressure at the injector is too low. Pressure must be high enough to produce the fine mist so low fuel pressure can lead to rich condition too, which sounds weird.
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Fuel injector changes the fuel flow in the pipe to a fine mist that burns easily and fast. If the injector gets dirty the spray becomes "streamy" and loses the fine mist. Streaming gas in the spray does not burn fast enough so some of the gas is left unburned and will then enter the exhaust system causing the rich condition at the sensors.
It is not about injectors plugging up, it is about the condition of the spray they make. This same can happen if the fuel pressure at the injector is too low. Pressure must be high enough to produce the fine mist so low fuel pressure can lead to rich condition too, which sounds weird.
It is not about injectors plugging up, it is about the condition of the spray they make. This same can happen if the fuel pressure at the injector is too low. Pressure must be high enough to produce the fine mist so low fuel pressure can lead to rich condition too, which sounds weird.
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Great it worked. Just run another couple tank fulls with the STP cleaner.
Your injectors must have been quite dirty to put the CEL ON. I don’t know how difficult it is to take injectors out, but it might make sense to do that and have them cleaned. Best would be to put new injectors in the engine but that might be a bit costly?
If the O2 sensors were not to expensive just keep them if you plan to keep the car for a long time.
Your injectors must have been quite dirty to put the CEL ON. I don’t know how difficult it is to take injectors out, but it might make sense to do that and have them cleaned. Best would be to put new injectors in the engine but that might be a bit costly?
If the O2 sensors were not to expensive just keep them if you plan to keep the car for a long time.
When the CEL went away after driving it with STP FI Cleaner added to gas tank, I did not do the extra one or two gas tanks worth of driving with FI cleaner added as you had suggested. So....the CEL came back after about a couple of months (did not drive the car much during that time). Scanner showed same codes related to O2 sensor. This time, I went with a different FI cleaner and used more expensive and reportedly more potent "Gumout Regane High Mileage". To make it even more effective, I added *two* bottles to the tank. The CEL light went away after about 100 KM of driving. In terms of fuel usage, that was about 1/8th worth of gas tank. I intend to drive it daily to go through the whole gas tank loaded with Gumout Regane FI cleaner.
It still looks like FI's could use more cleaning, right? For good measure, I have ordered a pair of NGK O2 sensors (reportedly original OEM) from RockAuto just in case. My main worry is that if FI cleaner treatment is making the CEL light go away by itself, it probably means that the problem is with dirty FI and/or fuel lines and not O2 sensors? If so, how do I get that taken care of because a simpler fix like O2 sensor replacement is not going to work for me?
Thanks.
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W221 S500
"Gas" in this context, is a noun and is an abbreviation of "gasoline". Its usage is grammatically correct.
Back to the question...
Use a bottle of proprietary fuel cleaner additive, my go to in the UK is Wynn's Injector cleaner, you should have something similar where you are. Add this to a tank of the highest grade fuel you can buy... Again, in the UK, I use Shell V Power for this and I have seen it available in the US.
Drive the car fairly hard for the whole tank and stop using low grade fuel afterwards.
The live data will tell you if the sensor is reporting nonsense or good data.
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S500
no cleaning product can make the EML go off and stay off (indeed it shouldn't be able to even do it temporarily) - there is a real fault - these very expensive products are emptying your wallet - with no actual chance of a cure
I haven't responded to the many previous posts by a some long resident members who swear it works - all I can say is go to college learn how engines work, how modern engine management system behave and stop dreaming
EML = engine management (fault warning) light
CEL is done by opening the bonnet and looking at what just powered the vehicle to the garage forecourt
I haven't responded to the many previous posts by a some long resident members who swear it works - all I can say is go to college learn how engines work, how modern engine management system behave and stop dreaming
EML = engine management (fault warning) light
CEL is done by opening the bonnet and looking at what just powered the vehicle to the garage forecourt
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Posts: 625
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W221 S500
no cleaning product can make the EML go off and stay off (indeed it shouldn't be able to even do it temporarily) - there is a real fault - these very expensive products are emptying your wallet - with no actual chance of a cure
I haven't responded to the many previous posts by a some long resident members who swear it works - all I can say is go to college learn how engines work, how modern engine management system behave and stop dreaming
EML = engine management (fault warning) light
CEL is done by opening the bonnet and looking at what just powered the vehicle to the garage forecourt
I haven't responded to the many previous posts by a some long resident members who swear it works - all I can say is go to college learn how engines work, how modern engine management system behave and stop dreaming
EML = engine management (fault warning) light
CEL is done by opening the bonnet and looking at what just powered the vehicle to the garage forecourt
1. It is functioning correctly and something is amiss.
Or...
