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We've had sporadic discussions about this in other threads, figured I would start a thread for my specific upgrade project. A little background, my previous car was a 2017 Lexus LS460L with the Mark Levinson audio. The standard Burmester audio in my new S Class is nowhere near as impressive as that system with music sounding thinner, with no richness or depth or bass. As we know the standard Burmester system lacks a dedicated subwoofer and instead has frontbass mid level drivers under the dash.
I have read all of the posts on the forum about upgrades, a special thank you to @superpop for his experience and expertise. I met with a well respected local audio shop today. Basically what were going to start with is a subwoofer and see how I feel about it then before expanding into other upgrades. What he recommended is a JL Audio enclosed all in one 12' subwoofer. This subwoofer INCLUDES the amp, so there would not be a separate amp as in superpop's setup. I mentioned what he had done, and the manager of the shop said thats definitely a route we could go but he felt the all in one subwoofer would fit my needs fine. Total cost installed is just under $1,200.
The unit recommended is the JL Audio ACP112LG-TW1 Micro Sub with single 12.
The unit fits in the trunk great, looks like it was made to slide up against the back of the trunk.
His suggestion was to start with that, and then add to the system as I feel its necessary. He seemed to feel replacing the speakers with better speakers and an amp was a better bang for the buck than replacing just the Burmester amp with all of the accoutrements necessary to accomplish that. I read off superpop's setup and his response was that's excellent, but he nailed the price at $6-7k and said he felt that would likely be overkill for what I want out of the system, which is likely accurate. He had an opportunity to sell me several thousand dollars more stuff and didn't so I'm inclined to listen to him and see how it turns out.
Thoughts? I'm scheduled to have it done Feb 18th so I have time to make changes.
Looks good, I looked at this option but was concerned if it would be enough of an upgrade. Plus I wanted something that took up minimal truckspace. Here is a pic of my box install. If you go this route make sure they wire it with a disconnect of some kind so you can remove it when needed.
The 3D system has a bunch more speakers, which I'm sure are all of much better quality than all of the stock Burmeister speakers. That system as a $7k option must sound killer to be worth that much more than the stock audio. I know the Bang & Olufsen I had in my GL550 sounded amazing with everything except sat and local radio, but it had a little less power and less speakers than the Burmeister 3D.
I'll be interested to see how your setup with additional amps and the sub make the stock speakers sound. And I wonder at what level the stock speakers will start to distort with a quality amp.
Speakers actually do better with more power, distortion kills speakers, that and over driving them, Both happen when the amp is just enough to drive the speakers, which is the case with the stock system. The one benefit of aftermarket is that you can take it with you. Mine is completely reversible and I can just move it to my next car. The stock speakers in my car came to life with a really good amp and mixer.
Thats my concern too, will it be enough of an upgrade? I too would really rather do an aftermarket amp vs replacing speakers, especially because the car is a lease and I want to be able to take what I buy easily with me, sell it to someone here, etc. He seemed to be concerned that a replacement amp would damage the OEM speakers, he also said you need a much more expensive amp (such as you have) to get enough channels to run the OEM speakers where aftermarket speakers you could get away with an amp with fewer channels, etc.
The amp you have powering your sub is 1,000 watts right? The built in amp here is 400. Your install looks great, this box is like 9 inches deep, so it really doesn't take up much of the trunk...the space left over will be just fine for me.
My thought on the speakers, Im sure the speakers in the OEM Mark Levinson in my Lexus were nothing special either...and I was 100% happy with that system, so I would think I can make this work with the stock speakers.
You might want to go with something like this. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_136933...er-reviews-tab Would take up less space when put in the backside of the trunk and I always kinda liked the idea of two smaller subs, you probably can get a little bit tighter bass with one of these.
I am really looking forward to this. I was going to go with a JL 8" or 10" in an enclosure, Lci2 line out converter and a quality mono block amp. I carry luggage quite a bit and I dont want to give up much space. You are right about the stock system. I have had A8 with Bose, Volvo with B&W and Mercedes really dropped the ball on their base system, frankly, it sucks! I do question how the bass will get upfront without a passthrough. I own my car, no lease, I dont mind cutting a tidy hole in the back of the storage cubby at rear seat. I NEVER would have anyone in the middle "seat" in the rear.
You might want to go with something like this. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_136933...er-reviews-tab Would take up less space when put in the backside of the trunk and I always kinda liked the idea of two smaller subs, you probably can get a little bit tighter bass with one of these.
I will inquire about that, I remember seeing it in their shop. Thats ported on both sides too which is appealing. I wonder if it would be too long...
Speakers actually do better with more power, distortion kills speakers, that and over driving them, Both happen when the amp is just enough to drive the speakers, which is the case with the stock system. The one benefit of aftermarket is that you can take it with you. Mine is completely reversible and I can just move it to my next car. The stock speakers in my car came to life with a really good amp and mixer.
So doing more reading Im a little concerned that this approach they're proposing doesn't involve a line level converter or any timing adjustments or anything like that. What are your thoughts on that?
I was going to ask where they planned on taking the signal from as I don't think it was mentioned in the original post. I'd think you'd have to have a line level converter to get the best sound but I think some of these units have high level inputs where they take the input off a direct speaker input. That is probably not a good way to do it. You'd be better off with a low level input I'd think.
The shop will probably grab the speaker level signal from one of the two factory subs. That is the only way to get signal from the factory system as the pre-amp signal is fiber optic and you need a converter for this. Time alignment should be OK as it is a parallel signal. If you can do a passthrough that will help a lot as well as these cars are very well insulated.
