I’ve been driving for almost 50 years, nearly as many new cars from the dealer for myself, wife, family, au pair and employees not one service report said some problem was due to poor fuel used.

Maybe electric will have some benefits

 

Ah yes, because you will only need to charge while you're sleeping.

 

Those who own EVs keep plug-in their car immediately and all the time when they are at home. So at any point of time, no matter what time or what day, you get to you car and it's already charged to your optimal state of charge that you deemed reasonable for your needs. So that original statement is true.... with an electric, you never ever need to think about it cause the car is always plugged in and charged (unless you are in a hotel). Even then, in my area and cities around me, many good hotels have charging stations in their parking lot. During my monthly 3-4 hour trip, I no longer charge (ever)... not before I leave home, not during the trip, and not even when I arrive our destination or before I get back home. The hotel we mostly stay at has charging stations which means I charge home... I arrive, I stay at the hotel and keep it plugged in, and 2 days later we leave back home. With my EV, I have zero stops to any charger, wherein if we take our ICE we'll have to fill it up the morning we are leaving, and again the minute we arrive, and once again 2 days after before we drive back home. It works well for that trip in particular, and surely am not saying it'll work the same exact way for much longer trip.

 

Looks wonderful to have an EV ! We are driving to Chicago quite often, around 160 miles one way, you know how many EV's are we seeing on that trip ? Zero !
It probably makes sense to have an EV for a taxi or maybe using it in town or short trips but otherwise....

 

Nobody cares. In case you missed it the title of this thread is concerning Top Tier Fuel. Seems you're obviously in the wrong thread, troll.

 

In daily driving then yeah, I would only have to charge while I am sleeping. When traveling I would have to charge...which is why I do not yet have an EV,

Watch who you call a troll, you're pretty new here lol. S_W222 is not a troll...you're the one trolling here.



I find that hard to believe. I travel by car a lot, and I never take a trip where I see zero EVs, especially in a major market like Chicago.

 

I'm not taking about Chicago, I'm talking about the trip between Quad Cities and Chicago !

 

And BTW I would be happy to accommodate you here and take a trip back and forth to Chicago with you... Chicago is a nice place !

 

Opps !

 

I scrolled through this thread and did not see any reference to cost. I believe regardless of tier we get ripped off buying premium fuel from local stations. Today's Costco price for gas is $2.40 for Reg and $2.95 for Pre. The Valero stations (TT) near me are $2.79 for Reg and $3.69 for Pre. That's $.84 per gal differential. Costco is 30 miles further than the nearest Valero. So 60 miles r/t. My GLC getting about 25 mpg. So to go to Costco to buy 15 gal of premium costs me $36.00. I use 2.4 gal to go to Costco and back. Times $2.95 means is costs me $7.00 to get cheaper gas. If I buy 15 gal of Valero at $3.69 that comes to $55.35. If I subtract the cost to go to Costco it comes to $48.35. Discounting time, wear and tear for the moment, I'd still save $12.50 per fill up going to Costco. I can't say for sure yet, but I think the Kroger near me has premium for $3.32 per gal. Times 15 gal is $49.80. Less the $7.00 to go to Costco gives $42.80. Now I'd still save $6.80. To make the Kroger equal to TT I'd have to throw in a bottle of Techron say every 3 fill ups. $12.00 per bottle. So $4.00 per 15 gal. So that brings the savings going to Costco for TT up to 10.80. I am leaning towards Kroger and Techron. Time, wear and tear mean more as you age out, both for me and the car. And we hit Costco and Sam's maybe once every 3 weeks. My brain is already hurting from this exercise so I won't try to factor in a possible Costco stop. So perspectives? Is Techron a good alternative to TT? Does the time, wear and tear count for a lot more than I think? BTW I am averaging 500 miles a month per the Mercedes Me app.

 

"Im aware, but I think you’re just not paying attention to the EVs…"
I'm a car guy, trust me, I'm paying attention !
Anyway the invitation is open , so here is the deal, if Im right you pay the accommodations and everything in Chicago, Peninsula is my choice, if not everything would be on me !

