4MATIC on S500/580
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,838
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From: Florida
The bottom line on this is that 4-Matic, along with a bunch of other features—the ugly Panorama Roof comes to mind—should be OPTIONAL! If someone wants to place a special order, they should be able to check the boxes they want and leave others empty. I would have definitely not have ordered 4-Matic, or the Panorama Roof, OR the big brakes, which would have allowed me to order 18” wheels. I would have been able to order the 10 Degree Rear Axle Steering, without all those heavy, expensive, rear seat options that I never use.
True luxury is having something exactly the way YOU want it, not how some bean counter decides you SHOULD have it.
True luxury is having something exactly the way YOU want it, not how some bean counter decides you SHOULD have it.
Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 99
Likes: 29
2023 S400D and 2007 C350
The bottom line on this is that 4-Matic, along with a bunch of other features—the ugly Panorama Roof comes to mind—should be OPTIONAL! If someone wants to place a special order, they should be able to check the boxes they want and leave others empty. I would have definitely not have ordered 4-Matic, or the Panorama Roof, OR the big brakes, which would have allowed me to order 18” wheels. I would have been able to order the 10 Degree Rear Axle Steering, without all those heavy, expensive, rear seat options that I never use.
True luxury is having something exactly the way YOU want it, not how some bean counter decides you SHOULD have it.
True luxury is having something exactly the way YOU want it, not how some bean counter decides you SHOULD have it.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 893
Likes: 397
From: Hong Kong, China
2021 S450 4Matic
I don't know if you would like the consequences of modular configuration rather than what you have in the US. Here in Germany, we have modular configuration, meaning most features that are standard in the US are options here. Like, panoramic sunroof is optional, the big breaks are optional as well as the 21 inch wheels. The problem with modular configuration is you end up with a very basic car and optioning it becomes very expensive. I been on both programs and US packaging seems to be cheaper than the ones here in Germany. The only advantage we have here is we have the option to pick up the car at Factory 56 in Sindelfingen.
Having packages allow a lower cost due to the larger scale manufacturing.
Modular configuration raises the manufacturing cost.
Ultimately it is the customer who bears this expense. There is simply no free lunch.
A 5-course set lunch in a restaurant is always cheaper than your ordering each course separately,
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,497
Likes: 335
From: Europe
223.168 & 213.012 & 906.633 & 214.005
Yes, this is Economics 101.
Having packages allow a lower cost due to the larger scale manufacturing.
Modular configuration raises the manufacturing cost.
Ultimately it is the customer who bears this expense. There is simply no free lunch.
A 5-course set lunch in a restaurant is always cheaper than your ordering each course separately,
Having packages allow a lower cost due to the larger scale manufacturing.
Modular configuration raises the manufacturing cost.
Ultimately it is the customer who bears this expense. There is simply no free lunch.
A 5-course set lunch in a restaurant is always cheaper than your ordering each course separately,
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,124
Likes: 4,353
From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
I don't know if you would like the consequences of modular configuration rather than what you have in the US. Here in Germany, we have modular configuration, meaning most features that are standard in the US are options here. Like, panoramic sunroof is optional, the big breaks are optional as well as the 21 inch wheels. The problem with modular configuration is you end up with a very basic car and optioning it becomes very expensive. I been on both programs and US packaging seems to be cheaper than the ones here in Germany. The only advantage we have here is we have the option to pick up the car at Factory 56 in Sindelfingen.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 697
Likes: 238
From: Illinois
S560/SL550/LS460/Q70L 5.6 AWD
I agree with the above except that I'm not sure about the additional production cost. Factory 56 (even the older ones) can build even different cars one after the other (EQS, W223 with the variants). The factory installs all options as they were individual options. I understand the economics of scale for parts supply etc. but the actual production in my opinion does not gain from options packaging.
If somebody has the chance to go to Mannheim at the John Deere tractor final assembly line you will be amazed, all the tractors there are different, based on the customer orders ! I bet Porsche is the same , so, it can be done.....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,124
Likes: 4,353
From: Corona Del Mar, CA
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
Yes, this is Economics 101.
Having packages allow a lower cost due to the larger scale manufacturing.
Modular configuration raises the manufacturing cost.
Ultimately it is the customer who bears this expense. There is simply no free lunch.
A 5-course set lunch in a restaurant is always cheaper than your ordering each course separately,
Having packages allow a lower cost due to the larger scale manufacturing.
Modular configuration raises the manufacturing cost.
Ultimately it is the customer who bears this expense. There is simply no free lunch.
