How many miles?

 

A way to ask yourself the answer:: Do I like modern/gimmicky automotive interiors.
a) yes, wait they will get more gimmicky
b) no, hold or by used.

It really is that simple.

 

As mentioned by another forum member, it is bigger but the design might had made it more narrow looking (kind of the trend anyways, the new model of the generation it replaced usually always grow a bit, like an E will grow closer to an S (but still not quite) after a generation and the S SWB closer to S LWB that sort of thing, just how MB and AMG made the new AMG GT look kind of smaller than the outgoing model.

 

Sorry for the delayed response. The first check engine light was to replace a thermostat, gaskets and bracket. The second check engine light was to replace a hose clamp which failed on a hose between the purge valve and the charcoal canister. The third check engine light is to replace the vent line check valves in the vent hose from the engine. It’s expected to take three days. i’ve also replaced the window switches on the drivers door at my cost and I had the 12 V starter battery replaced under warranty as it wouldn’t hold a charge. That is to say nothing of the fact that I changed all four tires when I destroyed a run flat by hitting a pothole. Other than what I have mentioned above, I really like the car and would consider keeping it long-term.

 

All good! Don't worry about it.

Thanks for sharing, hmmm that is quite a bit of things but hopefully just defective and the only defective items which now are fixed and car will hopefully have no more problems.

 

So I extensively drove a new S580 and an S580e today compared to my car...my thoughts:

First of all, I think I am coming around on the interior. Its certainly different, but the tech is next level. Both the cars I drove had the 3D instrument cluster which is truly amazing, it really does look like a 3D movie without 3D glasses, and its something that can't be described to you, it has to be seen to be believed. If a car I bought didn't have it, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd be happy to have it. The new active ambient lighting is amazing and fully visible even in broad daylight. There are some quality differences, for instance the W222 has fully carpeted sills where there is no plastic, and the 223 has hard plastic sills which IMO cheapen the interior somewhat, but it is still an extremely nice place to be. The sides of the console in the W222 with napa leather (non exclusive napa) are also real leather, in the 223 they are synthetic, you have to go to exclusive napa to get that area in leather which makes the full door panels and dash leather too, gets the suede headliner and additional wood on the backs of the front seats. Thats a $3,100 upgrade which reqires the $3,800 warmth and comfort package/power rear seats so thats a $7,000 cost. The base Burmester audio is also dramatically better than the system in the 222, so thats a plus. Honestly after listening to it I wouldn't pay for the 4D.

The car does feel more firmly damped than my car. The S580 had 20s, and the S560 had 19s, both runflats and WAY over inflated to 46 PSI, but the dealership has several very big speed bumps, and when driving over them at low speeds the new car definitely feels considerably firmer. The S580 was extremely quiet, and definitely felt quieter than my car, the S580e I drove felt less quiet as no different than my car, so that was a little strange. Not sure if that was a unit difference or if maybe the 580e has different cabin isolation, not sure. What really surprised me was the engine and throttle response in the 580 felt very heavy and sluggish compared to my S560, despite having the 48v mild hybrid system, even with the engine in sport mode. Getting back into my car the difference was immediately apparent, mine felt smoother and more instant and effortless not only from a stop but all the time, quick throttle inputs that feel great in my S560 and let me pop into a hole in traffic for instance feel heavy and delayed in the 580. Strange. Engine stop/start was a non issue in the 580, totally imperceptible. Only annoyance was it doesn't like to creep at idle. So you can't really release the brake a little and let it creep up, it has to engage the engine to do that.

The real surprise was the S580e. It has the inline 6 from the S500 plus a plug in hybrid that gets 60 miles of pure EV range. He put it in EV mode which prioritizes EV use, and when you get on the pedal past a certain point (you can feel that point in the throttle) it starts the engine and gives you the power you want, then it snaps right back into EV. In EV only its obviously not as powerful as that i7 I drove, but the power delivery at all speeds felt much better than the 580 because of that lazy throttle feel, and it has enough power to move the car around pretty well. I am confident that in my daily use I would never need the engine, but the engine would negate my issue of having to charge on a long trip. When the engine comes to life you feel its not as smooth and refined as the V8, but it would rarely come to life...that experience of driving the 580e really threw me for a loop...in full EV mode the car is incredibly serene...I really think I will enjoy an EV...that might be the best of both worlds.

So it gave me a lot to think about...getting back into my car, definitely still like mine and really don't feel the need to upgrade, if I weren't in the lease and forced to make a decision I certainly would not make one now, I would keep driving what I have and wait for the refresh and see whats what...I do like the 223 more than I did when I briefly test drove one a couple years ago...my main areas of concern are the stiffer suspension...I would say thats because of the tires but at those low speeds going over those big speed bumps, the firmer feel is really clear...I would replace the run flats and they would of course be aired 10-13 PSI lower, would make a big impact in the ride.

 

Could also check out a 750e if PHEV looks to be a good move for you. That being said, the 750e's range is half that of the S580e's. I believe there's also a rumor floating around that the S580e will be an order-only car as well. Might be best to honestly buy out your lease, and wait for the market to settle a bit, by then facelifted cars of both the 7er and S-Class will be out by then.

