kath00

Hi there,

My SA ordered me a 2016 s550 but in the meantime, he emailed me today that he found a 2015 that had the exact configurations I have been looking for. However, somehow these numbers seem higher than I thought. Can someone who is smarter than me please look over these and tell me if this is right or not? I seem to remember looking at a $120,000 car discounted 11k a month ago with a monthly payment for $1400 with the same down?! Also I can't tell from this if the tax will be extra or not! PS: $5k down, 12,000mi

Thanks,

Kat

MSRP: 118650

LEASING PRICE: 107450

MILES: 12000 PER YEAR

DRIVE OFF: 5000

MF: .00162

RESIDUAL: 59325


BASE PAYMENT: $1573.24

TAX: $125.86

kath00

Oh NVM, I think I answered my own question. The MF is waaaaay high. OY! He may think I am unfamiliar with google. Hmmm.

Wolfman

MF should be no more than 0.00094 and no money down. Discount could by better by another $6k or so...

kath00

Another $6k off the MSRP. That would be nice.

This is what he wrote:

Good moring. Yes the total payment includes tax. Yes the base rate to us is .00062. The sell rate to you is .00102.

I am just going to stick to my preordered 2016 I think. But I am bummed by his salesman like qualities. It does not bode well for when the 2016 comes in.

Wolfman

If you are not happy with your salesman now, it's time to switch. No reason to stick with someone that isn't working hard for your business, especially if coming from BMW. Wether it's a 2015 or 2016 doesn't matter. Plenty of MB dealerships around...

kath00

Totally right.

jenz

You should figure out pricing on your 2016 now

You lose leverage if you wait until it arrives, you'll get sucked in by the ruby black, all the options as you want, etc salesman knows you won't want to walk away from it after you've seen and driven it

kath00

Sigh. They just won't. It is irritating. I may order another one from another dealer to have leverage, maybe in a different color. But I have the 2015's as a backups still. LOL. I don't think I will be suckered in too hard.

jenz

I'd walk to a new dealer but give the current one a last chance ie we need to agree on pricing now or I think I'll cancel my order

You know why they don't want to finalize pricing now, it won't be any easier come delivery

MTrauman

Kath00,


You need to find out why they won't negotiate with you on price for the 2016. I have no idea what is in your sales person head but your facts lead me to believe you have walked into the lion's den with your head ready to be bitten off.


I negotiated my 2016 price in June to my satisfaction. If I were to guess why your sales person won't negotiate it is because he will be able to sell you something else and does not want you to be tied to the 2016 order. I made sure I had a PO accepted by MBUSA as soon as I negotiated my deal on the 2016 with a bill of sale signed. My production date is scheduled for August 10th (last day of the first decade).


I have almost a 20 year relationship with my MB dealer and I would feel comfortable not getting a PO, bill of sale, or negotiating the price but I am a CPA with a law degree and my many years of business dealings tell me to negotiate the deal before you commit to it or you run the risk of stepping into the lion's den if you don't have honorable people on the other side of the deal. My MB dealer works hard for me since they know I will go anywhere in the country to buy my MBs if they don't treat me right. And there is atleast one time I did buy from an MB dealer in Denver because my dealer would not work with me on a particular S Class--I am on the east coast.


So I don't want to beat you over the head but "my radar" is up here since there are dealers (not just MB dealers but any car dealers) all across the country that will try to get the better end of the deal. Work towards a Win-Win deal and not a Win-lose deal. And remember dealers need to make money but do your homework.

WSH

Would never put more than $0 down into any lease

Wouldn't lease for more than 2yrs (realize China mkt is imploding so MB/P, etc will be buying out last 3-5mos of your lease to encourage you to lease another car in an already stagnant US luxury car mkt only likely to become more nonprofit in coming qtrs)

Choose a dealer in region w/lots of repeat customers and esp those repeat custs who lease lots of AMGs....even in LA/SF only 1-2 such dealers exist in either region and at each of those dealers only 1 or 2 salesguys have those repeat customers (who tend to be fairly sophisticated abt financials)

And some % (?2-3%) of any MB/P, etc are lemons so one's relationship w/dealer&salesguy often makes huge diffce in solving those unpredictable but annoying situations which cost more in wasted opportunity costs than nominal dollars for anyone affluent (like many repeat big MB buyers)

Disct diffces amongst reputed LA/SF dealers on 2yr (or really ~18mo) leases on a commodity car like any S550 (or any 65 for that matter) are trivial vs value of one's time

LovinMercedes

I agree with you, totally. Always negotiate with the dealer for your car BEFORE you order.

