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I was reading through all of the threads here about upgrading the BM sytem. And was supprised that after actually visiting some experts that the most spoke of removing the complete BM system (incl the amp) and rewiring the loom. Costing $$$$
Almost every upgrade kits i see advertised were for the standart , non-BM, system and they told me that is way easier than upgrading the BM system.
Ive only found 1 that had a sollution wich had a piggyback for the amp ( of the brand Match), so keeping the amp and its wiring.
Now, wich of you dicided for this latter route and wich of you dicided for just replacing all the speakers only? Any other experiences are welcome too cause this system sucks imo and got to go asap. Thanks.
The amplification and subwoofer are the weak spots with this car. I ended up adding two new amps and a subwoofer in a sealed enclosure. I did this for several reason, primarily though because it is completely reversible. I also invested in high end amps with DSP so that I can remove them when I sell my car and install them in the next one. For the Signal I utilized a NAVTV box to grab the fiber optic signal from the head unit and convert it into a flat clean signal with RCA and Toslink outputs. Ended up using the RCA outputs to drive my amps so I could maintain fader control. For the Mid and High amp I chose a JL Audio Vxi 800/8 8 channel 800W amp to drive 8 of the 9 channels in the car. I left the front center channel on the factory BM amp to maintain separate chimes and BT phone audio. For the Sub I used a JL Audio Vxi 1000/1 1000 watt single channel amp. For the Sub I used a JL Audio WA7 10" sub driver in a 1.5CF sealed enclosure. I also installed a BT Module on the amps and remote control knob for the Sub in my console. The BT module allows me to tune the amps on the fly with my Ipad. The factory speakers are actually not bad in this car if you cross them over properly. The two front 8" subs are great mid bass drivers and the rest of the speakers sound surprisingly good. My car has a 250A alternator so these cars can handle the draw of the amps I am using without any voltage issues. As someone who used to compete in car audio SPL and Install contests back in the day I have to say that this system is probably one of the best sounding systems I have ever heard. It is louder than I could ever stand and crystal clear all the way up. I am not sure how JL does it with these small amps but they run strong and cool for hours. I think I have around 7K into mine but most of it I can take with me from car to car.
@superpop is there any writeup about this project? I'm particularly interested in wiring loom between OE amp and speakers -> can you share some more details on the solution you used to hijack the fiber audio signal and convert it to rca, and how did you sort out errors after disconnecting OE speakers (I'm guessing you had to keep it running in order to keep the central speaker work with BT phone audio?)
Im not planning to do anything myself. I dont see me pulling connectors and mounting things i dont understand. I need a company who knows the car and the sollution. Who's done it before with a BM system and sais: piece of cake, come on over. Who has all the tools and knowledge, i just want to enjoy the results. So after visiting/calling/emailing some of those carhifi installationcompany's (IC) for their thoughts, i have 5 options. Ofcourse there are douzens of sollutions and 1 of the best is yours, but i cant have a sub in my trunk. I need all the space. Ditched even the 3D sub wich takes only the left side, but still is hard needed capacity. Its a taxi. So took your info (and read some of your many threads) all but that to some IC and they said more or less (order of ascending says nothing):
1. change the speakers
2. change the amp
3. change the speakers ánd change the original amp
4. remove everething, update the software of the car so it knows everething is gone, and "start from scratch" and custom fit a subwoofer in the trunk
5. upgrade to original 3d
First i contacted MBenz.nl how much an upgrade to the original 3D would be, he is the guy to go to for the most elegant sollution and has a grat finesse but even he thought €15000-€20000 is a bit on the high side... (thats headliner, panels, cables all OEM)
Just 4 doorpanels then, so i can mount some more speakers: €6000. ok...there goes #5
I've written some IC's for a quote and it supprised me how few did it before, knew or at least didnt write-off Match ánd would just listen to me. Now, no4 is something drastic im not planning to do.
Stays 1. 2. and 3. Speaking to them most advised me indeed to start with upgrading the amp, and upgrade the speakers later if i wasnt satisfied. Some of them suggested to change the speakers first, but they were also the ones with whom i had the lesser....confidence.
I want to keep the car original as possible and want to control the music through the original menu. BT-streaming and AA functions must be kept. Some came with the following Match kit sollution themselves and assured met that all the original functions are kept.
They advised:
Adaptercable for the amp: https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...mb-1-9mbux-bur
Match UP 10 DSP amp: https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...fiers/up-10dsp
Match analog in: https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m.../mec-analog-in
With these included the mounting and adjusting of this set will cost around €1700/$2000 and im thinking its the way to go.
Only my wish for BT streaming directly to the amp seems to be a point im not getting clear. I suggested it cause now there's whizzing noise when i stream/use AA. Whizzing like when a FM station is barely in reach. Like...a soft wind in the background. Hissing the right word? Anyway i asked if BT streaming to the DSP amp was possible.
