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It's normal for these car to build some level of moisture, but only a little, however in your case based on the photo attached in your earlier post, the moisture level seems to be 10x more than the "normal" level of these lights. Despite that the moisture build up is normal for these lights but the level your light had seems to be due to a problem with the light assembly itself as it's way more than all other cars. This is an indication of a bad seal or manufacturing issue!!!! I bit you if they replace them for you you won't see this much of moisture even under extreme humid weather conditions.
Sounds like it s a pretty common problem which means its a design issue particularly given that SClass350d began to see moisture in the new headlights. Its unacceptable.
I have acquired a sudden state of anxiety from all of the above.......however the guy that made reference to the M.B. extended warranty left me confused !! I immediately got out my warranty with M.B. and read it completely. It is an EXCLUSIONARY POLICY and only lists in detail everything that is excluded. Therefore some of the expensive items needing repair or replacement from the above posts would be covered. All of this needs more clarification for sure.
Nice Ride and SClass350d - Thank you for posting your experiences with this giving potential W222 buyers a heads up on potential issues. I'm one who tends to be in the buy after the warranty is expired and self insure but these kinds of problems can certainly undermine that strategy. There really is not a post warranty cost effective solution to a problem of this nature, short of being able to repair the circuit board which looks beyond repair.
BTW NiceRide where do you live? Assuming SClass350d is in UK where it would be very damp. Just wondering if it is particularly wet where you live.
US New York Area. Car sees 4 seasons. In summer, depending on where the car is parked, moisture will appear in headlamp assembly. Also, after hand washing car, often will cause moisture buildup. No, i do not spray headlamps or headlamp area with excessive amounts of water. Its as if the ambient humid air and the cool lamp assembly is the cause.
UPDATE.
Car went in for service, Multiple errors on the DIC for headlamps, flickering headlight on left, error shows up for right, night vision only works during day. Also rear noise between 56 and 65 MPH ( This was reported during Warrantee period) test drive was able to duplicate at that time but no solution, its normal.
So, everyone, please keep ALL documentation / Photos etc. Both headlamps had water, not just a bit of vapor at the top, enough that the water would drip down on the inside. Dealer installed gel packs in both. Problem continued, then while car was in for service for another item, I received a call the right headlamp was out. They took the assembly apart and showed me photos of the ballast covered in corrosion and black crud. They said this is not under warrantee, I said the assemble is defective and reported this months back, they stated the gel pack leaked. After multiple conversation with them that this was reported several times with photos of severe moisture, they replaced the entire headlamp assembly. Fast forward 1 year, the above errors were reported with the rear noise. I received a call that both headlamps failed and electronics damaged due to moisture corrosion. Repair cost for both headlamps and electronics over $10,000- WTF. I submitted documentation on the rear axle noise from the forum as this is a known problem, I figured I have the MB Extended warrantee, rear is covered..... Well was I wrong on that also..... The seal and bearing are NOT covered. Cost to fix the rear noise $2,600-. Manager made me a deal, I pay for Brake pads and rear end work, and he will cover the Headlamps. I had no choice but to pay for the rear, the pads were fine and they were willing to remove them off the estimate. P.S. the cost to replace the tiny LED bulb in the Front Passenger External Handle over $400-. Not....
For those members wanting to know if they should take out the MB EXTENDED WARANTEE, I say NO. Read the fine print!!!!!! LITERALLY, PRINT IT OUT AND R E A D IT, IT BASICALLY COVERS THE POWERTRAIN.... It basically ONLY COVERS PARTS STATED and NOTHING ELSE. WHAT A Gimmick. Steering Linkage Failure NOT COVERED $680- Rear Axle Noise NOT COVERED $2,600-
Keep your $$$ and do NOT take out the MB Extended Warrantee…. Just my experience.
So, according to the Dealer, the New Headlamps for the W222 Late 2013 on are a redesigned assemble and do not require Gel Pac's. Time will tell, its winter now, will report back in summer...
