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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by as.thompson
IMO if you really want better handling you would keep the RFs as the stiffer sidewalls give a quicker turn in than the softer sidewalls.
I’m sorry, but it just makes me laugh when I hear something like this. Really? Concerned about a “quicker turn in” in your 4,731 pound, gigantic, 4-door, luxury saloon? Just where and how are you driving this vehicle?
Well I'm late into this sub but for what it's worth I would choose 19's over 20's all day on an S class. For me it's about the experience and not the wheel size. Even 18's would be better than 20's IMO. Especially with RF's, for those in urban areas expect to get some flat tires.
I’m sorry, but it just makes me laugh when I hear something like this. Really? Concerned about a “quicker turn in” in your 4,731 pound, gigantic, 4-door, luxury saloon? Just where and how are you driving this vehicle?
Streamliner, I am not saying that I was interested in racing my S coupe. I was simply commenting to those who have been saying they want to switch to non-RFs for "better handling."
Turn-in is simply a term used in racing to describe how quickly the tires respond to steering inputs at the point that you initiate your turn. Better handling isn't only just about the tire's contact patch and the composition of the rubber.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by as.thompson
Streamliner, I am not saying that I was interested in racing my S coupe. I was simply commenting to those who have been saying they want to switch to non-RFs for "better handling."
Turn-in is simply a term used in racing to describe how quickly the tires respond to steering inputs at the point that you initiate your turn. Better handling isn't only just about the tire's contact patch and the composition of the rubber.
Yes, I know about “turn in,” and also get a chuckle when folks talk about wanting to “improve the handling” of their S Class sedans. My “Plain Jane” S560, with 18” wheels, MBC and very comfy, all season, non-run flat tires probably has way more handling potential than the vast majority of W222 drivers—including myself—could ever even attempt to master. I mean, are guys playing “Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift” with their S Class sedans on public streets and highways? If they are, they ought to be locked up!
Yes, I know about “turn in,” and also get a chuckle when folks talk about wanting to “improve the handling” of their S Class sedans. My “Plain Jane” S560, with 18” wheels, MBC and very comfy, all season, non-run flat tires probably has way more handling potential than the vast majority of W222 drivers—including myself—could ever even attempt to master. I mean, are guys playing “Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift” with their S Class sedans on public streets and highways? If they are, they ought to be locked up!
Turn in and cornering ability were important to me on my race cars but not on my street cars. My S550 is all about comfort.
But having said that, I also don't mind the RFs on my S. My other car is an SL500 with Pilot Sports and the ride isn't better nor is it quieter than my S550 with RFs.
Initially, when I bought the car, I was concerned about not carrying a spare tire. But on reflection I realized that I had not used any spare tire for decades.
I've seen people say there was a night and day difference between the run flats and the Michelin's I have now. I think different people just feel different things. I feel very little difference between the old run flats that were worn and needed to be replaced, and the brand new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires.
Thats because of the tires you chose. Put a set of soft grand touring tires on there and the ride will be a night and day difference.
Its not as simple as just saying "run flats" or "non run flats". The Pilot Sport 4S are great Ultra High Performance tires, but the OEM Michelin Primacy RunFlats will be softer and quieter. They're grand touring tires. Now, replace them with a set of Michelin Primacy MXM4 non RunFlats like I have, or the Bridgestone QuietTracks everybody talks about and they will be much softer and quieter than those Primacy RFs or the Pilot Sport 4S.
Performance tires will be harder riding and louder than Grand Touring tires, runflat or not. 20s will be harder than 19s, 19s harder than 18s. Might 20s on non runflats ride better than 19s on runflats? Maybe, but I doubt it. Suspension tuning only gets you so far, when you have really low profile tires like you have on the 20s that come on the S Class, its gonna ride hard at times no matter what tires you run. The 19s are a good compromise, 45 series sidewalls are pretty good.