1 replied that since the Match Mec Analog In is used, that slot in de dsp isnt available for BT streaming.
Is it correct that you went for another sollution than the MEC Analog In and took instead a ZEN-M MOST®150 preamplifier interface from NAV-TV for the signal and why? For having the BT option for the remote tuning?
Interesting sidenotefreetipforthisday: dove in my source agáin. A Samsung S20 using Youtube-music, Youtube and sometimes Spotify. Checked all the settings on the phone and turned of some enhancers. But still sounds crap. Turns out there's Tidal. For those who are like me and a complete idiot in world of bits, bites and evereting you cant reapir with a vicegrip: Tidal is an app like Spotify but "better sound quality". (I always was happy with the lesser, i dont need any posh sounding app for better music! I dont even like music! Until i discovered a genre wich lead me listening music every possible chance in my car since the '90) You need a €20/month subscribtion to unlock a (Master) mode. But man/woman does that make a difference. Allmost ALL of the noise is gone. Unbelievable better than YTM. Tidal streams in a other format and bitrate (972kbit flac) than YTM (128kbit AAC.m4a) and sounds way, way better. For comparison i played the same song in both apps and the difference is stunning. Spotify says at the end of '21 they also will offer such a HiFi-subscribtion btw.
Another this that bugged me was the low volume of the aux inputs. The radiovolume was significantly higher. Loud. But the aux like usb, sd, bt and aa were just low. So went to a "guy" who's can check/alter with a MB diagnostic computer (Xentry? i dont know). He changed something in the cars digits so ist now way better. Not completely as loud now as the radio, but solved. Didnt tell me exactly what he changed. Found this forum btw in reading somewere that you could do this yourself in the engineering menu (wich i didnt dare to fidle with anymore after reading some posts were it all went wrong and the screen went completely dark).
Upgrading is a BIG headache! I am in the process of upgrading my 2021 S-Class also with the base Burmester system. The system appears to have 9 speaker locations. In the 2 models I know of, the speakers in the 4 doors get a separate channel to both the mids and tweeters making me assume the amp is 13 channels. I had this system in my prior 2021 GLE450 and it sounded so so at best. I had started an upgrade before I decided to order an S-Class. The installer installed the center dash speaker, two 8" bass speakers under the dash (somewhere??), and just the front door speakers. Just changing those without changing the rear door speakers or rear deck speakers made a BIG improvement. I would imagine replacing all of them would have even sounded better. The Blam 8" speakers are 2 ohm, so they put out a bit more power then the factory 4 ohm speakers. I would try to upgrade the front door speakers, the center channel, and maybe the front 8" woofers. Good speakers are expensive, but if you get plug and play speakers, they should be easy to install (and remove if you sell your car). If that made a big difference for you, I would also consider the rear doors and rear deck speakers too.
Tapping into the Burmester amp to a new amp is very difficult. The Burmester wants to see a "load" and some other feedback from the speakers. I don't recommend it unless you have an installer that is an expert with the hardware and software (DSP). I know this first hand! The only way to make it work is to grab the digital signal that goes into the Burmester, and now feed it to a MOST adapter. There are many models. Some have optical out only in which case you would loose the factory fader. Others have optical and RCA out in which you can assign the outputs to retain the fader. Mercedes recently changed the buss signal from a fiber cable to a coaxial cable. You need to know which your car has and buy the appropriate version. You would need at least an 8 channel amp, and that would necessitate running the rear deck speakers as mono tied together. This is the route I am going, but I am waiting on finding a coaxial MOST150 adapter as they are very new. So far, I think mObridge is the only company that makes them and availability is unknown.
The MOST adapter and 8 channel amplifier are expensive too. When I got my 2021 S-Class with the base Burmester system, it sounded much better then the GLE450. Like I said, I would first try replacing the front door, center channel, and 8" woofers. You might not even need more amplification as the new speakers could play louder and clearer. Even if you did want to get a more powerful amplifier, I doubt the factory speakers would take much more power, so you would need new speakers anyway.
Good luck and let us know which direction you go.
Last edited by Old Rocker; 10-31-2021 at 08:14 PM.
Reason: just adding a line
Old Rocker, any idea what kind of speakers the installed put in the dash and the doors just for other readers here that might be thinking improving their Base Systems? I may do something like that in my E450 Wagon as I do obviously notice a big difference in that car vs my 2018 S560 with the 3D upgrade system. No complaints at all with the 3D audio system other than slight distortions in the upper range coming from the tweeters when I stream music off my iPhone, I don't believe it has anything to do with the system but it's distortion that is there due to streaming as normally it would not be noticed if not for the such good tweeters in the 3d audio.
