W205C43PFL

Fair enough, now I understand what you mean, so basically the new W223 S-Class is more (um... dare I say) S-Class in terms of daily driving than the "sportier" outgoing model? The throttle is more relaxed and like you mentioned, more lazy hence the feeling that you need to really push on the throttle to get some response, sort of like a low horsepower vehicle.

SW20S

I wouldn’t say that at all. The 222 is not sportier, the powertrain and throttle are just better designed. Lazy doesn’t equal luxurious, smooth does. The W223s power delivery is so lazy it’s not smooth. Plus the 223 is more firmly sprung which means it handles better but rides firmer, which is not traditional S Class.

QuadBenz

What if you put the W223 in I or Individual mode with the powertrain set to sport but left the steering and suspension in comfort? Would that address some of the throttle issues?

W205C43PFL

I see, thanks for shedding light on this topic and basing it on your ownership experiences with the car.

SW20S

No, I tried that. It helps but it’s still nowhere near as responsive as my car.

That’s how I have mine set.

SW20S

Drove another one today, they let me take it alone which was great. I deactivated the engine start stop in this one, which I did not do with the other one and that largely solved the issue. I would say its perhaps a hair less immediate a throttle response as my 560, but its very close, and that could be my 560 having been adapted to my demands etc. The one I drove also rode much better on the Hankook tires which clearly are softer, and the pressures were lower but still overinflated. Properly inflated non runflats and it would ride great.

I was much happier with this drive, and while I still prefer the interior layout of my car, and there are still some annoying quality issues in the new car the car I drove today would be a worthy replacement for mine.

crabman

I forgot to mention the stop/start, it needs to be disabled for a satisfactory driving experience.

js_cls

I don’t find that to be the case for day to day driving. The MB stop start has to be the smoothest one I’ve experienced. And best part is it still runs the AC thanks to the 48v system. The new BMW’s don’t do this and no longer have an off switch, forcing you to drive in sport.

SW20S

I agree with all of that, but it does delay the throttle from a start, it was a night and day difference.

crabman

It may be the smoothest I've felt myself, but I can still feel it and I can feel the delay it causes on throttle. The real problem though is that these things stack. If the throttle wasn't so stupidly soft, the start/stop wouldn't be so bad, or turn it off and it helps with the stupidly soft throttle.

For me when taken together the car is broken: I discarded the idea of a purchase after my first test drive because I didn't want to have to get in and hit two different switches to get the car to move the way it should without any intervention at all. Once I found out you can get it to bring up a toast and start in the previous mode with both the drive program and the start/stop it went back on the short list. Dealbreaker material overcome.

SW20S

Thats exactly how I felt @crabman , I left the first test drive feeling I could not consider the car, and the second one feeling that I can. If they had one that fit my wants in terms of color and equipment I might have traded yesterday.

To take it one step further you could consider a Pedal Commander. I had one in my LS460L because I couldn’t have sport driving without sport suspension. It worked great, just plugs into the OBD port and would dial the throttle in just that little bit more.

crabman

I've had em and I wouldn't hesitate to use one here but I'm ok with the car using individual set to engine and steering on sport and start/stop disabled. As you know better than a newbie to the brand like me this isn't a car you buy to go fast, it's at its best doing the relaxed luxury thing and again, I'm ok with that. When everything is working, I very much like it.

These drive modes are often counterproductive. You'll recall when I was complaining about it way back and people were telling me the car wasn't designed for sport. I was responding by saying I get it, no one buys this car with sporting intentions. As it's set up in comfort the car is actually harder to drive smoothly than it is in sport because it takes so much throttle to get anything done and because the transmission shifts so lazily that when it does try and downshift it often gets caught flat-footed. At intersections or any place where you need to shoot into traffic right now, you get that delay on throttle, then the delay for the downshift(s), then you push in more throttle because not much is happening even though you've got your foot well on it's way to the mat, then it makes another downshift trying to catch up with the increasing throttle you're feeding in, etc. All of which acted to make a smooth departure from the stop harder and could have been avoided if the throttle actually made the car move when you push it. Keep in mind I'm not trying to be annoying by continuing to repeat it but... None of that is trying to go fast, that's just an ordinary intersection in my city where you need to move when it's your turn. I had people honking at me when driving in comfort because the car is very clunky from a stop if you push it but so slow if you drive it they way it wants you to in order to achieve a smooth start you anger the people in traffic behind you. Seattle is not a honkish city, by and large people don't honk much, so when you get it regularly you're doing something wrong. Or driving an S580 in comfort the way it tries to force you to drive.

If you do buy in I'd recommend you try it in sport individual because it doesn't just fix the throttle, as counterintuitive as it seems it also makes it shift more smoothly because you don't get caught in the feedback loop I mentioned above as often and it's still a very soft shift. The steering depends on what you like but I'd also recommend trying that. It will still be one finger steering aka over-boosted but at least it makes it so you think there may be some possible connection between the steering inputs you're making and the direction the car is going.

SW20S

Oh I drove it in Sport Individual, thats how I drive my S560 too. Yeah its not about sportiness, its about effortless driving. I 100% agree with you. I have my 560 coded to default to the last selected drive mode, so its in sport individual all the time.

QuadBenz

Everything you mentioned is a non-issue in the EQS/EQ cars. Reading your post makes me thankful to have a new Mercedes EV so I don’t have to deal with transmissions or any of that. It just goes when you ask it to every single time instantly. No drama, no waiting for anything.

crabman

Yeah, that's probably one of the best attributes of EVs but then when you think about it a Camry moves when you push the throttle. Moving when the throttle is depressed is not a high bar and one most cars can get over seamlessly. That isn't hyperbole; I travel very often and rent many cars, for the most part they move smoothly away from a stop without forcing you to beg. That isn't a bar this car can get over unless you take it out of comfort .

SW20S

Issue is I hate the styling and interior of the EQS. If they put that drivetrain in the W223 I would be all over it

crabman

I don't mind the interior although it feels down in quality and the rest seating is less comfy. That exterior... Someone called it challenging and that's an excellent description. Considered in that way it's a challenge in not up for; I've bought cars I didn't find particularly attractive but that one is more than I can bear.

SW20S

Thats my issue with the interior, the quality differences

W205C43PFL

Hmmm, for those cars I did hear the work around is just to put everything in comfort in sport individual, or probably code it out I guess if that is a thing.

js_cls

You use to be able to set an individual sport mode, and have the engine/trans in comfort as a workaround, however folks on the X5 forum say that does not work anymore and start/stop still engages anytime the engine/trans is set to comfort. I also believe coding affects the ability to update software, but I am not sure since I haven't ever coded any cars.

W205C43PFL

I see, so it was a thing after all but no longer a thing, oh well, not entertaining the idea of companies forcing things down our throats, disappointed to hear that.