I had done many deals with my dealer before I ordered my last car. All of those deals were pre-negotiated and they had done very well by me.

In the enthusiasm of buying my present car, I decided not to concentrate on the deal itself, and trust them because I knew the GM for 20 years, and he had always done well by me.

Bad mistake, it did not turn out well. Next time, I won't be that stupid. It was very disappointing, to say the least.

hyperion667

can you elaborate on the last two sentences?

Wolfman

Agree with you on shorter lease duration. My sweet spot is 30month with 6 months pull-ahead. It's also the best deal on MB leases due to higher residual rates (no advantage to go 36 months).

Dealers like you better too as they sell more cars to you.

BklynMarc

+1. I've been thinking about this all morning and trying to put to words why this is the case. The simple fact is that you have lost the ability to bluff (for lack of a better term) in the negotiation.

There are always asymmetries of information when you negotiate -- there are things that you know that the dealer doesn't know and vice versa. One key piece of information is whether you are truly interested in a particular car. If you were to buy a car off the lot (i.e., non-ordered), the dealer never knows what your position is vis a vis a particular car unless you tell him/her. Not so with an ORDERED car --that information is implicit in the order.

When you order a car, you have removed a variable that gives you some leverage over a dealer, namely "I don't want THIS car and I will continue to look until I find the perfect car for me." Unfortunately, you do want the car and the dealer knows you do. And for that reason, the dealer is able to ATTEMPT to play hard ball.

What everyone else has said in this thread is true -- you have to have the discussion on price at the time of ordering. Unfortunately, you cannot rely on someone dealing with you in good faith after the fact. Then it's always an uphill battle. Get the car and the price you want (think of it as a combo) and then give the dealer the order and sale they want.

The good thing here is that all this information helps you now. As my econ professor once said "things may seem inflexible in the short term, but EVERYTHING is elastic in the long term." We've got four to five months to get you a car. That amount of time in car terms is a lifetime. We can find you a car. Your dealer is not the sole source of S Classes. Try calling another dealer tomorrow with your car options AND price.

Wolfman

+ most sales people are lazy. You basically need to provide the parameters of the deal; then they have numbers they can take to their manager.

Know how far the manager will go. At the end of the day, the just want to close the deal that day and move on to the next.

icebeam

Take the MF and multiply it by 2400 to get the APR. That is 3.89% in this case. Seems high given you can get a new car loan for 2.7%

kath00

Ok thanks everyone. So I took the afternoon off of work today (ARGH) and went to another dealer in my area (I am in So Cal). After searching the inventory for 2015, we decided to order a 2016 as well and I told him that I had another one on order with another dealer but was not sure about the color and wanted to look at something else. Since I have a very specific config in mind (including the pricy stereo upgrade), he agreed that best would be to order. He went ahead and put in the order with no deposit, no contract etc.

He too refused to negotiate the price. He said there are no incentives on the 2016 models and the terms of the lease will depend on the current MB programs at the time of the car's arrival (October). I told him I understood but others had the sales price down before ordering. He said basically that right now the 2016s are selling for MSRP with no discounts.

The build came to $121,000 on the website. I told him I would want to see that price down when the car arrives and he just said, "OK." UGH. I am so annoyed AND I missed some work because of this. Is it just my area??? Why are these SAs so rigid on thinking they can get MSRP on a car. I have never in my life paid that on any car for any terms, lease or purchase.

So what sort of discount could I anticipate in October on a 2016? I know people say to aim for 8-10% off on 2015s but I do understand that 2016 is the next year's vehicle so it may not be discounted as much. I am also assuming the MF and so on are higher on 2016?

