Why One Should Not Buy A Tesla Model S
06-04-2016, 03:33 PM
#176
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"Mercedes-Benz set to release four EVs by 2020"...based on C, S, GLA, GLC, per this article from Autocar.
Based on the serious problems the S hybrid had, I'd hesitate to buy an EV from MB in its first year, but maybe 2021.
Based on the serious problems the S hybrid had, I'd hesitate to buy an EV from MB in its first year, but maybe 2021.
06-05-2016, 09:41 AM
#177
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'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
The one "benefit" touted by Tesla owners and factory, the ability to change/update software remotely, with no actual access to the car itself is another reason that makes me wary.
If factory can do it, so can any decent hacker, opens the door to all new options in crime....
Like taking over full control of a car and forcing it (with driver hopelessly imprisoned inside) to go to a remote location to do whatever they want.
If factory can do it, so can any decent hacker, opens the door to all new options in crime....
Like taking over full control of a car and forcing it (with driver hopelessly imprisoned inside) to go to a remote location to do whatever they want.
06-09-2016, 09:18 AM
#178
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FYI
Interesting fact discussed on CNBC this morning--Tesla lowers its Model S price to $66,000 in the US with bringing back the 60kWh battery.
On the Tesla website in the US the 60D is listed at $66,000 while the 90D is $89,500 and the P90D is listed at $109,500.
Interesting fact discussed on CNBC this morning--Tesla lowers its Model S price to $66,000 in the US with bringing back the 60kWh battery.
On the Tesla website in the US the 60D is listed at $66,000 while the 90D is $89,500 and the P90D is listed at $109,500.
06-09-2016, 08:14 PM
#179
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Actually not. The Tesla Model S is wider than either the E or S. Taking Length x Width (excluding mirrors, from cars.com) for 2016s:
E-Class 192.1 x 73.0 = 14,023 sq in
Tesla MS 196.0 x 77.3 = 15,151
S-Class LWB 206.5 x 74.8 = 15,446
So Tesla Model S is dimensionaly 8% bigger than the E, and just 2% smaller than the S (LWB).
If we consider Canada or practically any country outside the US (or maybe any country outside the US period? I don't know) then a SWB S would be an option:
S-Class SWB 201.4 x 74.8 = 15,065 ...slightly dimensionaly smaller than the Tesla.
E-Class 192.1 x 73.0 = 14,023 sq in
Tesla MS 196.0 x 77.3 = 15,151
S-Class LWB 206.5 x 74.8 = 15,446
So Tesla Model S is dimensionaly 8% bigger than the E, and just 2% smaller than the S (LWB).
If we consider Canada or practically any country outside the US (or maybe any country outside the US period? I don't know) then a SWB S would be an option:
S-Class SWB 201.4 x 74.8 = 15,065 ...slightly dimensionaly smaller than the Tesla.
06-10-2016, 09:52 AM
#180
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Tesla is having some ball joint failures that looks downright dangerous. They also tried to cover it up with a NDA, as a condition for 50% discount on the repair. That particular vehicle is out of warranty.
But there seems to be other instances of failure on newer cars. I love how the Tesla drives and I look forward to electrical cars in the future. But the behavior of Tesla as a company, is really hard for me to root for. Not that other car companies are saints (hello, VW). But at least there aren't that many fanboys with holier than thou attitude, just my humble opinion.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377...7658490111523/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-report-to-u-s
http://jalopnik.com/tesla-accused-of...hei-1781634791
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...s.69204/page-8
But there seems to be other instances of failure on newer cars. I love how the Tesla drives and I look forward to electrical cars in the future. But the behavior of Tesla as a company, is really hard for me to root for. Not that other car companies are saints (hello, VW). But at least there aren't that many fanboys with holier than thou attitude, just my humble opinion.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377...7658490111523/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-report-to-u-s
http://jalopnik.com/tesla-accused-of...hei-1781634791
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...s.69204/page-8
06-10-2016, 10:59 AM
#181
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Tesla is having some ball joint failures that looks downright dangerous. They also tried to cover it up with a NDA, as a condition for 50% discount on the repair. That particular vehicle is out of warranty.
But there seems to be other instances of failure on newer cars. I love how the Tesla drives and I look forward to electrical cars in the future. But the behavior of Tesla as a company, is really hard for me to root for. Not that other car companies are saints (hello, VW). But at least there aren't that many fanboys with holier than thou attitude, just my humble opinion.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377...7658490111523/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-report-to-u-s
http://jalopnik.com/tesla-accused-of...hei-1781634791
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...s.69204/page-8
But there seems to be other instances of failure on newer cars. I love how the Tesla drives and I look forward to electrical cars in the future. But the behavior of Tesla as a company, is really hard for me to root for. Not that other car companies are saints (hello, VW). But at least there aren't that many fanboys with holier than thou attitude, just my humble opinion.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377...7658490111523/
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-report-to-u-s
http://jalopnik.com/tesla-accused-of...hei-1781634791
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...s.69204/page-8
WOW! Scheisse! Nicht so gut. This is bad for any car company but worse for a company like Tesla that has fanboys that drink the kool aid. No manufacturer is a saint (look at the Ford Pinto--I had one of these as my first car thankfully my gas tank did not blow up) but in order to build the company Musk is building there can be no hiding issues like this if in fact that is what has happened.