EVERYONE WITH GEL PAC REPAIR, HAVE THEM CHECKED!!!! They do and will fail. MB Warrantee on any repairs out of warrantee are only 12 months. The Gel Packs can only absorb so much moisture, then they just disintegrate, damaging everything in the headlamp assembly after it leaks into the electronics. They should publish a TSB or notify ALL Owners that had repair done. It was a patch, not a fix... And can cost you dearly...
Was the $10K just for the headlights and their controllers? If so what was the breakdown?
Was the $10K just for the headlights and their controllers? If so what was the breakdown?
Yes. According to them, the electronics were damaged by the Moisture/Water form the failed Gel Packs. P.S. I have Night Vision also.
I will try and locate paperwork and upload a photo. Bad news..... Rear Axle did NOT fix the noise. Will need to schedule another appointment and see what will happen. They took the money and did not fix the problem.....
If anyone has a suggestion as to what this noise is, please let me know what specifically they should look at. When the vehicle reached 56mph, the whirring noise starts and sounds like to it coming from rear passenger side. The noise will increase with speed. This can be recreated by doing the following. NOTE: It helps tremendously by testing on an calm day, no wind, no rain and on the parkway. I set cruse and increase speed by tapping Distronic 1 mph at a time. once it stabilizes, I then increase again. The sound is related to speed, not the transmission or brakes. The noise will not change if I force a different gear, nor will it change if I put the car into neutral, so that rules out the transmission mostly. The sound will remain between 56 and 68 mostly. Any help will be greatly appreciated. The part I'm upset with is that I did not test the car sooner. I don't drive it much and when I do, it needs to be calm weather and no traffic.
Good News is that the headlamp issues are gone and I plan on getting the lamps covered with 3M Clear Protection. I hate when they start to show that etched dulling due to the dirty road conditions in NY. Now that they replaced them, I have a 2nd chance to protect them.
Yes. According to them, the electronics were damaged by the Moisture/Water form the failed Gel Packs. P.S. I have Night Vision also.
I will try and locate paperwork and upload a photo. Bad news..... Rear Axle did NOT fix the noise. Will need to schedule another appointment and see what will happen. They took the money and did not fix the problem.....
If anyone has a suggestion as to what this noise is, please let me know what specifically they should look at. When the vehicle reached 56mph, the whirring noise starts and sounds like to it coming from rear passenger side. The noise will increase with speed. This can be recreated by doing the following. NOTE: It helps tremendously by testing on an calm day, no wind, no rain and on the parkway. I set cruse and increase speed by tapping Distronic 1 mph at a time. once it stabilizes, I then increase again. The sound is related to speed, not the transmission or brakes. The noise will not change if I force a different gear, nor will it change if I put the car into neutral, so that rules out the transmission mostly. The sound will remain between 56 and 68 mostly. Any help will be greatly appreciated. The part I'm upset with is that I did not test the car sooner. I don't drive it much and when I do, it needs to be calm weather and no traffic.
Good News is that the headlamp issues are gone and I plan on getting the lamps covered with 3M Clear Protection. I hate when they start to show that etched dulling due to the dirty road conditions in NY. Now that they replaced them, I have a 2nd chance to protect them.
Thanks for the reply.
When you say rear axle bearing what exactly are you referring to? Wheel bearing, CV joint, or differential output bearing? I assume that they eliminated the drive shaft center support bearing.
I can tell you this my car is in for a similar noise that we think is the transfer case. I just had the front differential replaced and that didn't make the noise go away and being under the car when it is running it sounds like it is coming from the transfer case which btw was rebuilt last year. It is similar to your noise in that it goes with speed wheel speed.
Are they sure it isn't a tire?
Thanks for the reply.
When you say rear axle bearing what exactly are you referring to? Wheel bearing, CV joint, or differential output bearing? I assume that they eliminated the drive shaft center support bearing.