 

You are coming a bit too salty and aggressive for a newbie. I posted a reply with absolute respect; I haven’t even argued with anyone. I don’t see the reason for you to act out of class, though I understand the need for some personalities to act that way behind screens; I hope that’s now how you act in real life. Like others said, watch your words here; we are a “community” of users here, helping each other, often chatting and sometimes right on topic, and sometimes deviate* just slightly as needed. As a new member, you haven’t earned yet your reputation to call out others,, excessively use bad words that we often don’t want to read, or even try to coach us how to stay on topic when it’s not even your responsibility. If you are interested in moderating; go ahead and submit your request but adjust your attitude first. This forum specifically is VERY well moderator, and I’ve seen dozen of non-sense, scams, rude posts, getting deleted within minutes - you seem to be on a track to also get some of your posts pushed to the forum dumster soon with that attitude. Again just a reminder - we all here form a community (we can argue) but we tend to keep a tone of respect. You’re welcome to act as one of us; otherwise you’ll join a small pool of users who post a thread, a comment or a question and get zero attention, reply or help from others.

Back to the original issue you have: My response was on topic and related to a previous comment you posted before mine.

 

MercFan4life, it would behoove you to be humble. There is an amazing wealth of knowledge in this forum, that can be tapped into. You may want or need some of that expertise and knowledge to help you with an issue with your car. That favor you might ask of the forum, might get ignored.

 

Cleaned up the thread a bit but agree that the EV discussion is off-topic and not beneficial.

Any personal attacks will be deleted. Thanks

 

Thanks for the cleanup! I watched football and worked in the yard all day yesterday, Guess I missed the "real" games

 

Not much to miss !

 

This thread has helped me in choosing gas. In our cross country trips I usually stopped at Pilot, Loves, or maybe T/A, and sure, they pump a lot of gas so it’s probably fresh, but not TT. Now considering TT I’ll stop at a Maverick or BP which are just as easy to find. I’m not counting pennies so stop, gas, and go… then look for a rest stop to stretch legs and relax for a few minutes.

 

I talked with someone I know On Drexel University’s chemistry department today, a petrochemical professor from the Dupont labs. Any top name brand - Shell, Mobile, Sunoco, BP, Getty and a few others and Costco are Top Tier because of the additives these companies put in their fuels. Mercedes recommends these brands for American models along with 93 min octane.

 

The rating for my 2018, as specified on the fuel door, is min 91.

 

Pretty sure we said that

 

Top Tier Fuel Post and Research Synopsis



Prior to finding this article, I thought octane rating was the most important factor in which gasoline to choose and use. I had been told by a fuel delivery driver that all not premium gas was the same; literally pulled from the same tanks and nothing was different regardless of brand. He told me that the only difference was in premium gas, where each brand puts an additive in the gas that’s in the storage tanks at the distribution center, not in the truck or at the gas station. My choice in fuel to purchase was based on this, and it’s not accurate. It might have been accurate at that time, but is not the way gasoline is distributed now.



Top Tier fuel has nothing to do with Octane levels, the 2 are totally independent. Information from Report: “Some consumers may associate gasoline quality with fuel grade (premium vs. regular) or octane number, which is a mistaken assumption. Motorists should use the fuel grade recommended by the vehicle manufacturer in the owner’s manual.”

Summation regarding octane: Gasoline doesn’t “burn” in an engine, it actually “explodes”. Gasoline’s special quality that makes it the perfect fuel for ICE is how it explodes under heat and pressure. The spark from the plug ignites the mixture at the optimal time and piston position. Octane level, or octane rating, measures how resistant a fuel is to premature ignition, or "knocking", in an engine. Further explanation: “Octane ratings are measures of fuel stability. These ratings are based on the pressure at which a fuel will spontaneously combust (auto-ignite) in a testing engine. The octane number is actually the simple average of two different octane rating methods—motor octane rating (MOR) and research octane rating (RON)—that differ primarily in the specifics of the operating conditions. The higher an octane number, the more stable the fuel. Retail gasoline stations in the United States sell three main grades of gasoline based on the octane level:

• Regular (the lowest octane fuel–generally 87)
• Midgrade (the middle range octane fuel–generally 89–90)
• Premium (the highest octane fuel–generally 91–94)