06-10-2016, 11:56 AM
#182
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Actually not. The Tesla Model S is wider than either the E or S. Taking Length x Width (excluding mirrors, from cars.com) for 2016s:
E-Class 192.1 x 73.0 = 14,023 sq in
Tesla MS 196.0 x 77.3 = 15,151
S-Class LWB 206.5 x 74.8 = 15,446
So Tesla Model S is dimensionaly 8% bigger than the E, and just 2% smaller than the S (LWB).
If we consider Canada or practically any country outside the US (or maybe any country outside the US period? I don't know) then a SWB S would be an option:
S-Class SWB 201.4 x 74.8 = 15,065 ...slightly dimensionaly smaller than the Tesla.
E-Class 192.1 x 73.0 = 14,023 sq in
Tesla MS 196.0 x 77.3 = 15,151
S-Class LWB 206.5 x 74.8 = 15,446
So Tesla Model S is dimensionaly 8% bigger than the E, and just 2% smaller than the S (LWB).
If we consider Canada or practically any country outside the US (or maybe any country outside the US period? I don't know) then a SWB S would be an option:
S-Class SWB 201.4 x 74.8 = 15,065 ...slightly dimensionaly smaller than the Tesla.
I guess it must be just me measuring cars by length. Never had anyone tell me their car is larger because it's wider.
Obviously, if you look at volume, any mini van will beat the S-Class.
06-10-2016, 03:08 PM
#184
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Anyway when it comes to 'measuring' and classifying cars, you are free to consider length alone, but don't assume that everyone else does the same. Or should do the same.
06-10-2016, 08:44 PM
#185
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Ask any woman whether length is the only thing that matters, or whether girth figures in to enjoyment too...
Anyway when it comes to 'measuring' and classifying cars, you are free to consider length alone, but don't assume that everyone else does the same. Or should do the same.
Anyway when it comes to 'measuring' and classifying cars, you are free to consider length alone, but don't assume that everyone else does the same. Or should do the same.
That said, I have no issues with the Tesla other than many of the posted mind numbing comparisons.
06-10-2016, 08:45 PM
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06-11-2016, 03:17 PM
#188
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I am concerned that Musk as the CEO of Tesla is publically stating that 37 of 40 problem suspension claims that NHTSA is looking at are fraudulent and the these 37 people are essentially making up the claims. What? I think Musk better learn how to run a company since the head of a car company should not be stating in public that his customers are making up suspected problems of the car. This type of stuff can be dealt with properly in a court system. This story has completely turned me off from ever buying a Tesla--not the fact that there might be a problem but the way Tesla is dealing with their customers and the way they respond in public. Musk is a "loose canon".
They instead should be doing everything they can to state they will do everything they can to make the safest cars. I was considering a Model S (not to replace my S Class) but I now have decided against the consideration. Tesla scares me since Musk is more concerned about changing the world than making safe cars. Atleast MB knows how to test and make the safest cars they can. MUSK AND TESLA are scary!
They instead should be doing everything they can to state they will do everything they can to make the safest cars. I was considering a Model S (not to replace my S Class) but I now have decided against the consideration. Tesla scares me since Musk is more concerned about changing the world than making safe cars. Atleast MB knows how to test and make the safest cars they can. MUSK AND TESLA are scary!
06-11-2016, 03:32 PM
#189
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Read this excerpt from a CNBC Report: Tesla said Thursday the car with over 70,000 miles had abnormal rust and that the Pennsylvania owner lived down such a long dirt road that it required two tow trucks to retrieve the car. The owner said the car had only been on a dirt road once or twice, and Musk later conceded to the Wall Street Journal that Tesla had erred in saying the owner lived on a dirt road.
The above is amazing. I live in the Pittsburgh area not too far from the guy who has been quoted that had the nondisclosure agreement with 70000 miles on his Tesla Model S. I guess one cannot own a Model S in the Pittsburgh area since our roads create abnormal rust to Tesla cars. This again is an amazing statement. If you live in my area in Pennsylvania, rust is a known factor due to road salt in the winter. In fact my 2000 E320 4matic that my son drives has body rust on it after 16 years but the suspension parts are not causing undue concern since every year in PA we have state inspections and my local MB dealer and I talk about any potential under carriage rust to make sure the car is safe for my son to drive.
