@Germancar1: its not worth it. K-A bought himself a BMW long time ago and still frequents the MB forums to give us all his objective point of view. It's a public service and not trolling

He frequents this forum more than actual mercedes owners, only to point out how bad the build quality is of mercedes cars (especially W212), and how superior BMW is.
I believe he wants to buy a Tesla next, so BMW seems to also have fallen from grace...

 

I hope you stay out of investing, if this is how you look at future potentials.

Not turning a profit for a STARTUP is par-for-the-course. As Elon said, if Tesla wanted, they could turn a hue profit today (high margins, massive demand, etc.), but they're INVESTING in becoming the future Daimler on steroids. They will spend every penny they make and then some to grow into what Musk believes will be one of the most valuable companies in the world, in the future.

If you want to buy hyper-growth, you typically have to sacrifice profits, it's always a gamble, but when/if Tesla starts turning a profit after all the growth-investing they'd have done for years pays off, that's when the payoff really makes it all worth it.

Tesla did turn a profit for 2-3 quarters, but as Elon stated, that's not their goal right now, so they started investing into their company more heavily, thus went back into the red recently.

Tesla's market cap is a between a third and a quarter of DAIMLER's ENTIRE cap (as of today), Tesla is probably more like just over half of what Mercedes-Benz is. THAT IS INCREDIBLE. Sustainable? Maybe not, maybe so, the bear case is that it's a bubble, the bull case is that this is the beginning of the next generation of vehicular transport. I know where I'd place my bets (and have, but sold out of Tesla a while back because I think the stock has gotten frothy in the near term and could use a bigger shakeout before heading to new highs again).

EV's won't universally happen overnight, but Musk is doing what he can to speed up the process. Creating the HOTTEST car on the market was part 1. Releasing his patents for free is part 2, etc.

Why Tesla is such a story is because this seems like the long-awaited revolution. You can kick and scream against it, but it's happening right before you. Tesla is at the beginning stages of a plan to make the world eventually all sustainably EV. Imagine their market cap when that happens! THAT is what the market is investing in, hence why Tesla with ONE CAR is getting pretty damn close (close enough, all things considered) to the worth of Mercedes-Benz cars, or BMW cars for that matter.

Correction: Tesla CAN'T stock their store like Mercedes does their Dealer networks. Tesla is selling every single Model S that can be physically built, and then some. Stores HAVE had Tesla's in stock in the past, FYI, but the demand has made it so Tesla hasn't had to make a decision as to whether or not they'd simply halt production until orders come in, were the Model S to stop selling.

 

Last time I researched this Tesla makes a 25-28% profit per vehicle and that's really the number that matters to me if I were considering investing in that company. All the more reason other manufacturers should get into high performance long range EVs. They are more profitable to make because you have far fewer moving parts and mechanical components.

It's silly to bring up a start up is "loosing money" because a startup is investing in growth by its very definition. What else would they do? Continue to sell 30,000 cars a year and be happy with that? They want to ramp up production to 500,000+ cars eventually and it is a big bet but Tesla and SpaceX didn't come to be by betting small.

As an American, I am proud of the industrial innovation we are seeing in Tesla and with the recent patent announcement their EV technologies will likely make it to many other cars in the future.

 

I don't even believe that. Somebody that doubts actual owner experience over articles that somebody writes is not just normal
(thanks to Germancar1's quotes we are treated to some more of K-A's ramblings.)

At this point I am wondering if the K-A drives even a 5 series.
Maybe he just sits in his cubicle surfing the web all day long getting relief by annoying people that drive the cars that are out of his pay grade.

 

Didn't you know? Companies are supposed to get profitable immediately and be happy with whatever their initial earnings are, as they can't ever risk going into the red via investing in future growth.

Like what Apple did with technology, after getting hammered as jokes in auto industry for so long, it's nice to see an American car company not only being relevant again, but actually initiating/trend-setting an important and viable revolution. It's huge.

(even if it was started by a South African guy).

 

Likewise don't get anywhere near a car company other than to buy one because you don't know squat else about them.



No, get outta here, really? No one ever knew. You're the one comparing them to Daimler, not me. Again, why? Clueless hater of Mercedes, but 2 years ago MB drove on water. Can you say CLUELESS?



Great.

Great.

Great.

Great.

No one is screaming against it, but neither am I embracing it as the second coming of the automobile.

No way, didn't I just say that they couldn't do that? You keep repeating that the Tesla is selling very well when no one said it wasn't. Not sure why.

