superangrypenguin

It is well known and has been discussed SEVERAL times on this VERY board about the ride in the S class being enhanced by getting rid of RFTs and potentially going to 18". Sure, people have not labelled the ride as "fidgety", but come on. Any reasonable person knows why RFTs have been discussed time and time and time again and what people do to mitigate the effects of having a tire that has close to 0 flex.

Your position is not even reasonable on this matter. If you want to infer that it's considered 'poor riding', then that's on you, not me. I never once used those words and I'm tired of you putting words in my mouth.

If the position on this board was that the RFTs had no effect to the velvety smoothness of this car, then so be it, but the fact that it's been a sticking point (a negative one by many) and discussed since the inception of the 222 then that should alone tell you something.

This is not unique to the W222, and is a topic brought up on several car boards for any vehicle that has these tires. You just cannot defy the rules of physics. Carmakers try though.

The best part about this whole conversation (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), you haven't driven the 2019/2020 A8 and yet your opinion seems to firm that the S class has a certain ride. This is the same with all of the car reviewers as well that called the S class's ride as fidgety. NONE of them said mentioned anything bad at ALL about the S class's ride until they reviewed the A8.

So how are you forming your opinion before even driving the A8?

emilner

Agreed. The E class really is a good car to drive but you are right that by the time you option it you are in S class territory. My business partner is leasing a new E53 and her payment is $1350 a month. I’m just shaking my head. But she prefers the more nimble ride and smaller car vs the S. So it really comes down to what priorities you have.

Wolfman

In all fairness, you have brought things up that are clearly important to you and nobody else cares about. Like the non-centered steering wheel. The S-Class is not known as a fidgety ride, it has always been considered the benchmark in ride quality. Very much unlike every Audi A8 review. This is until the latest iteration where Audi completely revised their suspension.
The only model i know that has been referred to as fidgety was the G11/G12 BMW 7 series with the rear wheel steering. Some will call it fidgety and nervous on the Autobahn, yet others call it agile and nimble.

People have vastly different personal preferences in cars, options and settings, so referring to several other forum members, etc. is pretty much meaningless. Point in case, we always drove our S-Class in Sport mode on 20" conventional tires and considered it an extremely smooth ride. Streamliner would find other words for the same config/settings
The OP should drive all cars and pick the car he likes the best. Simple as that...

MTrauman

Katie is correct--the current Maybach S560 is simply an extended version of the S560.

Your facts appear to be inaccurate based on the factory people I have spoken to in Germany when I was at the Center of Excellence (Sindelfingen Germany) looking though all the special order interior and exterior components of the Maybach and the Long Wheel Base (only one offered in the US since I noticed you are in Canada and Canada also has a Short version) S Class. My last two cars ('16 S550 4matic and '19 S63) have every component on them that you can get on the Maybach version including the rear tray tables. Per Mercedes Benz themselves they have explained that as long as your car is spec'd with code 596 (std in the US) Heat insulating + Infrared reflecting glass all around the db sound in all S class cars should be about the same as the manufacturing components are the same (tires are different and could contribute to different interior DB levels). Maybe Canada is different but MB specs the cars to have the same sound material and glass material. Based on my knowledge of Maybach/Std Long Wheel base S Class/AMG S Class the only real difference is the Maybach length if one specs the cars like I have spec' my S550 and S63. I suppose the people at the plant in Germany could have given me bad information but I don't think so since over my over 25 years of buying S Class cars I have found the people at the Center of Excellence (which was initially built to deliver only Maybach cars at the factory) to be the most knowldege MB representatives I have come across.

Additionally, Car and Driver stated (Jared Gall 2/20/2017) the decibels on the 2017 Maybach S550 4matic was 70 dbs under full throttle and 63 dbs at full cruise. Car and Driver (Dave Vandererp 6/13/19) also stated the Maybach was 65 dbs at 70 mph cruise while the S450 was 66 dbs at 70 mph. Difference in tires could have an impact on the one db difference.

Wolfman

At the introduction of the W222 Maybach version in 2014 there were indeed many references of the Maybach being the quietest car due to the use of different seals and additional sound insulation over the regular S-class. So I wouldn't just dismiss this. How effective they are is a different question...

