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We have a SUV and I couldn't care less for ground clearance. Never needed it nor am I going off-roading. The tires are useless for that nor is the 4matic very capable for that. A higher seating position is not useful in a sea of SUV's either. You just leveled up to the SUV's around you
And I'd rather not speculate why people love SUV's these days.
Then why did you buy it?
Like crabman said we don’t have to speculate, survey information is all over the place and it’s a fact that buyers list the high seating position as one of their main reasons for choosing an SUV. It’s for both visibility and ease of entry and exit.
The argument that a high seating position has no benefit because there are a lot of SUVs makes no sense, it means that the low seating position of a sedan is all the more problematic.
I have to think about the ground clearance of the sedan multiple times a day, every time I park because the chin of the S Class is lower than every parking curb here. In fact I have to back in because you can’t pull in far enough to get the whole car in the space. AWD is less of an issue because my sedan is AWD, but I do travel places in the winter where there can be heavy snow and the ground clearance would make that travel less stressful.
4 Matic is plenty capable for any off-roading one would do with a high end Mercedes.
Like crabman said we don’t have to speculate, survey information is all over the place and it’s a fact that buyers list the high seating position as one of their main reasons for choosing an SUV. It’s for both visibility and ease of entry and exit.
The argument that a high seating position has no benefit because there are a lot of SUVs makes no sense, it means that the low seating position of a sedan is all the more problematic.
I have to think about the ground clearance of the sedan multiple times a day, every time I park because the chin of the S Class is lower than every parking curb here. In fact I have to back in because you can’t pull in far enough to get the whole car in the space. AWD is less of an issue because my sedan is AWD, but I do travel places in the winter where there can be heavy snow and the ground clearance would make that travel less stressful.
4 Matic is plenty capable for any off-roading one would do with a high end Mercedes.
We got the SUV as a runaround car and for errands for the business. The GLE due to its cargo volume. But they drive like crap and a E-Class Wagon would have been a better choice. They drive better, have lower fuel consumption, are easier to load and are more practical.
We have driven S-Class models for over 25 years including a W222, yet I have never considered ground clearance to be relevant for a car besides being to high and lowering them. But then we have normal streets where this isn't an issue.
As for lower seating position, if you ever drive a performance car, the lower, the better.
Of course I would love to hear about your extensive experience off-roading with a 4Matic MB.
We got a SUV and a runaround car and for errands for the business. The GLE due to its cargo volume. But they drive like crap and a E-Class Wagon would have been a better choice. They drive better, have lower fuel consumption, are easier to load and are more practical.
A GLE or GLS does not drive like crap lol, especially a GLE with air suspension. I haven't driven an E Class wagon but I have driven several E Class sedans and hate them, they're stiff and loud and cramped inside. Not for me. Honestly I prefer the Lexus ESs I drove years ago.
We have driven S-Class models for over 25 years including a W222, yet I have never considered ground clearance to be relevant for a car besides being to high and lowering them. But then we have normal streets where this isn't an issue.
As for lower seating position, if you ever drive a performance car, the lower, the better.
I don't like performance cars, so lower isn't better for me. I like the high seating position and more open greenhouse.
As for ground clearance, it depends on where you live. here we have high parking curbs and a fair number of steep driveway aprons etc. I encounter a driveway every once and a while I have to leave the car at the bottom of the driveway and walk up.
Of course I would love to hear about your extensive experience off-roading with a 4Matic MB.
Just as soon as you share yours which leads you to make a statement that they aren't good offroad.
It depends on what kind of offroading you're going to be doing. For me (and I suspect most people) it would be a rutted gravel trail, a tall grassy hill, deep snow, etc. 4Matic is more than capable.
Ever take your S Classes somewhere like this?
If you would like to see what one can do offroad though there are many many videos:
Higher is higher and it gives a sight line advantage, what that means to you is in your domain, but it isn't arguable. It would be like me saying a car that will go 3.5 to 60 isn't faster than my car because I don't care. Faster is faster just like higher is higher. Think about it: "Hey, let's get to lower ground because we don't want a sight line advantage!" was said by no commander, ever.
We don't have to guess why people like SUVs; you can read the surveys yourself. You're going to see versatility, cargo capacity, higher ride height giving a better view of the road and allowing easier ingress and egress, larger is often equated with safety and it's on most lists. I can say this because I just looked, I didn't need to look it up, I mean c'mon, you know the reasons people buy them. We all know. I had forgot towing BTW but that's also a use case for some people.
