Driving electric....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
The Taycan is one incredible vehicle from both a driving and looks standpoint. But when you say a 150 mile range while hooning is disappointing I have to question what your range is while hooning that AMG? You aren't getting anywhere near 10mpg so your range is probably right in line with the Taycan. The difference is the charging/gas refill. That number is dropping quick with new systems coming online that can get you to 80% in less than 15 min. And that's just for when you are out and about and can't charge at home.
From a luxury standpoint EVs will take over easily. There is zero competition to the absolute smoothness and near dead silence an EV operates at compared to ICE. EV's also have a very large performance advantage for everyday vehicles. If you want AMG performance you need to pay every mile you drive in the MPG department. With an EV you get almost the same range no matter how powerful the EV is. What we lose is that connection to ICE engines and exhaust sound. The enjoyment part goes down with EVs. But for 99% of the driving public they are fine with that.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
And as far as pricing goes, I can't believe how far prices have dropped. A model S long range starts at $69k and that's with most options and a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds. That same car a few years ago was $110k. So yes, they are in line price wise with 5 series and E class cars (even though many people have compared them to 7 series and S class cars). If Tesla can nail the luxury and refinement they will be unstoppable.
From a luxury standpoint EVs will take over easily. There is zero competition to the absolute smoothness and near dead silence an EV operates at compared to ICE. EV's also have a very large performance advantage for everyday vehicles. If you want AMG performance you need to pay every mile you drive in the MPG department. With an EV you get almost the same range no matter how powerful the EV is. What we lose is that connection to ICE engines and exhaust sound. The enjoyment part goes down with EVs. But for 99% of the driving public they are fine with that.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
And as far as pricing goes, I can't believe how far prices have dropped. A model S long range starts at $69k and that's with most options and a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds. That same car a few years ago was $110k. So yes, they are in line price wise with 5 series and E class cars (even though many people have compared them to 7 series and S class cars). If Tesla can nail the luxury and refinement they will be unstoppable.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,400
Likes: 5,324
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
The Taycan is one incredible vehicle from both a driving and looks standpoint. But when you say a 150 mile range while hooning is disappointing I have to question what your range is while hooning that AMG? You aren't getting anywhere near 10mpg so your range is probably right in line with the Taycan. The difference is the charging/gas refill. That number is dropping quick with new systems coming online that can get you to 80% in less than 15 min. And that's just for when you are out and about and can't charge at home.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 349
From: Huntington NY
S560
I think OP was just doing spirited daily driving and got 150 miles. I wouldn't call that hooning. Hooning with the Taycan is a different story. Search TheSmokingTire review of the Taycan Turbo S on YouTube. He tests cars in the canyons above LA and drives them like I do. He burned through something like 47% of battery in 17 miles if I recall correctly. Even an AMG manages way more than 17 miles on half a tank with that kind of driving.
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Joined: May 2020
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From: Florida
Check out this article, the writer stopped at numerous charging spots of different companies and found lackluster charging times and technical difficulties when trying to charge his Mach-E and eventually just gave up. https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/24/...trify-america/
Originally Posted by Autoblog
Working on my laptop in the driver’s seat, I looked up after 10 minutes, and realized (according to both the app and the Mach-E’s driver’s display) that I’d only added nine miles of range to its 88 kWh, 376-cell lithium-ion battery — nowhere near the 47 miles in 10 minutes that Ford is touting via these 150-kilowatt, Supercharger-style stations.Hopping from the driver’s seat, I saw the charger screen insisting electricity was being delivered at 74.2 kilowatts. That was only about half the 150-kilowatt rate touted on the machine’s placard, and I would have happily taken it. The actual trickle of juice going into the Ford was 20 kilowatts at best; a fraction of the expected rate, and only about twice as fast as a piddling, 11-kilowatt Level 2 home charger. Ambient temps were in the 40s, and there are always some transmission losses from electrical resistance and heat (typically on the order of 10 to 20 percent) but this was ridiculous.
I plugged into another outlet. Then I moved the Mach-E to another charger further down the row. Next, I called EA’s customer service, where a rep named Justine — working out of Auburn Hills, Mich., the former site of VW’s North American HQ — couldn’t have been more helpful. Justine even rebooted one of the chargers to see if we could pick up the glacial pace. But no dice, fuzzy or otherwise. Justine couldn’t offer any real explanation on what was up, instead promising to get the tech department on the case.
