Unfortuantely it is taking an accident to point out Tesla's and Elon Musk's aggressive nature of bringing things to the market that may not be completely ready. I hope this accident does not set back the development of autonomous driving but the reality is it probably will. As I mentioned before, Elon Musk is a "loose cannon".


Below is a Tesla owner on the Tesla Forum site, speaking out against Tesla. Never thought I would see a Tesla owner "blast" Tesla like this.


AmpedRealtor | June 30, 2016
Tesla was totally irresponsible releasing Autopilot as "beta" software. With every software release, the performance, accuracy, and dependability of the system changes and not always for the better. I am not the only one here who was on the record a year ago questioning Tesla's decision to use its owners as Autopilot guinea pigs. I also said a year ago that one day when there is an Autopilot-caused death, Tesla's disclaimers and "beta" status will mean little to the NHTSA. Indeed, you can already read in Tesla's blog post an attempt to set up its defense behind disclaimers and beta opt-in language. Good luck with that, Elon.
I'm not cutting Tesla any slack here because this is too serious an issue to make excuses. I'm already reading elsewhere that because the driver didn't see the semi, Autopilot shouldn't be expected to see it either. I have a newsflash for those people - the reason we have advanced safety features in our cars is exactly so that they can see things we don't, or act before we can. To say that it's okay because the driver didn't see it or react, as some confluence of magical circumstances, is laughable. To say, as Tesla suggests, that the forward facing radar could not see the semi because of its higher ride height is an admission of a design flaw. It should detect all vehicles and objects in front of the car, not just cars of a certain ride height.
I can't wait to see how far Tesla's long list of disclaimers gets them with NHTSA, and why they believe that someone opting-in to accept beta software with a long list of disclaimers means that person deserves to lose his or her life at the hands of the software that Tesla designed to keep us safe. Sorry, not buying it.
Trip Planner is still in beta as is Autopilot. Navigation system sucks compared to systems from 10 years ago. Tesla can't seem to get its software house in order, rolls out a beta of software that can kill you, and is now buying Solar City for $3B when it should be focusing on actually finishing something and doing it right. Three years after the Model S rolled off the line we are still reading about cars leaking, drive units failing, miserable delivery experiences, lack of quality control, etc. But why bother with any of that when the "next new thing" is just around the corner to distract everyone.

 

Like I said I have no intention of racing anyone at triple digit speeds on a highway. At a red light, I can hit 60 mph any day any time in about 3.1s while an exhaust farting combustion E63s is slower on its best day. In most cases not everyone gets their launch perfect on combustion cars with a mechanical transmission.

Unless of course someone wants to mangle the drivetrain components by putting the car into launch mode but even with launch control an E63s is still slower to 60 than my Tesla P85D with me simply stomping the accelerator.

As for your Hellcat, did you watch the latest episode of Top Gear? The Hellcat's *** was handed to it not by a Tesla Model S but by a Tesla Model X weighing almost 6,000 lbs. You don't need a Model S to out accelerate a Hellcat, you can do that with a Model X with Ludicrous Mode.

Like I said if I wanted to make a safe lane change in front of an E63s at a red light there is nothing they can do about it. The E63s is slower and it is just a matter of simple math and physics.

As for passing an E63S at highway speed that is what the recently announced Ludicrous Speed option is for. At peak acceleration it releases up to 1,500 amps to the electric motor specifically for high speed acceleration. And you get that acceleration in an instant without having to wait for a convoluted mechanical system to do its thing with more combustion exhaust farting

To put the Ludicrous Speed max power of 1,500 amps in perspective your home outlets are rated at merely about 15 amps. That's a massive amount of power.

 

More information on the Tesla accident below:


http://electrek.co/2016/06/30/tesla-...investigation/

 

It is unfortunate that someone had to die to prove that autonomous cars have a long, long, long way to go. The driver probably didn't see the semi because he was not looking assuming his Tesla was doing the driving for him. That is the main problem with autonomous; it will make drivers too complacent and they will not pay attention at all.
These are automobiles, not phones or computers.
The other major issue here is that Elon Musk and Tesla decided to use the entire country as a test platform for their product.
I am sure the lawyers are making their TV ads right now.
NHTSA has issued statement that it is unsafe to drive certain Hondas and Acuras. Will they make one about Teslas equipped as this one was?

 

At those speeds and times, both drivers would be stupid and reckless. Not to mention, absolutely no intelligent reason to pass in first place.
Sounds like WEBSFR is just interested in risking his life and those of innocent people just so he can say his Tesla can pass anything on the road.

 

Hahahahahahha!!! This is the perfect comment for the thread. Bravo. Totally busted me up!

