WEBSRFR

And this is the reason we bought a P85D We love the sleek understated design of our Model S. It draws very little attention and we like it that way.

Since the Model S design came out in 2012, it can use a facelift but since the car came out Tesla has implemented so many changes under the hood and they are making the car components and the software better pretty much on a weekly basis.

They are following more of Porsche's model of incremental but constant improvements than the every 3-4 year redesigns that other manufacturers do. Their sales are going up by about 50% every year so as long as they keep improving the product I doubt a major exterior redesign will happen any time soon. Especially as they have their hands full getting the Model X out and designing their $35K Model 3 that's supposed to come out in 2017/2018.

Fly by night

The model X in my opinion looks outstanding

WEBSRFR

Yeah it is crazy they managed to design and build that vehicle. Elon musk told a while ago that the Model X will be a better SUV than the Model S is a better car and given how much I liked the Model S I had a hard time imagining what he meant but I'd say that's characterization is accurate.

W210

Sorry to bring up an old thread. So I sat in the Tesla P90D today with the upgraded seating. The rear seats are just as uncomfortable as ever. I find my courtesy car Audi A4 has more rear headroom.

Inquired about the X, and surprisingly I was told it has actually less storage space compared to the sedan, and the middle row seats can't be folded down. Quite alarming as the Model S has very limited luggage space and the X is not as practical?

Anyway, it's now between the 2017 E and 2016 S...

WEBSRFR

Seat comfort is a very subjective observation but we find the Next Gen seats of our Model S to be superbly comfortable and supportive, especially for long trips. I haven't analyzed the back seats all that much as I spend all my time up front but the rear seats are a huge improvement over the previous generation seat design.

Guests often comment how quiet and comfortable it is to be driven in the Tesla so I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

Your assertion about the "alarming" lack of cargo space in the Model S is quite bizarre as it is neither based in fact nor reality.

The Model S has 26.3 cubic feet of rear cargo space. With the second row folded, the Model S' cargo space increases to 58.1 cubic feet, and an additional 5.3 cubic feet of space can be found under the hood. This is due in part to the additional space from having no engine or fuel tank.

To put the Model S cargo space is perspective, the 2015 S-Class has 16.3 cubic feet of trunk space. So if you find the Model S cargo space "alarming," I'd imagine you'd faint in shock with the available cargo space in an S Class in comparison

Your further assertion that the Tesla Model X has even less cargo space than the Model S Sedan is even more bizarre and further removed from fact or reality as the Model X offers 77 cubic feet of storage capacity. If you need even more cargo capacity, you can always connect a trailer and tow up to 5,000lbs of whatever you want to carry with you.

I recently had the pleasure of getting a ride in a Model X courtesy of a friend who acquired a Signature Edition of the Model X and it is blows away any other SUV made by any other manufacturer at any price. The Model X makes the Mercedes GLS seems like a relic of the past by comparison. The panorama roof up front completely changes the driving experience of the vehicle and for a GVWR of 6,000lb+ SUV with 8 inches of ground clearance it is staggering that it can reach 60 mph in 3.4 seconds. It is a bit hilarious that this huge electric SUV can leave a Mercedes AMG Black eating dust while on the way back home with a car full of groceries

As much as I like the Tesla Model S and believe it is the best car in the world the Model X is an even better SUV. Mercedes and the rest of the Germans have their work cut out for them to match good old American technology, innovation, and software with what Tesla has accomplished with the Model X

MTrauman

WEBSRFR,


Wow!


You just got done telling W210 that the back seat comfort is very subjective. You then go on to tell W210 that guests of yours tell you how comfortable the back seat is and that you don't know what W210 is complaining about. Wow! Guess your opinion is the objective standard that everyone should follow even though you don't spend time in the back seat.


Think you should drink less Tesla cool-aid.

WEBSRFR

Wow,

As in everyone on an Internet forum is entitled to their own subjective opinion?

I just pointed out W210s subjective opinion on seat comfort and rebutted it with some of my own subjective opinions and that of guests who've been in my Model S. Imagine that

We seriously would not have spent the kind of money we spent on our P85D if we had issues about seat comfort as my girlfriend especially is quite picky about that.

Thankfully the rest of his assertions were not so subjective and I could easily point out some of the fallacies and nonsensical claims that were made concerning the cargo space of the Model S and the Model X with good old numbers.

