Why One Should Not Buy A Tesla Model S
#1076
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2015 S550 Palladium/Deep Sea Blue, 2016 Tesla Model S 70D, 2015 Volvo XC70
You might laugh, but considering the price points of the Model S and Model X, after incentives, a very respectable number of people DO "want" and buy Teslas. Including some MB S-Class owners.
Personally, I think our next EV probably won't be from Tesla, but it was the right choice for us in 2016 (and for forum member LovinMercedes in 2017) and to this day my wife calls the Tesla "the best purchase decision" she "has ever made." (It is primarily her car.)
Personally, I think our next EV probably won't be from Tesla, but it was the right choice for us in 2016 (and for forum member LovinMercedes in 2017) and to this day my wife calls the Tesla "the best purchase decision" she "has ever made." (It is primarily her car.)
#1079
... seeing as you like to look at other people's posts go look at hers and you'll quickly understand why I asked her what grade she was in.
#1081
Fact. Teslas are lame,and played out hipster trash.
Wouldn't be caught dead in a car without an engine what's the point? I guess if going in a straight line fast and getting from point A to point B and being able to brag about having a Tesla is important then that's cool too.
I like motorcycles and I like cars and I like nice sounding exhaust. I enjoy the heart and soul of an automobile.. I don't want to drive around in something that makes a whirring sound just because it has a nice tablet in the dash..
Wouldn't be caught dead in a car without an engine what's the point? I guess if going in a straight line fast and getting from point A to point B and being able to brag about having a Tesla is important then that's cool too.
I like motorcycles and I like cars and I like nice sounding exhaust. I enjoy the heart and soul of an automobile.. I don't want to drive around in something that makes a whirring sound just because it has a nice tablet in the dash..
Last edited by Ariesfamous; 03-30-2018 at 07:57 PM.
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Germancar1 (05-10-2018)
#1084
#1085
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No, that would be your OPINION. People that are buying Teslas now obviously don't share the opinion that they are lame.
Maybe you can tell your opinions to the people at Porsche, who have said that eventually, the MOST sporty of their offerings will be an EV. Or you can tell Ferrari, which is planning an EV supercar.
Wouldn't be caught dead in a car without an engine what's the point? I guess if going in a straight line fast and getting from point A to point B and being able to brag about having a Tesla is important then that's cool too.
I like motorcycles and I like cars and I like nice sounding exhaust. I enjoy the heart and soul of an automobile.. I don't want to drive around in something that makes a whirring sound just because it has a nice tablet in the dash..
I like motorcycles and I like cars and I like nice sounding exhaust. I enjoy the heart and soul of an automobile.. I don't want to drive around in something that makes a whirring sound just because it has a nice tablet in the dash..
#1086
No, that would be your OPINION. People that are buying Teslas now obviously don't share the opinion that they are lame.
Maybe you can tell your opinions to the people at Porsche, who have said that eventually, the MOST sporty of their offerings will be an EV. Or you can tell Ferrari, which is planning an EV supercar.
Maybe you can tell your opinions to the people at Porsche, who have said that eventually, the MOST sporty of their offerings will be an EV. Or you can tell Ferrari, which is planning an EV supercar.
I can't stand most Porsches either, to be honest.
#1087
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Well, I'm going to guess that you like at least some MBs, else you wouldn't be on this forum. So maybe while your in Germany you should tell the MB product planners and engineers that they should drop their plans for EVs, including AMG EVs.
#1088
To answer your question I love a bunch of Mercedes.. Mainly v8 and up engines, mostly.
#1089
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That other car companies, known for at least some performance/sport models in their product lines, are developing EVs, is simply additional evidence that EV holds great promise.
Did you know that Volvo has said it has basically halted further development of ICE? They are just the first. Eventually some of the companies you cherish will do the same, imo.
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Not at all, you are entitled to like or dislike whatever you want, and to think Teslas and EVs are lame. But you shouldn't be saying that it is a "fact" that Teslas are "lame" when there is convincing evidence that some people do not find them lame. Tesla's market share in the price segment where the S and X sell is pretty respectable, particularly for so new a company. The people buying those cars do not think what they are buying is "lame". Tesla being lame is your opinion, not fact.
That other car companies, known for at least some performance/sport models in their product lines, are developing EVs, is simply additional evidence that EV holds great promise.
Did you know that Volvo has said it has basically halted further development of ICE? They are just the first. Eventually some of the companies you cherish will do the same, imo.
That other car companies, known for at least some performance/sport models in their product lines, are developing EVs, is simply additional evidence that EV holds great promise.
Did you know that Volvo has said it has basically halted further development of ICE? They are just the first. Eventually some of the companies you cherish will do the same, imo.
Last edited by Wolfman; 03-30-2018 at 11:45 PM.
#1091
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Inaccurate
That's an interesting question. What if car companies in general didn't get subsidies? Well, Tesla probably wouldn't have to compete with GM or Chrysler, at least not as healthy companies now. Ford took their subsidy, even though they didn't need it, just to keep the playing field "level".
Big companies with hiring power get favors. Doesn't matter if they are dying industries like coal and steel or high tech companies like Amazon and Tesla.
Big companies with hiring power get favors. Doesn't matter if they are dying industries like coal and steel or high tech companies like Amazon and Tesla.