 

ALL car manufacturers implementing distronic-like tech are guilty of putting it out there too fast

The distro in my 2014 Benz had some major flaws and it's not ready for prime time yet, I won't use it

Autonomous driving just sounds bad doesn't it

Overall there will still likely be way more fatalities due to actual stupid human input vs autonomous car tech

It's just that we will quickly spotlight the tesla/Benz/Etc that "killed" the that guy

 

Yikes! Really? You are bringing the tragic death of someone to this discussion to make a point? You realize this could have just as easily have happened in a Volvo, Mercedes, or other model equipped with driving aids; right?

Yes autonomous driving aids are at their relative infancy now but nothing is ever perfect. Even when they refine this technology to be 10X better than a human there will still be accidents and there will still be fatalities.

This is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated. Among all vehicles in the US, there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles.

So the system is statistically safer driving a million miles than a human but the key here is that the human on the driver's seat still has to pay attention. This is true with Tesla Autipilot. This is true with Mercedes Distronic Plus. This is true with the next generation Mercedes Drive Pilot.

Already ABS, Dynamic Stability and Traction Control,Emergency Braking all contribute to lowering accidents and injuries. Autonomous driving assistance aids are a step in the same direction and they are already safer than a human but they are not perfect.

When I drive long distances I always use Autopilot as it give me the benefit of ultrasonic sensors around the car combined with radar and a camera watching out for me but I still completely and absolutely pay attention. It seems unfortunately this driver was not paying attention as he missed an 18 wheeler perpendicularly driving across oncoming traffic while making a left turn.

These systems will get better and they will reduce accidents and injuries but accidents will still happen, as they do when human are driving. If the rate of accidents with these systems is 50% less or 500% less that is progress but while these systems are being refined the driver must be vigilant.

 

Good point and this is in fact the case already. Even with the current Tesla Autipilot system which is similar to the upcoming Mercedes Drive Pilot system the rate of accidents with the technology on per a million miles driven is about 50% less. That is a statistically significant benefit.

 

WEBSRFR,


Time to face facts. You can try to minimize the facts here but it happened to Tesla--no surprise to me at all.


Tesla has been pushing the envelope on many things--AutoPilot and CHANGING THE WORLD!


This was bound to happen to Tesla because the company is aggressive in bringing new things to market. Not all bad. However, MB and others are more cautious so the chance of the first major accident that questions the cool technology was bound to be Tesla.


Now Tesla has to deal with the bad publicity that comes with the territory the "loose cannon" Elon Musk has chosen.


And yes this will ultimately have an impact on sales so be prepared WEBSRFR to defend this since you simply cannot face any negative issues with regards to Tesla.


I bet WEBSRFR is one of the programmers for the AutoPilot since he cannot deal with the reality of what Tesla is about to face but instead wants to deflect it to say this could have happen to other companies. I suppose that is correct but the deck is stacked against Tesla on this one. This will be a tough thing for WEBSRFR and Tesla (maybe these are one in the same) to deal with over the coming years.

 

Oh by the way, WEBSRFR sent me a private message to tell me he will not respond to me because he cannot deal with trying to defend Tesla with me. The reality is he simply does not want to admit the real facts about Tesla but wants everyone to drink the Tesla Kool Aid and to think like he does--Musk and Tesla walk on water.

 

Where are the facts that you base your "rate of accidents with the technology on a per million miles driven is about 50% less"? What study did this come from?

 

We used to celebrate innovation in this world/country and now we scrutinize it and blog about it death until it truly dies

I'm looking forward to Elons success, just not ready to buy his product yet

 

While the numbers clearly show what I attributed to with the instant acceleration of a Tesla the science behind the acceleration shows the difference in acceleration between a Tesla compared to a legacy combustion vehicle like a Hellcat or E63s.

Consumer Reports did a great segment on this where they showed how the instant acceleration of a Tesla compares to the acceleration of a combustion car saddled by a mechanical transmission.

With the Tesla the G-force is instant and the acceleration is relentless until it reaches triple digits. A tesla with the Ludicrous Speed upgrade and that acceleration remains even past the triple digits.

Can't wait for Mercedes to finally build a proper EV!

 

+1


I would have already been a buyer and am interesting in the technology but I do have a distrust for Musk and the people that do not want to look at real world facts.


I am interested in what Tesla is doing so much that I am spending (or wasting) my time in this silly forum with people that spread the Tesla Kool Aid without much counterbalance.

 

I agree and I find it quite perplexing. America is about innovation and reinventing entire industries that change the world.

The fact that American companies take bigger risks and think outside the box by believing in innovation is the reason we have companies like Google, Microsoft, and Apple. These companies would not have been possible in most other countries.

Whether Tesla is to join in their level of success as such companies is yet to be seen. They may flourish or they may go under but you can't ever say they were happy with the status quo and didn't push boundaries and this is what makes America such a great country to start a business.

