2015 S550 vs LS 460 FSport
#26
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Austin, the more high-end the luxury vehicle is, the more it has depreciation. You heard correct advice, if you are worried about lower depreciation buy a Camry. If you are painstakingly worried with reliability get a Toyota brand - they are simple cars, with fewer things that could go wrong. With MB, there are lots that could go wrong. They are very reliable but not compared to a Toyota, and that is easily understood generally by all. You are fretting too much, enjoy your next car whichever it may be.
Correct...
But..... from a $$$ POV I'm gun shy bec. of my S63 experience. I also want to keep the car for > 5 years (don't like car payments)... and am worried about all this stuff I hear about how expensive it is to maintain after the warranty expires (in addition to what you read about issues with quality and the car needing to be in the shop)
But..... from a $$$ POV I'm gun shy bec. of my S63 experience. I also want to keep the car for > 5 years (don't like car payments)... and am worried about all this stuff I hear about how expensive it is to maintain after the warranty expires (in addition to what you read about issues with quality and the car needing to be in the shop)
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'09 S63 AMG
Then you should get yourself a Camry. Preferably with the least powerful engine and in loser trim. Oh and make sure it's boring old silver to help the resale value.
To paraphrase Milton Friedman: there's no such thing as affordable luxury. Whether it's the LS 460 or the S550, you're going to have to bring money to enjoy whichever of the two you choose because if you want to play, you have to pay. Simple as that.
To paraphrase Milton Friedman: there's no such thing as affordable luxury. Whether it's the LS 460 or the S550, you're going to have to bring money to enjoy whichever of the two you choose because if you want to play, you have to pay. Simple as that.
To paraphrase Warren Buffett: To some, people like you who just throw $$$ and don't make sound prudent decisions...probably don't have much to begin with
Last edited by AustinGuy; 02-10-2016 at 11:11 PM.
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'09 S63 AMG
Austin, the more high-end the luxury vehicle is, the more it has depreciation. You heard correct advice, if you are worried about lower depreciation buy a Camry. If you are painstakingly worried with reliability get a Toyota brand - they are simple cars, with fewer things that could go wrong. With MB, there are lots that could go wrong. They are very reliable but not compared to a Toyota, and that is easily understood generally by all. You are fretting too much, enjoy your next car whichever it may be.
Please keep references to Camry's, Fiat's and Ugo's out of of this discussion.
The fact that there are lots of pros/cons is precisely the reason that many out there (including this BBS) want to weigh in. We're talking about high end LUXURY auto's..... 1 having a long standing reputation for quality & reliability and the other not so much. So my main reason for wanting to hear others' opinions is to understand the reliability of the W222's and what this whole "Mercedes is unreliable and is always in the shop" stuff is all about. I want truthful unadulterated opinions. Stupid arguments about buying Camry's makes me wonder about the IQ level of those who bring up such....
So yes I do want to enjoy my next car.... but having had a sour experience selling my S63 I'm wondering if much has changed since 2012 with the new W222
Last edited by AustinGuy; 02-11-2016 at 12:48 AM.
#29
Me a jackass? You are the one who wants to play, but you are not willing to pay and paraphrases a textbook champagne socialist, not me.
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I'm not detecting any jackassness here.........and I have a strong sense for it too
#31
Why don't you get an Extended limited warranty and pre paid maintenance for as long as possible if one of your worries is maintenance costs. I believe you can go about 7 years with that. It should nearly cover your 5-8 years of ownership anyway and you can drive the awesome car you like.
#32
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'09 S63 AMG
Playing doesn't imply paying stupid $$$. .....
If I really wanted to play with silly $$ I'd just buy a Bentley and really get myself in a hole.
Last edited by AustinGuy; 02-11-2016 at 03:51 PM.
#33
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
I think a quick search through W222 forum shows that there is no such thing as "Mercedes is unreliable and is always in the shop" situation, so I am not sure where that is coming from.
I am reading about minor gripes which you can find in any forum, so I am not sure what other opinions you are expecting.
That said, AMG's have the worst resale value of any Mercedes for as long as I can remember. Nothing new and nothing bad.
