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I've had a W12 Phaeton, fantastic car, I wasn't aware that the Continental was built in the same Dresden factory, well, since you're German obviously you always know better.....
The VW Phaeton was a really cool car not just because of how it looked, but it's reason for existence. That said, and to your point Lexus is to Toyota, Genesis is to Hyundai. The flip side is Rolls-Royce is to BMW as Bentley is to VW. Drive what you like.
Genesis won't do better if sales are any indication...
2022 US Sales
January 187
February 145
March 97
April 82
May 48
June 21
July 22
August 80
Maybe it will need to take some time for Genesis to build up the momentum?
BTW, do you happen to have the sales number for Lexus in its early years, for comparison purpose?
They sold 8k in the partial MY89 and over 60k in 90, the first full year. At that time they were selling the LS and the tarted up Camry, ES200 out whatever it was. Far better numbers than Genesis but at the time sedans were still popular. It's interesting to consider how well Lexus might do now if they started in this market.
They sold 8k in the partial MY89 and over 60k in 90, the first full year. At that time they were selling the LS and the tarted up Camry, ES200 out whatever it was. Far better numbers than Genesis but at the time sedans were still popular. It's interesting to consider how well Lexus might do now if they started in this market.
Instead of comparing the entire line of Lexus with Genesis, maybe, it is better just to compare early years' sales number between LS400 (competitor to W126 S-class) and Genesis G90 (also competitor to S-class).
I've had a W12 Phaeton, fantastic car, I wasn't aware that the Continental was built in the same Dresden factory, well, since you're German obviously you always know better.....
Never mind. I was actually wrong on the Continental. I know that there was Bentley production at the Dresden factory, but it was for the Flying Spur. Final assembly was in Crewe though.
Instead of comparing the entire line of Lexus with Genesis, maybe, it is better just to compare early years' sales number between LS400 (competitor to W126 S-class) and Genesis G90 (also competitor to S-class).
The LS was a hit very early on, outselling its competition in very little time by the early 90's, and despite the smaller lineup of vehicles, Lexus became the best selling luxury brand in the states by the year 2000.
Originally Posted by The Truth About Cars
In fact, when Lexus first outsold Mercedes-Benz and BMW on an annual basis, the LS was one of just three Lexus nameplates. Nearly 43,000 copies of the LS were sold in 1990, for example, at a time when BMW’s 7 Series did just a quarter of that volume; and with Mercedes-Benz some 17,000 units abaft.
One has to remember though, part of the reason the LS sold incredibly well was price. The LS400 started at $35,000 in 1990 when first released, a 300SE S-Class with a 6-cylinder was $52,950, A V8 420SEL was $62,500, and a 560SEL added another $10k on top of that. The BMW 7er of its time was of similar prices to the S. By '92, the LS400 was now $42k, but still a bargain compared to the new and overengineered, and overbudget, W140 which had an eye-watering starting price of almost $70k for a 300SE, a V8 400SE was $77k.
New foreign competition such as the LS, as well as a looming recession, overbudgeted development costs of the W140 totaling $1B+, and a struggle to profit, all accelerated MB into designing cars by a cost and market standard rather than engineering standards such as before.
Agree. Wish Genesis well; more competition is never bad. Genesis definitely gets enough good press but in the end the company needs to deliver a great experience throughout the ownership lifecycle if they want to compete in this finicky market. But brand cache plays a huge factor in this price segment.