Just picked one from 2014 that I found. I saw more of this in Germany where it matters more due to high speed driving...
The Mercedes-Maybach S-Class promises to be the “quietest car in the world” thanks to special seals optimizing the noise insulation along with the installation of additional sound deadening material.

superangrypenguin

The discussions that the Maybach utilizes different seals and has additional noise deadening materials have been discussed several times, but that said, I have pulled the relevant tests. (attached). Also, let's be fair. The Maybach can be twice as expensive as a regular S class. Surely owners are not just throwing random money into the fireplace.

Couple of things.

1) I did not find a S560 vs Maybach S560 test, so keep in mind this is a V6 vs Maybach comparison, but at idle, that would mean nothing anyways, same as at 70CR.
2) ___/____ makes sense to me; however, the number on the far right is weird. It's clearly not an average. Maybe it was the 'max' observed? I don't know.

Google has a ton of references here, but I'll post the search terms I used, and one of the articles:

https://www.google.com/search?safe=o...4dUDCAo&uact=5

https://www.motor1.com/news/51260/me...-in-guangzhou/

"Inside the luxurious cabin, the Mercedes-Maybach S-Class features two executive rear seats with individually adjustable backrests and cushions. It has gained the "quietest car in the world" status thanks to the use of more sound-deadening material and special seals optimizing noise insulation."

No disagreements on my part. I shared my opinion and the opinions shared by other car reviewers, and then words were put into my mouth and my opinions declared 'wrong' simply because someone disagreed. The member in question could have just said "I disagree" (with me and the car reviewers), but instead chose to take things down a different avenue. All of this without having driven the latest iteration of the A8, which to me, just screams "I love my baby and it'll never be ugly", which is fine. I get that people do this on car forums.

absent

I may not be as **** about the ride quality as others here, what these cars come with is plenty comfortable for me, be it S, A8 or 7( there is no other brand/car qualifying for luxury moniker, lots of wannabes only from Asian countries).
Loved my S8 Plus, would strongly consider A8 W12 but the damn car comes here only with the piddly 3.0 liter and mediocre performance when compared to S560.
I was 50/50 between S63 and M760, the latter was even comfier and smoother but went for the Benz only because of availability of mods the BMW did not have.
.....and then I put Winter RFTs on it.
......the ride is fine, thank you very much.
.......not fidgety in my humble opinion ( FIAT rally team 1979-1981, Ferrari Challenge 2007,8,9)

Streamliner

If that is the case, they WHY don’t they put those same seals and insulation in the standard W222? If it is a matter of cost, they should offer an “Acoustic” package as they used to do with the E Class. They shouldn’t penalize S Class buyers, simply because many of us would find an extended wheelbase car to be impractical, especially when all of the extension is in rear seat legroom, in an area that only my grandchildren occupy every now and then.

Wolfman

It's normal to have a good/better/best model. Likewise a Maybach buyer will ask why their car costs more than a lowly S-Class if all is the same. For that reason differentiators are created. First it was just the length and extra space/fluff for chauffeured passengers and then with the facelift a more visual difference in two-tone paint and unique grill, along with the usual chrome ornamentation. If they get it a bit more quiet for extra money, so be it...

If you create an acoustic package on the S, people will complain that it wasn't included in the flagship model for free...

Minh Do

Off topic but I was wondering how the AC unit is on the S class? My 2018 E300 is woefully inadequate in the Texas heat. It seems German manufacturers don't equip their vehicles with powerful ac systems like the Japanese or American.

C280 Sport

What competition? With the exception of a Bentley or RR buying a S560 Sedan is the top of the mark in all aspects. After the S Class I would say the 7 Series comes next. Then the Audi A8. After that the Lexus and Hyundai are all in the same league far below. S Class combines; build quality, heritage, performance, engineering, class, prestige, attention to detail, ride quality, technology, comfort, innovation and ability to make it the way you want.

superangrypenguin

Curious if you've been in the latest iteration of the 7 series? I've gotten into it, and drove it, and man, this is before even seriously whittling down the list and the 7 got the boot so quickly that it didn't even make the first cut.