Old Rocker, any idea what kind of speakers the installed put in the dash and the doors just for other readers here that might be thinking improving their Base Systems? I may do something like that in my E450 Wagon as I do obviously notice a big difference in that car vs my 2018 S560 with the 3D upgrade system. No complaints at all with the 3D audio system other than slight distortions in the upper range coming from the tweeters when I stream music off my iPhone, I don't believe it has anything to do with the system but it's distortion that is there due to streaming as normally it would not be noticed if not for the such good tweeters in the 3d audio.
Center Sur. MATCH UP S4MB-CTR
L&R Front Woofers Blam L200P
Front Doors Blam S 100N24+
Rear Doors Blam S 100N24+
Rear Surround MATCH UP S4MB-SUR
Match also makes the woofers and speakers for the doors, but I went with the better Blam brand for those. All are sold as pairs except the center channel speaker.
Maybe just changing out the front woofers alone would be a good enough improvement. I can't seem to find the blam anywhere for sale in the USA, they look like a french made speaker but perhaps this one would be good enough at about 1/2 the price. https://www.americanhardbag.com/coll...set-for-harley
Maybe just changing out the front woofers alone would be a good enough improvement. I can't seem to find the blam anywhere for sale in the USA, they look like a french made speaker but perhaps this one would be good enough at about 1/2 the price. https://www.americanhardbag.com/coll...set-for-harley
Helix and Match are from one company, and Blam is another, but they are all repped by the same distributer, MSC-America. You should be able to find or order from their dealers. Here is a link to their dealer locator. https://www.msc-america.com/dealer-locator/
Old Rocker mentions "Center Sur. MATCH UP S4MB-CTR" ... is this the speaker in center of the dash? If so, hoe does one get to it? Is it behind the LED display(s)? Is there a way to lift it out from above?
Thanks
BTW, every car I've owned has sounded drastically better with better speakers. It sounds like the standard S-class system will also benefit from upgraded speakers.
Old Rocker mentions "Center Sur. MATCH UP S4MB-CTR" ... is this the speaker in center of the dash? If so, hoe does one get to it? Is it behind the LED display(s)? Is there a way to lift it out from above?
I have the W223 S-Class, but it and the 2021 GLE, have the center channel accessible from the top. You just use a trim tool, basically something a to pry up the grill a bit and then the grill snaps off. The speaker has a connector to unplug and the Match replacement has the same connector. The speaker snaps in with 3 lugs, so pry out the speaker to remove, and the new one snaps in. Also, the original and the Match replacement have 2 voice coils as the 2nd one handles some car functions (not sure exactly), but the Match does have the same function as the factory speaker.
Last edited by Old Rocker; 11-02-2021 at 10:20 PM.
Reason: add sentence
Selling my Sub Box if anyone is interested. It includes the vaunted JL Audio 10W7AE-3 10 Inch Sub. If anyone wants a plug and play subwoofer of epic proportions this is the set up. Selling the car and removed all the gear. Box is custom designed to fit in the trunk of an S Class. 1000.00. Pick up only in the Seattle area.
I have a w221 and needless to say not thrilled with the sound. I was planning to get a 222 at some point in hopes that the system is better. But looks like you guys are struggling as well.
The sound from my previous W221 with the Bose indeed wasnt top notch, but not quite as bad as this BM stuff. Decided to throw everething out and go for the whole 9 yards, incl. 2 amplifiers. Update follows in the next month or so.
Adding the 3D rotating tweeters available from Amazon or eBay for cheap, along with a sub/amp which have infinite choices, really wakes up the standard Burmester system.
I did ust that the rotating tweeters replaced both front door speakers with Focal 4" . Installed a 500 watt pioneer amp running a 12" JL Audio in an enclosure. It is all managed and run through an Audio Control LC7i with EQ Bass control. Sounds fabulous, hits hard. The downside, the already small trunk is tiny. I put quick disconnects on sub box,easy to remove. I listen to a lot of vocals and the new speakers up front have transformer the clarity!
A small update. These "speakers" are the ones who came out of my facelift W222 with the standard Burmester audio (option code 810). Now im not an audio expert but if someone showed me this and told they bought it on Alibaba i would have believed it.
-update- So in first instance we replaced the 15 standart non 3-D "Burmester" speakers with Boxmore/ Focal speakers added a 10-channel 1160 Watt Helix amp and a Helix DSP. Better soundquaity sure, much better, but no wow-factor qua decibels.
