Wolfman

Mercedes used to have the S550 (in the US and some other markets) which for many years has just been a re-branded S500.

This has simply been a marketing strategy as the cars were the essentially the same.
From what I gather, this is now changing...

The S560 will be the designated V8 replacement and called that way in many or maybe all markets. This car features the M176 V8 4 liter engine.

The S500 will become a 6 cylinder car.
Along with the S400/S450 it will share the inline 6 M256 engine. 435HP and same 0-60 performance; so it's close to the current S550 V8 (M276) but with consumption dropping by 25%.

This will happen after the model introduction.

Reenu Mathew

This was really very informative post about Mercedes Engine variants and Model designations..

syswei

Are you saying that in the US, there will be a S450, S500, and S560 concurrently? Or do you mean the 6-cyl S500 will replace the S450? And do you think it would happen during MY2018, rather than for MY2019?

michaelleongcl

Some new information from the Vienna Motor Symposium 2017 about the S350d/S400d as well as the S350/S400/S500

S350d (I6): 286HP and 600NM from 1200 to 3200 rpm

S400d (I6): 340HP and 700NM from 1200 to 3200 rpm

Both Diesel-engines consume 6% to 10% less fuel that its predecessor under real conditions.

S350 (I4): 300hp + 16HP/160NM E-Boost
0-62 in 5,9 sec.
Approx. 23% less fuel consumption compared to an S400

S400 (new I6): 367HP and 500NM. No word about E-Boost and consumption so far.









S500 (new I6): 435HP and 520NM +22HP/250NM E-Boost. 0-62 in 4,8 sec.
Approx. 25% less fuel consumption compared to a V6 with similar performance.

E 50 AMG 4matic (M256 R6 petrol engine, new engine with E-Turbo & 48 Volt and integrated starter generator ISG): 435 hp +20 hp (power can not be added because they are not at the same speed) 530 NM, consumption not yet certified. "




Is the s500 using the same engine as the rumored E50 amg?

michaelleongcl

There will also be S350 outside the US. It will use the new 4 cylinder m264 engine. It will produce 300hp +16hp(from the electric motor)

syswei

IMO we won't see that small-engined an S for the US market. Other places, sure.

MTrauman

Based on the DOG in the US for MY 2018, there will be a S450, S450 4matic, S560, S560 4matic, S63 4matic, and a S65. There will not be a S500 concurrently. The current model S550 in the US is actually an S500 but the US re-brands it to a S550.


The 2018 DOG lists the S450 with 362 hp while the S560 is listed with 463 hp.


The S450 is a 3.0L V6 biturbo while the S560 is a 4.0L V8 bi turbo.

Wolfman

I didn't' mention the Diesel variants as MB has decided not to sell Diesel engines in the US anymore. At least for now but this is unlikely to change...

A 4 cyl S-Class will definitely not happen in the US

In regards to syswei's question, I don't think that the S500 designation would fit in from a marketing perspective.

syswei

BTW sounds like the S550e might be discontinued at least in the US?...which could be why it isn't in the DOG:

"The S450 essentially replaces the outgoing six-cylinder S550e plug-in-hybrid model (there’s no word on the plug-in’s fate)" source

Or I guess it could appear but much later in the MY.

syswei

Here's a little tidbit about the M256:

"This one is not one of the debut engines for the new S Class but Mercedes says it’s coming soon. It’s the same 3.0 liter displacement, but it’s a gasoline engine with an electric turbo, which spins with the assistance of an electric motor. That should kill turbo lag, Mercedes argues....408 horsepower and 370 lb-ft of torque " source

michaelleongcl

Yeah, diesel and small petrol are likely unlikely in US. I should have been clearer and mentioned that it is for the world market

gr1nch

The aren't any small engines in the UK either, except the 4 pot in the 300h diesel hybrid which, judging by resales are not popular. Today on the MBUK website these are the available models to order - can we assume all MY18?

michaelleongcl

New S450 petrol engine with the old M276 V6 engine?

michaelleongcl

got this from another forum.

S 560 and S 560 4MATIC
new V8 (M176) with cylinder shut-off: 345 kW (469 hp) and 700 Nm

S 450 and S 450 4MATIC
newly developed 6-cylinder Inline gasoline engine (M256): 270 kW + 15 kW EQ Boost (367 hp + 20 hp) and 500 Nm

S 500
for the first time with 6-cylinder Inline engine(M256): 320 kW + 15 kW EQ Boost (435 hp + 20 hp) and 520 Nm

S 350 d, S 350 d 4MATIC
newly developed 6-cylinder Inline diesel engine (OM656): 210 kW (286 hp) and 600 Nm

S 400 d and S 400 d 4MATIC 250 kW (340 hp) and 700 Nm

Streamliner

Has anybody been able to pin down when these other variants will be available in the USA?