Why? Materials used and quality of everything is really subpar. I'm not kidding or even stretching how I feel about this, but I'd rather have a G90 than a 7 series because IMHO the 7 seems like the bean counters have put it through the ringer.

emilner

I have not had any issues with humid NY heat. It's nothing like Texas but even mid 90's-100 I was fine. The vented seats are nowhere as good as the Caddy and Lincoln versions but they help.

MacMP

And, the S-Class engine plus tranny are overbuilt while the BMW and Audi are under built. As in, if you try tune an S you can get a lot more without breaking something. On the BMW (Buy More Warranty), the intervals can’t handle much over stock. Audi is the same.

Streamliner

Your statement is contradictory. If the S is the “flagship,” shouldn’t it be the best? All W222 models should share the same quality and refinement. If they want to have everything standard on the Maybach and some items optional on other models, that’s fine, but excluding something like better door seals and insulation from a $150K S560 just doesn’t sit right with me.

emilner

That is completely not true. I know of many people, myself included, who have tuned BMW's and Audi's and run them for years and years without any issue. It is almost unheard of to hear someone blew an engine these days. Plus BMW and Audi substantially underrate their engines power output...

MBNUT1

Well all I know is that my 98 A4 drivetrain went 220k miles which included two weekend track sessions with the Porsche club at mid-ohio and my teenage son's use (which when I mention it to him he tells me I wouldn't want to know what he put that car through) without issue. My completely babied W212 4matic has had to have the transfer case and the front differential replaced in 120K miles.

Wolfman

It isn't contradictory at all. Why can't there be a Good/better/Best in the flagship model?
In addition, AMG as well as Maybach are different product lines apart from the regular S. These brands are differentiated from the regular Mercedes brand in features and function and both are a step up from the S-Class. There is literally no reason in my mind why all W222 should share the same quality and refinement as you put it.
Even within the Mercedes W222 line-up, there is a significant difference in refinement. If you try a bare bone short wheel base S350 Diesel in Europe, you will know what I mean. At least they all have the same multi-beam LED headlights since the facelift but a lot is excluded by default, even the acoustic glass.

bkdc

There is does philosophy difference. I HATE the BMW executive decision to prioritize fuel efficiency over long term reliability. The engines run at near redline temperatures of 240 to 250 degrees (paradoxically runs hotter on a long highway cruise than city driving) leading to premature failure of gaskets and cooling system parts. This really peeves me. In order to milk tax credits for efficiency, BMW is building a less reliable engine. And I’m not talking about the ability to tune the engine. The stock engine is less reliable. Lots of headache and gasket replacements. Modern BMW engines are headaches. And they are headaches to service as well. The engine bay layout is a pure headache for any DIY weekend mechanics. I like my Mercedes engine happily running at 190 degrees. The oil is not smoking if I remove the oil cap on a hot engine. Remove the oil cap on a hot BMW engine and you have smoking oil. There is a reason you will not find an oil dipstick on a modern BMW.

i know BMW enthusiasts who only use Redline 5w-30 oil (not BMW LL approved but superior to all LL approved oils) as it reliably results in engine temperatures that are 10 to 15 degrees lower.

Streamliner

Well, I guess we differ in our definition of the term “flagship,” as used here. The Maybach is the flagship of the MB sedan line up, and the other S Class models are runner ups, which is disappointing. Oh well.

MBNUT1

In a sense I feel the same way with respect to the fact that Mercedes refuses to import the SWB S Classes.

Wolfman

Agreed. Probably boils down to my loose or incorrect use the term flagship as the S-class sedan isn’t the flagship (top of the line model) anyway. That goes to S-class coupe/cab while still in production, followed by the G-Wagon for Mercedes, the GTR-Pro followed by the GT63s for the AMG and the Pullmann for Maybach.

MTrauman

For what is is worth MBUSA defines the “flagship” in their press releases as the S Class. See below.

Wolfman

Good info! I stated that I may not use the term flagship correctly even though Mercedes uses the general term S-Class which included the line-up (sedan, coupe, cab).

This whole conversation is clearly not meant to diss the S-Class, which I love and had countless models over the past 30+ years. But I have never expected a $95k S-Class to have all the same refinements of a $230k S-Class.

bkdc

I do expect a loaded 150k sticker S560 to be every good as a Maybach except for the rear passenger room and amenities.