It used to be that we had to wait for spy photos from Germany taken someplace with a foreign sounding name to see what future automotive technologies are coming our way. It is wonderful now to see such photos and technologies come from California, Nevada and other places within the United States.

I may sound overzealous about Tesla sometimes but it is partly a counter reaction to all the negativity and gloom by those who don't appreciate the hard work and the innovation that is being made in the United States. We used to celebrate such innovation and be proud of companies that took chances but just look at the hate directed at Tesla. It's like some people can't wait for Tesla to fail so they can buy their next car that was instead made in Germany, Mexico, or some other country.

If nothing else, despite this horrible accident know that it is already safer than a human per a million miles driven. And you will be glad Tesla, Mercedes, and others are working on this technology so when you are old and can no longer drive, you will not be robbed of your mobility.

 

+1


I hope Tesla survives but as a bleeding edge company they are going to have to deal with issues like this death and the wheel falling off the guys Tesla and make those thing "right". Ask the auto companies like Ford (Pinto, Explorer, etc) and GM in the ignition switch issue.


When it comes to Strict Liability in Tort (Product Liability) such as warning defects, design defects, or manufacturing defects companies like Tesla are playing in the auto industry. They will find themselves strictly liable since they are in the stream of commerce. Simply put Tesla does not act like they are playing in the US auto industry although they are manufacturing autos. This will eventually get them into major legal issues if they are not careful.

 

WEBSRFR, like most Tesla fanboys, lives in his own LA-LA Universe.
I bet he also watches Harry Potter movies, hopefully not while driving.....

 

No one is opposed to innovation or technology. The problem is that Tesla is not the god of the future some wish to perceive it as.
Furthermore, American history is full of examples where cutting-edge technology failed once it reached the market place. Huge numbers of companies went bankrupt, not to mention people's lives destroyed.
That is the issue here. Develop the technology and prove it before placing it out there. But don't use the rest of the public as guinea pigs or endanger them.
What the auto industry needs is to replace R&D with R&D&ET. The ET stands for extensive testing.
I just had a major electronic component replaced in one of my vehicles at 18 months and 8,000 miles.
Electronics are the most problem prone component across the board today.
We are talking about automobiles on highways and streets, not phones, TV's or other applicances that don't endanger others when they fail.

 

Well I am quite happy with my La La Universe as I'm driving the future

No Harry Potter movies and certainly not while I drive! I take driving very seriously.

While I use Autopilot all the time, I think of Autopilot as basically a hyper alert new driver who is always watching for certain threats it knows of and constantly scans 360 around me with ultrasonic sensors, radar, and the camera. It gives me an extra margin of safety and for long trips greatly eases the monotony.

When you all use Distronic Plus or Mercedes' the Drive Pilot after it becomes available in the S Class, unless they advertise the tech as fully autonomous, you need to be alert and aware the whole time. The system in the Tesla is already safer than a human but it is not infallible.

Basically a human paying attention with semi autonomous systems watching over the shoulder and assisting you are safer than just a human paying attention and doing everything.

 

Something we can agree on. However, the problem is that people will begin to rely on the technology and not pay attention anymore. They will look around, text, read, eat, apply make-up, shave, whatever in expectation that the car will take care of them.
We will never know in this situation if the driver was paying attention or had his hands on the steering wheel. The earlier film clips he recorded show him with his hands in his lap and looking to his right side while talking to the camera while the vehicle is moving rapidly. Letting the car drive itself.
And don't forget the issue of frequent failures in automotive electronic systems.

 

There is some evidence that he had a DVD playing on a portable player...

Tesla driver killed in autopilot crash ‘was watching Harry Potter’

 

Except if we as a society are to advance we can't live and design everything to the lowest common denominator. We can't stop building bridges or tall buildings because of the rare occasion that some because people jump off of them.

So whether you are in a Volvo, Tesla, Mercedes, Audi or other car with lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control, you need to pay attention to the road. If the driver of the Tesla allegedly wasn't watching a movie he would have seen the 18 wheeler that cut across the road.

If we stop advancing technology every single time someone abuses it, we'd still be quite a primitive civilization.

The fact remains that this is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated. Among all vehicles in the US, there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles.

Unlike human driving which likely will not get much better, the driver assist systems and eventually autonomous driving will be a factor of 10 safer than a human for a million miles driven and this will save lives. The sky is not falling and there is no need for hysteria. These technologies are already saving lives and they will only get much better with time.

 

Does the Tesla not have sensors to tell if hands are on the steering wheel? I would think the black box will be able to tell them this and much more.

 

They do have steering wheel sensors and will seemingly randomly remind users to hold the wheel if they aren't doing so. But whether that info gets recorded I have no idea.