I can tell you this my car is in for a similar noise that we think is the transfer case. I just had the front differential replaced and that didn't make the noise go away and being under the car when it is running it sounds like it is coming from the transfer case which btw was rebuilt last year. It is similar to your noise in that it goes with speed wheel speed.
Are they sure it isn't a tire?
Will pull paperwork and post. MB CPO Extended Warrantee did NOT cover rear Axle work.
Quick update from my end.... so as I mentioned back in my last post here (Nov 2019), had a new driver headlight installed (+ control units) in Nov 19 but moisture was still present 2 hours after it was installed.
I was away on vacation for three weeks while the car remained outside in some wet & windy weather. On my return it was obvious the moisture level was increasing again so I went back into the dealership.
They agreed the newly fitted headlight (4 weeks old at this point) had excessive moisture levels again so they agreed to fit a second new headlight assembly, they reused the control units. On the drive home got adaptive beam error and main beam error.
Back to the dealer again 4 days later and they fitted one new control unit (bottom one) and installed new desiccant gel packs, i think they may have reused saturated gel packs in the second new headlight previously. No moisture present since they installed the new Gel Pack & Control Unit.
My passenger side headlight has been completely clear since April 2019 when the desiccant gel pack was installed. I havent tried the micro dehumidifier i mentioned previously as the car is still under warranty that something for another day should this reoccur which I expect it will.
I'm keeping a detailed record of all the events with photos surrounding this issue and storing it here for future reference https://w222sclass.blogspot.com/
I've tried contacting Mercedes Sindelfingen (Germany) several times showing the above blog but they say they cant help and it must be dealt with at the dealer level. The dealership have been excellent to deal with they dont question the issue and replace the faulty items on each visit within an hour or two. But as I said to them replacing the faulty items with similar wont resolve the issue as its obvious there is design flaw here.
To summarize I'm now on my 3rd driver headlight assembly with desiccant Gel Pack installed(Jan 2020), and original passenger side headlight assembly desiccant Gel pack installed April 2019
Not certain how MB UK handles dealer technical assistance but ALL MB USA owners who experience this should request a PTSS case be opened with initial repair and updated with every revisit thereafter.
I’ve experienced the same thing last summer/late fall. Went to my Indy shop and it was the ballast/control module. Had rust and signs of water. They changed module and put in one of those desiccant packs (stated dealer told them to do that)
hearing all of this i think I may have them take it out if it will eventually fill and then leak and create same problem.
I agree it is ridiculous we have to deal with this.
Had Gel Packs, they do not work long term. One headlight got damaged due to moisture getting into Ballast, Light blew out while car was in for service for unrelated item. Then they tried to blame me.... you will see Mercedes will fail at supporting owners. Nothing but the best is just like a Hollywood Lot, Looks great on the outside, but at the end of the day, its just another car... Its a great car when the quality holds up and they stand behind the product, but when they will not cover dumb things like door handle lights that blow out within 2 years, that's sad.
Hi, first, the reported problem is well known to MB, but if the system is opened(headlight is opened for ventilation) there is NO chance to win the battle with with the condensention and finally, when the warranty is gone the problem with headlights will become pending, but for owner's account.
I searched a lot and studied the pictures and the reasons, why this hapanned with random results is due to position of ventilation holes. Depends on various conditions like temperature, relative wind, speed, humidity, working time of cooling fans inside engine bay, the vent holes are alwsys with different air pressure, wich allows the mist air to penetrate inside the assembly with very different results between left and right headlight. As result the condensetion inside headlights is always with different extent. On the attached picture You can see above mentioned vent holes rounded with orange for w222 headlight. As remedy there are two ways:
1.Just to install filter cap to minimize water ingress(but do not block air circulation, as the air transfers generated heat from LED modules to outside.)This way is not with ultimate results.
