Top Tier Fuel...I was 100% wrong
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From: Phoenix
222 S-65
Guys worth noting is that no manner of fuel additives will address the huge carbon build-up on the back side of intake valves due to the engine using direct injection.
/Argument for the Bent-12.
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From: Texas
63 Falcon vert
TT and AAA simply validated what we all know which are the proven benefits of raw gasoline additives. Old news for decades.
Because a discount retailer has a an additive formulated blend does not at all mean such proprietary blend is sufficient for internal motor component protection and performance. As a buyer, you have no way to document maximum additive performance. TT aims to convince you its arbitrary and tested threshold is sufficient.
Can you fathom the scope of R&D labs owned by the majors? The retail fuel product from both major and discount brands are not the same. You be the judge.
If your doc prescribes a 20 mg med, would you arbitrarily cut by 50% and take a 10 to save a few bucks? Nor I. Why take the risk? Welcome to discount brands.
Discount brands are cheaper for a reason. I will forever avoid discount brands regardless of their additive marketing claims. Your call.
Mañana boys.
Because a discount retailer has a an additive formulated blend does not at all mean such proprietary blend is sufficient for internal motor component protection and performance. As a buyer, you have no way to document maximum additive performance. TT aims to convince you its arbitrary and tested threshold is sufficient.
Can you fathom the scope of R&D labs owned by the majors? The retail fuel product from both major and discount brands are not the same. You be the judge.
If your doc prescribes a 20 mg med, would you arbitrarily cut by 50% and take a 10 to save a few bucks? Nor I. Why take the risk? Welcome to discount brands.
Discount brands are cheaper for a reason. I will forever avoid discount brands regardless of their additive marketing claims. Your call.
Mañana boys.
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2024 S580
I think you are overthinking this. The study shows clearly that there is a benefit to TT fuels. Since pretty much all of the major fuel brands are TT fuel, what is the issue? It reinforces the decision not to buy cheap, off brand fuel.
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I think the location is as important as the brand, probably more important. One of the reasons I fill up at Costco and or Safeway is because they sell a ton of gas and most of the time I see a distributor truck loading up their tanks frequently. This is an indication that the gas is probably pretty fresh from the refinery and because of the volumes sold, these places tend to take care of their equipment like tanks and pumps. I get very nervous filling up at some small town gas station with a handful of customers a day. The odds of water in the tank or some other contaminant along with stale gas goes up substantially with these little shops, especially when you are pumping premium gas.
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From: SD
Various
I think the location is as important as the brand, probably more important. One of the reasons I fill up at Costco and or Safeway is because they sell a ton of gas and most of the time I see a distributor truck loading up their tanks frequently. This is an indication that the gas is probably pretty fresh from the refinery and because of the volumes sold, these places tend to take care of their equipment like tanks and pumps. I get very nervous filling up at some small town gas station with a handful of customers a day. The odds of water in the tank or some other contaminant along with stale gas goes up substantially with these little shops, especially when you are pumping premium gas.
When going cross country I usually stop at Pilot, T/A, Loves, or name brands at bigger cross roads. And there’s nothing like Iowa80! Small gas stations make me nervous.
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From: Texas
63 Falcon vert
Carlos I have still not read the report but I will….just buried in a few projects.
SW20S fuel with minimal additive blend is no where near the quality of major brand blended fuel, TT mixes eagles and crows and calls both top tier fuel and they’re not.
Final shot….TT adopts a standard below the major brands and labels the reduction as top tier. No way that label flies.
I've enjoyed the enlightening discussion and wish you all rewarding motoring.
Is it safe to call a Single Malt top tier?
SW20S fuel with minimal additive blend is no where near the quality of major brand blended fuel, TT mixes eagles and crows and calls both top tier fuel and they’re not.
Final shot….TT adopts a standard below the major brands and labels the reduction as top tier. No way that label flies.
I've enjoyed the enlightening discussion and wish you all rewarding motoring.
Is it safe to call a Single Malt top tier?
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Had: 1987 300TD, Had: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, Have: 2014 E350 Sport, Have: 2019 S450
Carlos I have still not read the report but I will….just buried in a few projects.
SW20S fuel with minimal additive blend is no where near the quality of major brand blended fuel, TT mixes eagles and crows and calls both top tier fuel and they’re not.
Final shot….TT adopts a standard below the major brands and labels the reduction as top tier. No way that label flies.
I've enjoyed the enlightening discussion and wish you all rewarding motoring.
Is it safe to call a Single Malt top tier?
SW20S fuel with minimal additive blend is no where near the quality of major brand blended fuel, TT mixes eagles and crows and calls both top tier fuel and they’re not.
Final shot….TT adopts a standard below the major brands and labels the reduction as top tier. No way that label flies.
I've enjoyed the enlightening discussion and wish you all rewarding motoring.
Is it safe to call a Single Malt top tier?
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Posts: 9,062
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From: Maryland
2024 S580
SW20S fuel with minimal additive blend is no where near the quality of major brand blended fuel, TT mixes eagles and crows and calls both top tier fuel and they’re not.
Final shot….TT adopts a standard below the major brands and labels the reduction as top tier. No way that label flies.
Final shot….TT adopts a standard below the major brands and labels the reduction as top tier. No way that label flies.
In any event why are you arguing with a report you haven't even read?
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From: Texas
63 Falcon vert
SW20S TT sets an arbitrary data threshold which both average and superior blends exceed. It’s simple. How can average and superior both be top tier? They can’t.