My reporter’s curiosity piqued, I eventually plugged the Mach-E into five of the 10 working outlets, hopping back-and-forth from the driver’s seat into a steady rain, and becoming steadily more frustrated. No matter which plug I tried, the alleged “fast charger” delivered the same weak stream, adding about one mile of range for every minute on the plug. The convenience-factored price of 43 cents per kWh was stiff as well, more than three times the national-average rate of 13.2 cents per kWh for home electricity. If I had hung around long enough, adding 220 miles to the Ford’s “tank” would have cost about $30, more than the price of unleaded gasoline in an SUV that slurps at 20 mpg.
Ultimately, I cut my losses after more than 90 minutes (including time wasted switching plugs), five outlets and a pathetic 76 miles of added range, barely enough to drive for an hour on the highway. I pulled out of Target with the Ford’s battery boosted by 40 percent, showing 136 miles of range — plenty for my trip home to Brooklyn, but again, nowhere near Ford’s claim of a charge from 10% to 80% in 45 minutes.
Of course, one driver’s experience at one bank of chargers isn’t an indictment of the entire network that Ford has partnered with, rather than going the Tesla route and building one of their own. But while I’ve had good experiences at both ChargePoint and EA chargers, I’ve encountered a distressing number of their chargers that are out of service, unable to initiate a charge, or underperforming in charging rates. In contrast, though I’m hardly a regular user, I’ve never plugged into a Tesla Supercharger that didn’t work, first time, every time.
As I wrote in my review, the Mustang Mach-E is one impressive EV, one that stands tall against the Tesla Model Y in most competitive measures. But Tesla’s foresight and investment in its own proprietary network remains a key competitive advantage, right up there with its edge in electric efficiency and range.
I plugged into another outlet. Then I moved the Mach-E to another charger further down the row. Next, I called EA’s customer service, where a rep named Justine — working out of Auburn Hills, Mich., the former site of VW’s North American HQ — couldn’t have been more helpful. Justine even rebooted one of the chargers to see if we could pick up the glacial pace. But no dice, fuzzy or otherwise. Justine couldn’t offer any real explanation on what was up, instead promising to get the tech department on the case.
My reporter’s curiosity piqued, I eventually plugged the Mach-E into five of the 10 working outlets, hopping back-and-forth from the driver’s seat into a steady rain, and becoming steadily more frustrated. No matter which plug I tried, the alleged “fast charger” delivered the same weak stream, adding about one mile of range for every minute on the plug. The convenience-factored price of 43 cents per kWh was stiff as well, more than three times the national-average rate of 13.2 cents per kWh for home electricity. If I had hung around long enough, adding 220 miles to the Ford’s “tank” would have cost about $30, more than the price of unleaded gasoline in an SUV that slurps at 20 mpg.
Ultimately, I cut my losses after more than 90 minutes (including time wasted switching plugs), five outlets and a pathetic 76 miles of added range, barely enough to drive for an hour on the highway. I pulled out of Target with the Ford’s battery boosted by 40 percent, showing 136 miles of range — plenty for my trip home to Brooklyn, but again, nowhere near Ford’s claim of a charge from 10% to 80% in 45 minutes.
Of course, one driver’s experience at one bank of chargers isn’t an indictment of the entire network that Ford has partnered with, rather than going the Tesla route and building one of their own. But while I’ve had good experiences at both ChargePoint and EA chargers, I’ve encountered a distressing number of their chargers that are out of service, unable to initiate a charge, or underperforming in charging rates. In contrast, though I’m hardly a regular user, I’ve never plugged into a Tesla Supercharger that didn’t work, first time, every time.
As I wrote in my review, the Mustang Mach-E is one impressive EV, one that stands tall against the Tesla Model Y in most competitive measures. But Tesla’s foresight and investment in its own proprietary network remains a key competitive advantage, right up there with its edge in electric efficiency and range.
Last edited by js_cls; Dec 24, 2020 at 01:05 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
Outside of Tesla, the number of chargers that can do that speed is very small and aren't always functioning at 100% capabilities to do that even if claimed, and the Electrify America chargers (one of the largest non-Superchargers) have poor reliability. Another issue is finding a charger in general. I hoon around on backroads and in the mountains up towards PA. If I get 12MPG I can easily find a gas station/rest stop, a charger though, let alone one that can charge 80% in 15 mins, that would be a needle in a haystack.