The 4 wheeling comment is a logical fallacy; no one mentioned it.
I guess my meaning as to why people buy more SUV's was lost; which is fine. The SUV craze has been going on for decades, nothing new here. That said, I am not a fan of SUV's.
With rare exception the drive dynamics are worse due to the higher center of gravity and to my eye they are simply not good looking. In practical terms I also don't care for very inattentive and distracted people driving 5000 - 6000 lbs trucks in traffic.
As for the 4 wheeling comment, it is logical when discussing ground clearance; the only time when it actually matters.
A GLE or GLS does not drive like crap lol, especially a GLE with air suspension. I haven't driven an E Class wagon but I have driven several E Class sedans and hate them, they're stiff and loud and cramped inside. Not for me. Honestly I prefer the Lexus ESs I drove years ago.
I don't like performance cars, so lower isn't better for me. I like the high seating position and more open greenhouse.
As for ground clearance, it depends on where you live. here we have high parking curbs and a fair number of steep driveway aprons etc. I encounter a driveway every once and a while I have to leave the car at the bottom of the driveway and walk up.
Just as soon as you share yours which leads you to make a statement that they aren't good offroad.
It depends on what kind of offroading you're going to be doing. For me (and I suspect most people) it would be a rutted gravel trail, a tall grassy hill, deep snow, etc. 4Matic is more than capable.
Ever take your S Classes somewhere like this?
If you would like to see what one can do offroad though there are many many videos:
We differ with our preferences and driving styles, but I have to admit it is quite tiring to see you ignore actual owner experiences over some youtube videos or one of your "extensive" test drives. We only had MB SUV's since 2000...
And no, I would not use a S-Class on a road like this...
I guess my meaning as to why people buy more SUV's was lost; which is fine. The SUV craze has been going on for decades, nothing new here. That said, I am not a fan of SUV's.
With rare exception the drive dynamics are worse due to the higher center of gravity and to my eye they are simply not good looking. In practical terms I also don't care for very inattentive and distracted people driving 5000 - 6000 lbs trucks in traffic.
As for the 4 wheeling comment, it is logical when discussing ground clearance; the only time when it actually matters.
I prefer driving low in my AMG E63s Wagon. But if lived in DMV or NYC with crappy roads would upgrade to the smooth riding S-Class like @SW20S Only buy SUVs for the wife and kids who don't embrace my driving passion. In my last career drove Tractor Trailers on and off-road in the Permian Basin Oilfields for 14-hours a Day which is why driving AMG Wagon from DFW to ATL is so easy in 12-hours!
If I hit the Lottery need to add this vehicle to my Toolbox along with that GT Black Series at Mercedes-Benz of Athens:
I guess my meaning as to why people buy more SUV's was lost; which is fine. The SUV craze has been going on for decades, nothing new here. That said, I am not a fan of SUV's.
With rare exception the drive dynamics are worse due to the higher center of gravity and to my eye they are simply not good looking. In practical terms I also don't care for very inattentive and distracted people driving 5000 - 6000 lbs trucks in traffic.
As for the 4 wheeling comment, it is logical when discussing ground clearance; the only time when it actually matters.
You can say ground clearance only matters when 4 wheeling all you want but it just isn't true. May be true where you live but not where I live and not everywhere. Here is the underside of my front bumper to prove it:
We all have our preferences but its undeniable that most buyers now prefer SUVs and crossovers, sales figures show that as now more than 50% of vehicles sold are SUVs and trucks. Its also growing, sales of SUVs and Crossovers make up more and more market share with each passing year.
So like it or not, lots and lots of people buy SUVs and we have our reasons why we like them. In a perfect world I would have both in the family, but my wife insists on a minivan so that means if I want an SUV in the family its got to be what I drive.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
We differ with our preferences and driving styles, but I have to admit it is quite tiring to see you ignore actual owner experiences over some youtube videos or one of your "extensive" test drives. We only had MB SUV's since 2000...
And no, I would not use a S-Class on a road like this...
You mean like when you ignore my experiences about ground clearance etc? Got it. Please share with us when you have been offroading in your MB SUVs and found the 4Matic to not be up to what you need it to do? Since you made the statement that it wasn't offroad worthy, you must have a great firsthand example. I haven't owned an MB SUV but I have owned many SUVs in my life, and I have been offroad with SUVs with very similar AWD setups to 4Matic. Have you?