I am very disappointed with Tesla and Musk. And I was starting to think I might actually buy a Tesla. Nicht!
The above is amazing. I live in the Pittsburgh area not too far from the guy who has been quoted that had the nondisclosure agreement with 70000 miles on his Tesla Model S. I guess one cannot own a Model S in the Pittsburgh area since our roads create abnormal rust to Tesla cars. This again is an amazing statement. If you live in my area in Pennsylvania, rust is a known factor due to road salt in the winter. In fact my 2000 E320 4matic that my son drives has body rust on it after 16 years but the suspension parts are not causing undue concern since every year in PA we have state inspections and my local MB dealer and I talk about any potential under carriage rust to make sure the car is safe for my son to drive.
I am very disappointed with Tesla and Musk. And I was starting to think I might actually buy a Tesla. Nicht!
06-11-2016, 04:14 PM
#190
Well said, MTrauman. Musk is a loose canon and plus he knows the market (like Martin Shkreli) i.e. the habits of a typical luxury vehicle buyer. We like to experience new things, I have even experienced a Model S (S60 and gotten rid of that seriously over-hyped and highly misleading marketing on the vehicle).
I am concerned that Musk as the CEO of Tesla is publically stating that 37 of 40 problem suspension claims that NHTSA is looking at are fraudulent and the these 37 people are essentially making up the claims. What? I think Musk better learn how to run a company since the head of a car company should not be stating in public that his customers are making up suspected problems of the car. This type of stuff can be dealt with properly in a court system. This story has completely turned me off from ever buying a Tesla--not the fact that there might be a problem but the way Tesla is dealing with their customers and the way they respond in public. Musk is a "loose canon".
They instead should be doing everything they can to state they will do everything they can to make the safest cars. I was considering a Model S (not to replace my S Class) but I now have decided against the consideration. Tesla scares me since Musk is more concerned about changing the world than making safe cars. Atleast MB knows how to test and make the safest cars they can. MUSK AND TESLA are scary!
They instead should be doing everything they can to state they will do everything they can to make the safest cars. I was considering a Model S (not to replace my S Class) but I now have decided against the consideration. Tesla scares me since Musk is more concerned about changing the world than making safe cars. Atleast MB knows how to test and make the safest cars they can. MUSK AND TESLA are scary!
Last edited by fathom6; 06-11-2016 at 04:17 PM.
06-11-2016, 05:17 PM
#191
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I haven't looked into the facts/allegations in this suspension/NDA stuff, but I will say that there is an upside to Tesla owners from the company being high-profile and high P/E multiple and needing to raise capital: it will force Musk to treat customers decently, because if he doesn't, the outsize publicity Tesla gets will hurt the company. Going back, Tesla fixed its fire problem by putting kevlar on the underside. It fixed the rear safety issue by reinforcing the rear.
BTW my W221 had its share of suspension isssues. The airmatic system, I think it was a pump or compressor or something (?) sometimes caused a high-pitched whining noise. The service manager said some noise is normal but mine was clearly excessive. The part was replaced TWICE (under warranty and then extended warranty), but each time, I still had excessive noise. IMO the reason the replacements failed: MB replaced the part with REMANUFACTURED parts, so with each replacement I was probably getting a noisy part that some other poor sucker W221 owner had had taken out of his car by MB, cleaned up, and put in my car! How's that for great customer service?
Notice though that despite the problem, I went and bought a W222. Every car and company is going to have positives and negatives, but people keep buying MBs, and imo people will keep buying Teslas.
BTW my W221 had its share of suspension isssues. The airmatic system, I think it was a pump or compressor or something (?) sometimes caused a high-pitched whining noise. The service manager said some noise is normal but mine was clearly excessive. The part was replaced TWICE (under warranty and then extended warranty), but each time, I still had excessive noise. IMO the reason the replacements failed: MB replaced the part with REMANUFACTURED parts, so with each replacement I was probably getting a noisy part that some other poor sucker W221 owner had had taken out of his car by MB, cleaned up, and put in my car! How's that for great customer service?
Notice though that despite the problem, I went and bought a W222. Every car and company is going to have positives and negatives, but people keep buying MBs, and imo people will keep buying Teslas.
Last edited by syswei; 06-11-2016 at 05:22 PM.
06-13-2016, 09:08 PM
#192
MBWorld Fanatic!
The one "benefit" touted by Tesla owners and factory, the ability to change/update software remotely, with no actual access to the car itself is another reason that makes me wary.
If factory can do it, so can any decent hacker, opens the door to all new options in crime....
Like taking over full control of a car and forcing it (with driver hopelessly imprisoned inside) to go to a remote location to do whatever they want.
If factory can do it, so can any decent hacker, opens the door to all new options in crime....
Like taking over full control of a car and forcing it (with driver hopelessly imprisoned inside) to go to a remote location to do whatever they want.