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1991 190E 2.3
I agree with everything that you said, but to add a little perspective in my zipcode where we get a fair amount of electricity from coal you could drive a Tesla Model 3 AWD 3 times the distance as either of your two posted cars or my car and still have lower CO2 emissions That said I recognize the impact on infrastructure requirements.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Huntington NY
S560
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
[QUOTE=emilner;8231757]
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
You sound like a spokesperson for the nuclear power industry. Funny how you failed to mention the nuclear power industry's "dirty little secret" which is that no one has figured out a way to safely dispose of the highly toxic waste generated by nuclear power that lasts for thousands of years and can render large areas uninhabitable for generations. You also fail to note that more manufacturing processes are becoming carbon neutral on a daily basis and will continue to do so so wind and solar are by far better than nuclear power and are also less expensive. Your claim that fossil fuel is a renewable source of energy is flat out false. Fossil fuel is the rotted remains of dinosaurs and because of this it's supply is clearly finite because there was a finite supply of dinosaurs. There's nothing renewable about about fossil fuel. My engineer father was manager of aviation technical service world wide for Mobil and traveled extensively to the world's oil reserves as part of his job so he knew first hand how much oil is left and he also knew that the oil would be running out later this century. MB also knows how much oil is left through its research and determined that the world is about at peak oil right now. These estimates are in line with the estimates of the previous king of Saudi Arabia who estimated in the early 2000s that the world has about 50 to 60 years of oil left. This is why Saudi Arabia is working right now to diversify it's economy so that it's not so dependent on oil and won't be flat broke when the oil runs out. My engineer father who was also a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers also understood that hydrogen is the solution because it's supply is limitless and burning it won't harm the environment like fossil fuel and nuclear power.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
You sound like a spokesperson for the nuclear power industry. Funny how you failed to mention the nuclear power industry's "dirty little secret" which is that no one has figured out a way to safely dispose of the highly toxic waste generated by nuclear power that lasts for thousands of years and can render large areas uninhabitable for generations. You also fail to note that more manufacturing processes are becoming carbon neutral on a daily basis and will continue to do so so wind and solar are by far better than nuclear power and are also less expensive. Your claim that fossil fuel is a renewable source of energy is flat out false. Fossil fuel is the rotted remains of dinosaurs and because of this it's supply is clearly finite because there was a finite supply of dinosaurs. There's nothing renewable about about fossil fuel. My engineer father was manager of aviation technical service world wide for Mobil and traveled extensively to the world's oil reserves as part of his job so he knew first hand how much oil is left and he also knew that the oil would be running out later this century. MB also knows how much oil is left through its research and determined that the world is about at peak oil right now. These estimates are in line with the estimates of the previous king of Saudi Arabia who estimated in the early 2000s that the world has about 50 to 60 years of oil left. This is why Saudi Arabia is working right now to diversify it's economy so that it's not so dependent on oil and won't be flat broke when the oil runs out. My engineer father who was also a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers also understood that hydrogen is the solution because it's supply is limitless and burning it won't harm the environment like fossil fuel and nuclear power.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
[QUOTE=190Efan;8231960]
I don't work for any power industry but luckily I didn't have an engineer father who told me oil comes from dinosaurs. I'd be embarrassed then to find out that's not true. The vast majority of oil is produced from single celled organisms as well as plants and other marine life. In a sense it does renew the problem is it takes a long time.
I do have one question- when you are out and order a steak do you say "my engineer father said medium rare is the best so I'll take that please"?
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
You sound like a spokesperson for the nuclear power industry. Funny how you failed to mention the nuclear power industry's "dirty little secret" which is that no one has figured out a way to safely dispose of the highly toxic waste generated by nuclear power that lasts for thousands of years and can render large areas uninhabitable for generations. You also fail to note that more manufacturing processes are becoming carbon neutral on a daily basis and will continue to do so so wind and solar are by far better than nuclear power and are also less expensive. Your claim that fossil fuel is a renewable source of energy is flat out false. Fossil fuel is the rotted remains of dinosaurs and because of this it's supply is clearly finite because there was a finite supply of dinosaurs. There's nothing renewable about about fossil fuel. My engineer father was manager of aviation technical service world wide for Mobil and traveled extensively to the world's oil reserves as part of his job so he knew first hand how much oil is left and he also knew that the oil would be running out later this century. MB also knows how much oil is left through its research and determined that the world is about at peak oil right now. These estimates are in line with the estimates of the previous king of Saudi Arabia who estimated in the early 2000s that the world has about 50 to 60 years of oil left. This is why Saudi Arabia is working right now to diversify it's economy so that it's not so dependent on oil and won't be flat broke when the oil runs out. My engineer father who was also a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers also understood that hydrogen is the solution because it's supply is limitless and burning it won't harm the environment like fossil fuel and nuclear power.
