jenz

Red pill warning

2014 S550 @ end of June 2014
MSRP 113k negotiated to 101k
2yr / 7,500mi
residual 63%
buy rate MF 0.00144
1,500 'fees' rolled up
tax est 9%

monthly = ~1,700 vs your ~2,000

numbers can change *slightly* each month but the only way to explain a 300 higher payment than 'buy rate' math is ...

jenz

I find dealers more stubborn on MF than MSRP

I think they are used to people negotiating MSRP so it is expected, and most lessees just sign the paperwork without even mentioning much less negotiating the MF

success

What is the correct way to negotiate MF. My dealer told me this months MF on the S550 is .00047 which comes out to a little over 1%. Do I tell him I want it lower by how much?

impex4

please delete

Wolfman

Do you actually realize how ridiculously low that MF is? Nothing to negotiate here IMO.
Consider BMW. The end of life 7 series has an MF of .00128 (over 3%). MB AMG's are closer to 5%

cjaredscott

Hi everyone,

I got quoted on a $111,365 MSRP S550 4MATIC yesterday...here's the deal:

$1,138.36 per month, $0 cap cost reduction, 12,000 miles per year @ $0.25 overage, 30 months.

Jared

jenz

What are the various inputs, negotiated price, MF, etc

cjaredscott

dealeTo be honest, I'm not sure what the gross cap cost and MF are. The residual is 57%. I've done a good amount of business with this salesman, and I just had him send me the best he could do...but they didn't include the MF and gross cap cost on the lease worksheet they sent me. I'm thinking it's about $15k off, but I'm not certain. Haven't signed yet. Was also looking at a 750Li before, and have to get my trade-in sorted.

My 750Li offer was $1,096 per month for 36 months, $99,750 MSRP, negotiated price is about $12k off, 55% residual, 12,000 miles per year, 0.0013 MF. Took me an hour to negotiate that, and then another two hours after that to appraise the trade and further negotiate, whereas MB took me a phone call to get my lease offer, and the appraisal shouldn't take more than 15 minutes.

The entire reason I was looking at the 750Li was because I didn't think I could get an S550 4MATIC of that MSRP for this lease... Now I just need to decide...

Not to turn this into a 750Li vs S550 thread, but the main differences are the S-Class is more expensive (even more so than the numbers suggest because of the fact the 750Li has BMW Ultimate Service, whereas with MB Prepaid maintenance, it would be an extra $2k, cover 1 less year, and not include brakes, unlike the BMW, which also includes brakes), it has a significantly better interior design, probably has a more luxurious drive whereas the 7 is probably better to drive (have to drive the new S to determine), the 7 has an alcantara headliner (which I really liked actually compared to the cloth in the S550), heated rear seats & four zone climate control, and iDrive, which I think I prefer to COMAND, even though I've been using COMAND as long as it has existed. Both cars look good, but the new 7 is almost at dealers, and this one is outgoing... Benz also has better safety tech (steering and pedestrian collision avoidance)... Also, the S has more presence, which I'm not sure is a good or bad thing...also, the dealers don't have any color combinations I want, whereas the 750Li has the perfect colors with the perfect options...but Benz will probably give me a better trade-in price...

Wolfman

The MF on the MB will be half that of the BMW, if not better. Biggest difference is that the MB is fresh into the product cycle (facelift MY18) while the 7 series is end-of-life and prices will degrade much more in Oct when the new model is in show rooms.

Besides that, if you like the Alcantara headliner, simply pick a car with exclusive nappa. That interior is much better than the BMW (better leather quality and more leather). Given the low MF on the S-Class, even a $120k car will be very close in price...

kath00

Your analysis of the differences is EXACTLY what I concluded too. I am driving a 2yo 7 series Msport and it drives better than every s550 I have ever driven (including the 2015 demo drive I did about 3x plus my parents' 2014). However everything else I like better about the MB than the BMW.

FYI, I pay $1040 for my lease on my current BMW and it's a $110k car from 2 1/2 years ago. So I am not sure you are getting a great deal on that lease (mine was 3y 12,000mi). For MB, I ordered a 2016 but the 2015 model leases were quoted to me around $1350/mo for about $115k car. $3000 down each time. I held off because I thought that was too high.

