Thats my thing, I just never use the rear seats. I sat in them once when I bought it and thats it, other than cleaning the car like you said. Hence why its not something that would be a make or break of the purchase decision for me. I got them on the 580 because I had to to get the exclusive nappa.

 

I agree 100%. I had a 2001 S600 and my brother had the top fo the line Lexus, Not sure if 400 or 430, from the same time period...no comparison! My S600 blew his Lexus away in EVERY way, including rear seats. I had reclining and massaging rear seats, no other car could touch that level of comfort and performance.

 

Well, the Lexus was probably just under $70K, while the S600 was probably another $50K+. The MB SHOULD have blown away the LS, but the amazing thing was just how good the Lexus was. Let’s not even get into a discussion as to reliability, service expenses, etc.

 

Well of course, the S600 was twice the cost and a V12 lol. Compare it to a 2001 S430 though which is a much fairer comparison and the LS430, while not nearly as good looking was a better car.

When we replaced my Dad's 98 LS400 with his 04 LS430 in 2004 he really wanted an S430, but we legitimately couldn't justify the cost premium. The LS430 was a nicer car, rode and drove better and it was cheaper. The only reason at that time to choose the S Class was the fact that it was an S Class. When the LS460 generation rolled around and the W221 S Class came around, Mercedes started really pulling away from Lexus but in the LS400/LS430 years the LS was at the least as good a car for dramatically less money.

Seriously that LS400 is the only car we ever had that I wish I still had.

 

I'd say the 2nd gen LS ('95 to '00) was the best generation that Lexus ever produced of that car. Although there were a ton more features available for 2001 with the LS430 and it became much more modern, the simplicity of the 2nd gen and the dead on reliability of that car, coupled with Lexus being at its peak in dealer service at that time made it a fantastic experience. The first gen, although only 10 hp less than the 2nd gen, was an absolute dog in acceleration off the line, probably due to very tall gearing. Even the ES300 of that time was quicker. But somehow Lexus got so much more out of the 2nd gen, likely in regearing the trans that it felt quite quick for a car of its size. The LS430 was kinda ugly with its very tall cabin that looked straight up and down and slab sided design, which kind of mirrored the Avalon design of that time. And then they tried to make the car look sleek in 2007 with the LS460, but ultimately I think they failed in execution. I just didn't like the more cramped feel in the drivers seat. That's when I gave up on Lexus as the LS designs kept getting more and more strange and outlandish, especially for such a conservative brand.

 

Yes, along about 2012 or so, Lexus began to lose their minds when it came to styling, literally. The “spindle grill” design started out crazy and ended up absolutely hideous. Even today, so many years later, seeing current Lexus designs on the street makes me cringe. Straight out of an anime cartoon. What a shame.

 

No, you absolutely can get into a discussion about reliability, that's an important part of the conversation. I spent $13K in 5 years of ownership on repairs and maintenance, not counting brakes tires and wheels. My brother only spent money on routine scheduled maintenance, I think he changed tires but I know he didn't need brakes during that 5 year span. To your point; ownership cost couldn't be farther apart. He kept his car for 20+ years and 230K+ miles without a single "repair". Only problem he ever had prior to 200K was a dead battery. It was his primary car most of the time, but never his sole car. I went through 6 different daily drivers over that same time span including 13 years away from MB because of my experience with constant repairs, the cost of repairs, and the ineptitude of repair facilities.

 

It was a great car. My dad actually kept his 98 when the 430 came out just because of styling. The 04 refresh helped but it was never as appealing a car IMO

 

Yeah....it seems that some car designers are on acid when they come up with their designs. And the corporate heads are probably smoking the crack pipe to push those designs to market. And then the public has to be in a mass psychosis to actually want them....kinda like the people that still line up for COVID jabs.

 

Mostly just pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about Lexus' designs when he chose to buy that lol. The spindle LS460 and LS500 are total beauty queens by comparison:





I actually thought my 15 and 17 LS460s were some of the best looking cars I ever had.