Jason B

Most likely won't see the diesel. I remember when Mercedes had 5-6 different S class engines at one point, then just brought it back to the main 500/550 v8 and amg variants for USA. I think people spending 100k, aren't really wanting a 6 cylinder here, as sales numbers have showed, and then they just stuck with the v8's etc. I do think it's funny that the US is now going to call it the s560, and in Germany, etc it's staying the same name out there. Mercedes used to go by the engine displacement, which is now way off unless you go back to the w221 engines.

Wolfman

It makes sense not to link the designations to engine sizes anymore as engines have significantly smaller displacements.
Who would want to call the S63 (back in the NA days) the S40. Definitely sounds less impressive even though the 4 liter model will run circles around any prior S63 engines (including the current one)

That said, I am not sure what you mean by Germany keeping the same name. The S560 and upcoming S500 (V6 engine) have the same designations worldwide.
The oddball is the 2018 S450 which will temporarily be offered with the usual V6 before being replaced by the new inline 6 (M256 engine) which will power also the S500.

This will likely be a MY19 switch and could also be called S400 in the US in case MB decides also to bring the S500 over here in upcoming model years... S450, S500, S560 would make zero sense marketing-wise

Germancar1

Agree. I think they'll just keep the S450 as is in the U.S., but swap out the V6 for an I6 for the 2019 model year, with about 400hp. It should have been this year. They aren't going to go down from S450 to S400 with a new more powerful engine. That plus Americans like the biggest number possible on the back of their Benz. Hence the "560" designation is coming back, though the motor is going from a 4.7L V8 to a 4L one. Legendary tag back in the day of the 560SEL and 560SEC. Gone are the days of 3 distinct non AMG/V12 models like the 300SE, 400SE and 500SEL in 1992 with the introduction of the W140. There was supposed to be a S450 with the W221, but they pulled it at the last min, but Canada got it.

You can't focus on other market designations, it's too much lol.

M

michaelleongcl

I believe MBUSA will offer the non AMG S Class as S450 and S560. The S500(I6) is too close to the S560 in terms of hp.

Streamliner

I believe that there is a concerted effort on MB's part, to get their non-AMG customers to accept smaller engines with fewer cylinders and to ween us away from V8's and surely V12's. With this in mind, I do believe that we will see the S500 I6 here. In the USA, to most folks out there, an S Class with a "5" as the first digit is a good enough status symbol. Offer the 6 at a substantial savings over the 8, with similar, or at least decent performance, and the S500 will be a home run. MB would love nothing more than for previous V8 customers to go for a 6 in the S Class. I believe this is why the new E was debuted with only an I4 available in non-AMG trim. The more smaller engined cars they sell, the easier it is for them to continue lining their pockets from selling monster AMG vehicles and to meet CAFE standards at the same time.

This new engine news is making me second guess my new car plans. After going round and around, I was planning on ordering a new S560 in September. However, an S500 sounds very enticing, so I'm back to considering what to do. It's always something!

RJC

The new inline 6's will be a huge improvement from the V configuration (inline 6's are inherently smooth) and MB's effort with the M256 version appears to be a very good one. The M256 is a long-stroke design with a half-liter-per-cylinder displacement. ~408 HP 370 LB FT.

I do however luv the torque monster M278 in the 550's.

Mitch Alsup

Americans don't care about the number of cylinders or the engine displacement.
Americans care about TQ and HP.

Oh and BTW, an I6 can easily be better balanced than a V6.

Wolfman

Don't think so. The number one complaint about the new E-Class in the US is that it has a 4 cyclinder engine. At least on that model nobody cares about hp/torque.

And I am not referring to this forum alone...

Streamliner

I have never driven an E300, but we were not considering one to replace my wife's 2016 E350, until about a week ago, when it was announced that the E400, 6 cylinder model would be available in 2018. I know they can do great things with turbos, but when spending around $80K for a new luxury sedan, a 4 cylinder that sounds like a bucket of bolts at parking lot speeds, just didn't cut it for us. Since I believe the 2018 will come with the old V6, we may wait for 2019, when, hopefully, the new I6 replaces it.

RJC

Never cared for 4 bangers but they have gotten much smoother especially at idle, and more powerful (thanks to the turbo' s). Still wouldn't buy one. We passed on the new XC90 as our new SUV because of it being a 4 pot.