As for the Kool Aid, I'd gladly take electric Kool Aid that gives me an instant high with maximum torque at 0 RPM any day over being high on toxic gasoline fumes from a sputtering combustion engine

Wolfman

Your lost your balanced viewpoint a long time ago and became a Tesla marketing outlet.
Which isn't bad if you are talking up the strengths of the car (of which there are many) but you are oblivious to other peoples preferences, especially when they don't match yours.

The Tesla latest gen. seats front or rear aren't anywhere close to the S-Class. You happen to call it subjective but it's the general consensus. Don't think even Elon Musk would say that...

W210

I sat in the rear seats as the primary purpose of my sedan is to drive adults, in this area, the Model S fails miserably. Improving over the previous generation with nicer nappa leather is great but still far from acceptable.

- seat cushion very short and low
- lack of headroom, I'm 6 foot 1, the C-Class, A4, 3 series all have more headroom
- the shape of the seat back forces you to hunch very uncomfortably
- no simple foldable armrest, need to deal with a detachable one?

I agree, I have driven the Model S, the drivetrain is quiet, seats are acceptable in the front. The rear seats are the problem.

All I see is the shallow trunk which based on my eyeballing, cannot take the two large suitcases I put my 2012 E.

While there may be a lot of interior space behind the rear seats, the space is literally divided into two parts, above and below the shelf divider. I'm not sure how exactly they measure the cubic feet volume but if it includes the wide but narrow space between the divider and the glass hatch, the volume is deceiving, as the space is not very usable.

I'm curious the Model S trunk volume if one only includes the rear "enclosed" trunk space. I had a Saab 9000 back in the day, while the trunk is huge, the official number was always larger than it deserves due to the similar misleading number including the area above the shelf and below the hatch.

My E class' trunk is 540L, just slightly larger than the 530L of the S, but the shape is user friendly and can accommodate my two large suitcases. For practicality, the shape of the trunk matters.

However, the Model S storage space can be improved folding down the rear seats which is not possible on the S550.

Maybe the salesman Nishal Kumar nkumar@teslamotoros.com wanted me to buy the Model S without waiting for the X or had his facts wrong. He said with 5 passengers, the Model S is more versatile and can store more bags than the X. I haven't seen the X so cannot comment on the space or how the third row seats fold.

I'm merely repeating what I was told by the salesman.

The X and S are built on similar chassis so it all depends on how much space the folded third row seats take up, and how sloppy the rear hatch is.

I was just shocked the second row seats don't fold in the X. I haven't seen the actual car, you have, does it have more or less trunk space than your S?

While the Model S can't serve our needs to replace a proper sedan due to the horrible rear seats, I was hoping the X could replace our minivan (which we typically fit in 7 large suitcases).

Maybe the X is a better replacement of a sedan. Similar price as the AMG E63. I just wish it is more luxurious with features like ventilated, massage, multi-contour seats, heads-up display, rear heated seats, self-closing doors, etc..

On the X photos, I see that they have further improved on the shape of the seat cushion making them deeper. Curious how they recline as the setback and cushion seem to be fixed.

I really wanted to like the Tesla due to its performance numbers, I really dig those ultra white seats with piano black finish. I hope they will add more features and make the cars more luxurious.

Does the X handle significantly worse than the S? I like the front large windshield.

drsaab

The rear seats of the model s are way worse than the s class in my opinion and I own a tesla. But the drive in the tesla is way superior in my opinion.

The model X should have way more room in the trunk with 5 person seating.


the tesla got a new 7.1 software update this weekend. Improving autopilot performance again and adding perpendicular auto park and adding some remote summoning in beta form to the car.
That is a huge benefit. Car always improves even a year after buying it.

Then new E class info just got put out and drive pilot, Auto lane assist change and remote parking from the app all mimic or exceed tesla on paper. Not sure in real life since its 6 months away. It far exceeds the s class as well so I am guessing the 2017 s550 will need to be updated.

WEBSRFR

Not sure if I'm oblivious to other people's preferences as long as they are reasonable. I've mentioned this before and I will say it again: If I were to be chauffeured to the airport or some other place where I'll be on the back seat, I would prefer the S Class. There is no disputing the fact that the S Class back seat is better. If I'm going to be driving, there's no other car I'd rather want to drive than a Model S. I bought the Tesla for my driving preferences, not the back seat amnesties that I will never use.