Most AMG's owners I know bought or leased their cars knowing that but the fun factor offsets the extra cost of ownership.
This literally can't be taken into account when comparing MB versus Lexus.
#34
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Austin, I considered (and researched) the same two vehicles before choosing the 2016 S550. I've owned three "Lexi" and they are fine cars, but the Lexus LS will be TOTALLY redesigned next year (2017). Some insiders predict it will look very similar to the Porsche Panamera.
I couldn't be happier with the S550, but I'm really curious to see what the new Lexus LS will look like.
I couldn't be happier with the S550, but I'm really curious to see what the new Lexus LS will look like.
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'09 S63 AMG
There are a lot of pre-conceived notions about MB reliability in your comments.
I think a quick search through W222 forum shows that there is no such thing as "Mercedes is unreliable and is always in the shop" situation, so I am not sure where that is coming from.
I am reading about minor gripes which you can find in any forum, so I am not sure what other opinions you are expecting.
That said, AMG's have the worst resale value of any Mercedes for as long as I can remember. Nothing new and nothing bad.
Most AMG's owners I know bought or leased their cars knowing that but the fun factor offsets the extra cost of ownership.
This literally can't be taken into account when comparing MB versus Lexus.
I think a quick search through W222 forum shows that there is no such thing as "Mercedes is unreliable and is always in the shop" situation, so I am not sure where that is coming from.
I am reading about minor gripes which you can find in any forum, so I am not sure what other opinions you are expecting.
That said, AMG's have the worst resale value of any Mercedes for as long as I can remember. Nothing new and nothing bad.
Most AMG's owners I know bought or leased their cars knowing that but the fun factor offsets the extra cost of ownership.
This literally can't be taken into account when comparing MB versus Lexus.
Right now I'm soliciting bids from Lexus and MB dealers: There are only 2. I repeat TWO 2015 LS 460's available w/in 500 miles of Austin (and that includes DFW, Houston and San Antonio!!) Yo! TWO. The 2 Lexus dealers won't budge on price (1 is 71k the other is 67K). The MB dealer OTOH won't stop spamming me! He literally calls me 2-3 times a day EVERY DAY! Each day I make up a new excuse why I'm not ready to buy (I should just tell him that I'm waiting on the guys at mbworld to give me the verdict )
Mind says LX460..... heart says S550.
I really don't believe in leasing. To me leasing = rent a car for 2-3 years and then do it over while holding 0 equity and nothing in hand. I'd rather OWN a car after 5-8 years, spend little to nothing maintaining it and then decide whether to buy new or continue to use the existing car. I'll give you an example: In 2005 we purchased our '06 GX 470 for 48k (or $52k - can't remember) brand new. In 11 years (going on 153k miles as of today), I've only had to replace the timing belt once together with some brake jobs and 50k/100k services. The car has been appraised as of last week at $12k. It runs flawlessly. We've decided to keep it until it literally stops working bec. to me it's worth A LOT more than $12k. That's the wife's car ... I wouldn't drive a car that old.
2nd. example: I currently own a 08 GS 350. Nice looking car, drives like crap... I mean it's a nice cruiser but it's not fun to drive on curvy roads and doesn't handle like a "German machine". Certainly not like my AMG But damn - I can't even try to get into the shop. Darn thing runs like a well oiled machine. The car is going on 8 years now... and I've only spent $400 to fix a water pump rattle (which wasn't a huge deal other than the annoying sound every time the car started)
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I recently viewed a rendering of the new LS due out as an '18 in one of the major car mags previewing Lexus' future car line up...very nice/much improved design wise and if it stays this way for production they'll have a big hit.
Here's a link to some other pics/info etc from a different source...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/201...rom-lf-fc.html
Here's a link to some other pics/info etc from a different source...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/201...rom-lf-fc.html
Last edited by RJC; 02-12-2016 at 02:04 AM.
#37
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'09 S63 AMG
I recently viewed a rendering of the new LS due out as an '18 in one of the major car mags previewing Lexus' future car line up...very nice/much improved design wise and if it stays this way for production they'll have a big hit.