Yes, a Tesla Model S is the most connected and feature rich software implementation in a production car. Software updates deliver additional features and enhanced functionality every few months but what makes it so good is that the system from the ground up has been built with security in mind. There are multiple firewalls and access control at each network gateway within the car.
Watch the video below from Def Con 23, essentially a hacker conference. You'll have to watch the video to get an appreciation for all the security that is built into a Tesla and how well it is designed. They eventually managed to access a Tesla but in order to do that they needed physical access to the car and essentially ended up taking the car apart. Basically when you have that level of physical access anyone can do anything to a car.
Even with all that effort what they could do with the car was very limited and no safety or actual driving subsystems were compromised. What little they could get access to Tesla fixed with an over the air software update to the entire fleet of installed cars. Any other manufacturer and you'd have to haul your car to the dealer for a fix.
06-13-2016, 09:16 PM
#193
MBWorld Fanatic!
I haven't looked into the facts/allegations in this suspension/NDA stuff, but I will say that there is an upside to Tesla owners from the company being high-profile and high P/E multiple and needing to raise capital: it will force Musk to treat customers decently, because if he doesn't, the outsize publicity Tesla gets will hurt the company. Going back, Tesla fixed its fire problem by putting kevlar on the underside. It fixed the rear safety issue by reinforcing the rear.
BTW my W221 had its share of suspension isssues. The airmatic system, I think it was a pump or compressor or something (?) sometimes caused a high-pitched whining noise. The service manager said some noise is normal but mine was clearly excessive. The part was replaced TWICE (under warranty and then extended warranty), but each time, I still had excessive noise. IMO the reason the replacements failed: MB replaced the part with REMANUFACTURED parts, so with each replacement I was probably getting a noisy part that some other poor sucker W221 owner had had taken out of his car by MB, cleaned up, and put in my car! How's that for great customer service?
Notice though that despite the problem, I went and bought a W222. Every car and company is going to have positives and negatives, but people keep buying MBs, and imo people will keep buying Teslas.
BTW my W221 had its share of suspension isssues. The airmatic system, I think it was a pump or compressor or something (?) sometimes caused a high-pitched whining noise. The service manager said some noise is normal but mine was clearly excessive. The part was replaced TWICE (under warranty and then extended warranty), but each time, I still had excessive noise. IMO the reason the replacements failed: MB replaced the part with REMANUFACTURED parts, so with each replacement I was probably getting a noisy part that some other poor sucker W221 owner had had taken out of his car by MB, cleaned up, and put in my car! How's that for great customer service?
Notice though that despite the problem, I went and bought a W222. Every car and company is going to have positives and negatives, but people keep buying MBs, and imo people will keep buying Teslas.
What then happened is someone who apparently can't stand Tesla filed a bunch of NHTSA complaints with made up information. NHTSA investigated, found no issue and the case is essentially closed.
If anyone cares to read about the whole story, here are the details:
http://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-...keef-wivaneff/
06-13-2016, 09:36 PM
#194
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well said, MTrauman. Musk is a loose canon and plus he knows the market (like Martin Shkreli) i.e. the habits of a typical luxury vehicle buyer. We like to experience new things, I have even experienced a Model S (S60 and gotten rid of that seriously over-hyped and highly misleading marketing on the vehicle).
Musk has two part times jobs and each requires serious manufacturing. With his one part time job at Tesla, he has managed to build a sedan that is outselling the Mercedes S Class in the same price segment in the US and Europe. The demand for Tesla is so great that the Model 3 coming out next year has nearly 400,000 orders solely based on the reputation of the Model S.
With his other part time job at SpaceX, within about the next year Musk's privately held SpaceX is on the verge of becoming the world's largest space launch provider with more space launches than Russia, China, and Europe COMBINED. Notice Musk's competition is not just merely other companies but entire nation states. And the upcoming Falcon Heavy Rocket will be the world's most powerful operational rocket by a factor of 2.
With Musk's companies Tesla and SpaceX, America is innovating and building rockets and cars in the United States that are better than what is built by any other country. This is what Musk is doing and if that makes him a "loose cannon" I wish we had more such "loose cannons" in this country.
Shkreli's innovated by jacking up prices on pharmaceuticals to fleece sick people.
Musk innovates by launching spacecraft into orbit and landing the rocket booster on a floating drone ship in the middle of the ocean. An accomplishment that I am sure people like you and every one of his competitors thought would be impossible as it is easier for someone to underestimate Musk when they have a limited imagination
Last edited by WEBSRFR; 06-14-2016 at 10:36 AM.