Now the MB 2015s are much deeper discounted, which means the 2 makers should be closer in monthly payments. I think the 2015 7series will ultimately be cheaper because 2016 is a bigger redesign. But I also am hearing that there are a LOT of 2015 MBs around so that should translate to better deals as the months go on. I think best time to buy will be late Sept/Early Oct when there is still good stock and the new cars have arrived...

JMHO

cjaredscott

Hi, if you don't mind my asking, what region are you in? I'm trying to see if, perhaps, the differences could be based on state, because that happens sometimes.

The price you have is very interesting though...we're getting exactly what TrueCar is saying to get off and more than KBB, and I went hard...doesn't seem they can go much further. I actually got it down to like $1,050-$1,060 by putting down $700 as a cap cost reduction, because they offered up another $700 or something similar to that. Though, it also could be because there is only one 750Li.

After shopping around, though, we seem to be getting one of the best deals available in my area, so there may not be much more I can get.

Interesting, though, that I seem to have considerably better offers on the '15 S550 than you, but you got a better deal on the 750Li than I am (and I'm looking at the outgoing model)...

Honestly, I think the 750Li will drive much better (oddly enough, I love the MB 4.7/4.6 liter V8s cold start sound very much -- it's the same in the S550 as in my GL450, and the 750Li just seems silent).

Also, for the service the MB would cost me at least $2,500 more, plus $2k in brakes total (hopefully only that) during my lease term (thanks extra miles!). I also have to pay an extra $1k for tires (explained later), and $417 extra per year for mbrace ($240 per year, plus $28 per month vs 4 years free and $199 for concierge services).

But I do like the S-Class's interior much better, without a doubt. And the ambient lighting is much better. Also, the massage seats and audio system.

Even taking that into consideration though, I think iDrive is so much better than COMAND, and the BMW has an alcantara headliner, which I love, and four-zone climate control and heated rear seats (an extra $3.1k, $3k, $2.6k each, but admittedly with much more included -- but while the outboard rear seats are nice, do I really need heated armrests?). Plus the HUD and heated steering wheel.

In addition, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the S-Class's exterior without the $5.9k Sport Package, compared to the 7 series, especially from the front. And, all the S550s that meet my needs (not including the alcantara headliner, four-zone climate, and heated rear seats) have the 20" rims, which come with summer performance tires, and I'm in Northern New Jersey! Tire change. Plus, I don't want to see what it looks like when I put the C300 next to the S550...

Although, the S-Class has more safety tech and is not the outgoing model like the BMW 7 series. But, they don't have any S-Classes with color combinations I actually like...

For a cost comparison, if you take the extra costs, and divide them into the lease term of the S-Class (just for comparison purposes), that comes to $1,363.39. If I added all the extra options to make me happy onto that, then the lease comes to $1,511.86 (changed MSRP in my own lease calculator with what I believe to be the correct MF, or about correct, and took the same percent off the new MSRP, then took the extra costs and divided them into 30, for comparison purposes).

So the 750Li is $1,096 whereas the S550 would be about $1,363.39 without all the extras (for comparison purposes), and that is a big difference, and I'm still sacrificing some (performance, drive, four-zone climate, heated rear seats, alcantara headliner, exterior design (unsure), iDrive & controls, HUD, color combinations, etc), while gaining some (better interior design, steering feature for the self driving, massaging seats, audio system, etc).

I've already had plenty of MBs, and a couple of S-Classes, and I think I might be looking for something different, especially because my MB dealer's service department has really been causing me issues and not fixing problems, (see my threads on my 2015 C-Class, which I haven't added any of the latest developments to) and is not providing the service I expect from Mercedes-Benz...one the good side, though, they give me MLs, GLs, and Es as loaners...but the BMW dealer said they'll give me 7 series...

I don't know though, and I know I've already said all of this, but I'm going to have to really think about it and compare them...

cjaredscott

True points. Unfortunately, none of the dealers around me have a car in inventory with exclusive nappa, and I need to get into a car soon, because the warranty on both of my GLs just ran out! Ordering isn't an option, and it would also make me have to spend much more, because the discounts would be minimal compared to picking a '15 off the lot.

I also had to consider the additional costs for the S-Class (tire replacement to get rid of the summer tires, service, mbrace, etc). Plus, in addition to the exclusive nappa, I outlined everything else that I'd need to get to have comparable equipment (which actually makes the S-Class better equipped -- or for my needs, in some cases, unnecessarily equipped). See my long post above for everything!

kath00

I am in Northern Cali, SF area. You are right, each area probably sells differently and has different excess inventory... we are near Silicone Valley so take that with a grain of salt. LOL

Wolfman

First off, decide on what car you want, not what's available at your dealer.
Once you got that, for BMW contact Greg at pacific BMW. He will work you a great deal. If your MB dealer is worth anything, he will get you the car you want from another dealer's inventory for the same or similar deal.