So back she went for another setup. We kept the 13 Focal speakers and the 2 Boxmore woofers in the footwell powered by the Helix amp but added 6 extra Focal Flax midbass in the doors, powered by 3 additional Helix M Six amps ánd added a 3D woofercasing housing a Helix K8W woofer powered by a Helix M One X amp. Looking at the 3D sytem, the location of the doorspeakers wasnt optimal so we went for custom doorpanels. The 3D doorwoofers face directly the seats, both in the front and rear compartment so the decision was made to mount them in a more suitable inviroment. They all got a soundbox, and propper door isolation wich the 3D system also lacks. The softclose motorunits in the rear doors had to be allocated to make this possible. Just one small volumeknob for the trunkwoofer was added too customize that level on demand but everething else is operated by the OEM system/buttons. The endresult is..breathtaking. Literally. Its like standing at a concert in front of the soundsystem. All credits to Schut Car Systems in Arnhem Holland for making this possible.
Awesome build, are you having any issues with voltage drops as that many amps must have a lot of draw on the alternator. I have the Burmester 3D set up in my 2019 S63 and it sounds amazing but still lacks a little bass. Thinking of adding an aftermarket 8" sub in the factory sub box in the trunk and driving it with a JL VXi 1000/1 sub amp. How does the sub sound with the factory enclosure you have? Did the shop reinforce the enclosure at all? Cheers.
I was just looking for a thread like this, I have a 2018 with the base BM. To me it sounds like my tweeters or maybe even the mids are blown, they've become sort of crackly over the years. I was thinking about replacing all of the door speakers. I don't want to change the amp or go much further then just speaker replacement. I usually go on crutchfield and get all the info for my car and what speakers it has, but for the w222 they dont have any info.
So I guess what do you guys think about only replacing the speakers? What size speakers are in the doors? What ohms speakers do I need to get to work with the factory amp?
There's somewhat to gain upgrading that woofer. For instance some insulation. Because there isnt any. Its basicly is a plastic shell. Also, did you know that its blasts ínto the trunk via some sort of trumpet shape basspipe? It doenst enter the cabin. It just blasts against the pacel shelf. Strange..
The woofers OEM amp is on the casing. If you just change the woofer i suspect that OEM amp must be changed with it to power it correctly and send suitable frequincies. But....i aint no expert, could be wrong there, i just pay the bills... They changed that amp for the Helix M One X getting signal from the dsp so you need that converter also, and the woofer for a Helix K8W with a custom ring to mount it in the shell. All in all a hell of a job. Sounds ok but honoustly the major "bass" comes from the additional doorspeakers.
Qua drainage of the battery and alternator there are no issues after testing it now for 2 weeks. Just dont use the system if the car aint running and i make only long trips, no groceryshopping. Im planning to upgrade that alternator for a model delivering the max qua amps. The 2 batteries were tested and found in good state but we'll check them in a month or so to be sure. Its quite an ampsucker and it wouldnt supprise me the battery and alternator will die in relation with it sooner than expected. Planning is a seat, pre-heater and a towhook upgrade. That will be the ideal moment also to doublecheck all the wiring , fuseboxes and if so the above mentioned just to be sure.
So I guess what do you guys think about only replacing the speakers? What size speakers are in the doors? What ohms speakers do I need to get to work with the factory amp?
"Match" makes plug and play replacements for some Mercedes. They also have an amplifier to upgrade to. https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/match/speakers/
I would go to their distributors website to see if they have any dealers near you. Mercedes are not easy to upgrade so getting an installer that is familiar with the car and brand of equipment would be better the having a shop just guess. https://www.msc-america.com/dealer-locator/
"Match" makes plug and play replacements for some Mercedes. They also have an amplifier to upgrade to. https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/match/speakers/
I would go to their distributors website to see if they have any dealers near you. Mercedes are not easy to upgrade so getting an installer that is familiar with the car and brand of equipment would be better the having a shop just guess. https://www.msc-america.com/dealer-locator/
Thank you, these look nice. I've never heard of the Match brand before, but it looks to be exactly what I need to swap out the speakers. I could get some OEM replacements but I figured they just blow again. I'm going to do some more research as I'll be installing them myself. Thanks!
Hey MB221, I see your console cover has a diamond quilt insert and seats in Nappa leather ... a combination I haven't seen before on a USA car. Do you happen to know how this was accomplished, was the console cover available where you live as a stand-alone option? Or added later?
10-16-2021, 04:12 AM
The only way to make it work is to grab the digital signal that goes into the Burmester, and now feed it to a MOST adapter. There are many models. Some have optical out only in which case you would loose the factory fader. Others have optical and RCA out in which you can assign the outputs to retain the fader. Mercedes recently changed the buss signal from a fiber cable to a coaxial cable. You need to know which your car has and buy the appropriate version. You would need at least an 8 channel amp, and that would necessitate running the rear deck speakers as mono tied together. This is the route I am going, but I am waiting on finding a coaxial MOST150 adapter as they are very new. So far, I think mObridge is the only company that makes them and availability is unknown.