06-13-2016, 10:10 PM
#195
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There is so much FUD and disinformation here against Tesla and the Model S, I don't even know where to start. I feel ashamed on behalf of my fellow Mercedes enthusiasts and feel sorry for WEBSRFR for the crap that has been thrown at him, although WEBSRFR perhaps comes off a bit too "fanboi". I want to add my quick European 2 cents here from a long-time (ex) Mercedes/German car owner for a little objectivity. I have never owned or even considered owning an US-made car (sorry!). That is, before Tesla.
For background information, I'm a serious long-time petrolhead and I have owned for example a Porsche 911 (996) turbo, Audi A6 biturbo TDI, Mercedes CLS 55 AMG, and Audi S6 V10. Prior to buying my first Tesla Model S, I owned a 2008 Mercedes S500 4matic. All of these cars have been my daily drivers and only cars at the time. I always own just one (nice) car at a time which we share with my wife.
I laughed at electric cars before Tesla came to the picture. However, test driving a Model S 85 (non-performance) changed everything back in 2014. After driving the Tesla, my Mercedes S500 felt slow, jerky, and just outdated. Actually, after test driving the all-new S500 it felt outdated too. Especially the engine and transmission response/delay of a gas engine started to bother me after experiencing the Tesla's no-delay electric powertrain. Gas powertrain delays never bothered me before, but once I experienced the instant "flying carpet" or "roller-coaster" feeling of the Model S, a gas car has not felt the same anymore. The only thing that put me off from buying a Tesla after the test drive was that they were all RWD and with our tough winters and poor experiences with my CLS 55 AMG (getting stuck all of the time even with excellent Nordic winter tires) I had promised I would never buy a RWD car again.
But after just 3 months after my first Tesla test drive back in Autumn 2014, I sold my S500 and bought a used Model S 85 Performance Plus (P85+). The P85D had just been released, but the used P85+ was much cheaper, so I decided to buy that model first just to make sure I did not make a wrong decision going all-electric. It was after all my only daily driver. I had the P85+ for 6 months during our rough Finnish -30C winter and the car was phenomenal even though it was only RWD. The rear-biased weight distribution and electric traction control was far superior to my previous RWD CLS 55. The Tesla felt closer to AWD than RWD and traction was actually not really an issue. Sure there was some tire-spinning here and there due to the massive 0-RPM torque, but it was never a problem like with the CLS. The roller-coaster feeling of the P85+ was so addictive it made me giggle like a child. It was so much fun!
My 6 months "trial period" for the Tesla was enough and I knew the Model S was the right choice for me. Sure, there were some minor interior amenities that I miss that were on my previous cars such as 360 degree Top View, night vision, HUD, LED headlights, massaging and ventilated seats, but the Model S has so many other better qualities that it was still the far better car as a whole. I want to stress this: The Model S is not perfect and is not for everyone (especially the interior is a futuristic and minimalistic design, but it grows on you), so I think everyone should do a long test drive with the car to make sure it feels right for your lifestyle and meets your requirements. However, there are many other Tesla/Model S positives that do not come up during a test drive, for example excellent customer service that I have never experienced from any Mercedes, Audi or Porsche dealer. With Tesla, you really feel like the customer is the king. I bought a P85D in the summer of 2015 and now I'm waiting for the Ludicrous update. The P85D has exceeded all of my very high expectations and it has been an excellent car. I am extremely satisfied with the car and Tesla's service. So far with 35.000 kilometers, there has been no maintenance and I have only had to replace one handle that occasionally during freezing days did not come out. The repair experience with Tesla was like nothing I had previously experienced. Everything that was agreed was kept and customer service was excellent. They actually washed and cleaned my car inside-out free-of-charge and I got a nice new Model S loaner without even asking! Of course, the repair did not cost a dime. The whole experience could not have been better. Tesla really goes a long way to ensure customer satisfaction. We have taxi drivers with Model S's that have driven over 100,000 kilometers without even once visiting the service center for a repair or maintenance! That is not possible with any gas car.
In my opinion the best part of the Model S and what made me switch permanently from gas cars is the 0-lag powertrain, superior acceleration, very low maintenance and "fuel" etc. daily costs, the high-tech including the 17" display, and over-the-air updates. The car gets better and new features almost every month. Especially with the powertrain there is just no comparison or with Porsche words, there is no substitute. Every morning I have a "full tank" and plugging in the outlet takes a few seconds, it becomes a no-brainer routine. Now, when I drive by gas stations I feel sorry for people waiting in long lines during gas sale campaigns to get a 10 cent discount.
Even long-distance travel has never been a problem with the Model S thanks to superchargers, quick chargers, home charging, and destination chargers. I could see a problem for people that have to drive hundreds of kilometers/miles every day that the Tesla might not be convenient anymore, but for the majority of people like me with a 50 kilometer commute and occasional 200-1000 kilometer trip it really is no problem. Stopping every 300-450 kilometers (=the real world range of the Model S with my quite hard driving, in winter at -20C it is closer to 280 kilometers) to go to the bathroom and eat something makes the trip relaxing. Range has never been an issue to me, but you have to change your thinking and routines from gas cars. You have a full tank every day! You don't drive somewhere to refuel once or twice a week like with a gas car.