The VW Phaeton was a dud, the Bentley Continental a huge success. Same parts bin, build in the same factory. Clearly the label had an influence (apart from many other factors of course)
It's been quite a while since I've posted on here, especially since for quite some time I stopped driving a Mercedes on a daily basis, but as you can see from my signature, I still have an older Mercedes and have had a long list of Mercedes cars throughout the years. Sadly, I had to get rid of my last GLE 63 AMG in 2018 in favor of a car when my then 93 year-old mom couldn't get up into it. At that time, I looked at replacing it with an S-550, but opted for a BMW 7-series instead, as at the time, the new W223 wasn't out yet, and getting a W222 would have left me with instant old model in about a year. Fast forward to 2021, and I was again looking at an S-class to replace the BMW, but couldn't get past the open laptop look of the center console on the W223. That's when I happened upon my first Genesis G90. I drove it and was amazed at how quiet and comfortable it was, and remember, my daily is a Rolls Royce. There was, of course, a big difference in the quality of the materials, but the workmanship was excellent and the paint work superb. I detail my own cars, so I knew every inch of the paint. I now have purchased a 2023 G90 and can give you a first-hand report. I've read most of the posts on here, and respect everyone's opinions. My last G90 had a naturally aspirated V8, which was quite smooth. The new one has a twin-turbo V6 with the electric supercharger. Although it has more pep than the V8 did, it's not as smooth and ever so slightly louder, but that's only at idle. While driving, the V6 provides more instantaneous power than the V8 did, unless I stomped on it, which is not how I normally drive. So, it's a trade-off. As far as the looks and interior fit and finish, I can say this: if you were to put a de-badged G90 next to its competitors from MB, BMW and Audi, equally de-badged, you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference and perhaps might even choose the G90 as the nicer option. Car manufacturers have to source their bits and pieces from a limited number of manufacturers and vendors. Things like the window glass come from a couple of major manufacturers, as I believe the leather for the seats and other components do as well. What affects our perception is the brand-name. If I source leather from one company and make two wallets out of the same leather, stamping one with a name-brand and the other with a "lesser" brand, the perception will always be that the name-brand is better, even though it's exactly the same leather. Such is the case with auto manufacturers. There are very obvious exceptions to this, and my example is simplistic, but in general, I think most of you would agree that I'm not far off the mark. Having said that, I feel that buying the G90 was a very good choice if I look at value for money. The car is quite beautiful (in my opinion, of course) and far prettier than its predecessor. I cannot say anything about the ride in comparison to the S-class because, sadly, there wasn't one available near me that I could drive before going to buy the G90. However, I would venture to say that the ride characteristics would be similar, based on the air suspension and 4-wheel steering they both have. I absolutely love the automatic doors, which I got used to using on the Rolls, and the electronics are very good and simple to use. There was a time when I would never dream of seeing myself in anything other than a Mercedes, but as I aged, I got a somewhat different perspective that lost some of its brand snobbery. I still feel that MB makes some of the best cars in the world, and perhaps one day I will see myself in a new one again, but for the time being, the G90 will serve as my alternate daily driver. For those of you who have read this far, I appreciate your time.
It's been quite a while since I've posted on here, especially since for quite some time I stopped driving a Mercedes on a daily basis, but as you can see from my signature, I still have an older Mercedes and have had a long list of Mercedes cars throughout the years. Sadly, I had to get rid of my last GLE 63 AMG in 2018 in favor of a car when my then 93 year-old mom couldn't get up into it. At that time, I looked at replacing it with an S-550, but opted for a BMW 7-series instead, as at the time, the new W223 wasn't out yet, and getting a W222 would have left me with instant old model in about a year. Fast forward to 2021, and I was again looking at an S-class to replace the BMW, but couldn't get past the open laptop look of the center console on the W223. That's when I happened upon my first Genesis G90. I drove it and was amazed at how quiet and comfortable it was, and remember, my daily is a Rolls Royce. There was, of course, a big difference in the quality of the materials, but the workmanship was excellent and the paint work superb. I detail my own cars, so I knew every inch of the paint. I now have purchased a 2023 G90 and can give you a first-hand report. I've read most of the posts on here, and respect everyone's opinions. My last G90 had a naturally aspirated V8, which was quite smooth. The new one has a twin-turbo V6 with the electric supercharger. Although it has more pep than the V8 did, it's not as smooth and ever so slightly louder, but that's only at idle. While driving, the V6 provides more instantaneous power than the V8 did, unless I stomped on it, which is not how I normally drive. So, it's a trade-off. As far as the looks and interior fit and finish, I can say this: if you were to put a de-badged G90 next to its competitors from MB, BMW and Audi, equally de-badged, you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference and perhaps might even choose the G90 as the nicer option. Car manufacturers have to source their bits and pieces from a limited number of manufacturers and vendors. Things like the window glass come from a couple of major manufacturers, as I believe the leather for the seats and other components do as well. What affects our perception is the brand-name. If I source leather from one company and make two wallets out of the same leather, stamping one with a name-brand and the other with a "lesser" brand, the perception will always be that the name-brand is better, even though it's exactly the same leather. Such is the case with auto manufacturers. There are very obvious exceptions to this, and my example is simplistic, but in general, I think most of you would agree that I'm not far off the mark. Having said that, I feel that buying the G90 was a very good choice if I look at value for money. The car is quite beautiful (in my opinion, of course) and far prettier than its predecessor. I cannot say anything about the ride in comparison to the S-class because, sadly, there wasn't one available near me that I could drive before going to buy the G90. However, I would venture to say that the ride characteristics would be similar, based on the air suspension and 4-wheel steering they both have. I absolutely love the automatic doors, which I got used to using on the Rolls, and the electronics are very good and simple to use. There was a time when I would never dream of seeing myself in anything other than a Mercedes, but as I aged, I got a somewhat different perspective that lost some of its brand snobbery. I still feel that MB makes some of the best cars in the world, and perhaps one day I will see myself in a new one again, but for the time being, the G90 will serve as my alternate daily driver. For those of you who have read this far, I appreciate your time.