A 5-course set lunch in a restaurant is always cheaper than your ordering each course separately,
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Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 697
Likes: 238
From: Illinois
S560/SL550/LS460/Q70L 5.6 AWD
''A 5-course set lunch in a restaurant is always cheaper than your ordering each course separately''
This is like " all inclusive" versus "a la carte" , well, the all inclusive quality is simply ... whatever it is....
This is like " all inclusive" versus "a la carte" , well, the all inclusive quality is simply ... whatever it is....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 1,481
23 S580 Executive
The options list is crap here, our friends to the North can choose between many more options on the same car. AMG is not a variant, want 10° just check the box, 4.5° check that box. Yes you're still constrained on your wheels with 10° but there is a real world reason for that constraint. Want 4 seat configuration, yep. Want it without the entertainment package, sure. It goes on and on.
It's less than Germany but it's enough to give a guy a way to get the car he wants in the important details. I'd have been happy with that; that don't have to go full on Porsche style. Although I'd be even happier if they did.
Bottom line is we have a poor options list that has serious issues with some important options. AMG should not be a variant, it should be an option available everywhere. You shouldn't have to pick a massive bundle of options many people don't want or need to get 10° rear wheel. Not should you have to pick executive just to get seat functionally like heating and cooling in the rear seats. It's not just that you can get these things with Porsche; you can get them on the car I own at a dealership 100 miles away differentiated only by a line on a map.
It's less than Germany but it's enough to give a guy a way to get the car he wants in the important details. I'd have been happy with that; that don't have to go full on Porsche style. Although I'd be even happier if they did.
Bottom line is we have a poor options list that has serious issues with some important options. AMG should not be a variant, it should be an option available everywhere. You shouldn't have to pick a massive bundle of options many people don't want or need to get 10° rear wheel. Not should you have to pick executive just to get seat functionally like heating and cooling in the rear seats. It's not just that you can get these things with Porsche; you can get them on the car I own at a dealership 100 miles away differentiated only by a line on a map.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 893
Likes: 397
From: Hong Kong, China
2021 S450 4Matic
The options list is crap here, our friends to the North can choose between many more options on the same car. AMG is not a variant, want 10° just check the box, 4.5° check that box. Yes you're still constrained on your wheels with 10° but there is a real world reason for that constraint. Want 4 seat configuration, yep. Want it without the entertainment package, sure. It goes on and on.
It's less than Germany but it's enough to give a guy a way to get the car he wants in the important details. I'd have been happy with that; that don't have to go full on Porsche style. Although I'd be even happier if they did.
Bottom line is we have a poor options list that has serious issues with some important options. AMG should not be a variant, it should be an option available everywhere. You shouldn't have to pick a massive bundle of options many people don't want or need to get 10° rear wheel. Not should you have to pick executive just to get seat functionally like heating and cooling in the rear seats. It's not just that you can get these things with Porsche; you can get them on the car I own at a dealership 100 miles away differentiated only by a line on a map.
It's less than Germany but it's enough to give a guy a way to get the car he wants in the important details. I'd have been happy with that; that don't have to go full on Porsche style. Although I'd be even happier if they did.
Bottom line is we have a poor options list that has serious issues with some important options. AMG should not be a variant, it should be an option available everywhere. You shouldn't have to pick a massive bundle of options many people don't want or need to get 10° rear wheel. Not should you have to pick executive just to get seat functionally like heating and cooling in the rear seats. It's not just that you can get these things with Porsche; you can get them on the car I own at a dealership 100 miles away differentiated only by a line on a map.
But, to put the record straight, MB Canada also has hidden packages too.
Say, you cannot just check the box for Digital Light headlamps, you have to also choose the Premium Package. The same goes for the 10° RWS.
And, you cannot choose the 4.5 ° RWS without also having choosing either the Sport or Night packages.
Perhaps the active forum members here do not represent the overall MB buyers in the US. I mean, I suspect the majority of the MB buyers do not mind having packages and the 3 lines of Luxury/AMG/Executive..etc and that explains why MBUSA choose to use this approach?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 1,481
23 S580 Executive
No, that isn't the landscape. Want 10 degree on your car in Canada and you're going to add 6,682 US dollars to the total and the premium package that is going along for the ride is much smaller and has desirable options that many will want. Want 10 degree in the US it's going to run you 14,600 US dollars, is loaded with 4 option packages within that package, and is much more likely to contain content you didn't want. Meanwhile the 4.5 requires adding the sport or the night because it's only of interest if you order what is called the AMG package here which is limited to 4.5 both here and there due to the wheels. If you don't get the AMG package by whatever name there is no reason whatsoever not to get the 10 degree and you would do that instead meaning it's not a limit at all other than the constraint caused by the wheel sizing itself. You would not be cut off from AMG if you want the exec options because there is no executive package, no exlusive, and no AMG. It's much more broken up and far easier to make a more specific configuration tuned to individual desires. As I said, I'd rather have the German options if I could get it but the Canadian optioning makes it significantly easier to get the options you want without those you don't than in the US.