As I said, I have never owned or considered owning an US-made car, because they felt generations behind German cars. The good thing about the Model S is that it does NOT feel like and American car. It feels like a German car. Not as perfect from a build quality standpoint, but Tesla's build quality is improving all of the time and there was a big positive difference between my P85+ and my P85D (VINS were 28xxx and 56xxx). The newest VINS of 100,000+ are even better.
I still love the sound of a V8, V10 and V12 and I admit I occasionally miss it. However, the serenity of the Model S, the Star Wars "warp drive" sounds and just effortless fun drive made the choice a no-brainer for me. Join the rEVolution!
P.S. Tesla is still a startup company. Other car companies have been around for 100 years, so it is impressive what Tesla has achieved in just a few years. Perhaps the stock is overvalued - depends how successful Tesla will be in the long run and with the Model 3 - but the truth is that currently Tesla has no competition. Tesla spends a lot of money for R&D and that is why they lose money. Their missions is to build the Model 3 and it takes huge investments to get to that goal. If Tesla wanted to make a profit, they could just make the Model S and X and stop investing, but that would be a poor long-term strategy for a growth company. Here's a good read: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/10/t...-each-model-s/
For background information, I'm a serious long-time petrolhead and I have owned for example a Porsche 911 (996) turbo, Audi A6 biturbo TDI, Mercedes CLS 55 AMG, and Audi S6 V10. Prior to buying my first Tesla Model S, I owned a 2008 Mercedes S500 4matic. All of these cars have been my daily drivers and only cars at the time. I always own just one (nice) car at a time which we share with my wife.
I laughed at electric cars before Tesla came to the picture. However, test driving a Model S 85 (non-performance) changed everything back in 2014. After driving the Tesla, my Mercedes S500 felt slow, jerky, and just outdated. Actually, after test driving the all-new S500 it felt outdated too. Especially the engine and transmission response/delay of a gas engine started to bother me after experiencing the Tesla's no-delay electric powertrain. Gas powertrain delays never bothered me before, but once I experienced the instant "flying carpet" or "roller-coaster" feeling of the Model S, a gas car has not felt the same anymore. The only thing that put me off from buying a Tesla after the test drive was that they were all RWD and with our tough winters and poor experiences with my CLS 55 AMG (getting stuck all of the time even with excellent Nordic winter tires) I had promised I would never buy a RWD car again.
But after just 3 months after my first Tesla test drive back in Autumn 2014, I sold my S500 and bought a used Model S 85 Performance Plus (P85+). The P85D had just been released, but the used P85+ was much cheaper, so I decided to buy that model first just to make sure I did not make a wrong decision going all-electric. It was after all my only daily driver. I had the P85+ for 6 months during our rough Finnish -30C winter and the car was phenomenal even though it was only RWD. The rear-biased weight distribution and electric traction control was far superior to my previous RWD CLS 55. The Tesla felt closer to AWD than RWD and traction was actually not really an issue. Sure there was some tire-spinning here and there due to the massive 0-RPM torque, but it was never a problem like with the CLS. The roller-coaster feeling of the P85+ was so addictive it made me giggle like a child. It was so much fun!
My 6 months "trial period" for the Tesla was enough and I knew the Model S was the right choice for me. Sure, there were some minor interior amenities that I miss that were on my previous cars such as 360 degree Top View, night vision, HUD, LED headlights, massaging and ventilated seats, but the Model S has so many other better qualities that it was still the far better car as a whole. I want to stress this: The Model S is not perfect and is not for everyone (especially the interior is a futuristic and minimalistic design, but it grows on you), so I think everyone should do a long test drive with the car to make sure it feels right for your lifestyle and meets your requirements. However, there are many other Tesla/Model S positives that do not come up during a test drive, for example excellent customer service that I have never experienced from any Mercedes, Audi or Porsche dealer. With Tesla, you really feel like the customer is the king. I bought a P85D in the summer of 2015 and now I'm waiting for the Ludicrous update. The P85D has exceeded all of my very high expectations and it has been an excellent car. I am extremely satisfied with the car and Tesla's service. So far with 35.000 kilometers, there has been no maintenance and I have only had to replace one handle that occasionally during freezing days did not come out. The repair experience with Tesla was like nothing I had previously experienced. Everything that was agreed was kept and customer service was excellent. They actually washed and cleaned my car inside-out free-of-charge and I got a nice new Model S loaner without even asking! Of course, the repair did not cost a dime. The whole experience could not have been better. Tesla really goes a long way to ensure customer satisfaction. We have taxi drivers with Model S's that have driven over 100,000 kilometers without even once visiting the service center for a repair or maintenance! That is not possible with any gas car.