2. The sensor itself is the fault and it's reporting incorrectly.
The only way to determine which with a degree of certainty is to watch the live data and see if the information being reported is consistent with the same sensor on the opposite bank. If it's not and there are no other symptoms/indications then it's a faulty sensor. If any other parameters are amiss upstream of the sensor then the sensor is functioning correctly and there's another issue.
The fuel cleaner serves to clean the injectors as a partially clogged, sticky or failing injector(s) is the only reason why the fueling, and therefore, cat efficiency might be affected on one bank but not the other. Ok, that's not entirely accurate, a clogged air filter could also do it when there's one for each bank, likewise a failing spark plug or coil. But no evidence to suggest a misfire in this case.
People always jump to faulty sensor without considering the possibility that the sensor is actually working correctly.
Live data before and after the fuel system clean will provide a reasonable comparison for further investigate if it's required.
The fault code itself serves as a starting point for a proper invesigative diagnostic process, it is not THE diagnosis.
Last edited by AL5461; Sep 28, 2025 at 03:43 PM.
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W221 S500
This worked!!!!
I put in Liqui Moly Jectron in about three quarters of tank, and ran the cur until the reserve fuel light came on. CEL was still on. I then put in two bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, and fill it up with a top tier gas (with detergent in it). The CEL wen away within 70 KM of driving with this new tank of gas loaded with cleaners and detergents LOL. I drove the car for another hour and ~40 KM just to be sure and CEL stayed off. Looks like I am in the clear. Thanks!
The question I now face is what to do with the two downstream sensors I had ordered. Keep them? Replace existing (which are factory original) proactively? Or return the new O2 sensors for refund and replace them when they actually go bad down the road?
Any suggestions?
Thanks again everyone. You all are so helpful and awesome!
I put in Liqui Moly Jectron in about three quarters of tank, and ran the cur until the reserve fuel light came on. CEL was still on. I then put in two bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, and fill it up with a top tier gas (with detergent in it). The CEL wen away within 70 KM of driving with this new tank of gas loaded with cleaners and detergents LOL. I drove the car for another hour and ~40 KM just to be sure and CEL stayed off. Looks like I am in the clear. Thanks!
The question I now face is what to do with the two downstream sensors I had ordered. Keep them? Replace existing (which are factory original) proactively? Or return the new O2 sensors for refund and replace them when they actually go bad down the road?
Any suggestions?
Thanks again everyone. You all are so helpful and awesome!
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 625
Likes: 211
W221 S500
Hello again
When the CEL went away after driving it with STP FI Cleaner added to gas tank, I did not do the extra one or two gas tanks worth of driving with FI cleaner added as you had suggested. So....the CEL came back after about a couple of months (did not drive the car much during that time). Scanner showed same codes related to O2 sensor. This time, I went with a different FI cleaner and used more expensive and reportedly more potent "Gumout Regane High Mileage". To make it even more effective, I added *two* bottles to the tank. The CEL light went away after about 100 KM of driving. In terms of fuel usage, that was about 1/8th worth of gas tank. I intend to drive it daily to go through the whole gas tank loaded with Gumout Regane FI cleaner.
It still looks like FI's could use more cleaning, right? For good measure, I have ordered a pair of NGK O2 sensors (reportedly original OEM) from RockAuto just in case. My main worry is that if FI cleaner treatment is making the CEL light go away by itself, it probably means that the problem is with dirty FI and/or fuel lines and not O2 sensors? If so, how do I get that taken care of because a simpler fix like O2 sensor replacement is not going to work for me?
Thanks.
When the CEL went away after driving it with STP FI Cleaner added to gas tank, I did not do the extra one or two gas tanks worth of driving with FI cleaner added as you had suggested. So....the CEL came back after about a couple of months (did not drive the car much during that time). Scanner showed same codes related to O2 sensor. This time, I went with a different FI cleaner and used more expensive and reportedly more potent "Gumout Regane High Mileage". To make it even more effective, I added *two* bottles to the tank. The CEL light went away after about 100 KM of driving. In terms of fuel usage, that was about 1/8th worth of gas tank. I intend to drive it daily to go through the whole gas tank loaded with Gumout Regane FI cleaner.
It still looks like FI's could use more cleaning, right? For good measure, I have ordered a pair of NGK O2 sensors (reportedly original OEM) from RockAuto just in case. My main worry is that if FI cleaner treatment is making the CEL light go away by itself, it probably means that the problem is with dirty FI and/or fuel lines and not O2 sensors? If so, how do I get that taken care of because a simpler fix like O2 sensor replacement is not going to work for me?
Thanks.
If you want to rule out the injectors, replace the fuel filter(s) and then remove the injectors for an ultrasonic clean. You can buy a bench test machine for the injectors to check their performance before/after cleaning.
Unless you've put soil in the tank, the lines themselves are unlikely to be clogged as they get flushed whenever the pump is running.
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Thanks.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2022
Posts: 103
Likes: 7
Thanks.