As to why they do it; thats a known: large option bundles force people to buy options they don't want to get options they do want and that increases profits. I've never read any definitive and credible numbers on who likes such large option packages but I can say for sure they're not loved on the forums of any car I've owned.
As to why they do it; thats a known: large option bundles force people to buy options they don't want to get options they do want and that increases profits. I've never read any definitive and credible numbers on who likes such large option packages but I can say for sure they're not loved on the forums of any car I've owned.
Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 166
Likes: 69
From: California
'23 S580 Manufaktur and '21 GLE 53 Coupe (Past MBZ: 2020 GT63, S65, S63, E55, CL65, S550, C32)
No, that isn't the landscape. Want 10 degree on your car in Canada and you're going to add 6,682 US dollars to the total and the premium package that is going along for the ride is much smaller and has desirable options that many will want. Want 10 degree in the US it's going to run you 14,600 US dollars, is loaded with 4 option packages within that package, and is much more likely to contain content you didn't want. Meanwhile the 4.5 requires adding the sport or the night because it's only of interest if you order what is called the AMG package here which is limited to 4.5 both here and there due to the wheels. If you don't get the AMG package by whatever name there is no reason whatsoever not to get the 10 degree and you would do that instead meaning it's not a limit at all other than the constraint caused by the wheel sizing itself. You would not be cut off from AMG if you want the exec options because there is no executive package, no exlusive, and no AMG. It's much more broken up and far easier to make a more specific configuration tuned to individual desires. As I said, I'd rather have the German options if I could get it but the Canadian optioning makes it significantly easier to get the options you want without those you don't than in the US.
As to why they do it; thats a known: large option bundles force people to buy options they don't want to get options they do want and that increases profits. I've never read any definitive and credible numbers on who likes such large option packages but I can say for sure they're not loved on the forums of any car I've owned.
As to why they do it; thats a known: large option bundles force people to buy options they don't want to get options they do want and that increases profits. I've never read any definitive and credible numbers on who likes such large option packages but I can say for sure they're not loved on the forums of any car I've owned.
Amen. One option that grinds my gears is the lack of rear seat climate control in the AMG package. Especially after paying over 3k for the Warmth and Comfort option. Every time I see the empty cubby hole where the AC control should be I get annoyed.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 1,481
23 S580 Executive
Yeah, I went Exec to get heating, cooling, 4 zone, and 10 degree; the rest of it will go wasted. What I did want but can't get at all is the 4 seat configuration.
Everyone has different criteria but I think two basics this car should obviously cover in options packaging is the owner driving him/herself and the owner being driven. Not trying to be Captain Obvious here but this is where the options pinch the most: Those who plan to drive the car and their families may want things like heated, cooled, and massage seating but not any of the chauffeur specific options. Put your loved ones back there in the US it's ghetto seating for them unless you check that executive option which in turn means saying goodbye to the AMG package if you want it.
That ain't right!
Everyone has different criteria but I think two basics this car should obviously cover in options packaging is the owner driving him/herself and the owner being driven. Not trying to be Captain Obvious here but this is where the options pinch the most: Those who plan to drive the car and their families may want things like heated, cooled, and massage seating but not any of the chauffeur specific options. Put your loved ones back there in the US it's ghetto seating for them unless you check that executive option which in turn means saying goodbye to the AMG package if you want it.
That ain't right!
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 893
Likes: 397
From: Hong Kong, China
2021 S450 4Matic
No, that isn't the landscape. Want 10 degree on your car in Canada and you're going to add 6,682 US dollars to the total and the premium package that is going along for the ride is much smaller and has desirable options that many will want. Want 10 degree in the US it's going to run you 14,600 US dollars, is loaded with 4 option packages within that package, and is much more likely to contain content you didn't want. Meanwhile the 4.5 requires adding the sport or the night because it's only of interest if you order what is called the AMG package here which is limited to 4.5 both here and there due to the wheels. If you don't get the AMG package by whatever name there is no reason whatsoever not to get the 10 degree and you would do that instead meaning it's not a limit at all other than the constraint caused by the wheel sizing itself. You would not be cut off from AMG if you want the exec options because there is no executive package, no exlusive, and no AMG. It's much more broken up and far easier to make a more specific configuration tuned to individual desires. As I said, I'd rather have the German options if I could get it but the Canadian optioning makes it significantly easier to get the options you want without those you don't than in the US.
