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Bentley took their Sedan and gorgeously modernized it from the 80s to current. One of the flying spurs were weird but they corrected it real quickly. I think that was the transition period between British and German ownership. But look how graceful these are. YOU KNOW THEY ARE BENTLEYS.
This new one is just a stunner! Couple it with up to date safety systems, the wonderful, traditional interior and it's a home run! If any of you want to have some fun, go to the "New Flying Spur" Configurator and build a few. The array of colors, leathers, wheels, etc. is just sensational. Car! Me want!!! [/QU
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I love the ghost too. But I omitted it since its no where near the price of the S Class. Figure a fully loaded S560 can be $140,000 and that's with EVERYTHING. Sure the S63 could bring that up to $176,000 (at the most) - and they cut the S65.
The Ghost STARTS at $350,000 + so It really never entered my mind to think it was even remotely in competition with the S Class. It's not even in competition with the Maybach S600.
But - It's one lovely machine - especially in Long Wheel Base version. Look at the interior shots - and imagine they took all that wood out - and made a one bar of wood - and a big screen and called it a day. Rolls would be done.
Above - someone wrote the most perfect thinking process - how MB forgot about the S Class customer - and rendered us meaningless.
What MB might find out is that there are a lot more 35s and up that can afford a $100,000 car than 25- 35. There are more of us in the over 35 bracket (I am 38). Not sure why they couldn't modernize the S Class without going to this extreme.
And yes - the big screen tesla style is going to be what it is - because now the C Class spy photo showed the same thing. So we are going to get ONE (1) strip of horizontal wood and two (2) big out of nowhere screens. That's such a departure.
I'm afraid MB misread the future market for their cars.
Millenials, in general, have no interest in owning cars, any cars, they look forward to using Uber and all future iterations of it instead.
S-Class market will get smaller but still significant, the buyers will continue to be those people who are a bit more conservative (in life, not politics necessarily), more traditional and independent, not followers and still appreciating craftsmanship and luxury over cheapness and plastickyness(new word) of iphone technology.
MB is going to lose a lot of these people, current ageing base and also young up and coming new generation who think and live in a similar mode.
It's my opinion only, I might be wrong but I know one thing for sure, my current S63 is going to be my last MB if that huge TV on dashboard comes to fruition.
Maybe I'm missing something but if the Ghost is not to be a vehicle to be compared against due to price differentials, the same can be said with the Flying Spur.
Maybe I'm missing something but if the Ghost is not to be a vehicle to be compared against due to price differentials, the same can be said with the Flying Spur.
What's left here?
The usual suspects? A8/7/LS?
Pretty much so. The RR and Bentley models have a slight market overlap in terms of willingness to spend that much more. I suspect most S buyers are probably priced out of those lines.
So yes, the usual suspects with BMW probably winning more share of those three. I know I will shop BMW harder than before based on what the new S is looking like.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by superangrypenguin
Maybe I'm missing something but if the Ghost is not to be a vehicle to be compared against due to price differentials, the same can be said with the Flying Spur.
What's left here?
The usual suspects? A8/7/LS?
Well, IMO, the Flying Spur will be in the $225K to $250K range and I am hoping that great leases will still be part of their program. A nice Ghost is at least $100K to $150K more and the image is not really something I want. The Bentley is a step up from an S Class, A8 or 7 Series. The RR is a whole different ballgame.
Well, IMO, the Flying Spur will be in the $225K to $250K range and I am hoping that great leases will still be part of their program. A nice Ghost is at least $100K to $150K more and the image is not really something I want. The Bentley is a step up from an S Class, A8 or 7 Series. The RR is a whole different ballgame.
I think the Flying Spur V8 will be less than the $225 to $250 range but we shall see.
The Mercedes S63 is $175k. If the customer has to go from $175 to $215 or so - I think thats doable and thus I totally agree.
RR entry Level is another $150 on top of the $215k Bentley V8.
Totally different category. The other guys car's a yacht lol
Porsche seems to going the way of integrating the screens whereas MB is floating their screens and letting them dominate the dash. Will have to wait to see on the 223.
Porsche Taycan is going to have even more screens...there's one in front of the passenger seat...