Tesla stores DO NOT STOCK cars like regular dealer do. THEY NEVER HAVE. Their sales model is completely different. Not sure what you're arguing about anymore and I doubt you're sure about what you're arguing about either.

M

 

Just to wrap up this discussion, the AWD I was waiting on for arrived when Tesla released the D. We just finalized our order for a P85D to be delivered in December.

The car is going to have 3 driving modes: Normal, Sport, and "insane!" 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, 691hp, and 687lb-ft of torque with 100% of that available at 0rpm. With this I am completely convinced that the days of bad *** internal combustion engine vehicles is over. The passing power with that much instant torque is going to be surreal.

Mercedes has yet to release an electric vehicle that is the least bit competitive with even the P85 but with the P85D there's just no comparison. I was just waiting on an AWD P85 but never expected it to come in the form of a vehicle that out accelerate pretty much the entire Mercedes AMG lineup on our way back home from grocery shopping

I had always conceded that the S class had the edge in interior comfort and design but with the P85D they rolled out a bunch of interior refinements including new seats and some other improvements so even interior-wise they are working to close the gap.

Yes, the S63 is bad *** but if it was electric it would be so much more bad *** and I hope Mercedes gets their act together with EV technology. We will be selling our E550 in December when our Tesla is delivered and likely will never buy another gasoline powered car.

I'll still be around the Mercedes forums every now and then and look forward to the day when Mercedes releases a bad *** all electric AMG vehicle to outperform the Model S P85D. I'm unlikely not the only customer they will loose to Tesla in the meantime. Our P85D came to about $121K and for the performance we get I think it's an incredible deal.

 

Sounds cool, very cool. The last one didn't excite me. It was missing some soul. I haven't seen the new one and looked at any pics closely, and I hope they stepped up their game. Please report back after you get it.

Oh, interestingly, Mercedes just sold ALL of their Tesla stock last week!

 

I'll report back The Tesla driving experience is different, more subtle, and about the technology and feeling the actual driving. It has a soul in a difference sense. There is no engine noise, vibration, transmission shifts etc., so a lot of extraneous things we are used to that is produced by the car are gone. In it's place though is the driving experience as what you feel and hear is not the drive-train and the engine but the car actually moving.

One of the features they plan to update via software is a feature where when you drive to your house, the car will drop you off at your front door and assuming it is all private property, it will drive itself to the garage, open the garage door via HomeLink, and park itself in the garage, close the door and start charging automatically. The car already has access to your calendar so when you have an appointment come up, it will drive itself out of the garage and meet you at your front door at the right time to leave based on traffic conditions.

As much as a car what they've built is a software platform and it's amazing the features that they can now activate via software since the new models are shipping with a built in radar and sensor package for autonomous driving. The era of traditional car manufacturers making software changes every 6-7 years for new features when they release a new car model is over.

That was not just Mercedes though selling their shares. Toyota too has sold their shares and I think it has more to do with another partner wanting to come onboard to partner with Tesla. There are rumors about a potential partnership with BMW. Also though Toyota and Mercedes were partners at the beginning as Tesla scales up to 50-100K units a year over the next couple of years they are going to be competing more for the same customers. In any case the sale of the Tesla shares has hardly affected the value of existing shares.

I've said this before and I still believe the sooner Mercedes comes out with a credible car to compete with the Model S the better. I'm surprised they still don't have anything to compete with the Model S and it seems they thought the Model S was going to be a passing fad. It is not.

 

The German car manufactures are pushing on plug-in hybrid cars. Only a limited number of people are interested in electric cars in Europe.

 

Damn. P85D is a beast. Arguably the best car in the world, even with the somewhat lackluster, if improved, interior.

 

Would love to see pics of the interior once you receive it.
We considered the Tesla but decided against it until the charging network is further built out and will wait until the interior is improved. Those were two significant strikes against Tesla in our decision ... but I really wanted to get the Tesla because I believe it is a major step in the right direction for the future of automobiles.
Until those issues are resolved we will enjoy our S Class.

 

Agree 100%, we considered one but I had a price tag over 100K it's hard to swallow that interior just yet, so spartan IMO

 

Wow.. Poor OP. We start talking about a S63 and some person who is rude and clearly a huge fanboy of Tesla turns it into a multi page thread about he hates gas powered cars and how Tesla is a gift from God.

I think it is great you have a love for the P85 and the amazing performance but seriously to thread jack like this and argue with anyone who doesn't like it just shows you are insecure and trying to justify your position. No need to jam your information and facts in everyone's face. We get it you like the Tesla. Move on...