As to why they do it; thats a known: large option bundles force people to buy options they don't want to get options they do want and that increases profits. I've never read any definitive and credible numbers on who likes such large option packages but I can say for sure they're not loved on the forums of any car I've owned.
As to why they do it; thats a known: large option bundles force people to buy options they don't want to get options they do want and that increases profits. I've never read any definitive and credible numbers on who likes such large option packages but I can say for sure they're not loved on the forums of any car I've owned.
I am glad I do not need to buy from them.
Sometime ago, some member asked me to move over to the US...lol....Nah, I do not think so.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,497
Likes: 335
From: Europe
223.168 & 213.012 & 906.633 & 214.005
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 1,481
23 S580 Executive
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 508
From: Westchester, NY
2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
The options list is crap here, our friends to the North can choose between many more options on the same car. AMG is not a variant, want 10° just check the box, 4.5° check that box. Yes you're still constrained on your wheels with 10° but there is a real world reason for that constraint. Want 4 seat configuration, yep. Want it without the entertainment package, sure. It goes on and on.
It's less than Germany but it's enough to give a guy a way to get the car he wants in the important details. I'd have been happy with that; that don't have to go full on Porsche style. Although I'd be even happier if they did.
Bottom line is we have a poor options list that has serious issues with some important options. AMG should not be a variant, it should be an option available everywhere. You shouldn't have to pick a massive bundle of options many people don't want or need to get 10° rear wheel. Not should you have to pick executive just to get seat functionally like heating and cooling in the rear seats. It's not just that you can get these things with Porsche; you can get them on the car I own at a dealership 100 miles away differentiated only by a line on a map.
It's less than Germany but it's enough to give a guy a way to get the car he wants in the important details. I'd have been happy with that; that don't have to go full on Porsche style. Although I'd be even happier if they did.
Bottom line is we have a poor options list that has serious issues with some important options. AMG should not be a variant, it should be an option available everywhere. You shouldn't have to pick a massive bundle of options many people don't want or need to get 10° rear wheel. Not should you have to pick executive just to get seat functionally like heating and cooling in the rear seats. It's not just that you can get these things with Porsche; you can get them on the car I own at a dealership 100 miles away differentiated only by a line on a map.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 508
From: Westchester, NY
2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
As it's been said, the Canada spec cars have more restrictions then initially meets the eye. The 10 degree rear steering is only on one 20 inch wheel option for example. Most options requre quite a few other lower spec options, including pretty much everything requiring you first select the premium package which is essentially standard in the USA. But, you can get 10 degree rear steering without massaging rear seats, or massaging rear seats without the additional screens, or 4 zone climate and AMG exterior, etc.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 1,481
23 S580 Executive
Configure the car the way you want on the Canadian site and you have many more options than we do: You can get closer to getting what you want and you get there with less of what you don't want.
The AMG option as a separate line was a huge blunder. The Executive package needs to be broken up. As I said; I'd prefer the German options. But in Canada I could have gotten close to what I wanted, much closer than I did in the US.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 508
From: Westchester, NY
2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
Yes, but you cant have 10 degree with luxury and the warmth and comfort doesn't include massage or 4 zone. Go exec to get these things and that means saying goodbye to AMG and hello to a lot of option most won't want, use, or need.
Configure the car the way you want on the Canadian site and you have many more options than we do: You can get closer to getting what you want and you get there with less of what you don't want.
The AMG option as a separate line was a huge blunder. The Executive package needs to be broken up. As I said; I'd prefer the German options. But in Canada I could have gotten close to what I wanted, much closer than I did in the US.
Configure the car the way you want on the Canadian site and you have many more options than we do: You can get closer to getting what you want and you get there with less of what you don't want.
The AMG option as a separate line was a huge blunder. The Executive package needs to be broken up. As I said; I'd prefer the German options. But in Canada I could have gotten close to what I wanted, much closer than I did in the US.
Member
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 99
Likes: 29
2023 S400D and 2007 C350
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 508
From: Westchester, NY
2014 Mercedes E350 4matic Wagon, 2018 Fiat 124 Spyder Lusso manual, 2005 Acura TSX manual
Mercedes-Benz Custom Order Program | Mercedes-Benz Columbus OH (mercedesbenzofeaston.com) if you don't have budget limit and your last 2 sentence doesn't make any sense.
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