2.Close the system by installing compensatory volume. Using the interconnection between pressure-temperature-volume from the phisical laws we know that if we like constant pressure(in order to avoid overpressure inside headlight) , then if we rise temp, the volume will be incresed, avoiding further theretical details it could be calculated that if the internal volume of the headlight is 4 liters of air mixture and the temp is changed with 90 deg C then the new volume will be 5.5 ltrs.Thus the extra volume will be expanded in compensatory volume and the air will be used also as heat transferring element,but no outher air containing water will come in headlight. The practical solution is with price less than 5 usd.
Unfortunately the execution is not the easy part. There is a necessety to ensure access to the lower part of the headlight, where are located vent holes. Usually this could be done by remiving the fender lining.
The below mentioned system works. How it looks is not in question and nobody is forced to implement it.
Just first to remind the basics:if there is need to calculate what is the difference in volume in connection with temp at steady pressure.:
V2/V1=T2/T1, where V2 and T2 is volume and temp at final stage, V1 and T1 is volume and temp in initial stage;temp in K(kelvins) V in liters.
Now practical considerations.:
1.All vent should be closed including special membrane(rounded with blue) and holes (rounded with orange). Technical details of membrane also attached.
2.To one of the holes of the headlight(rounded with orange) should be connected the hose of compensantory volume(urine bag could be used/attached).
Thus when the air inside the headlights is heated the expanded air will move to the bag.When the temp is decreased the air from bag will return back in headlight. No outside air with water will enter in the system. For best results inside the bag could be placed some silicagel just to "kill" any residual humidity in the system. There is enough space to place the bag under the headlight in dead space below the assembly. The temperature exchange will be not affected and the air inside the system will be used as heat transfer element.
Hi, first, the reported problem is well known to MB, but if the system is opened(headlight is opened for ventilation) there is NO chance to win the battle with with the condensention and finally, when the warranty is gone the problem with headlights will become pending, but for owner's account.
I searched a lot and studied the pictures and the reasons, why this hapanned with random results is due to position of ventilation holes. Depends on various conditions like temperature, relative wind, speed, humidity, working time of cooling fans inside engine bay, the vent holes are alwsys with different air pressure, wich allows the mist air to penetrate inside the assembly with very different results between left and right headlight. As result the condensetion inside headlights is always with different extent. On the attached picture You can see above mentioned vent holes rounded with orange for w222 headlight. As remedy there are two ways:
1.Just to install filter cap to minimize water ingress(but do not block air circulation, as the air transfers generated heat from LED modules to outside.)This way is not with ultimate results.
2.Close the system by installing compensatory volume. Using the interconnection between pressure-temperature-volume from the phisical laws we know that if we like constant pressure(in order to avoid overpressure inside headlight) , then if we rise temp, the volume will be incresed, avoiding further theretical details it could be calculated that if the internal volume of the headlight is 4 liters of air mixture and the temp is changed with 90 deg C then the new volume will be 5.5 ltrs.Thus the extra volume will be expanded in compensatory volume and the air will be used also as heat transferring element,but no outher air containing water will come in headlight. The practical solution is with price less than 5 usd.
Nice analysis of the problem and proposed solutions.
Just to inform, that on my MB GLC(one of the models affected by the problem) on left headlight I installed Denko-Nitto filter elements with special membrane (2 months ago) and results after very heavy rain driving for more than 6 hrs were considered OK. Also there is no condensetion after temp changes. The conditions of the weather were searched in order to prove proper working of the filter elements and to avoid wrong assumptions. Right head light is not accessible from motor bay(cooling pot system is abstructing access) and there is need to remove lining below fender or to remove headlight in order to instal filters.This is considered hard to be done by not service help. Presently both headlights are under very close monitoring and if results will be confirmed ok(belived they will) , filter elements will be installed also on right headlight. Down below are:
1.pictures of both headlights-left without moisture and right with moisture in lower corner(highlighted with orage).