If I've become a marketing outlet for Tesla it is just a consequence of what a great car Tesla has managed to build. The P85D we own has been the single most satisfying car we've ever purchased. What is remarkable is not just that the car was so great when we bought it but it has become so much better and more capable with software updates over the last several months. No other car we've ever bought has performed better or become more capable with time. The tesla gets better each month we own it with software updates.

As I've said before, I'd agree that the S Class seats are better but when compared to the Tesla Next Gen seats I don't agree the difference is that substantial as far as the FRONT seats are concerned.

The Model S Next Gen Seats really are a great improvement over the previous seats. The Next Gen seats in the Model S are produced by Recaro, the same company that builds the seats for several high end Mercedes models along with Aston Martin, Audi, Porsche, and Bentley models. No one complains about the Recaro seats in Mercedes or other high end models. This whole notion that the Next Gen seats are somehow bad is subjective and not substantiated by the fact that the Model S is now on the verge of outselling the S Class even in Europe as presumably so many customers will not be opting for a Model S over an S Class if the seats were so bad. This whole assertion that the Model S Next Gen seats are somehow awfully bad is about as unreasonable as the recent assertion that the Model S lacks cargo space, which cannot be further from the truth as I pointed out.

Something else worthy of mention is the fact that the Model X has even better seats than the Model S. Tesla just brought seat production in-house for the Model X and the same seats in the Model X will sooner or later be available in the Model S. Tesla is upping their game with the interior and seating as they should and bringing it in-house so they are not dependent on suppliers.

The Model S is about to receive a facelift with a more streamlined look and a bunch of other amnesties. While we are perfectly happy with the Next Gen seats in our P85D, after the facelift the seats and the interior of the Model S are about to become even better.

mleskovar

Apples and oranges. The Tesla is an around the town well appointed sport luxury sedan. The S550 is a top tier appointed luxury cruiser that is more than usable around town.

WEBSRFR

Ah I think you have gotten the Model S confused with the Nissan Leaf

We've enjoyed many road trips spanning hundreds of miles in our Model S. I work a mile from home so in the past I average maybe 7,000 miles driven each year. The first year we owned the Model S, I managed to put nearly 18,000 miles on the car. Tesla just installed Superchargers all along I-81 on the East Coast all the way to Asheville NC. We can now travel just about anywhere we want to and by the end of this year pretty much the entire country will be covered in Superchargers.

This whole notion that the Model S is not suitable for long distances is more FUD that I'm sure those who make gasoline cars and are in denial about how long they can continue to sell cars with internal combustion engines would like you to believe... Oddly people who own Teslas are perfectly fine going about their lives and driving wherever they want to drive given that 97% of them would opt to buy another Tesla and that at the end of the day is the real acid test.

mleskovar

Fantasy land. I'm sure you can successfully drive thousands of miles on a trip in a Tesla but not at your convenience and choosing unless you choose a path that incorporates charging stations/stops and don't mind possibly waiting for hook up or the time it takes to charge. Your kool aid is strong if you think the Model S is a long distance touring machine for the masses. Nice short to medium haul vehicle, nothing more.

WEBSRFR

Right. As a Tesla owner we have no issues with going wherever we want to go as everywhere we visit or travel to are either covered by Tesla Superchargers or Tesla Destination Charges. There are an additional over 50,000 EV charging outlets across the US and you can find them on Plugshare.

But what do I know about owning a Model S because apparently you as a non Model S owner know so much about owning a Model S

mleskovar

That's what I said too

UrBusted

To the above I can just reply that in Europe, the United Kingdom to be specific, there isn't a way to complete my long journeys unless I'm willing to take detours lasting over a hour in total. You can't come on MBWorld and expect most of us to have changed our views over forum posts. The initial question was why didn't we buy the Model S and I think the reason why has been said on many occasions here. There is really only one way to convince some of us here to like the P85D here and that is for us to be given a Model S to live with for a week or for however long. Most of us here love our S Class', I think that to me it is the only car I really love. If I wasn't doing extension work to my house, I would have bought a S63 by now, even if the P90 is faster due to how much I love the car and I'm sure there are others here who feel the same.

WEBSRFR

Ah I see what you did there Very clever I must say.

I suppose we'd be out of luck if we travel to desolate pits where you frequent

mrmotoguzzi00

whilst driving all kinds of vehicles we drove a Tesla P85D. Actually liked it.... a lot... initially. Started looking at finances etc....

Nice ride, tons of room, Really quite inside as in low wind noise, power is ludicrous

Was all excited till i calmed down from the 0-90 sprints.....