Although I truly dislike all these screens and going digital instead of analog (still believe the latter is safer and easier to use when driving), the Taycan's execution of it is much more palatable and way more attractive then what MB is proposing.
It looks like they are just apeing Tesla's idea being too lazy to come up with their own.
If analog disappears completely (matter of time), I think I could live with something like the Porsche has (or A8 too).
I think the Flying Spur V8 will be less than the $225 to $250 range but we shall see.
The Mercedes S63 is $175k. If the customer has to go from $175 to $215 or so - I think thats doable and thus I totally agree.
RR entry Level is another $150 on top of the $215k Bentley V8.
Totally different category. The other guys car's a yacht lol
There is also a Flying Spur Hybrid coming and will be priced at $175k-$180k base.
One thing, Bentleys are entirely possible to order and use in base form (no options) as they have basically everything you need anyway, MB is a bit more difficult to live with (base) and Porsche of course would be impossible (they are the absolute masters in forcing customers to order a lot of options as the base car would be horrible with it's lack of some comfort features that are standard in lesser cars).
New Bentley is going to be a very closely priced alternative to S63, Maybach S560/S650 and whatever replacement for S65 is (Flying Spur Speed with 650HP).
There is also a Flying Spur Hybrid coming and will be priced at $175k-$180k base.
One thing, Bentleys are entirely possible to order and use in base form (no options) as they have basically everything you need anyway, MB is a bit more difficult to live with (base) and Porsche of course would be impossible (they are the absolute masters in forcing customers to order a lot of options as the base car would be horrible with it's lack of some comfort features that are standard in lesser cars).
New Bentley is going to be a very closely priced alternative to S63, Maybach S560/S650 and whatever replacement for S65 is (Flying Spur Speed with 650HP).
Porsche literally OWNS their customers....without Lube.
A sunroof is not standard. A decent radio is not standard. Automatic Transmission is not standard (on the 991). Any color but White Red and Yellow are not standard. ALL safety systems (blind spot monitor, etc) are not standard.
This - on a $110,000 base Carrera 4S. My base was $110,000 and honestly - with only SOME options - I got it to $140,000 and that's WITHOUT sport exhaust. You can easily tack on $50,000 in options - that's literally half the cars value already. If you want my opinion - that's a bit ****ed up.
But I enjoy the car and wouldn't change it - just feel a bit raped that I had to pay $3000+ because I didn't want manual transmission. They're the only car company that charges you for that.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Chucky3000
Porsche literally OWNS their customers....without Lube.
A sunroof is not standard. A decent radio is not standard. Automatic Transmission is not standard (on the 991). Any color but White Red and Yellow are not standard. ALL safety systems (blind spot monitor, etc) are not standard.
This - on a $110,000 base Carrera 4S. My base was $110,000 and honestly - with only SOME options - I got it to $140,000 and that's WITHOUT sport exhaust. You can easily tack on $50,000 in options - that's literally half the cars value already. If you want my opinion - that's a bit ****ed up.
But I enjoy the car and wouldn't change it - just feel a bit raped that I had to pay $3000+ because I didn't want manual transmission. They're the only car company that charges you for that.
I recently took delivery of a new 2019 SL450 that I ordered. It is my 6th new SL. Just before placing the order, I vacillated over a new Carrera S Cabriolet instead, which would have been my 3rd new 911. I loved the color options, the interiors, the availability of a stick shift, the option of carbon ceramic brakes, and the ability to configure the car in so many ways. My Carrera S Cab would have been around $175K and I was unable to find a dealer willing to discount the car more than about 6%, which I thought was just nuts, especially since it would have still been the outgoing 2019. So, at the end of the day, I could not resist the SL with its relatively inexpensive options, superior comfort and the ability to obtain a much bigger discount. Now that I have this amazing new SL, I know I made the right choice for me, as it is SO comfortable, but I must hand it to Porsche: They have managed to keep a more “exclusive” aura about their cars than MB has and in some ways, have made their cars into “fashion accessories” for the rich. They drive nicely, too! The profits in Stuttgart must be out of this world!
Although you don't get nearly the customizable options that Porsche offers, MB does make it easier. Add a couple packages and done. Car is essentially loaded up. That has without a doubt been a selling point for me. On the flip side the limits in choices have also hurt MB whereas the wide array has helped Porsche.