Wow, going from a RR to a 90 must be very humbling
Wow, going from a RR to a 90 must be very humbling
There's nothing humbling about it. I'm proud of my G90. It's a beautiful, comfortable car, and it saves me the worry of parking my Rolls at Home Depot. I drive the Wraith (14,000 miles) on weekends and at other times when I feel like it, or I drive my CLK cabriolet (38,000 miles). All my vehicles look like they were bought yesterday, so there's nothing to be ashamed about.
There's nothing humbling about it. I'm proud of my G90. It's a beautiful, comfortable car, and it saves me the worry of parking my Rolls at Home Depot. I drive the Wraith (14,000 miles) on weekends and at other times when I feel like it, or I drive my CLK cabriolet (38,000 miles). All my vehicles look like they were bought yesterday, so there's nothing to be ashamed about.
Nice low miles.....I said humbling, not ashamed. I suppose one could interpret that a number of ways. When I had more cars than kids I'd save my AMG for the weekends....Pcars and the other Benzes for DD'ing Now instead of wasting money on cars (just my opinion) I prefer to put all that money towards my kids and their development/futures. I know a lot of guys here are older/more established that me
Nice low miles.....I said humbling, not ashamed. I suppose one could interpret that a number of ways. When I had more cars than kids I'd save my AMG for the weekends....Pcars and the other Benzes for DD'ing Now instead of wasting money on cars (just my opinion) I prefer to put all that money towards my kids and their development/futures. I know a lot of guys here are older/more established that me
I should have written "humbled" instead of ashamed. I certainly was not offended, nor did I take your comment the wrong way. In fact, I appreciate it. I suppose I don't see the G90 or any other luxury vehicle that's not a RR as inferior. Everyone has what they like and/or can afford. In my case, I happen to like extremely quiet, smooth cars. What I'm keenly aware of is that one must have another car for when showing up in a RR is not wise or acceptable. In a way, I prefer to fly under the radar.
With regards to your spending, you're wise to invest your money on your kids' development and future. That's one of the reasons I bought this G90 and not something more expensive that would serve the same purpose. The older one gets-- and I'm not that old-- the wiser one becomes about what is truly worth spending money and energy on, and what is not. All the best to you!
Wow, going from a RR to a 90 must be very humbling
Personally, I don't find driving any car "humbling". I just don't care what people think about what I drive. I drive what I like to drive and what makes me happy.
Originally Posted by neodoc
I should have written "humbled" instead of ashamed. I certainly was not offended, nor did I take your comment the wrong way. In fact, I appreciate it. I suppose I don't see the G90 or any other luxury vehicle that's not a RR as inferior. Everyone has what they like and/or can afford. In my case, I happen to like extremely quiet, smooth cars. What I'm keenly aware of is that one must have another car for when showing up in a RR is not wise or acceptable. In a way, I prefer to fly under the radar.
With regards to your spending, you're wise to invest your money on your kids' development and future. That's one of the reasons I bought this G90 and not something more expensive that would serve the same purpose. The older one gets-- and I'm not that old-- the wiser one becomes about what is truly worth spending money and energy on, and what is not. All the best to you!
I prefer to fly under the radar to a certain extent too. I like a car that telegraphs that I'm successful and legitimate, but honestly my S Class makes me uncomfortable sometimes because of the attention it gets. I was happier with my LS460s in that regard.
As for the spending, I get it too...hence why I have said that I don't know that I will get another S Class, as much as I enjoy this one. This Genesis for $40,000 less is appealing.
There's nothing humbling about it. I'm proud of my G90. It's a beautiful, comfortable car, and it saves me the worry of parking my Rolls at Home Depot. I drive the Wraith (14,000 miles) on weekends and at other times when I feel like it, or I drive my CLK cabriolet (38,000 miles). All my vehicles look like they were bought yesterday, so there's nothing to be ashamed about.
That Wraith is truly something. Totally in a league of it's own.
Someone bailed out on their new G90 order and I was somewhere on the list behind them but unfortunately was one too far down the list.