The goal of the study was to see if the additives in Toptier gasoline actually helped reduce carbon buildup on intake valves. This study was NOT about fuel economy or performance. It can be argued that you could expect better performance due to a cleaner fuel system, but there was nothing in the test that talked about economy or performance increases or efficiency. If that was the case, then why do the study?? In a lot of today’s engines, the fuel injectors spray fuel directly into the combustion chamber instead of into the intake port. GDI engines spray atomized fuel into the combustion chamber. Port injection (PI) engines spray fuel into the intake ports. Since PI engines spray fuel into the intakes, the fuel cleans off carbon deposits from the back and head of the intake valves. On GDI engines this does not happen. Therefore, GDI engines can suffer from carbon buildup on the back of the intake valves, reducing efficiency and causing even more carbon buildup over time. Over time carbon buildup can cause:

· Reduced engine power

· Poor fuel delivery

· Valves sticking

· Damaged valves or pistons

· Rough idle, misfires, and increased emissions



In the case of the M177/M178 engines the increased emissions will cause the oil separators to clog, which leads to increased crankcase pressure and eventually leaking valve covers, or the dreaded rear main seal failure…OUCH!!! That means a very expensive repair.



That’s why it’s important. Having said that; it’s only relevant to GDI engines. They tested different Toptier gasoline to see if they in fact helped to reduce carbon buildup and to also remove existing carbon buildup. All gasoline used in the test was Premium 93 Octane. Excerpt from report:

“Premium fuel (93 octane) was selected as the octane grade for this evaluation due to the trend of some brands to put a slightly higher concentration of detergent in their premium grades of fuel. Even non-TOP TIER gasolines may include additional additives in their premium grades, so this choice in octane was intended to eliminate that variable. Retailers that sell TOP TIER gasoline are required to meet TOP TIER standards in all grades of fuel, not just premium. For TOP TIER gasoline, the test results (fig. 8) should be consistent if the test was conducted with regular grade gasoline. Testing non-TOP TIER brands of regular grade gasoline would likely result in similar or higher levels of carbon deposits on critical engine components.”



You can read about the methodology and test parameters, but I wanted to tell you what I thought was important.

The additives in the gasoline are designed to:

Clean the injectors as they flow through the fuel system

Survive the combustion process and get into the crankcase oil through normal blowby. Then flow through the EGR system and clean the valves as they are returned into the combustion chamber.



The additives actually did that, and that’s amazing!!



In order to make it fair, they tested Toptier fuels and non Toptier fuels. Here’s an excerpt of the results:

4.3 Test Results

The weight of the intake valve deposits was measured with a high accuracy lab scale. The weight of the deposits on all four intake valves were averaged into the values shown below (fig. 8) to represent each brand of fuel. The non-TOP TIER gasolines resulted in a group average 660.6mg of deposits per intake valve. The TOP TIER gasolines had a group average of 34.1mg per valve or roughly nineteen times fewer deposits than the non-TOP TIER gasolines.



Lastly; who did the test and was it objective? This was an objective test performed by the American Automobile Association, AAA, or Triple-A. They tested to see if paying the additional cost at the gas pump was worth the extra money. In their opinion, it was. In their report, they stated that Toptier gas cost $.10 cents per gallon more than non Toptier. That’s not the case where I live, but they bought gasoline in Texas, and tests were performed back in 2016. Also, consumers have the choice of purchasing fuel system cleaners over the counter, and it has the same effect. The ingredient that does the most work is PEA, along with some other compounds.

 

Just for clarification, BP isn't a top tier gas. They were in the past but not currently. They've said in the past their gas qualifies for TT, but they don't subscribe to the program.

 

Interesting...I was at a BP gas station when the fuel delivery driver told me that all the grades, except premium, were the same. BP no longer offers gas in WA state, or pretty much anywhere on the West Coast, even though they have a refinery in WA state. I think they sell as ARCO on the West Coast. Maybe that's why ARCO is Toptier gas.

 

How odd, that ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Company) a quintessential American company, got bought out by BP(British Petroleum). Another Y2K glitch I suppose.

 

Guess it’s amazing they’re still in business after that disaster **** show in the gulf years ago. My list is getting shorter. Still lots of good choices.