You sound like a spokesperson for the nuclear power industry. Funny how you failed to mention the nuclear power industry's "dirty little secret" which is that no one has figured out a way to safely dispose of the highly toxic waste generated by nuclear power that lasts for thousands of years and can render large areas uninhabitable for generations. You also fail to note that more manufacturing processes are becoming carbon neutral on a daily basis and will continue to do so so wind and solar are by far better than nuclear power and are also less expensive. Your claim that fossil fuel is a renewable source of energy is flat out false. Fossil fuel is the rotted remains of dinosaurs and because of this it's supply is clearly finite because there was a finite supply of dinosaurs. There's nothing renewable about about fossil fuel. My engineer father was manager of aviation technical service world wide for Mobil and traveled extensively to the world's oil reserves as part of his job so he knew first hand how much oil is left and he also knew that the oil would be running out later this century. MB also knows how much oil is left through its research and determined that the world is about at peak oil right now. These estimates are in line with the estimates of the previous king of Saudi Arabia who estimated in the early 2000s that the world has about 50 to 60 years of oil left. This is why Saudi Arabia is working right now to diversify it's economy so that it's not so dependent on oil and won't be flat broke when the oil runs out. My engineer father who was also a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers also understood that hydrogen is the solution because it's supply is limitless and burning it won't harm the environment like fossil fuel and nuclear power.
I do have one question- when you are out and order a steak do you say "my engineer father said medium rare is the best so I'll take that please"?
Super Member
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From: SF Bay Area
2021 E63S Wagon 2019 S63 AMG Coupé 2015 S Coupé Edition 1 1970 Chevelle LS5
[QUOTE=emilner;8231966]
I don't work for any power industry but luckily I didn't have an engineer father who told me oil comes from dinosaurs. I'd be embarrassed then to find out that's not true. The vast majority of oil is produced from single celled organisms as well as plants and other marine life. In a sense it does renew the problem is it takes a long time.
I do have one question- when you are out and order a steak do you say "my engineer father said medium rare is the best so I'll take that please"?
I don't work for any power industry but luckily I didn't have an engineer father who told me oil comes from dinosaurs. I'd be embarrassed then to find out that's not true. The vast majority of oil is produced from single celled organisms as well as plants and other marine life. In a sense it does renew the problem is it takes a long time.
I do have one question- when you are out and order a steak do you say "my engineer father said medium rare is the best so I'll take that please"?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 11,400
Likes: 5,324
From: San Francisco Bay Area
2019 C63CS
I'm just going by the OP's effective range of 150 miles is not that far off of a regular sports car driven the same way. Driven aggressively most sports cars will not top 10mpg and if they have a 15-16 gallon tank you are looking at roughly the same range. The difference is getting that range back in the tank...
It's a car for fun/experience and not much more.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,975
Likes: 1,343
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
The Taycan is one incredible vehicle from both a driving and looks standpoint. But when you say a 150 mile range while hooning is disappointing I have to question what your range is while hooning that AMG? You aren't getting anywhere near 10mpg so your range is probably right in line with the Taycan. The difference is the charging/gas refill. That number is dropping quick with new systems coming online that can get you to 80% in less than 15 min. And that's just for when you are out and about and can't charge at home.
From a luxury standpoint EVs will take over easily. There is zero competition to the absolute smoothness and near dead silence an EV operates at compared to ICE. EV's also have a very large performance advantage for everyday vehicles. If you want AMG performance you need to pay every mile you drive in the MPG department. With an EV you get almost the same range no matter how powerful the EV is. What we lose is that connection to ICE engines and exhaust sound. The enjoyment part goes down with EVs. But for 99% of the driving public they are fine with that.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
And as far as pricing goes, I can't believe how far prices have dropped. A model S long range starts at $69k and that's with most options and a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds. That same car a few years ago was $110k. So yes, they are in line price wise with 5 series and E class cars (even though many people have compared them to 7 series and S class cars). If Tesla can nail the luxury and refinement they will be unstoppable.