Lotta money..... seems like they built in any cost savings into the price.

But the biggest issue and I guess it's just cause my wife and I really like driving cars was the lack of motor noise. Ya know ?

That was a deciding factor in getting the E550 Cab, exhaust noise, as such a lovely burble at low speed acceleration... tying back into the thread... if there had been a S550 Cab when we where looking that would have been in the running...

Mike

WEBSRFR

Tesla barely sold cars in the UK until about a year or so ago. Their Supercharger deployment is pretty aggressive and within about two years the amount of superchargers is about to double and it should be pretty easy to cover a small island like the UK

Tesla is having no issues convincing anyone to buy their cars as they have yet to spend any money on actual advertising. The wait for a Model X is over 6 months and the wait for a Model S just went up to 3 months and they will come close to selling more cars this year than they did during the entire existence of the company as their production is on track to just about double this year.

With the impending facelift, battery capacity is about to go up again along with interior refinements. We are now at about 300 miles of range and we are likely just two years away from 400 miles of range.

Also of note is that Porsche/VW/Audi are now pouring billions into long range premium EVs as they understand how much demand there is. Of all the impending vehicle releases, the Porsche Mission E is the car that I feel will most compete with the Tesla Model S. Anyone familiar with that car? It is essentially designed just like a Tesla Model S with a flat battery pack on the floor but with more of a premium German high tech interior.

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/mis...rnational.aspx

And I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but mostly setting the record straight when incorrect assertions are made.

mleskovar

If I thought you were just trolling I wouldn't have engaged. You can always tell when a person on a forum runs out of valid arguments when they resort to personal attacks.

UrBusted

I don't mean to be aggressive or anything towards you, but what incorrect assertions have been made? The main thing which all of us have said is that the S Class is much more luxurious than the Model S. You may not think of it as much, but when most of us have been spoilt with the S Class' interior, the quality of the leather e.t.c, it's quite easy to tell small differences.

WEBSRFR

Relax, it's all in good humor or at least that's how it was intended. You asserted (quite cleverly I might add) that we are limited to only travel to a handful of places and I asserted you travel to places no one else visits and it was not a personal attack in any way. You flipped my argument back at me, and I flipped it right back at you.

I get it that an EV is not for everyone. But the current EV infrastructure is more than sufficient for the vast majority of people who buy a Tesla and Tesla sales are almost doubling each year because the range and charging issues apparently affect mostly those who don't own a Tesla

We used to get gas about once a week and that is about 15 minutes wasted each time. With the Tesla we just plug it in when we get home like we do with our cell phone and that is a savings of about 12 hours each year not having to refuel our car at a sketchy gas station breathing in toxic fumes and sometimes out in the freezing cold.

Having to stop at a Supercharger for 30 minutes the handful of times in a year when we travel more than 220 miles at a time is hardly an inconvenience to us as while we wait we can get something to eat after 3+ hours of driving. I realize it is not an acceptable situation for you but for most people it is apparently not a major issue.

WEBSRFR

Most recently when this thread was resurrected assertions were made that the Model S "alarmingly" lacked cargo space and the Model X offered even less cargo space when nothing could be further from the truth as I pointed out citing the cubit feet of storage space in each vehicle.

I don't think there has ever been any argument with me that the S Class is more luxurious. That's absolutely true but Tesla is closing the gap and even in its current form, the Model S sales are not really affected. The same way we weighed everything and decided overall the Model S is a better car for our needs than an S Class other buyers are coming to the same conclusion.

Having sat in a Model X, I can tell you that Tesla is upping their game in the interior refinement and luxury of their cars. The Model X interior is still a representation of modern clean design but the seats and the interior is definitely a step up from our Model S. The seats are definitely further improved and I bet some of these improvements will be in the Model S refresh that is on the horizon.

Dema

The thread is really odd. I would expect it in some Camry forum, since Tesla is more matching to it. Generally I got impression that it is some sales pitch trying to push S class owners to waste money to push Tesla business. Ask yourself who owns Tesla and who owns S class? It is completely different category people having different status and social level. Tesla is for business ladies in mid management who has 2-4 kids. Backseat is used for driving kids only, you can sport 1-3 child seats there. They never drive aggressively, they stay in second from right lane. S class is status symbol and suitable for high management business men. It is completely different car showing your success and distinctive value. You do not have kids seats, because your wife drives Tesla, or you do not plan kids yet since focused on different stuff.