So we have some breaking news about Mercedes finally developing a serious EV. Unfortunately it is not designed to compete with the Tesla Model S or the upcoming Porsche Mission E but a smaller car to compete with the upcoming Model 3. Still I'm glad they are finally developing a modern car.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-sho...esla-fighters/

It seems the upcoming Mercedes EV is a smaller test bed for their larger EV that is the same scale as the S Class that is expected to come out in about 4-5 years.

 

I may be called cheesy or whatever for posting this but "It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning." If the S Class is more luxurious then it is more luxurious. It doesn't matter if something is nearly like it, one is better than the other. It's like when you bring up the performance of the car. An E63S can do 0-60 between 3.2 and 3.4 seconds whereas the P90 could've done 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. The E63 S is close but you'd say that the P90 is better in terms of performance.
Tesla's upping their game in terms of interior and increasing sales? Good for them. At the end of the day, I thought and still think that the S is the best in terms of my budget for a car.

 

Lets also talk about the reality from what I have seen and read

1) The update has broken the heater for some people as in they have no heat now. Car gets better with every update? Not really

2) Fit and finish is terrible for a $100,000 car

3) Interior is on par with a $60,000 car at best and in fact the new E trounces it

4) Range is 275 miles? Not really. Go to the Tesla boards and you will many many people claim 30% below what the stated range is and that is in normal conditions with them trying to save range. They compromise and say they wear a sweater in the car and not turn up the heat or drive 65 mph. If I spend $100,000 on a car I am not going to compromise on those things. If you live in most areas you are going to be driving from 65-85 on the freeway. If it is cold and you want to turn the heater on (assuming it works with this latest update) your range is likely not going to be 275 miles, but 150-175 miles.

5) Sure you do save time not having to go to the pump but on a 400 mile trip you have to stop twice with realistic driving. Where you stop is dictated to you and you have to eat what is next door to superchargers. If this car cost me $20,000 I am wiling to compromise. For $100,000 not a chance.

6) A Tesla caught on fire in Norway ( I believe). they still don't know what caused it (from what I am aware of), but the car was not on and I believe plugged in the charger. I have 3 kids that constantly go wait in the car (Not running)when it is in the garage for 5-10 minutes before a trip. They are ready to go by the time I get there with 3 iPads plugged in pulling current. There is 0% chance I would send my kids to a Tesla in the garage plugged in after seeing this.

Fixes before this becomes a true competitor to an S, A8, 750, etc.

1) Fix the range and it needs to go 275 miles driving at 75mph with the heat on
2) Battery swap and or way more superchargers
3) Completely revamp the interior
4) Put in top of the line amenities - Better heat warmers, heat coolers, windows shades, etc.

 

And there is obviously nothing wrong with that. People decide to buy with their money the best car they can find and it is a balancing act of all that the car has to offer.

Several people on this forum have opted for a Model S over an S Class and in the US the Model S has been outselling the S Class in the over $100K 4 door 5 seat sedan market for a while. Some here thought it would never happen but the same has now happened in Europe where the Model S is outselling the S Class in the same price segment for a large 4 door sedan that seats 5. And Model S sales can be expected to increase at least another 50% this year.

Based on sales, apparently for many the Model S offers a much more compelling experience for their money and really there is nothing like it n the market. I can't emphasize how great it is to have a car that gets better with software updates. It makes every other car seem like a relic. Since we bought our Tesla it can now drive itself and handle about 90% of all the driving when we drive long distances and now it is like we have a personal valet at home who parks the car in the garage and fetches the car for us when we are ready to somewhere.

Just saw this video of the Tesla summon feature in action. The tesla owner is sheltered from the rain and the car drives up to pick up the Tesla owner so he doe snot get wet. Realize every Tesla sold since 2014 just got updated with this capability overnight with a software update. It used to be you drive an S Class to see what the future of the car will be 10 years from now and this is partly why people bought one. That is no longer the case.

 

For every convert that purchased a Model S over a S-Class you mentioned here on this forum there are many that checked out both cars and got the S-Class instead.

It is tiresome to read your dribble about sales, software updates, etc. It's funny to see that you can't fathom that the features you care so deeply about may not be important to others.

I love EV's and love over the air software updates but until the right car comes along, it's just not that important to me. The Tesla simply has too many deficiencies as a luxury car to me. Simple as that.

Plus the Model S is becoming extremely dated looking IMO. In fact, as I see them driving in traffic I am happy I didn't get one. Great car, just not for me.

 

Wolfman,


Could not have said this better myself.


He just goes on and on about how wonderful the Tesla is.


I call this diarrhea of the mouth at this point about that great Tesla.


WEBSRFR--You should remember the OP's original question below. It did not ask why you selected the Tesla. GIVE IT A REST! This is not a Tesla Forum.


Question...If have you driven the Tesla model S vs S550, why did you choose the S550?

 

I mean, the videos are quite good but can I remind you that this is a S Class forum? If you really want to post updates on the car, there's a sub forum for other marques, I think this is the one https://mbworld.org/forums/other-cars-181/

 

I do wish, MB would give a similar experience to Tesla, as for the software updates. Like not having to buy a new model just to get updates to Distronics and self-driving new features.