In my opinion the best part of the Model S and what made me switch permanently from gas cars is the 0-lag powertrain, superior acceleration, very low maintenance and "fuel" etc. daily costs, the high-tech including the 17" display, and over-the-air updates. The car gets better and new features almost every month. Especially with the powertrain there is just no comparison or with Porsche words, there is no substitute. Every morning I have a "full tank" and plugging in the outlet takes a few seconds, it becomes a no-brainer routine. Now, when I drive by gas stations I feel sorry for people waiting in long lines during gas sale campaigns to get a 10 cent discount.
Even long-distance travel has never been a problem with the Model S thanks to superchargers, quick chargers, home charging, and destination chargers. I could see a problem for people that have to drive hundreds of kilometers/miles every day that the Tesla might not be convenient anymore, but for the majority of people like me with a 50 kilometer commute and occasional 200-1000 kilometer trip it really is no problem. Stopping every 300-450 kilometers (=the real world range of the Model S with my quite hard driving, in winter at -20C it is closer to 280 kilometers) to go to the bathroom and eat something makes the trip relaxing. Range has never been an issue to me, but you have to change your thinking and routines from gas cars. You have a full tank every day! You don't drive somewhere to refuel once or twice a week like with a gas car.
As I said, I have never owned or considered owning an US-made car, because they felt generations behind German cars. The good thing about the Model S is that it does NOT feel like and American car. It feels like a German car. Not as perfect from a build quality standpoint, but Tesla's build quality is improving all of the time and there was a big positive difference between my P85+ and my P85D (VINS were 28xxx and 56xxx). The newest VINS of 100,000+ are even better.
I still love the sound of a V8, V10 and V12 and I admit I occasionally miss it. However, the serenity of the Model S, the Star Wars "warp drive" sounds and just effortless fun drive made the choice a no-brainer for me. Join the rEVolution!
P.S. Tesla is still a startup company. Other car companies have been around for 100 years, so it is impressive what Tesla has achieved in just a few years. Perhaps the stock is overvalued - depends how successful Tesla will be in the long run and with the Model 3 - but the truth is that currently Tesla has no competition. Tesla spends a lot of money for R&D and that is why they lose money. Their missions is to build the Model 3 and it takes huge investments to get to that goal. If Tesla wanted to make a profit, they could just make the Model S and X and stop investing, but that would be a poor long-term strategy for a growth company. Here's a good read: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/10/t...-each-model-s/
Mercedes really blew it by waiting this long to build a high performance long range EV. When the Model S came out in 2012 it should have been a wake up call. By the time Mercedes finally builds a proper EV sedan (supposedly around 2020) they will have to try and win back the customers they've lost to Tesla.
06-14-2016, 08:26 AM
#196
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kenilworth, il usa
Posts: 2,924
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on
244 Posts
'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
Basically the whole suspension story ended up being about nothing. A customer who drives on a dirt road basically had his drive axel boot deteriorate and over time it essentially stopped protecting the drive axel. As would happen with any car this led to an axel failure. Incidentally we just replaced the axel boots of our Mercedes or the same would have eventually happened to our car. This is why preventive maintenance is so important.
What then happened is someone who apparently can't stand Tesla filed a bunch of NHTSA complaints with made up information. NHTSA investigated, found no issue and the case is essentially closed.
If anyone cares to read about the whole story, here are the details:
http://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-...keef-wivaneff/
What then happened is someone who apparently can't stand Tesla filed a bunch of NHTSA complaints with made up information. NHTSA investigated, found no issue and the case is essentially closed.
If anyone cares to read about the whole story, here are the details:
http://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-...keef-wivaneff/
Case is not closed at all.
Also, please use some more credible sources instead of Musk's sounding tube.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In...happy-about-it
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/bu...n-failure.html
Last edited by absent; 06-14-2016 at 08:31 AM.
06-14-2016, 09:16 AM
#197
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Basically the whole suspension story ended up being about nothing. A customer who drives on a dirt road basically had his drive axel boot deteriorate and over time it essentially stopped protecting the drive axel. As would happen with any car this led to an axel failure. Incidentally we just replaced the axel boots of our Mercedes or the same would have eventually happened to our car. This is why preventive maintenance is so important.
What then happened is someone who apparently can't stand Tesla filed a bunch of NHTSA complaints with made up information. NHTSA investigated, found no issue and the case is essentially closed.
If anyone cares to read about the whole story, here are the details:
http://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-...keef-wivaneff/
What then happened is someone who apparently can't stand Tesla filed a bunch of NHTSA complaints with made up information. NHTSA investigated, found no issue and the case is essentially closed.
If anyone cares to read about the whole story, here are the details:
http://electrek.co/2016/06/13/tesla-...keef-wivaneff/
Looks like WEBSRFR is back (must have been on vacation since we have had less Tesla Kool Aid spilled in this forum lately).