 

I think the only thing that would tip me towards a 7 is if I went full EV...

I may very well do that, but if I do I need to get a warranty before 50k miles and I only have 8k miles left...

 

How are the i7 lease deals? I know that BMW is having trouble moving the 7er’s and iX’s and have started to incentivize them, and I believe this is the final year the tax credit applies to leasing?

 

I don't know. The salesman was going to send me some numbers but he never did. Don't know about the tax credit, thats entirely possible.

$10k incentive on the S580, $10k plus $7,500 on the S580e so $17,500...I would imagine the incentives on the 7 are at LEAST that

 

Just keep in mind that sedan cars don't get the $7,500 tax credit (only 55K sedans and below get that). Of course, that's assuming you qualify for tax credit at first place. So I'd keep the 7,500 out if you are doing $ comparisons.

As for the S580e, I think that is the optimal S-class anyone could get nowadays. it's an awesome car and much better than the goofy i7 which in my view is the ugliest BMW 7 (at one of the 3 ugliest known designs) that BMW has ever made for the 7 linup. It looks so "cheap" from behind, stupid goofy looking especially rear and also front, and with the new 5-series, they looks just exactly the same on the road. The side does not look good either and it sets awkwardly high. The rear seats are a joke. It is only the front dashboard that they may have done fine. The 7 series no longer has that executive styling and again the main issue I have is that it looks surprisingly cheap from the outside. If I pay that much for a car, I'd rather at least get a pretty and good looking car. Ride is good on all S and 7 series cars, so that is granted all the time, but again, I would not even look at the 7 series. No doubt they are dying to move these ugly cars. I had thought about the S580e and I really liked it, but just was not in the mode to wait months for a new car. My W222 sold so quickly with several buyers interested, even though I got scammed first by a buyer that i trusted first who dragged his feet looking to save few $s to make the sale count as a trade or so for 2 weeks who really wasted my time and wasn't genuine in his interest, so I passed on him and sold it to one of the 4 buyers on the waiting list all for full asking price. I had to quickly get on another car so the waiting time for Benz did not work well for me especially with how i like to spec my cars. I might get S560e in the future and if I ever get back to the S-class I would always get S580e over pure-ICE S580. 60 miles of EV range (likely 30 miles in cold real life conditions) is plenty. There is just not that many great cars that are brand new nowadays.... completely different situation than 5-6 years ago when you'd spend months and months thinking about all the good options around.

 

Personally I loved everything about the 7 series except the polarizing front and rear styling. The side I think looks great and the interior is great. Ride and drive is great.

My issue with the 580e is it doesn’t have that smoothness up in the power band. I much prefer the powertrain in my 560…

 

When you talk about smoothness of the S580e engine are you talking about sound or vibration or power delivery? Unless Mercedes lost the recipe for in line 6's it should be pretty vibration free.

 

Both. The I6 is just not as smooth as the V8

 

Surprising, my daughter has a GLS 450 and it’s as smooth as glass.

 

Its not that its not smooth, its just not as smooth as a V8. We're shopping for a GLS also potentially to replace our Pacifica and if you drive the GLS450 and a GLS580 you feel the same difference.

 

So I drove another S580 today, this dealer let me take it by myself which was much appreciated. I deactivated the engine stop start and that dramatically improved the off the line response. I would say in sport engine mode compared to the same in my S560 the 580 perhaps a hair less responsive. I was delighted with the difference and would not consider the S580e in light of this test drive.

This car also had 20s and the tires were less over inflated (but still over inflated, 40) and I found the ride much better.

The car I drove today, I would be happy with as a replacement for mine. Lower pressures and non runflats would improve the ride further.

With that said though, getting back in mine I am very conflicted. Its an incredible car and I do prefer the interior layout and even the exterior look. Its just financially if I am only going to keep it a year maybe 2 longer it just doesn't make sense to buy it out and spend $5k on a warranty, etc. Knowing myself I just don't see me going past say 2025 and not wanting something new.

 

They do if you lease, no issues qualifying etc

 

It is up to the dealer to pass the 7,500 back to you as a discount or not, because for the lease it goes to the dealer not you. I know that most Mbenz dealers are willing to do so, but am not entirely sure about BMW as I haven’t asked.

 

All of the dealers I have been talking to are advertising the $7,500 credit, BMW also.

 

Tesla was the only company that I encountered that was unwilling to pass on the $7500 credit for a lease.

 

wow, I too, went from a w222 sedan then a w222 coupe and made the mistake of going to a w223 and hate every day with it. Unfortunately purchased preowned so I don’t know if I can get a buy back. Happy to see you were able to get back into a w222

 

Buybacks are possible for used vehicles too in certain states if I recalled correctly, if the vehicle is indeed giving you a lot of trouble.

 

even if it wasn’t purchased @ a Mercedes dealer? I got it from a bmw dealer. I thought the buyback was initiated through a sub department of Mercedes finance?

 

Hmmm in that case I really don't know, I'm sorry : (