This is not to disparage or something, but for MB owners, its close to impossible to switch to Tesla, it is just not a viable comparison. When I see interior of Tesla, or anyone else sees it, it looks a proto-type. The center console is literally a tablet glued to the dashboard, it looks really bad, as if work done in garage. For Toyota Prius owners, I would imagine Tesla would be a great fit.

 

I agree that it would be nice for MB to do software updates like Tesla does.


The good thing here is that to some degree Tesla is clearly changing the game. Competition is good and will ultimately move the car industry in the direction of over the air software updates like Tesla. For me the interior is not even close to my S Class.


Additionally the infra-structure of charging stations is not main stream in the US like gas stations and it takes too long to charge the car on long trips like the ones I do that are 1000 to 1500 mile one way trips for business. But if the interior was like the S Class and charging stations were mainstream like gas stations, I may have a different opinion. Electric cars are neat and fast IMHO. But I don't want to pay for the R&D that early adopters are paying for the Tesla electric cars.

 

So I had a good long test drive of the Telas S D90 in Ludicrous mode. Very impressive acceleration, easy to drive, good handling (can only compare to my 2012 E550) but it's unfortunately a deal breaker.

I can live with most of the short comings, even the inferior interior, lack of comfort features, but the rear seats are simply not acceptable. The angle of the rear headrests, together with the limited headroom makes the proposition not liveable. The whole point of a sedan is to transport passengers, the D90's rear seats are fine for very young kids but even for my children at 11 and 12, it's a no-go.

We may order a model X down the road, but the S is a little too cramped in the back.

 

In light of all the issues I've had with my E350 and the strong potential that Mercedes isn't going to be willing to repair it further and will be buying it back, I took another look at the Tesla.

I really wanted to like the Tesla. I like the lack of an internal combustion engine, lack of a transmission, as well as the company's overall attitude.

BUT.. I can't get past the interior and charging/range issues. Even if I wanted a Tesla, I'd still need a second car because of limited range and how slow it is to charge. I'm on the road for work a lot and 60+ hour recharge times aren't going to cut it. The super charging station ideas don't work for me either -- I don't have the luxury of waiting an hour in the middle of the workday for my car to charge.

My ideal car would have been the E-Class diesel/electric hybrid. 65-75mpg, 1200 miles per tank, real-world, not marketing hype. I still can't fathom why MBUSA doesn't see that it'd sell amazingly well in the USA. An "environmentally friendly" car that doesn't have any compromises, much like what the Tesla did for electric cars. I can see all of the Hollywood types ditching their Piouses for them.

As far as Mercedes providing updates, at least for my car, they have been. My car's Distronic indeed is doing more than what it was claimed to do, as in it appears to do everything the new 2017 E's Distronic says it will do. Distronic has also become very refined over the year I've had the car. Initially it was clunky, jerky, and acceptable but not polished. Now after numerous updates it's very human-like. For better or worse, they've also done numerous updates to the COMAND system in my car, engine management, and transmission management software as well.

To be honest, I *hate* the idea of updates -- Get it right the first time! I really dislike the idea of a company pushing out a product knowing it's half-finished and depending upon updates to make it work properly. Apple's very guilty of this. Either the product's ready or it isn't. I'm not going to do your beta testing without compensation. I can see adding features, but even then, why wasn't this done in the original testing?

 

I guess the only thing saving the financial troubles at Tesla, is now for the Tesla owners to launch their own desperate bid to evangelize Mercedes buyers to somehow shift to Tesla and save it. And I cant even blame them for doing so, with low oil prices, Tesla owners are nerve wrecked on their vanishing 100k investment

 

You haven't looked at the resale values......have you? I don't know of any used car that depreciates so little.

 

I think you are making a tall claim, a quick study of Autotrader 2014 list prices reveals the following:

A 14 Model S has average of 20K Miles and List Price of $57K
A 14 S550 with more miles, average of 25K Miles, has a List Price of $71K

Question: How much does exactly a new Model S costs? And more importantly what happens to this price when Tesla is no more? At the end of day its like a cordless battery powered lawn mower - battery no more

Reference data used:

 

Interesting that you would challenge my claim when you don't even know how much they cost. Then you cherry picked the cheap ones to prove your point The earlier Model S, with state and federal rebates, could be had for just over $60K. Battery size is a big factor in price and accessories add up quickly. The Tesla S doesn't really compare to the MB S.....in luxury, fit and finish, materials, room, features, or price. A new MB S is also about $20K+ more today. Fact is the MB S has a much higher real depreciation rate than the TESLA S. I shopped used for both. The Tesla doesn't suite me because crossing the desert on my 4oo+ mile trips to Arizona a couple times a year would be too much of a challenge.

 

I can assure you that Tesla owners do not have to launch any special bid to get people to buy a Tesla other than perhaps have their friends test drive the car.

I'm not sure you have seen the 2015 sales numbers for the upper end of the 4 door premium sedan market in the United States. Basically 2015 year was a great year for automakers -- unless if they ended up in the upper end premium sedan market where they had to compete for sales with Tesla.