Re. The added costs for service can be reduced via pre-paying for it by 60% (or similar). I use the basic mbrace service. For pre '16 models it costs money but it's worth it to me. We had a 7 series and their online an emergency services were terrible.

For example, my wife was driving the BMW and got rear-ended and was sitting in the middle of the intersection during rush hour.
She pressed the sos button and ended up in an argument with the support person because she demanded the VIN number of the vehicle before helping!

Plus the car wouldn't start anymore because the active headrest deployed, which cuts the ignition. That meant waiting for 45 min. for the tow truck in the middle of the intersection.

With tires, both cars have crappy runflats. I had replaced the tires of the BMW with normal all-season tires for proper ride quality and will to the same with th Pirelli's on the MB. Best money spent...

cjaredscott

Ahh lucky! Northern California, especially San Francisco, Monterey/Carmel, and Big Sur are some of my favorite places to visit!

cjaredscott

Very true, I do have to decide which car I want (I am liking the sport of the BMW a lot right now, and that's becoming a huge factor in my purchase, along with the deals, and I also kind of like the look of it better, at least compared so an S550 without the Sport Package. But that interior in the S550..... Also, as much as I love Mercedes-Benz and consider myself an enthusiast (they're my favorite car company, followed by Porsche), I'm sort of looking for something different, and I'm still very upset about the service I've been given recently (see my C300 thread, but I haven't updated it with the latest developments recently), but I just moved away from the dealer we've been using for the past 16 years to another to fix that). I did a quick Google search for Pacific BMW, and I saw one in California, so unfortunately I'm on the wrong coast if that's the one . The prices I included in my previous posts were the pre-paid prices according to mbusa.com, but we will have driven 50,000 miles before the end of that lease, so I had to take the 4 year prepaid and add another non-prepaid year (we got the prepaid maintenance on my GL and we got it on the C300 too, and we'll never get another MB without it).

Thank you very much for sharing that experience, as I never checked how good the BMW Assist crash services are, and that's very important to me (and now has me a bit concerned about the BMW). I'm going to take that, and your experience, into serious consideration before purchasing. If I may ask, though, what year was that? I just want to do some research on it and I want to see if perhaps they've changed (or not) since then.

I agree, we have no intention on keeping the run-flats that come with both... We plan to get Pirellis or Michelins on either (they're the only two brands I've purchased from as of the past few years, except for when one of my MBs unfortunately comes from the factory with Continentals).

Thank you!

LovinMercedes

Thinking about a S class Coupe for my wife. Anyone know if the same kind of discounts or deals apply for the Coupe.

Specifically, on a Coupe, what can one expect to get off MSRP?

cjaredscott

To be honest, I don't think you'll get anything more than a couple of thousand dollars off the S-Class Coupe right now, since it is a new model this year and availability is limited. Though, if you're a good negotiator, have a good dealer/a dealer that will try to move the car, and some time on your hands, then you could probably negotiate about 7%-10% off the MSRP.

But that car is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. And the interior is beautiful too. Worth every penny IMO.

Which one would you be looking at, the S550, the S63, or the S65?

LovinMercedes

She would only be looking at the S550. The S63 and S65 are way too much power for her.

Frankly, if we can't get a great deal, we will probably pass.

We originally went in to look at the new GLE SUV and were extremely disappointed in that car. Didn’t like the interior finishes, and didn’t like the drive. It all felt cheap for my taste.

We looked at the SL as another possibility but that car is ancient. The NAV screen looks like it’s from the early 2000’s.

Anyway, if we don’t get the S Coupe, I may try to talk her into the new 7 series Individual. I bet the car will be nice, and then we can switch on and off with each other. That would be a car I would like to drive.

I had a 7 series Individual several years back, and the Individual line is gorgeous. Incredible upgrade over the regular 7, and every bit comparable to today's MB interior. Contrary to popular opinions of most, I did not have a lot of trouble with my car. Not perfect, but not bad.