Porsche literally OWNS their customers....without Lube.
A sunroof is not standard. A decent radio is not standard. Automatic Transmission is not standard (on the 991). Any color but White Red and Yellow are not standard. ALL safety systems (blind spot monitor, etc) are not standard.
This - on a $110,000 base Carrera 4S. My base was $110,000 and honestly - with only SOME options - I got it to $140,000 and that's WITHOUT sport exhaust. You can easily tack on $50,000 in options - that's literally half the cars value already. If you want my opinion - that's a bit ****ed up.
But I enjoy the car and wouldn't change it - just feel a bit raped that I had to pay $3000+ because I didn't want manual transmission. They're the only car company that charges you for that.
That's a nice shot and a good background You must be a designer
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by places
Although you don't get nearly the customizable options that Porsche offers, MB does make it easier. Add a couple packages and done. Car is essentially loaded up. That has without a doubt been a selling point for me. On the flip side the limits in choices have also hurt MB whereas the wide array has helped Porsche.
Packages are nice—sometimes. I remember thinking about a little GLK SUV, just for Home Depot type errands. If I wanted the garage door opener—something that should standard on EVERY MB—I was forced to take a package that included their #$&@#$&$# Panorama Glass Roof! Can you even believe that??? The way it should be on high-line vehicles, is to offer packages—for those who like them—but to also offer all options a la carte, for those who wish to SPECIAL ORDER a vehicle just the way they want it. Porsche actually does offer several option packages, but also offers all options in their packages, as available to order separately. THAT is real luxury.
Although you don't get nearly the customizable options that Porsche offers, MB does make it easier. Add a couple packages and done. Car is essentially loaded up. That has without a doubt been a selling point for me. On the flip side the limits in choices have also hurt MB whereas the wide array has helped Porsche.
4 Mercs and 2 Pcars are the extent of my luxury car ownership......I'm kind of glad I bought my Pcars used because the options are staggering, as you mentioned in the Mercs it's pretty simple.....leaving one wanting more than Benz offers which can be frustrating at that price point.
2020 S63 Coupe, 2006 Hummer H1 Alpha, 2018 McLaren 720S, 2022 Porsche 911 TurboS, 2022 Tesla Model X
Originally Posted by Chucky3000
Porsche literally OWNS their customers....without Lube.
A sunroof is not standard. A decent radio is not standard. Automatic Transmission is not standard (on the 991). Any color but White Red and Yellow are not standard. ALL safety systems (blind spot monitor, etc) are not standard.
This - on a $110,000 base Carrera 4S. My base was $110,000 and honestly - with only SOME options - I got it to $140,000 and that's WITHOUT sport exhaust. You can easily tack on $50,000 in options - that's literally half the cars value already. If you want my opinion - that's a bit ****ed up.
But I enjoy the car and wouldn't change it - just feel a bit raped that I had to pay $3000+ because I didn't want manual transmission. They're the only car company that charges you for that.
Truth that... I actually looked at a 992 C4S as a replacement for my S63. Optioned with all the stuff I wanted it was like $175k
I'll be the first to admit I'm a sucker for options. Usually MSRP + 20% gets me a very nicely equipped car, whether it's a Mercedes or McLaren. Porsche was MSRP + 50% !
I've always found low mileage cars that are close to the spec I'd like if ordered new. Purchased a (MY2014) 50th Anniversary at a year old...list $143,xxx and purchased for $110,000. Drove it for 1.5 years and sold it for $108,000. Next up was a MY15 991.1 GTS Cab..list $ 144,xxx, and again was approx. 1 year old and snagged it for $ 112,000. Sold it 2 years later for $100k. I feel a big part of the reason these 991.1's held there value so well was that they were the last of the NA cars. IIRC most Carrera's went turbo in 2016 or 2017 and many still wanted that NA exhaust sound. A similar scenario may be happening with the release of the W223. Seems many on this forum including myself aren’t crazy over the next “S” in line. We are really enjoying our recent “S” purchase and plan on being here for awhile. T
08-27-2019, 12:33 PM
[/QU
The profits in Stuttgart must be out of this world!