From a luxury standpoint EVs will take over easily. There is zero competition to the absolute smoothness and near dead silence an EV operates at compared to ICE. EV's also have a very large performance advantage for everyday vehicles. If you want AMG performance you need to pay every mile you drive in the MPG department. With an EV you get almost the same range no matter how powerful the EV is. What we lose is that connection to ICE engines and exhaust sound. The enjoyment part goes down with EVs. But for 99% of the driving public they are fine with that.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
And as far as pricing goes, I can't believe how far prices have dropped. A model S long range starts at $69k and that's with most options and a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds. That same car a few years ago was $110k. So yes, they are in line price wise with 5 series and E class cars (even though many people have compared them to 7 series and S class cars). If Tesla can nail the luxury and refinement they will be unstoppable.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
One thing favoring 190Efan's father perspective is that apparently hydrogen car's result in lower CO2's per mile than BEV's given the same source of electrical energy. Of course the goal would be to have zero carbon source of original energy.
Last edited by MBNUT1; Dec 24, 2020 at 11:21 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
It's all speculation at this point. I personally doubt Apple gets into the car making business- margins suck and infrastructure costs are astronomical. I would think they are more interested in self driving and the tech suite to sell to OEMs. Musks reaction was interesting when referencing the battery tech apple is said to be working on...
Thread Starter
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From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
The Taycan is one incredible vehicle from both a driving and looks standpoint. But when you say a 150 mile range while hooning is disappointing I have to question what your range is while hooning that AMG? You aren't getting anywhere near 10mpg so your range is probably right in line with the Taycan. The difference is the charging/gas refill. That number is dropping quick with new systems coming online that can get you to 80% in less than 15 min. And that's just for when you are out and about and can't charge at home.
From a luxury standpoint EVs will take over easily. There is zero competition to the absolute smoothness and near dead silence an EV operates at compared to ICE. EV's also have a very large performance advantage for everyday vehicles. If you want AMG performance you need to pay every mile you drive in the MPG department. With an EV you get almost the same range no matter how powerful the EV is. What we lose is that connection to ICE engines and exhaust sound. The enjoyment part goes down with EVs. But for 99% of the driving public they are fine with that.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
And as far as pricing goes, I can't believe how far prices have dropped. A model S long range starts at $69k and that's with most options and a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds. That same car a few years ago was $110k. So yes, they are in line price wise with 5 series and E class cars (even though many people have compared them to 7 series and S class cars). If Tesla can nail the luxury and refinement they will be unstoppable.
From a luxury standpoint EVs will take over easily. There is zero competition to the absolute smoothness and near dead silence an EV operates at compared to ICE. EV's also have a very large performance advantage for everyday vehicles. If you want AMG performance you need to pay every mile you drive in the MPG department. With an EV you get almost the same range no matter how powerful the EV is. What we lose is that connection to ICE engines and exhaust sound. The enjoyment part goes down with EVs. But for 99% of the driving public they are fine with that.
On the electrical generation front nuclear is the only answer. Wind and solar are terrible for the environment. Yep, I said it. The energy required to build a windmill is roughly on par with the lifetime generation from that windmill. And then you have to burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuels to get them in place. And when they finish their relatively short service life they are a nightmare- just look at the windmill blade graveyards. Same with solar- I have a 16.32KW solar array but I didn't install it for the environment. I did it because it's a great investment after incentives- I earn approx 15% on my investment every year and I don't have to pay taxes on it!! Show somewhere else I can reliably get 15% tax free year after year. But like anything else they have a service life and here's it's roughly 25 years. What will we do in 20-25 years when all of these systems need new panels, what do we do with the old worn out ones?? With today's tech hydrogen is a pipe dream until they can come up with a production and storage system. And no, we are not running out of fossil fuels any time soon, see, they are a renewable resource but it takes time to produce.