Its a shame because I firmly believe that 7 Series is a better car than my W223, I just couldn't bring myself to do it because its so ugly.

I can't remember the last time I saw a car come out and my first reaction has been "that is beautiful"...there always has to be something about it that is challenging...

 

 

Ah, it’s OK. If he wasn’t constantly ragging on me, what fun would that be?

After the truly irritating ride quality I experienced in my E-ABC equipped 2022 S580, I promised myself that the next daily driver decision I made would have ride quality & comfort as “THE” deciding factors. I never considered the new BMW 7 Series, nor had I even vaguely considered going EV. I went and test drove the Bentley New Flying Spur but really didn’t care for how it drove. Just because there was not much of anything else out there, I test drove a new BMW 740 and was not impressed at all. But then, I caught Doug Demuro’s test of the I7 and he was just SO blown away by the car, saying how he thought it was better than the ICE versions, I wondered if I was missing something and decided to give it a try.

Within the first mile of driving the I7, I was just smitten! I had this huge grin on my face, as I took it up on the freeway and the silent, locomotive like propulsion, paired with the sensational ride quality pretty much sealed the deal for me. I got the dealer ordering guide and went to work learning about the cars. I placed my order and had to wait around six months to get it, due to a recall on a part, but from day one, the car has impressed me to no end.

The exterior design has grown on me, but I certainly would prefer something more elegant, understated and beautiful, but when I am behind the wheel, any thoughts of exterior styling are completely forgotten as I enjoy The Ultimate Driving Machine. Being my 61st brand new car, I can honestly say that my 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60 is one of the very best on the list. It is over a year old now, with about 13K miles and has not been back to the dealer for ANY problems. What can I say, love this car!

 

I am absolutely convinced that a major Southern California MB dealer—which I will not name—constantly does unauthorized work to run up the bill. The same dealer I believe performed unnecessary warranty repairs, because they had the car in their shop, had the manpower available and figured “why not?” Then, when there was a real—but difficult to diagnose—issue, they dust the car off and return it to the customer, stating the “everything is operating as designed.”

 

Gentlemen. No need for this continued bickering. The thread has been cleaned up a bit.

Opinions change over time just as tastes and designs evolve and more members can share their ownership experiences. I for one enjoy feedback from owners instead of just opinions based on images, external reviews or quick test drives. Thank you!

 

yep - totally hear you - their responses to are going in opposite directions and are more driven apparently by profits vs customer safety.

 

I wish if legacy brands can copy at least part of the Tesla/Lucid/Rivian model and new comers.... sell directly, build proper service centers directly overseen by the manufacture standards, and then optionally let the us the consumer use certified third-party dealers if we want the old-school experience. There was nothing better than my experience with Tesla service in the past. The issue at least here in the US is the franchise laws and dealer contracts that were signed/written in the past. In fact, dealer associations are some of the strongest lobby groups in many states... the know how to work together and use the existing franchise laws in many states which forbid manufacturers with "existing" dealer networks/contracts from selling and servicing the consumers directly. Tesla/Lucid/Rivian pulled it off because they started with no legacy dealers and were able to work it out as such as in all states. At some point I hope that OEMs will push for reform or accept they’ll keep losing buyers. I know that some dealers are getting out of control and the bad surveys aren't enough to hold them accountable.

 

Unfortunately in the US thats impossible for legacy automakers for the reason you said.

I know several people with Teslas though that have had terrible experiences with service, one who is going back to BMW specifically because of the service.

 

The front of the new 7'series is growing on me, but the rear looks very plain, IMO.

 

The front in all black and no chrome looks extremely sharp with RR vibe. I just can't get around the smiley front facia in light color and Msport. Get the same car in lighter colors, smaller wheels, remove the crystal headlights option, keep it in the higher/regular stance height setting, and it transforms from a youthful/younger looking-car to a grandpa-spec plain looking (not for me personally) daily car. It's probably a great thing for sales, but I'd only own it in certain colors and specs, and I do for my current i7.