 

That and this insane BS about Mercedes "getting their act together" so they can build an EV. It is completely obvious that they aren't interesting in doing so. It's like saying when is Tesla going to get their act together and build a proper ICE vehicle. Really dumb.

M

 

.... Until MB finally start inevitably releasing EV's.

They will, because they'll likely have to. Maybe unless oil keeps plummeting and the future of gas prices becomes much cheaper than originally thought. Which can slow the necessity for people to move to EV's.

At this point it's either commit to it, or likely be left behind in the future. IMO MB would be best served to slowly start to embrace EV technology to hedge themselves in the future. They don't have to bet the farm on it, but it'd be a wise long term move and prove innovative engineering prowess past fluffy marketing bits like massaging seats, swarovski headlights and evolving on the same powertrains. Those things are all dandy as that's what MB do, but Tesla is pushing innovation much further. This goes for many more than just MB.

 

IMO, however an "S Class Electric Version" won't really cut it. The Model S is EV from conception, ground up. A car developed with ICE won't be able to compete totally. As a car buff, I prefer that automakers either develop EV cars from the ground up while continuing to obviously perfect ICE cars so that each can be honed as a non compromise to one or the other. It's also better for marketing purposes (dedicated EV car). Then as time goes on, the winning formula will start to be the one that gets to be the core basis of future cars' development. Undoubtedly at some point in the future it'll be EV as Musk has truly proved it to be the superior drivetrain, even in its commercial infancy.

 

That would be like saying when is a modern car manufacturer going to get their act together and release an updated horse and buggy carriage

Let's see how long they are no longer "interested" in building a high performance EV. Our P85D purchase came at the expense of an S550 sale and I doubt I'm alone. The Tesla P85D is probably going to affect the Porsche Panamera sales even more with its 3.2s 0-60.

It seems there are many executives at Mercedes who thinks like you or used to think like you. Let's see who's dumb in a few years as Tesla ramps up production and takes away more market share from the Germans

 

If anything, I think Tesla may take more buyers away from the S63/65 since those customers are more performance oriented, speed. But the facts are the sales of the S63/S65 compared to the S550 are dismal. I can't predict the future, but 5 years from now it will be interesting.

 

Sounds like a prime example of someone who needs to "Keep up with Jones" Their current car is the best until they find something they love next then what was once perfect is now no good. It just goes on and on. Best thing to do is just to ignore the automotive elite snobs who think what they drive is the best thing even. Honestly it reminds me of how the JDM crowd use to be always knocking the Corvette, Camaro and Mustang owners for driving big V8's when a 4 banger with a turbo is faster and more efficient. Fast forward to 2014 and scroll the tesla forum and you will see what I mean when they talk about anything other then a Tesla lol. It is too bad people have to be this way because it makes a car meet or forum not a fun place to be...

 

After reading your post here you just cannot accept that not everyone wants to drive a Tesla can you? You should just move on with like minded people. I love the Tesla's performance. But I am not about to go run out and by one.


Now throw tomatoes at me

 

Oh please man. Give the tired, lame rhetoric a rest. This gloom and doom that you and others keep talking about is just BS. For the record I'm sure Mercedes and others will eventually build something to compete, nor am I dismissing Tesla. However this dumb theory about Mercedes being oh so hurt by Tesla is just that, dumb. Prove it, where is the market analysis? People elect to buy other cars besides the S-Class every single day and guess what, the S is still the sales leader by a landslide.

You think that people buy the Panamera solely for it's 0-60 time? You're just clueless.

M

 

Wow... It feels like you are still amped up over your exchange with someone else. He was just expressing his opinion without being argumentative and you light into him like this is a long running emotional fight. Please don't start another long drawn out exchange.

Sure MB has had remarkable sales of 100k+ in the SClass this past year, we all know that. That isn't the meaning of the discussion as I see it and read between the lines. What I read into these opinions is a discussion about the future of automobiles, not the past couple years of sales. Visionary vs present state pragmatism.

 

German1 does not play well with others evidently

 

Tell it to the people who are in the S63 AMG THREAD talking about a Tesla, or did you miss that? Those are the ones ruining everything with off topic BS, or do you not see that? Read between the lines and I read a lot of the same thing over and over and over again, Mercedes is lacking because they don't make a EV. We got it. You really need to read the whole thread and see where the off topic and misinformation came from.

M