And as far as pricing goes, I can't believe how far prices have dropped. A model S long range starts at $69k and that's with most options and a 0-60 of 3.7 seconds. That same car a few years ago was $110k. So yes, they are in line price wise with 5 series and E class cars (even though many people have compared them to 7 series and S class cars). If Tesla can nail the luxury and refinement they will be unstoppable.
I get on my S63 anywhere between 150 and 200 miles per tank.
Nothing crazy about my driving but nothing is legal about my usual speeds either.
Learned to drive in a different environment (autobahns) and just am not able to force myself to crawling with the traffic, most of the time I am in a hurry, my day is too short and I always rush.
I am extremely careful though and would never put anyone around me at risk.
The difference is what you mentioned already, I can refill my car at anytime and anywhere, full recharge of the Taycan is impossible for all practical reasons.
Even if I had 240v in my house, it would take about 15 hours, Electrify America chargers are nothing but a cruel joke at 0.2mile/min.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Huntington NY
S560
You are right.
I get on my S63 anywhere between 150 and 200 miles per tank.
Nothing crazy about my driving but nothing is legal about my usual speeds either.
Learned to drive in a different environment (autobahns) and just am not able to force myself to crawling with the traffic, most of the time I am in a hurry, my day is too short and I always rush.
I am extremely careful though and would never put anyone around me at risk.
The difference is what you mentioned already, I can refill my car at anytime and anywhere, full recharge of the Taycan is impossible for all practical reasons.
Even if I had 240v in my house, it would take about 15 hours, Electrify America chargers are nothing but a cruel joke at 0.2mile/min.
I get on my S63 anywhere between 150 and 200 miles per tank.
Nothing crazy about my driving but nothing is legal about my usual speeds either.
Learned to drive in a different environment (autobahns) and just am not able to force myself to crawling with the traffic, most of the time I am in a hurry, my day is too short and I always rush.
I am extremely careful though and would never put anyone around me at risk.
The difference is what you mentioned already, I can refill my car at anytime and anywhere, full recharge of the Taycan is impossible for all practical reasons.
Even if I had 240v in my house, it would take about 15 hours, Electrify America chargers are nothing but a cruel joke at 0.2mile/min.
While under a juicebox type home charger you can easily charge at 9.6KW which would take a Taycan from 0-100% charge in under 10 hours. That's available to almost all US home electrical services. It would help for discussion if we would just stop discussing Electrify America- they suck and we all know they suck. Luckily they aren't the only game in town.
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From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
I do question your electrical service. It's exceptionally rare to see a single phase 110 service in the US. It must be difficult to live under those constraints (Do you not have an electric dryer, stove, oven, central AC or water heater?).
While under a juicebox type home charger you can easily charge at 9.6KW which would take a Taycan from 0-100% charge in under 10 hours. That's available to almost all US home electrical services. It would help for discussion if we would just stop discussing Electrify America- they suck and we all know they suck. Luckily they aren't the only game in town.
While under a juicebox type home charger you can easily charge at 9.6KW which would take a Taycan from 0-100% charge in under 10 hours. That's available to almost all US home electrical services. It would help for discussion if we would just stop discussing Electrify America- they suck and we all know they suck. Luckily they aren't the only game in town.
I am moving to a rental within a month or 2 anyway as we are going to gut it and rebuild as new on the inside, leaving the beautiful exterior intact.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
It's an old house (built in1907) has the appliances you mentioned but I don't have any outlets for 240v that I could use to charge the car.
I am moving to a rental within a month or 2 anyway as we are going to gut it and rebuild as new on the inside, leaving the beautiful exterior intact.
I am moving to a rental within a month or 2 anyway as we are going to gut it and rebuild as new on the inside, leaving the beautiful exterior intact.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
Opposite end of the house, will take care of that issue during the construction.
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From: Iowa
2025 EQS580
It's all speculation at this point. I personally doubt Apple gets into the car making business- margins suck and infrastructure costs are astronomical. I would think they are more interested in self driving and the tech suite to sell to OEMs. Musks reaction was interesting when referencing the battery tech apple is said to be working on...
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Kenilworth, il usa
GT63S ePerformance 4dr, '25 Bentayga Black Ed.(wife), Wrangler and 250 MLB(kids)
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From: on my way
2012 CLS63
I like old houses too......where I live some homes are historic and one needs PERMISSION to even paint the damn thing....on the outside if it doesn't coincide with the neighborhood....luckily mine was built in 1949 