My car on 19s with non runflat grand touring Michelins rides great. Having driven every car in this segment over and over and over again, it rides as good as any car available, if not better. My LS460L with air suspension and superior Pirelli Cinturato P7 Plus II tires on 19s rode sligtly softer at low speeds, but the S is more solid and glides better at highway speeds. I think thats just those Pirellis being softer tires, they're not available in the S Class' 19" size. The staggered 19s limit tire options significantly.
Tire pressure matters a lot too. With higfher profile tires you can run lower pressures. I run 33 cold on the S, I ran 31 cold on the Lexus. Lexus placard said 33 cold, S is 35 cold.
NO CAR will have a cushy ride on 35 series 20s. Its not possible.
We all have various random experiences which lead us to varied opinions re tire size, HOWEVER
When I read the professionals opinion who test and compare cars for a living they all say how the vehicle they are testing rides rough due to the large tires size.
When you look at the comparative data for ride, find the ones that have a poor rating and check the wheel size, almost always big wheels.
The opinions from people, even professionals who take only one vehicle on a test on nice roads are meaningless for ride evaluation.
Professionals who test vehicles also deride run flats but not to the same extent as tire size.
And that's all I have to say about that.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by wilfie
We all have various random experiences which lead us to varied opinions re tire size, HOWEVER
When I read the professionals opinion who test and compare cars for a living they all say how the vehicle they are testing rides rough due to the large tires size.
When you look at the comparative data for ride, find the ones that have a poor rating and check the wheel size, almost always big wheels.
The opinions from people, even professionals who take only one vehicle on a test on nice roads are meaningless for ride evaluation.
Professionals who test vehicles also deride run flats but not to the same extent as tire size.
And that's all I have to say about that.
Well said. We hired a new Escalade to drive us to the airport about 18 months ago. What a rough, horrible ride on those huge wheels. I remember test driving a Maybach right after they came out. I drove to the dealership in my 2015 S550, 18” wheels, Non-RFT and MBC. I purposely drove around the dealership, finding a course with some bad road bumps, etc. I dove the Maybach, with 20” wheels and RFT around the exact same course and the ride was not nearly as good as in my S550. 20’s and RFT are the kiss of death to ride quality, IMO.
Well said. We hired a new Escalade to drive us to the airport about 18 months ago. What a rough, horrible ride on those huge wheels. I remember test driving a Maybach right after they came out. I drove to the dealership in my 2015 S550, 18” wheels, Non-RFT and MBC. I purposely drove around the dealership, finding a course with some bad road bumps, etc. I dove the Maybach, with 20” wheels and RFT around the exact same course and the ride was not nearly as good as in my S550. 20’s and RFT are the kiss of death to ride quality, IMO.
That's interesting. My previous W221 S600 came with 18" wheels as stock and the ABC suspension. I later used those wheels to winter duty and shod them with snow tires as I thought they were ugly as sin. I purchased some AMG knock-off staggered 20" wheels for it and used those as 3 season wheels/tires. The difference in ride quality was almost imperceptible, except the 20" tires were a little louder with a more open block tread. The ABC suspension made all the difference in the world.
I'm very surprised that the ABC/Magic Ride in the W222 S600 and Maybach version wouldn't mask the shorter sidewall as well as it did on my W221.
Not in the new RR Ghost, they are not. Try one, you'll be amazed.
The size of the wheels isnt what matters, what matters is the height of the sidewall. My Pacifica has 20s, and it rides just as well as the same van on 18s, but the 20s have 50 series sidewalls on them, 245/50 so the sidewall height is 4.8 inches tall, same as a W222 on 18s. (245/50 18, so 4.8 inch sidewall).
A RR Ghost on 20s is going to have a much thicker sidewall than a W222 on 20s.
I had 20's on my 2017 S550 with non run Flat Uniroyal Tiger Paw Tires and it rode better than my 2018 S560 with Run Flat Continental tires with 19 inch rims. Plus the 2018 has the Magic Body Control Suspension. I think it's mainly meant to smooth out the dips in the road and not so much the little breakups in pavement which I can feel a lot more than in my 2017. As soon as I wear out the Run Flat tires on my 2018 S560 I'll be going back to the Uniroyal non run flat Tigerpaw GTZ tires which I really liked and they are priced very well too.