My opinions are every bit as relevant as yours or anyone else's.
Using an S Class on a road like that, well I do drive on roads like that several times a year...hence why I consider a luxury SUV over a sedan when I do trade cars. Eventually I will probably cave and make that change.
You can say ground clearance only matters when 4 wheeling all you want but it just isn't true. May be true where you live but not where I live and not everywhere. Here is the underside of my front bumper to prove it:
We all have our preferences but its undeniable that most buyers now prefer SUVs and crossovers, sales figures show that as now more than 50% of vehicles sold are SUVs and trucks. Its also growing, sales of SUVs and Crossovers make up more and more market share with each passing year.
So like it or not, lots and lots of people buy SUVs and we have our reasons why we like them. In a perfect world I would have both in the family, but my wife insists on a minivan so that means if I want an SUV in the family its got to be what I drive.
You mean like when you ignore my experiences about ground clearance etc? Got it. Please share with us when you have been offroading in your MB SUVs and found the 4Matic to not be up to what you need it to do? Since you made the statement that it wasn't offroad worthy, you must have a great firsthand example. I haven't owned an MB SUV but I have owned many SUVs in my life, and I have been offroad with SUVs with very similar AWD setups to 4Matic. Have you?
My opinions are every bit as relevant as yours or anyone else's.
Using an S Class on a road like that, well I do drive on roads like that several times a year...hence why I consider a luxury SUV over a sedan when I do trade cars. Eventually I will probably cave and make that change.
Sorry to say but there is no way your test drive experiences are anywhere as relevant as those who drive these cars over years in a variety of situations. Wishful thinking on your end IMO.
Re. my off-road experiences, I don't do that for sport. They were necessitated by weather and traffic and weren't successful. This was likely due to the standard all season tires that these cars have. All were during snowy weather of which we have 5 months a year. I got stuck on a light hill in wet weather and a friend's G-Wagon pulled us out. Their locking differential made the difference here. Granted, a 4Matic with the optional off-road pack, the under guard and proper tires will fare much better but most will not have those options.
Have I been off-road elsewhere? Not really. Landrover used to invite us to special off-road tracks they built to demo the extreme capabilities of their Range Rovers. Other than that a couple of bone breaking weeks in a 1960's Land Rover in the Masai Mara, Kenya. Oh, and living in the Swiss mountains using a crappy Ford Bronco
I guess my meaning as to why people buy more SUV's was lost; which is fine. The SUV craze has been going on for decades, nothing new here. That said, I am not a fan of SUV's.
With rare exception the drive dynamics are worse due to the higher center of gravity and to my eye they are simply not good looking. In practical terms I also don't care for very inattentive and distracted people driving 5000 - 6000 lbs trucks in traffic.
As for the 4 wheeling comment, it is logical when discussing ground clearance; the only time when it actually matters.
No, I get it but it has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that there are reasons people like SUVs that don't involve stupidity.
I agree with you in that they're not great to drive. I tried the go-fast thing because I had hoped that it was an answer, but it didn't work for me. Less comfortable, and no substitute for a car. No, my like for them lies in the fact that more than any other vehicle type they say yes, I've got your back, we can do it. I like things that work with me even if the work at hand is just for futzing around town.
As for 5 or 6k SUVs the S Class weighs what, 4800? I don't remember but I know it's up there somewhere. How much does your average EV weigh, north of 5k right? But again, you're making arguments that have nothing to do with what I said in my posts, which were about why people like them. Nor did I mention inattentive drivers who are in all cars, of all weights, which kinda takes the meat out of that statement. Same with ground clearance, I don't go wheeling and a little snow or the occasional muddy dirt road is as tough as it gets for mine, which is why I never brought it up.
To be clear I agree with a lot of what you're saying and the same is true with Superswiss and his comments. Despite that, there is no denying that people have had more than enough time to own them, figure out that they were better off with a car, and trade back. For the most part they aren't doing that and there is a reason: Love it or hate it, whether it started as a craze or not, people are buying them in ever-increasing numbers because they've figured out they like them.
Sorry to say but there is no way your test drive experiences are anywhere as relevant as those who drive these cars over years in a variety of situations. Wishful thinking on your end IMO.