Average and superior have never nor will ever be equal. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
Your turn.
Average and superior have never nor will ever be equal. Why is that so difficult to grasp?
Your turn.
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As posted above, please provide us something to back these statements up. As you admit you havent even taken the time to read the study we provided to you. So....if you're going to say that study is wrong you need to at least read it and preferably provide some evidence that refutes its findings. Otherwise your statements are worthless.
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From: Texas
63 Falcon vert
As posted above, please provide us something to back these statements up. As you admit you havent even taken the time to read the study we provided to you. So....if you're going to say that study is wrong you need to at least read it and preferably provide some evidence that refutes its findings. Otherwise your statements are worthless.
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I must be missing something here. It has been stated, in this thread, that additives will not keep the carbon cleaned off the back of the intake valves, if the injection port is below the intake. If that’s the case, how did the buildup get in there in the first place?
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Maybe oil seepage past the valve seals or PCV can release oil vapors into the intake manifold.
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The Report and testing methodology were very interesting. But unless I missed it there was no listing of which brands are Top Tier nor how to identify which brands meet that criteria. Does anyone have a list or a way to determine which brands are TT?
Thread Starter
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Glad you took the time to read the report, I also appreciate the information. I think the link was included in the pdf, but it probably wasn't a clickable link.
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VVT back flow
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From: Phoenix
222 S-65
Also known as ‘overlap’ when Intake and exhaust valves are both open. Add crankcase vapors to the mix and we have big carbon build up. We haven’t been allowed to have road draft tubes since the mid sixties. Crankcase vapors are mostly inert except for the oil that encourages pinging... so nothing positive about adding that ick to the intake charge.
OEMs use overlap to add exhaust to the intake charge as it is inert (no oxygen) which reduces in cylinder temperatures to address production of oxides of Nitrogen without use of troublesome EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valves and plumbing that goes along with them.
Certain manufacturers are now using direct and port injection. Yes; two sets of injectors.
Engines with port injection don’t suffer from the carbon build up on intake valves.
OEMs use overlap to add exhaust to the intake charge as it is inert (no oxygen) which reduces in cylinder temperatures to address production of oxides of Nitrogen without use of troublesome EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valves and plumbing that goes along with them.
Certain manufacturers are now using direct and port injection. Yes; two sets of injectors.
Engines with port injection don’t suffer from the carbon build up on intake valves.
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The 2.5 turbo I4 in the Genesis GV80 I traded for my Mercedes is one of those motors. Hyundai and Kia both use it too. From what I gathered from my time on the Genesis Owners forums, the port injectors only function on startup/warmup, after that it's all direct injection. I was thinking maybe they worked together at the same time but guess not.
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The 2.5 turbo I4 in the Genesis GV80 I traded for my Mercedes is one of those motors. Hyundai and Kia both use it too. From what I gathered from my time on the Genesis Owners forums, the port injectors only function on startup/warmup, after that it's all direct injection. I was thinking maybe they worked together at the same time but guess not.
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Hmmmmm..... I’ll bite.
Cons....
More injectors to fail. For the four cylinder engine there are now eight port injectors and four DI injectors. DI injectors fail about 3-1 for port injectors. I see multiple injector failures weekly.
DI injectors still fail and are even more of a PITA to replace. DI injectors that fail to spraying wide open have not hydro locked an engine yet that I have seen (miracle!). DI injectors that fail for bad spray patterns can and do make for areas in the chamber that are lean for one cylinder that pings. These show up later as one hole with zero compression.
Pros.... We’ll see. It runs on DI so much that I’d not be surprised to still see carbon on the backs of intake valves.
Cons....
More injectors to fail. For the four cylinder engine there are now eight port injectors and four DI injectors. DI injectors fail about 3-1 for port injectors. I see multiple injector failures weekly.
DI injectors still fail and are even more of a PITA to replace. DI injectors that fail to spraying wide open have not hydro locked an engine yet that I have seen (miracle!). DI injectors that fail for bad spray patterns can and do make for areas in the chamber that are lean for one cylinder that pings. These show up later as one hole with zero compression.
Pros.... We’ll see. It runs on DI so much that I’d not be surprised to still see carbon on the backs of intake valves.
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Hmmmmm..... I’ll bite.
Cons....
More injectors to fail. For the four cylinder engine there are now eight port injectors and four DI injectors. DI injectors fail about 3-1 for port injectors. I see multiple injector failures weekly.
DI injectors still fail and are even more of a PITA to replace. DI injectors that fail to spraying wide open have not hydro locked an engine yet that I have seen (miracle!). DI injectors that fail for bad spray patterns can and do make for areas in the chamber that are lean for one cylinder that pings. These show up later as one hole with zero compression.
Pros.... We’ll see. It runs on DI so much that I’d not be surprised to still see carbon on the backs of intake valves.
Cons....
More injectors to fail. For the four cylinder engine there are now eight port injectors and four DI injectors. DI injectors fail about 3-1 for port injectors. I see multiple injector failures weekly.
DI injectors still fail and are even more of a PITA to replace. DI injectors that fail to spraying wide open have not hydro locked an engine yet that I have seen (miracle!). DI injectors that fail for bad spray patterns can and do make for areas in the chamber that are lean for one cylinder that pings. These show up later as one hole with zero compression.
Pros.... We’ll see. It runs on DI so much that I’d not be surprised to still see carbon on the backs of intake valves.