Time will tell.

cjaredscott

Glad to know what you think of the GLE. We have a GL, and we'd probably get another one when our lease is up in February, if it weren't the same exact car that we'd be getting for another 3 years, just with a smaller, less powerful, less refined and more strained engine (wish the GLS would come out a year earlier). I haven't been in a new GLE yet, SUV/Coupe/thing or SUV, but they were trying to sell us one to replace our GL at the end of our lease. Just as a note, with a different wood trim and maybe some upgraded leather it would be a lot better.

The SL is definitely in need of a refresh, and that should be due in 2017.

Interesting you mentioned the 7 (we're signing either a '15 750Li or a S550 this week, see above for more)...I was going to mention the 6 series. The 650i Coupe and GranCoupe are both simply stunning, and if you get the right options (nappa leather in the 640i, M Sport/M Edition on both), it is a stunning car in looks, is pretty luxurious (not S550 Coupe level, but still pretty luxurious), and probably a touch quicker than the S550 Coupe. Plus you will get an amazing deal on those ('15 GCs going for $15k off, at least that was the deal I had lined up before I decided to look at the 7). Honestly, if I didn't want a sunroof that opens and something more spacious in the back than a 6 series (which doesn't seem to be an issue for you/your wife because you're looking at coupes anyway), a 650i xDrive GranCoupe would, undoubtedly, be the car I get over the 750Li and the S550...it's beautiful, quick, and has 4 doors...but I want more space, especially in the back, and a sunroof that opens...and every dealer around me only has '16s for the 650i xDrive GCs, and they aren't taking much of anything off those right now because they just came out.

I wouldn't sweat too much over BMW Individual anymore, I'm looking at the 7 series, and the 750Li's standard nappa leather is just as good as any Mercedes-Benz nappa (MB could be a touch softer), I think. I actually think I prefer it over BMW's Merino Individual leather in some ways nowadays (years ago, or if you get a model that doesn't have their nappa in a color you like, then the Individual definitely seems worth it, or if there is a paint color that you especially like).

LovinMercedes

Are you happy with the drive of your GL? Which engine is it? If my memory serves me correctly, I've driven all of them, and for me, the 550 was the only acceptable one. The others were just not very good. Granted, these were rentals, but I assume there would be no difference.

Frankly, I think the drive of the Escalade is better than all of them. Did I just say that?

cjaredscott

We have a 2013 GL450 (and a first-gen too, but that's another story), and the engine (the V8 one that is now only available in the 550 and not in the 450 anymore) is more than adequate...except for the fact it was replaced with a not-nearly-as-good V6, which is one of the reasons we're probably not getting another one. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this as well. (Why, why Mercedes did you just have to replace the GL450's great V8 with the not-so-great V6 to match the rest of the SUV lineup? ) Did you drive the 8 or the 6?

Also, it's not that the V6 is that much slower on paper, as in C/D's testing it was only 0.1 to 0.2 seconds slower, but it feels slower, and it requires revving higher to have the same highway passing as the V8, which is really undesirable. It's also not nearly as smooth to me, which is a big issue because that 4.6L V8 that's also basically the same one that's in your S550 (but detuned slightly) is so, super smooth. But then again, this was a service loaner we drove while our GL was being serviced, and it was probably well under 1,000 miles and not broken in...

As to the drive, it's no sports car, but I think you know that. As a luxury SUV, though, it's damn good. It drives like something smaller (as far as SUVs go) and more like a car than you'd think. The 362 hp V8, which was shared with the 550 (again, now replaced by a V6), is only like 0.3 seconds behind the 550 to 60 and has lots of torque which makes everyday driving very easy and relaxing. I think it drives better than the Escalades and the Range Rovers I've driven, and C/D seems to agree (which is rare...typically, they don't like Mercedes for whatever reason).

I wish they kept the GL450 going, with that super-sweet V8... It's just ruined in my opinion with the V6. And brought the GLS out earlier, so I could get it when my lease is over instead of being presented with the choice of having the same car for another 3 years but with a nowhere near as good engine or getting into something else (that X5 50i was nice...haven't driven the new Range Rover yet, or the new XC90 or Escalade).

Wolfman

In May I was offered $20k off a S-class coupe ($152k MSRP), but the high MF and low residual made it equal to a AMG GTS which was more interesting.

Same discounts should be available on the edition 1 coupe.

LovinMercedes

Wolfman, you have a PM.

Wolfman

We had a 2012 750li xdrive and the tech is identical to the 2015 model.