Here in PA where I live and the guy in the Tesla stories lives, we are required to get state inspections every year. I would bet that the guy in the story gets his state inspections done by the Tesla dealer. So it is possible the Tesla Model S has a product defect in design and/or the local Tesla dealer missed the signs of the problem on this guys particular car during annual inspections.
In any event, Musk is a "loose cannon" since he initially responded by saying this guy lives down a dirt road then later stated the guy does not live down a dirt road.
Here is CNBC's report:
Tesla said Thursday the car with over 70,000 miles had abnormal rust and that the Pennsylvania owner lived down such a long dirt road that it required two tow trucks to retrieve the car. The owner said the car had only been on a dirt road once or twice, and Musk later conceded to the Wall Street Journal that Tesla had erred in saying the owner lived on a dirt road.
WEBSRFR is it possible for you to stop advertising for Tesla and simply be reasonable about Tesla? I doubt it but I thought I would ask the question.
06-14-2016, 10:28 AM
#198
MBWorld Fanatic!
Most here already read/heard Musk's statement about this case, you do not have to repeat his "damage control" speech.
Case is not closed at all.
Also, please use some more credible sources instead of Musk's sounding tube.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In...happy-about-it
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/bu...n-failure.html
Case is not closed at all.
Also, please use some more credible sources instead of Musk's sounding tube.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In...happy-about-it
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/bu...n-failure.html
What is interesting to note is that 37 of 40 suspension complaints to NHTSA were fraudulent, i.e. false location or vehicle identification numbers were used.
While there is nothing here if you want to be really outraged about a defective part in a car that resulted in a carmaker loosing a lawsuit and having to pay look up the M272 & M273 balance shaft fiasco. Incidentally one of our cars was affected by this and it was an almost $7,000 repair.
https://eclaim.kccllc.net/caclaimforms/mse/faqs.aspx
06-14-2016, 10:43 AM
#199
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
The case might not be closed in your head but as far as the NHTSA is concerned they investigated this issues and found nothing.
What is interesting to note is that 37 of 40 suspension complaints to NHTSA were fraudulent, i.e. false location or vehicle identification numbers were used.
While there is nothing here if you want to be really outraged about a defective part in a car that resulted in a carmaker loosing a lawsuit and having to pay look up the M272 & M273 balance shaft fiasco. Incidentally one of our cars was affected by this and it was an almost $7,000 repair.
https://eclaim.kccllc.net/caclaimforms/mse/faqs.aspx
What is interesting to note is that 37 of 40 suspension complaints to NHTSA were fraudulent, i.e. false location or vehicle identification numbers were used.
While there is nothing here if you want to be really outraged about a defective part in a car that resulted in a carmaker loosing a lawsuit and having to pay look up the M272 & M273 balance shaft fiasco. Incidentally one of our cars was affected by this and it was an almost $7,000 repair.
https://eclaim.kccllc.net/caclaimforms/mse/faqs.aspx
Is WEBSRFR just an absolute idiot or what?
What does this MB issue have to do with the Tesla issue? Absolutely nothing!
I do not go around blasting MB about the issue I had on my new 2000 ML320 when the motor started to fail at 27000 miles and MB put a new motor in it at 37000 after lots of "pain and agony" on my part to get them to replace the motor.
WEBSRFR does not have a reasonable brain. He just wants to get everyone to drink the TESLA KOOL AID. What an air head
06-15-2016, 07:48 AM
#200
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kenilworth, il usa
Posts: 2,924
Received 378 Likes
on
244 Posts
'22 Alpina B7,'21 G63 Renntech obviously (wife), Wrangler(kids)
The case might not be closed in your head but as far as the NHTSA is concerned they investigated this issues and found nothing.
What is interesting to note is that 37 of 40 suspension complaints to NHTSA were fraudulent, i.e. false location or vehicle identification numbers were used.
While there is nothing here if you want to be really outraged about a defective part in a car that resulted in a carmaker loosing a lawsuit and having to pay look up the M272 & M273 balance shaft fiasco. Incidentally one of our cars was affected by this and it was an almost $7,000 repair.
https://eclaim.kccllc.net/caclaimforms/mse/faqs.aspx
What is interesting to note is that 37 of 40 suspension complaints to NHTSA were fraudulent, i.e. false location or vehicle identification numbers were used.
While there is nothing here if you want to be really outraged about a defective part in a car that resulted in a carmaker loosing a lawsuit and having to pay look up the M272 & M273 balance shaft fiasco. Incidentally one of our cars was affected by this and it was an almost $7,000 repair.
https://eclaim.kccllc.net/caclaimforms/mse/faqs.aspx
You are a loyal Tesla employee, congrats! they should give you a raise.
I'm done here...