Thanks so much for everyone's input. FRUSTRATING!

icebeam

Hello,

First off let me say i'm not very good at being politically correct (outside of work) and that my comments are directed to try to get you the best deal and not hurt your feelings. I think you are being quite a pushover when it comes to getting what you want here. I once had a dealership tell me that "Mercedes Benz does not discount cars under MSRP" I responded with "I doubt that" and he just kept saying how great their cars where and how many patents they had for safety and how he could ABSOLUTELY not take anything off MSRP. I said look there is a Audi, BMW, and Porsche dealership across the street and they are all willing to order cars under MSRP. MB is no more special. The reason I have the ability to buy a car two times over the average household income is because I'm not retarded and I don't fall for BS like this. If you want to continue to be coy I can take my business to one of the other 368 dealerships in the US and have them ship the car to me for a nominal fee. I gave this dealership a chance as they are my local dealership. Now, I demand you get your new car manager before you have to explain why you lost a deal.

I get into the managers office and he tries to pitch the same BS. I said look, here is what I want to pay for the car. Do you want to make some money vs no money and best of luck on the next sucker to try to get a 15 pounder on. 15 pounder is car talk for someone they make 15k on. (backend and front counts towards this number) Long story short he said my number was way too aggressive and I said "ok, I don't think it is, I'll just call some other dealerships. I got out of my chair and when I was leaving got told "ok, ok, ok, MR. MYLASTNAMEHERE we can do it!

Bottom line is if they want to treat you like some dumb person that didn't work insanely hard for your $ you need to be a jerk. Your lucky that socal has more benz dealerships then any other place. Go to another one on this weekend (don't waste any more time from work) and ask to speak to the new car manager. Skip the sales agent. Say I know I want this car, this is what I want to pay (you must have a number if you just ask for a good deal you will NEVER get one) I want to order this with these options and I want to agree on the price and residual value now and I will take whatever money factor term MB has when the car arrives for that month. Do you want my business or do you want your competitor to have it? If he gives your crap... Just walk.

I hope this was helpful for you but when buying cars I buy with an iron fist and it works well. I have never seen a dealership that was truly about repeat business and as others have alluded to above they made the mistake of trusting the dealer. Bottom line: The mindset I carry when walking into a dealership is they are going to try to duck me all they can but I am smarter, more aggressive than any sales person and I WILL get what I want and they can duck anyone else.

Full Disclosure: I used to take the approach hey I want you to make something but not to much and for me to get a car. I used to be so nice (just like all my other business dealings) but at car dealerships it just doesn't work. They see niceness and based on how nice you are is how far they feel they can make you take it up the REDACTED.

Sincerely,

You jaded but get what he wants car buyer.

icebeam

You ever have that really good trick and you know if you share it it's not going to work anymore. We'll I'll be super nice.

When my friend wanted a custom Porsche 911 turbo s order they were crazy about MSRP only. He then had a great idea. He sent me in to order the car the way he wanted no deposit. The car was made and they called me when they got it. I said I'm so sorry I cant complete the purchase due to blah blah blah. Then my friend goes in and negotiates on the car way below MSRP and drives home the next day. This might be the move for you.

mikey94025

All is not lost, you still have control when the car arrives and whether you want to purchase it or not. At that time the dealership will have all the leasing program figures for that month, you can then negotiate the sales price (i.e., amount below MSRP), understand what you're paying for financing (multiply the leasing MF by 24 to get APR), and keep the MF down (i.e., they don't add much over the base rate for extra financing profit). Only the residual % is set and can't be negotiated.

It's true that you'll be excited because the car is here and you'll want to drive away, but this is a similar appeal to if you were buying a car off the lot today. You just need to be strong and demand a satisfactory deal: Don't pay MSRP for an S-class, see what others are paying for 2016s, work with other competing dealerships (or threaten to), etc. I think that the dealership will be just as motivated to get this customized car off their lot and sold quickly to the original requester (you) vs. add it to their inventory. This assumes that S-classes are not flying off the lots, at extremely low inventory, and selling at MSRP -- The case now so very likely to remain true when your 2016 arrives.

I also want to point out that in the end, what really matters is your own happiness. Some people care about getting the very best deal and lose sleep if this doesn't happen and are willing to put a lot of time into the car purchasing process. You may just be happy that you didn't simply walk in and pay MSRP, which you won't given the information that you've learned so far, and got a decent deal. Just enjoy your new ride!

impex4

Is 15% off msrp triple net? Possible?
Then a fleet coupon on top of that?
Couple of nice cars out there i am considering

icebeam

Tell me about said fleet coupon you speak off.

impex4

Usaa ama aba ada united premier etc

icebeam

How much is the coupon for?