Here's a link to some other pics/info etc from a different source...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/201...rom-lf-fc.html
Here's a link to some other pics/info etc from a different source...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/201...rom-lf-fc.html
#38
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I recently viewed a rendering of the new LS due out as an '18 in one of the major car mags previewing Lexus' future car line up...very nice/much improved design wise and if it stays this way for production they'll have a big hit.
Here's a link to some other pics/info etc from a different source...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/201...rom-lf-fc.html
Here's a link to some other pics/info etc from a different source...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/11/201...rom-lf-fc.html
#39
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Or spell correctly That said I have owned three Infiniti's and they have been great cars, fun to drive. That said, my last two Mercedes-Benz cars have been way more interesting to drive. Outside of reliability, I have never owned a Lexus because I find them to be ... stale. Just not inspiring in any way. Just my opinion, The S Class is on my list moving forward.
#40
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Austin, the reason why there are so few LS460s available now is that Japan severely restricted last year's crop --> due to expected low demand --> due to expected building anticipation for the all-new LS in 2017. Here in SoCal it's near impossible to find a new LS460.
Few people want to buy the last model year of a dated car, unless it's an automotive icon...which the LS460 wasn't.
The Lexus manager from whom I've bought a few Lexi over the years told me that Lexus actually scrapped their first re-design of the new LS because focus groups found it "not enough like the Mercedes S-class." So they went back to the clay modeling phase, which delayed everything.
Personally, the only thing I don't like about my new S550 is the long wheelbase. Canadians, Europeans and the RotW have the short wheelbase as a choice. Wish we did too.
Few people want to buy the last model year of a dated car, unless it's an automotive icon...which the LS460 wasn't.
The Lexus manager from whom I've bought a few Lexi over the years told me that Lexus actually scrapped their first re-design of the new LS because focus groups found it "not enough like the Mercedes S-class." So they went back to the clay modeling phase, which delayed everything.
Personally, the only thing I don't like about my new S550 is the long wheelbase. Canadians, Europeans and the RotW have the short wheelbase as a choice. Wish we did too.
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Or spell correctly That said I have owned three Infiniti's and they have been great cars, fun to drive. That said, my last two Mercedes-Benz cars have been way more interesting to drive. Outside of reliability, I have never owned a Lexus because I find them to be ... stale. Just not inspiring in any way. Just my opinion, The S Class is on my list moving forward.
I love Seinfelds bit about car names haha
#42
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What's all the subliminal uumm... ahem! About? I was just offering a suggestion as a current member of clublexus and a current Lexus owner as well. If you don't like what people have to say then leave, we are not all trying to down play Lexus, I for one am not. At the end of the day the choice is yours don't get your panties all in a bunch. In the words of the great Aaron Rodgers, "RELAX".
Last edited by wilassasin; 02-12-2016 at 11:31 PM.
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#44
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To me the "no brainer" decision would be to get a CPO S550 2014 or 2015 and get the 2 year extension warranty, so its covered for 7 yrs /unlimited miles from when new, and then add pre-paid maintenance.
And I have owned and sold plenty of both of these cars over the years.
The LS is a 2007 model design with some cladding added on it in later years.
And I have owned and sold plenty of both of these cars over the years.
The LS is a 2007 model design with some cladding added on it in later years.
#45
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To me the "no brainer" decision would be to get a CPO S550 2014 or 2015 and get the 2 year extension warranty, so its covered for 7 yrs /unlimited miles from when new, and then add pre-paid maintenance.
And I have owned and sold plenty of both of these cars over the years.
The LS is a 2007 model design with some cladding added on it in later years.
And I have owned and sold plenty of both of these cars over the years.
The LS is a 2007 model design with some cladding added on it in later years.
This is who you want.
Jeffrey M Santos
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International Porsche/Maserati
262-821-5000 ext. 349
Fax: (262) 785-4167
jsantos@mbofelmbrook.com
Chime in if you used or are going to use him. This is the Mercedes warranty that any dealer will except. This guy sells in bulk and prices are incredible!