18 AMG GTC and 22 F150 Limited. Past owner 16 Maybach, 17 Brabus Smartcar, 06 Ford E150, and 22 G70
Love the creativity. I have not listened to the base system but if it lacks bass you certainly picked a nice way to fix that. I remember on my 3D system car I was replacing the cabin air filters. This required me to pull back the passenger footwell carpet. To my surprise there was actually a speaker in the firewall. Go figure.
The shop will probably grab the speaker level signal from one of the two factory subs. That is the only way to get signal from the factory system as the pre-amp signal is fiber optic and you need a converter for this. Time alignment should be OK as it is a parallel signal. If you can do a passthrough that will help a lot as well as these cars are very well insulated.
Makes sense. I will ask him about a passthrough. My guess is his response will be lets see how it sounds without one and we can add one if need be, which makes sense. I do appreciate his approach doing it incrementally. Like I said I walked in there ready to spend $3k and he talked me down from that.
Love the creativity. I have not listened to the base system but if it lacks bass you certainly picked a nice way to fix that. I remember on my 3D system car I was replacing the cabin air filters. This required me to pull back the passenger footwell carpet. To my surprise there was actually a speaker in the firewall. Go figure.
I was tinkering with the standard Burmeister in my car and I came up with settings that seem to be acceptable for now. Surround turned on, EQ set to +3 treble, +2 mids, and +8 bass with the balance set to +1. This gives a fairly decent full sound with tight bass that doesn't overwhelm like the ridiculous booming you hear in many hoopties. I also figured out that these settings have to be set up for all sources individually, such as BT streamed, Sat, and HD FM radio. Streaming BT audio sounds the best by far, followed by CDs, then Sat radio, then HD FM. The B&O in my GL550 followed that same pattern of quality as the least compressed signals give the best sound.
Just one comment, BT Audio is way more compressed than CD sound. What I listen to is as uncompressed as you can get which is lossless audio over USB. They do seem to use some trickery that makes BT streaming sound warmer.
Your settings are similar to mine. Mine is +6 treble, -2 mids and +10 bass with balance at 0. Surround on, sound leveling off (this makes a big difference). I played around with +1 fader and went back to 0. I also have it sounding decent but it still needs low end and depth which the sub should provide. As was also described to me the sub will let me back off on the bass in the equalizer which will keep the OEM system from straining.
Another thing which is very real is you are becoming used to the Burmester and forgetting how great your other audio systems sounded lol.
Just one comment, BT Audio is way more compressed than CD sound. What I listen to is as uncompressed as you can get which is lossless audio over USB. They do seem to use some trickery that makes BT streaming sound warmer.
Your settings are similar to mine. Mine is +6 treble, -2 mids and +10 bass with balance at 0. Surround on, sound leveling off (this makes a big difference). I played around with +1 fader and went back to 0. I also have it sounding decent but it still needs low end and depth which the sub should provide. As was also described to me the sub will let me back off on the bass in the equalizer which will keep the OEM system from straining.
Another thing which is very real is you are becoming used to the Burmester and forgetting how great your other audio systems sounded lol.
You may be somewhat correct about getting used to it. But I've only put 900 miles on the car since purchase, so I'm not really "that used to it" yet.
I'm looking forward to hearing about your results with the amp and sub.
Steve, I might approach it kinda differently. To me one of the best parts of a good sound system is the clarity of the mids and highs. I was driving along last night with my 3D listening to some remastered Crosby Stills and Nash and just their voices and the dings of the chimes and symbols sounded so very awesome. I get that some in my Std system in my 2019 E class wagon but nothing like that and I think it's mainly in the signal processing and the amp of the 3D system, I wouldn't say the Std. Burmeister system in my wagon is horrible but just that the 3D system in my S560 is exceptional. To get to this the route I would take would be a JL Audio Fix 86 signal processor which is listed as $419.00 on Crutchfield and a 6 channel amp something like this JL audio .https://www.crutchfield.com/S-vwbnYh...RoCOkEQAvD_BwE Thats only a little over $1000.00 in parts and I'd think labor should be under $500.00 to install this stuff. I'd think you could put both these things under the rear seat drivers side and if you do want even more bass put the sub in the trunk and maybe bridge 2 of the 6 channels of output to go to that. That way you still have 4 channels to power all the other speakers. I dunno maybe labor would approach more towards 1000 bucks but even then 1000 labor plus 1000 Fix 86 plus amp and 800 subwoofer would still keep you under $3000 less than half the 3D audio option and it might sound as good or better https://www.jlaudio.com/products/fix...m-tuning-98103
Last edited by 2012 merc amg; 01-24-2021 at 01:17 PM.
Although because of the fiber optic cables on our mercedes might be better off with the Zen M https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT871/zen-m.html Not a real lot more expensive just for the signal processor.
Standard Burmester is 9 channels, 2 subs, 6 mids/tweets and 1 center channel. You need a min of 8 channels of amplification to get away from the factory amp. I went with the NAVTV Zen box and it works great. Does not mess with BT Phone Audio or Nav Audio and offers Toslink and RCA outputs as well. I wanted something that was reversible, cut no wires, and was flexible enough to follow me to my next car. When I remove all of the crap I installed when I sell my car, I can sell the NAVTV box and recoup most of my money for it. The rest I can use again.
Although because of the fiber optic cables on our mercedes might be better off with the Zen M https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT871/zen-m.html Not a real lot more expensive just for the signal processor.
So, one would use this signal processor to convert the BUS to analog. Would you then feed those in to an equalizer and then into amps?? Sounds complicated. Im waiting to see what the subwoofer and amp install accomplishes. And then there are the Match speakers that replace the two factory 8" subs, would they increase sound quality SQ? I notice they are rated at 100w each. What about the Match upgrade, a LOC and then an amp to drive them? ALL of that could be hidden under the trunk lining behind rear seat.
01-22-2021, 05:39 PM