2.Filter element.(price in internet abt 5 usd).
3.GLC headlights with air breather holes(highlighted with orange).
Also above mentioned filter elements are commonly used by other manufacturers. Filter element Left headlight Right headlight Air breather holes of GLC headlight
Quick update from my end.... so as I mentioned back in my last post here (Nov 2019), had a new driver headlight installed (+ control units) in Nov 19 but moisture was still present 2 hours after it was installed.
I was away on vacation for three weeks while the car remained outside in some wet & windy weather. On my return it was obvious the moisture level was increasing again so I went back into the dealership.
They agreed the newly fitted headlight (4 weeks old at this point) had excessive moisture levels again so they agreed to fit a second new headlight assembly, they reused the control units. On the drive home got adaptive beam error and main beam error.
Back to the dealer again 4 days later and they fitted one new control unit (bottom one) and installed new desiccant gel packs, i think they may have reused saturated gel packs in the second new headlight previously. No moisture present since they installed the new Gel Pack & Control Unit.
My passenger side headlight has been completely clear since April 2019 when the desiccant gel pack was installed. I havent tried the micro dehumidifier i mentioned previously as the car is still under warranty that something for another day should this reoccur which I expect it will.
I'm keeping a detailed record of all the events with photos surrounding this issue and storing it here for future reference https://w222sclass.blogspot.com/
I've tried contacting Mercedes Sindelfingen (Germany) several times showing the above blog but they say they cant help and it must be dealt with at the dealer level. The dealership have been excellent to deal with they dont question the issue and replace the faulty items on each visit within an hour or two. But as I said to them replacing the faulty items with similar wont resolve the issue as its obvious there is design flaw here.
To summarize I'm now on my 3rd driver headlight assembly with desiccant Gel Pack installed(Jan 2020), and original passenger side headlight assembly desiccant Gel pack installed April 2019
Excellent documentation! I originally had requested the dealer give me or sell me replacement packs and they refused. Once they absorb enough moisture, they are useless. I have not seen one in person, but I'm sure you can take them apart and fill with your own replacement
Just to inform, that on my MB GLC(one of the models affected by the problem) on left headlight I installed Denko-Nitto filter elements with special membrane (2 months ago) and results after very heavy rain driving for more than 6 hrs were considered OK. Also there is no condensetion after temp changes. The conditions of the weather were searched in order to prove proper working of the filter elements and to avoid wrong assumptions. Right head light is not accessible from motor bay(cooling pot system is abstructing access) and there is need to remove lining below fender or to remove headlight in order to instal filters.This is considered hard to be done by not service help. Presently both headlights are under very close monitoring and if results will be confirmed ok(belived they will) , filter elements will be installed also on right headlight. Down below are:
1.pictures of both headlights-left without moisture and right with moisture in lower corner(highlighted with orage).
2.Filter element.(price in internet abt 5 usd).
3.GLC headlights with air breather holes(highlighted with orange).
Also above mentioned filter elements are commonly used by other manufacturers. Filter element Left headlight Right headlight Air breather holes of GLC headlight
I am assuming that the filters are a different shape than the headlight breather ports so how would you attach them? With a flexible hose?
Couple years ago I got mine replaced under warranty, I showed up to the dealer on a raining day, both was very foggy with basically water inside, left the car and service advisor call me same afternoon saying they will replace both, I believe they have to get approval from MB, he took many pictures.
I am assuming that the filters are a different shape than the headlight breather ports so how would you attach them? With a flexible hose?
Thanks for question. What I did:I took plasticine(used for children education) and made a press print of the breathing holes-it was difficult from engine bay to reach the lower part of the left headlight, but it is possible. Then I measured the size of the breathers-both were equal-abt 15mm x 21mm. After that I bought ereasers, but like plastic and i cut them with above size. Then the hole was drilled and with proper hose I made something like cap with attached filter element.Take a care when drilling hole in eraser, it is cracking very easy. Then I installed that caps to the headlight from engine bay.I cut the ereaser slightly bigger in order to be adjusted in size by using sand paper. Thus the eraser is fixed stroong enough to the breather holes.In the future I will make silicone caps from sanitary silicone in moulding with proper size. Double L shape with pipes. Moulding for caps.