As for Ford, could you be more specific? My understanding is that while GM and Chrysler took the "bail outs," Ford did not.
I am not opposed to EV's, but I am opposed to continued fascination by many far beyond this forum with Tesla as the penultimate auto manufacturing enterprise. And the Tesla automobiles as being perfect.
Not to mention with those who think the combustible engine is dead and will disappear in next 10-20 years.
#1092
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Sure. GM, Chrysler and GMAC received $24.9 billion from TARP, which we all associate with 'bailout'.
Ford asked for a $9 billion line of credit due to the tight lending markets. They received a $5.9 billion loan from the Energy Department's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program (ATVM). The money is being applied to advance commercial electric vehicles and other fuel-saving technologies (like aluminum bodies). https://www.thebalance.com/auto-indu...rysler-3305670
Tesla received $465 million in loans from ATVM, for development of the EV technologies. Tesla repaid this loan in 2013. Ford is due to repay their loan in 2022.
One could use all sorts of pejorative terms to describe the nature of these financial grants (loans, bailouts, subsidies). But basically it is the government using its resources to advance long-term US interests. I don't have a problem with that.
Ford asked for a $9 billion line of credit due to the tight lending markets. They received a $5.9 billion loan from the Energy Department's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program (ATVM). The money is being applied to advance commercial electric vehicles and other fuel-saving technologies (like aluminum bodies). https://www.thebalance.com/auto-indu...rysler-3305670
Tesla received $465 million in loans from ATVM, for development of the EV technologies. Tesla repaid this loan in 2013. Ford is due to repay their loan in 2022.
One could use all sorts of pejorative terms to describe the nature of these financial grants (loans, bailouts, subsidies). But basically it is the government using its resources to advance long-term US interests. I don't have a problem with that.
#1093
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Too many topics thrown around in this thread so people will be all over the place in their opinions. I wish we can just kill it off. Syswei, I like the topic discussion of EV's but would think you might just want to open a new EV specific thread. Not irrelevant as MB is throwing significant R&D into it...
#1094
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I'd argue that the $7500 on Teslas to date has helped "some" for the Models S and X, but given the high ASPs of those cars, I don't think sales would have been 50% lower or anything like that without the subsidy. As for the Model 3...we'll see how sales hold up after the $7500 disappears when Tesla reaches 200k cumulative EV units later this year. My guess is, the Model 3 is still a pretty attractive proposition without the $7500...just look into the car mag reviews...and they'll still sell plenty. Assuming they can produce them.
I am not opposed to EV's, but I am opposed to continued fascination by many far beyond this forum with Tesla as the penultimate auto manufacturing enterprise. And the Tesla automobiles as being perfect.
Not to mention with those who think the combustible engine is dead and will disappear in next 10-20 years.
Not to mention with those who think the combustible engine is dead and will disappear in next 10-20 years.
As far as ICE, I don't think they will disappear in 10-20 years. But it is clear that R&D on ICE is already in decline. Companies like Audi and MB and others keep talking about how much they are devoting to EV investments, and where do you think that money comes from? While ICE will imo still be around in 20 years, new R&D on ICE by that time (and probably much sooner) imo will be near-zero. While EV technology, including batteries, will still be progressing. For instance, Porsche by going with 800 volt technology in its Mission E will enable charging 250 miles of range in just 15 minutes (article). Technology like that is going to make it eventually into more mainstream EVs. And be improved upon. And battery tech is still improving, making for cheaper, lighter, and energy-denser batteries. And hybrid tech in the nearer term has alot to offer. My prediction is that in just 1-2 years, the very highest performing AMG one can buy will be hybrid. And within 5 years, the very highest performing AMG will be pure EV.
In my personal situation, I see having 1 hybrid and 1 EV a few years from now.
Last edited by syswei; 03-31-2018 at 02:17 PM. Reason: corrected Porsche voltage
#1095
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Some brief clips of Nurburgring runs, including of the Porsche Mission E, I guess a test mule:
Last edited by syswei; 03-31-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Too many topics thrown around in this thread so people will be all over the place in their opinions. I wish we can just kill it off. Syswei, I like the topic discussion of EV's but would think you might just want to open a new EV specific thread. Not irrelevant as MB is throwing significant R&D into it...
#1097
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A very mixed review of the Tesla Model 3.
#1098
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I dunno, a new thread about EVs I think is kind of stepping on the OP's toes a bit. As for the many topics and people "all over the place in their opinions" that might happen with any thread about EVs and/or Tesla, as I think people have varied and sometimes strong opinions.
I am starting this new thread since we have a person (WEBSRFR) that continues to "Advertise" for Tesla on MBWORLD. He/she continues to be off topic and tell us MB enthusiasts why one should buy a Tesla.
Hopefully this thread can atleast discuss any negatives about the Model S.
#1099
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I am the OP and you will not step on my toes by starting a new thread. In fact, I would welcome a new thread since the reason I started this thread is below (I posted as the first post):
I am starting this new thread since we have a person (WEBSRFR) that continues to "Advertise" for Tesla on MBWORLD. He/she continues to be off topic and tell us MB enthusiasts why one should buy a Tesla.
Hopefully this thread can atleast discuss any negatives about the Model S.