I spent time in the car which was the exact colors as shown above and there are no shortcomings in material or craftsmanship. It is a big in your face car that is impressive. I don't like white interiors but leather quality was good and there was no creeking or cheapness.
I get the MB loyalty which I no longer have but honestly without any badges on the cars I would take the G90. Only shortcoming is the missing V8 but that is going to be the new norm anyway.
I just don't think there is any car on the road at that price point that has the road presence of the Genisis. MB has watered down its brand by making their lower models look identical to the S. Add to that the amount of lower end cars they sell and to me it has lost its way.
As far as dealer experience to me Genisis come and get the car and give me another G90 for service is exactly what I want. Who wants to go to a dealer for service?
Low sales numbers? I actually prefer that as it make the car more special vs one on every corner.
Yesterday, I was invited by a local dealer to drive the brand new, 2023 Genesis G90. I drove their top line model with the supercharged V6. Honestly, I came prepared to really be turned off, but the car is pretty amazing.
Back in 2017, Genesis loaned me a G90 for a two day test drive. There were several things that were a turn-off about that car, enough for me to not consider it a contender in the luxury sedan category. This new car is light years better.
The car drives amazingly well, with plenty of pep from the 409hp twin-turbo V6 with an electric supercharger. I would call the propulsion “buttery,” being extremely smooth. Transmission shifts are almost imperceptible.
Ride quality was superb, which was truly amazing, since the car rode on 21” wheels, which are standard on this model. I drove on the freeway and then on some fairly rough surface streets and I was very impressed with the comfort. The wheel design, to my way of thinking, is overly busy and should I ever end up with one of these cars, I’d probably swap out the wheels first thing, hopefully for something smaller in diameter and of a less fussy design. Unfortunately, Genesis provides no spare, but provides a “TireFit” kit. Kudos to Genesis for providing Michelin tires, where one might expect to see the Hankooks that MB saddled me with on my S580.
Genesis has also found it necessary to copy other brands by going with pop-out door handles and an all glass, pano-style roof. How I could have done without either of those!
The massage seats are infinitely better than in my S580. The adjustable pressure is significantly firmer and deeper, while being absolutely silent. I find the “popping” sound made in my S580 to be irritating and have always felt that the pressure was lacking.
Believe it or not, the doors have electric closers with buttons on the door panel and on the center console. Touch the button and the door closes. No stretching to reach the door. Why MB didn’t do this on the W223 is just beyond me. Well done Genesis.
The upgraded Bang & Olufsen sound system seems to rival the 4D in my S580 and is standard in the supercharged model. With 1700 watts & 23 speakers, it’s no wonder why.
Most all features have buttons & switches in addition to the touchscreen controls and the dash layout is much more traditional than the W223. I like it.
The wood trim in the cabin is dull and reasonably ugly. The fact that it really isn’t all that noticeable is a good thing. Even though the interior is very well done, it does not compare with the Exclusive Nappa W223 option. Genesis needs to work on this. The interior could be more attractive. And, just to show that they can be as stupid as MB, the cream color interior has near white, cream colored carpeting, which is insane and completely impractical.
In summing up, right at $100K MSRP, the car is a bargain, in my opinion. I need to drive one for a few hours to really make up my mind as to how good it really is, but based on my 15 minute test drive, I am very impressed. With this new car, I truly believe the new G90 to be a player in the MB, BMW, Audi luxury sedan segment.
I was driving next to one in extended traffic so I got to look at it throughly and I really didn’t like the back-end the way it sticks out so far behind the wheel and just looks like a big black mass (the one I was looking at was black).
I think the G80 is the perfect Genesis car. Proportions are just perfect and it’s quick and comfortable. Honestly better than the current E Class save for an E63S with its wide body and imposing rims and tires.
I happened to stop at our local Hyundai/Genesis dealership yesterday. Sadly, there were only 2 G70 sedans in stock. I didn’t ask about the G90, but I’d like the opportunity to drive and see one.
I have a Tesla now which isn’t traditionally luxurious to drive, but is rewarding in other ways. The rewards make it difficult to return to driving a non-electric vehicle.
I happened to stop at our local Hyundai/Genesis dealership yesterday. Sadly, there were only 2 G70 sedans in stock. I didn’t ask about the G90, but I’d like the opportunity to drive and see one.
I have a Tesla now which isn’t traditionally luxurious to drive, but is rewarding in other ways. The rewards make it difficult to return to driving a non-electric vehicle.
09-04-2022, 03:53 PM