All this could sound a little funny(and it is) , but the problem will be when the warranty will be gone-changing the headlight for own account-this will be not my option for sure.If somebody has better and working idea with reasonable price and efforts pls share it. Filter element, rubber hose and eraser(plastic) Filter element, hose adjusted in length and eraser. Complete cap. Filter element. Plasticine press prints-obtaining the size of breathers.
Thanks for question. What I did:I took plasticine(used for children education) and made a press print of the breathing holes-it was difficult from engine bay to reach the lower part of the left headlight, but it is possible. Then I measured the size of the breathers-both were equal-abt 15mm x 21mm. After that I bought ereasers, but like plastic and i cut them with above size. Then the hole was drilled and with proper hose I made something like cap with attached filter element.Take a care when drilling hole in eraser, it is cracking very easy. Then I installed that caps to the headlight from engine bay.I cut the ereaser slightly bigger in order to be adjusted in size by using sand paper. Thus the eraser is fixed stroong enough to the breather holes.In the future I will make silicone caps from sanitary silicone in moulding with proper size. Double L shape with pipes. Moulding for caps.
All this could sound a little funny(and it is) , but the problem will be when the warranty will be gone-changing the headlight for own account-this will be not my option for sure.If somebody has better and working idea with reasonable price and efforts pls share it. Filter element, rubber hose and eraser(plastic) Filter element, hose adjusted in length and eraser. Complete cap. Filter element. Plasticine press prints-obtaining the size of breathers.
Fair play, thanks for sharing . please report back how this goes for you over time. I was the original poster of this thread and this issue has been driving me nuts. I'm on my third right side headlight now which is currently not showing any moisture, to be expected as it's was only installed 3 months ago. Thanks again
I will keep You informed with further otcomes regarding the captioned matter. I just want to say again, that despite all this is funny, the real problem will come after the time when warranty is no more in force. That means - proactive actions are necessary now due to fact that electronics and water are Not friends.
In order to reveal the actual reason of the problem I tried to get damaged headlight assembly from dealers/insureres or to buy it at reasonable price, but presently without success.
Based on insufficient info and searching in internet it is belived, that the reason for condensation is either even missing or not proper filter elements in air breathers.Down below is a picture of s class headlight without lens, where filter elements could not be seen(not confirmed by actual check).
I would like also to say sorry for my english, as it is not my native and there are various (gramatical) errors. S class headlight with highlighted air breathers.
I will keep You informed with further otcomes regarding the captioned matter. I just want to say again, that despite all this is funny, the real problem will come after the time when warranty is no more in force. That means - proactive actions are necessary now due to fact that electronics and water are Not friends.
In order to reveal the actual reason of the problem I tried to get damaged headlight assembly from dealers/insureres or to buy it at reasonable price, but presently without success.
Based on insufficient info and searching in internet it is belived, that the reason for condensation is either even missing or not proper filter elements in air breathers.Down below is a picture of s class headlight without lens, where filter elements could not be seen(not confirmed by actual check).
I would like also to say sorry for my english, as it is not my native and there are various (gramatical) errors.
S class headlight with highlighted air breathers.
No problem on the English It is better than some native speakers. You are getting your message across. Your efforts to sort this out and go to the trouble to communicate is appreciated. Folks like you are what makes these boards great!
No problem on the English It is better than some native speakers. You are getting your message across. Your efforts to sort this out and go to the trouble to communicate is appreciated. Folks like you are what makes these boards great!
I'll second that, thanks for your time and effort to communicate your findings to the rest of us.
01-05-2020, 12:23 PM