For the rear, after the G12 (the 2020-2022 LCI 7-series from the previous generation), that previous generation has THE BEST looking rear on any 7 series ever, and among the best looking german lux sedans in my view. Perhaps for me only the "rear" of the W221 AMG beats it. The G12 rear left nothing for improvements in my view, especially as a B7 Alpina. it's so sad cause these are exactly the only 2 out of 3 luxury Mbenz or BMW sedans I never owned in the past 20 years, the W221 especially the S63 one, and G12 7-series especially the B7 Alpina... : (

Rear of the G12 7-series (2020-2022), Alpina B7 in this case.


Front of G70 (2023+ 7-series)) in all-black, MSport and larger wheels, and crystal headlights

 

If I saw that car behind me, my first thought would be that I was being tailed by a 2015 Jeep Cherokee or a newer Hyundai Kona. That front end, no matter what color scheme you choose is downright hideous. The front end of the new X7 is gawdy enough, so why put that ugly face on their top line luxury car? Chris Bangle designed much better looking 7 series than the current model. But the rear end is definitely its best angle.

 

I think (if/when) you see one in person behind you, you will surely not mistake it for a Hyundai (100% not), but you still may not like it though. The same exact way u will never mistake a C-class vs S because they look somewhat similar in design language; the presence and presidential look of the S is very obvious. The thing is that manufacturers are driven by numbers and majorities, not historical trends or smaller demographics, so most new design changes by all OEMs may not speak well to everyone on the planet. U see that with Benz interiors and BMW exteriors, as well as Audi screens, some people including me love it, some (minor %s of buyers demography) don't. BMW designs cars for their current customer base first (and it has always been the case), and with this generation they’ve clearly found a look that also resonates with a lot of people coming to the brand for the first time, even if it means they lost a smaller % of people.

Rolls-Royce did something very similar with their strategy in the last 5 years (and they actually admitted in formal interviews).. they deliberately shifted their design focus toward buyers in their 30s and 40s instead of the traditional old crows, and for the first time ever, some models saw the majority of sales going to that younger group, in fact some of their models have an average ownership age in the 30s (that's crazy, but that crazy part is that this way the sales went up, not down, exactly as they expected and wanted). Can't blame them for making the right thing for them and majority of customers. BMW is playing a similar long game here, and same for most others based on what am seeing. Not every person on the plant will have to like a front end or other design aspect, but majority of those will like it... it’s pretty obvious it’s working for the audience they’re targeting and their sale numbers. Believe it or not, this also bold RollsRoyce design below is the best-selling RR model in Europe for 2024 and right now has an average ownership age of 35 years old (the lowest average age ever in RR history, yet the best selling numbers at that time in europe). It was also the 2nd most demanded model in the world!. That's all I meant by majority vs minority, not that certain demographics are more important than other, but just in terms of % of people who'd like/dislike what's on the road and pay for it.

I am sure that there will be a time for me when I will become out of that circle that they are targeting and I will complain too, but for now, I guess I can enjoy what all german manufactures are doing either with their interiors or exteriors, otherwise I'd be stuck with my W222 until today, it's perfect, but I want technology, screens, which is why I'd rather be in a W223 despite anything I dislike than a W222, and same for the 7 today, I'd rather be in the new one that a B7 that I always wanted.

 

This is a great example of why I just couldn't pull the trigger on a G70 i7. While I think those dark colored ones posted above are cool, I wouldn't call them beautiful but I think they are cool and interesting...I just don't want to drive a car that people have this reaction to. The S Class is always classy...that just appeals to me. To me a car like this is like wearing a nice suit...the G70 is like wearing this suit:



For every person that thinks he looks great, 2 think he looks terrible. I'd like to say "I just don't care what other people think" but I'd not be being honest.

 

I'm so sorry for interrupting your conversations but how we got there from the beautiful W222s in the pristine condition to the ugliest car in its class the 7 Series BMW as well as Rollers is beyond me

 

Sometimes you just need a thread that spins out of control, like this one. It made the forum headlines, and a screenplay even came out of it.

 

One of the parents of a student at the elementary school up the hill from my house has this car. Everytime I see it I think of the batmobile.