#46
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'09 S63 AMG
I agree. And there is a huge hookup on this. I just saved my friend about $1,700 over what his dealer was charging for the Mercedes warranty.
This is who you want.
Jeffrey M Santos
Finance Manager
Mercedes-Benz/Sprinter of Elmbrook
International Porsche/Maserati
262-821-5000 ext. 349
Fax: (262) 785-4167
jsantos@mbofelmbrook.com
Chime in if you used or are going to use him. This is the Mercedes warranty that any dealer will except. This guy sells in bulk and prices are incredible!
This is who you want.
Jeffrey M Santos
Finance Manager
Mercedes-Benz/Sprinter of Elmbrook
International Porsche/Maserati
262-821-5000 ext. 349
Fax: (262) 785-4167
jsantos@mbofelmbrook.com
Chime in if you used or are going to use him. This is the Mercedes warranty that any dealer will except. This guy sells in bulk and prices are incredible!
What's a good price to pay for a '15 S550 CPO with ~10-12k miles?
#47
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#48
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I think it is rare for people to cross shop the two cars. I'm sure some do, but mostly those who have a Lexus and they want to check out a Benz. The LS is a very dated car with absolutely terrible looks. For those who want a reliable luxury car and could care less about anything else it's a great car. But there is a reason it's never included in a comparison test with the 3 Germans. It's designed as an appliance with no soul. Personally I've never had any issues with my 222, and I've not noticed a theme of anyone else having issues. Frankly I'd argue the 222 is very reliable. The S class was built and designed to be the pinnacle of automobiles, and for the time being it is. It's also substantially safer than a Japanese car. These cars are built like tanks, over engineered at every corner. In the end I would say you pull up in a Lexus, you arrive in a Mercedes S class...
#49
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I think it is rare for people to cross shop the two cars. I'm sure some do, but mostly those who have a Lexus and they want to check out a Benz. The LS is a very dated car with absolutely terrible looks. For those who want a reliable luxury car and could care less about anything else it's a great car. But there is a reason it's never included in a comparison test with the 3 Germans. It's designed as an appliance with no soul. Personally I've never had any issues with my 222, and I've not noticed a theme of anyone else having issues. Frankly I'd argue the 222 is very reliable. The S class was built and designed to be the pinnacle of automobiles, and for the time being it is. It's also substantially safer than a Japanese car. These cars are built like tanks, over engineered at every corner. In the end I would say you pull up in a Lexus, you arrive in a Mercedes S class...
I've had quite a few luxury sedans, and lexus is nice, but it isolates you from the road. The S is a tank. You feel the weight, you feel the security, nothing drives like it. After you get an S, it will be very hard to go back to something lesser.
Lexus builds great reliable cars, but they are now a dime and dozen with lack luster appeal. They drive like a Cadillac, super soft and floaty. That's good and fine for some, but I prefer and little more enjoyment than to be fully isolated.
#50
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On the reliability issue then maybe I have been lucky, I have owned older S-classes for quite a few decades now, never had any significant issue. Owned an LS once, it was equally reliable, but not even close to the experience of an S.
Yes to the above. The only thing is, you really only want to own a Mercedes under warranty, or if you are out of warranty and don't mine the repairs, that's fine. Or have a good independent shop when you are out of warranty to save half the costs.
I've had quite a few luxury sedans, and lexus is nice, but it isolates you from the road. The S is a tank. You feel the weight, you feel the security, nothing drives like it. After you get an S, it will be very hard to go back to something lesser.
Lexus builds great reliable cars, but they are now a dime and dozen with lack luster appeal. They drive like a Cadillac, super soft and floaty. That's good and fine for some, but I prefer and little more enjoyment than to be fully isolated.
I've had quite a few luxury sedans, and lexus is nice, but it isolates you from the road. The S is a tank. You feel the weight, you feel the security, nothing drives like it. After you get an S, it will be very hard to go back to something lesser.
Lexus builds great reliable cars, but they are now a dime and dozen with lack luster appeal. They drive like a Cadillac, super soft and floaty. That's good and fine for some, but I prefer and little more enjoyment than to be fully isolated.