Last edited by 2012 merc amg; 02-15-2021 at 10:46 PM.
You mean better than your 2018 on 19s and run flat Continentals, not non Run Flat Continentals.
You're right, thanks for the correction I just edited my post. Tired today, Played in a Tennis tournament this past weekend and have been tired all day, getting to old for this kinda thing, lol.
You're right, thanks for the correction I just edited my post. Tired today, Played in a Tennis tournament this past weekend and have been tired all day, getting to old for this kinda thing, lol.
I find it absolutely astonishing that so many owners of these magnificent, huge, luxury saloons, have to deal with ride quality issues. Have you all given EVERYONE associated with MB an earful on this subject? I hope so, because it shouldn’t be this way, ESPECIALLY, when the cure is a simple matter and should be addressed at the factory, not at tire shops.
My 2013 W221 S550 came with ABC, 18” wheels, a jack & spare under the trunk floor and non-RFT. It rode like a dream. When I got my 2015 S550, I ordered it with 18” wheels and MBC, but was shocked at the harsh & noisy ride of the RFT. So, I put on Bridgestone Serenity Plus non-RFT and the ride was even better than in my 2013.
I ordered my 2018 S560 with 18” wheels & MBC and had the dealer agree to swap out the RFT for Serenity Plus Tires upon delivery. This car now rides best of all, thanks to upgrades of the MBC. As in the 2015, I carry a W221 compact spare that sits, idiotically, ON TOP of the trunk floor, but gives me great peace of mind on out of town journeys.
I know, the bigger wheels look great, but these are not sports cars, so why some folks insist on losing the truly amazing ride comfort these cars are capable of, just to have a better wheel look, is way beyond me. 18” wheels, Serenity Plus Tires & MBC will give you what I feel is “THE” best riding sedan on the planet. AND, make sure to tell EVERY MB employee how unhappy you are with RFT and the lack of a jack & spare. It’s the only way things might change.
As it turns out, I like the way my “Plain Jane” sedan looks on her “Old Lady” wheels.
Oh, and I almost forgot: Bridgestone claims these Serenity Plus Tires can be good for up to 80,000 miles AND, they are comparatively CHEAP! Go figure.
2016 S550 sport, 2018 GLC300, M3, Zo7, 2021 Sierra Denali
The 18" rims on this car makes it look like a Hyundai. Better to look good than to feel good has been said. I put Michelins non run flats on the 20" rims and it rides beautifully and a night and day difference from the RF. Many gave their feedback and I am happy I kept the 20's as the car looks as it should with the sport package. The run flats are truly that bad. Going with 18's and non run flats is probably the best ride you can get if you dont care about the look, but 20's with michelins is very comfortable with the look and an in-between compromise but still very nice improved ride.
Thats why I sought out mine with 19s. Its a nice compromise between the better look of the 20s and the better ride of the 18s. I replaced my run flats too and she rides great.
Lexus LS 460 F-Sport (retired), 2020 Lexus GX460 Black, 2020 S560 Diamond White Metallic
Originally Posted by seamus2154
The 18" rims on this car makes it look like a Hyundai. Better to look good than to feel good has been said. I put Michelins non run flats on the 20" rims and it rides beautifully and a night and day difference from the RF. Many gave their feedback and I am happy I kept the 20's as the car looks as it should with the sport package. The run flats are truly that bad. Going with 18's and non run flats is probably the best ride you can get if you dont care about the look, but 20's with michelins is very comfortable with the look and an in-between compromise but still very nice improved ride.
2016 S550 sport, 2018 GLC300, M3, Zo7, 2021 Sierra Denali
Originally Posted by jekoda
Which Michelins did you go with?
I went with the Michelin PSS AS 3+. Much higher tread wear rating, very good in rain, and quiet. Next set will be the PSS 4S, lower wear rating but even nicer ride.
02-14-2021, 09:38 AM