Just look at the sales below. It is staggering that every single competing model in the segment the Model S compete in lost market share in 2015. Where did all that drop in sales for the upper end of the premium car market end up? Model S sales are up 51% year over year.

They managed this with very few outlets, essentially zero advertising, and still managed to eclipse the newly designed S Class that is just one year old with a Model S design from 2012. I'm sure some Germans are still in denial but these numbers are so striking that it is hard to dismiss the fact that an increasingly large segment of buyers are opting for a premium EV over a gasoline car after driving a Tesla.

Tesla is just getting started. A redesign of the Model S is on the horizon along with larger battery capacities and interior refinements. The Model X is in a whole different league and there is nothing remotely competitive to that in production and when the Model X production ramps up, we will see a similar drop in sales in the upper end premium SUV market.

Oh and you can expect Model S sales to increase another 50% this year. It's amusing to see a small company in California shake up the car industry

Source: http://electrek.co/2016/02/10/tesla-...ket-in-the-us/

 

There are lots of variations of the Model S, the basic model competes with the E while the top end ones with the S, not exactly fair.

 

As said above, the Model S doesn't exactly compete with the S or 7 or A8 or any other car in that segment. The Tesla Model S, all the way from the lowest to the highest model competes with the Mercedes E Class from the lowest to highest model. Roughly 4,000 E Class' are sold a month, using a base shape from 2010, with a more recent facelift. It doesn't really make sense to compare the sales from the Tesla Model S and the S Class. Here in the UK, the highest tier Tesla costs around £90,000 less than the highest tier S Class which is over 100% of the Model S P90D cost. The E Class range started from the E350 costs similar to the Model S, and so does the E63 S to the Model S.
I mean, some S Class owners may wish to cross shop the S Class and Model S, but what you're doing here is like us comparing the Mercedes C Class with a Tesla Model S.

 

This makes me chuckle--I needed a good laugh!


Why don't we put up the sales numbers for the Ford F150 too?


Yes Musk is a smart man that has brought a company like Tesla this far.


But let's get real here. The Model S is not even close to a comparison of an S Class--not even on the same planet!


WEBSRFR--Tesla has a cult following and major cheerleaders that are helping do a great job of marketing a newer technology (EV) and doing a good job of showing the way traditional car manufactures should start operating--for example the airwave software updates. BUT MAN, get real the MB S Class beats the living sh?? out of the Model S--Period. I can buy any car on the planet. I will take the S class 100 to 1 over the current Model S. Maybe someday I might just own both. But until all you Tesla cheerleaders have paid for all the high priced R&D, I will not be buying an overpriced battery powered Tesla.

 

Ok--after my prior post I am going to give a big plus to Tesla.


Just got of the phone with MBrace. I called them Sunday night to find out why my IHeart Radio was not working in my car.


They told me they are discontinuing the service for anyone that purchased a '16 S Class before December 3rd--WTF!


Except for the safety features of MBrace the people at MBrace are simply clueless. I now have to get a supervisor involved to figure out the hell is going on. I first was told on this call that Iheart Radio was going away. Then another person on the call told me that TuneIn Radio was going away after they just got rid of Mercedes Benz Radio. So basically no more Internet Radio. This is why Telsa will kick the living crap out of MB. MB has the better car but if they can't get the simple technology stuff fixed people like me will buy a Tesla. Will have to wait for my favorite supervisor to call me back. I am sure they hate me since I talked my favorite supervisor everyday for a month to get the internet radio and the driving journal to work. And they were working flawlessly until this past weekend when they randomly take technology away from you after you have been using it for almost 6 months telling you they are not offering it anymore. WTF!

 

Update--called MBUSA. They also confirmed MBrace is clueless. The only thing MBUSA confirmed about an early December date has to do with the production date of the car. Apparently an S Class produced after 12/1 or 12/3 will be able to use CarPlay--atleast that is what MBUSA told me. Like I said MB is clueless in the technology area as far as communicating this to their customers. Still waiting for my friendly MBrace supervisor to call me back so I can figure out how to get my technology to properly work in my S Class. I said this in a previous post--MBrace needs new management.

 

Maybe your local Tesla Gallery will let you borrow a Model S with a working radio and other modern technology for an extended test drive

 

To each his own. I obviously disagree with you and so do many others who ended up buying a Model S over an S Class.

Overpriced? For the technology and performance you get the Model S is an absolute bargain.

The technology and drivetrain in a Tesla is a good 5-10 years ahead of pretty much the entire automotive industry in terms of technology. The Model S came out in 2012 and still there is nothing even remotely competitive and there won't be for about at least another 2-3 years.

 

Good one!

 

Agree but it requires a specific niche buyer or a second car to depend on. The Tesla isn't comparable to the S class. It's closer to the E class.

No advanced technology I'm aware of. Electric cars were available over 100 years ago. The drivetrain is a variation of previously invented pieces. The battery technology has been around decades. The Tesla is previous technology packaged into a car. I prefer BMW's i3 concept with the range extender for practicality but the styling isn't my preference.