Not sure where I said that they were. I can however drive two cars and know whether I like how they drive or not. I've been driving large luxury sedans for a long time, I can drive a big SUV like a GLS or a Range Rover and compare and contrast how it drives compared to what I have. I can put 150 miles on a rental E Class and come away with a feel for how it drives. I have not had an MB SUV but I have had SUVs, in fact I had two Grand Cherokees which were on an MB derived platform. MB SUVs are more carlike than them...and when I had to trade the last one in on a minivan when our kids were born I ALMOST traded the Lexus GS350 sedan I had on the time and kept the Jeep instead.
Re. my off-road experiences, I don't do that for sport. They were necessitated by weather and traffic and weren't successful. This was likely due to the standard all season tires that these cars have. All were during snowy weather of which we have 5 months a year. I got stuck on a light hill in wet weather and a friend's G-Wagon pulled us out. Their locking differential made the difference here. Granted, a 4Matic with the optional off-road pack, the under guard and proper tires will fare much better but most will not have those options.
Tires make a huge difference, driving ability makes a big difference too. I have never been stuck in the snow in a sedan with AWD, and I always run allseason tires. How cold was it? That makes a big difference with allseason tires. 4 Matic is an excellent AWD system for snow use, as is Lexus' RWD base AWD used in their sedans which is very similar. What holds my S560 back in the snow are the wide rear tires.
Have I been off-road elsewhere? Not really.
have been offroad in multiple SUVs including SUVs with rear biased AWD systems like 4 Matic without a locking center diff, I'm very confident an MB SUV with 4 Matic would do anything I personally would ask it to do offroad. Even on SUVs I have had with a locking center diff I have never needed to lock it. We're not talking about serious offroading, we're talking about places like the picture I posted, but with an SUV I could go farther, it gets really rocky beyond there, too much for the S Class. Another example is a cabin I like to rent in WV, issue is it has a very steep rutted gravel driveway that is impassible in anything without 4WD, the S Class would get up it but it doesn't have the ground clearance.
Landrover used to invite us to special off-road tracks they built to demo the extreme capabilities of their Range Rovers. Other than that a couple of bone breaking weeks in a 1960's Land Rover in the Masai Mara, Kenya. Oh, and living in the Swiss mountains using a crappy Ford Bronco
No, I get it but it has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that there are reasons people like SUVs that don't involve stupidity.
I agree with you in that they're not great to drive. I tried the go-fast thing because I had hoped that it was an answer, but it didn't work for me. Less comfortable, and no substitute for a car. No, my like for them lies in the fact that more than any other vehicle type they say yes, I've got your back, we can do it. I like things that work with me even if the work at hand is just for futzing around town.
As for 5 or 6k SUVs the S Class weighs what, 4800? I don't remember but I know it's up there somewhere. How much does your average EV weigh, north of 5k right? But again, you're making arguments that have nothing to do with what I said in my posts, which were about why people like them. Nor did I mention inattentive drivers who are in all cars, of all weights, which kinda takes the meat out of that statement. Same with ground clearance, I don't go wheeling and a little snow or the occasional muddy dirt road is as tough as it gets for mine, which is why I never brought it up.
To be clear I agree with a lot of what you're saying and the same is true with Superswiss and his comments. Despite that, there is no denying that people have had more than enough time to own them, figure out that they were better off with a car, and trade back. For the most part they aren't doing that and there is a reason: Love it or hate it, whether it started as a craze or not, people are buying them in ever-increasing numbers because they've figured out they like them.
Exactly. Of course there is a tradeoff, but as high end luxury crossovers become better and better engineered that gap narrows. If you're somebody like me that just likes to drive in comfort and confidence, the tradeoff isn't all that much nowadays, and lets me honest...most drivers are more like me. If people didn't like SUVs, they wouldn't buy them.
I read a survey a while back of SUV drivers, and when asked if they would go back to a car 95% of them said no.
This is an interesting video I watched a while back from a guy who is a long term S Class owner who has both now comparing and contrasting them. He's pretty frank in his assessments. In the end? He's trading the S Class and keeping the GLS because it is so close:
No, I get it but it has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that there are reasons people like SUVs that don't involve stupidity.
I agree with you in that they're not great to drive. I tried the go-fast thing because I had hoped that it was an answer, but it didn't work for me. Less comfortable, and no substitute for a car. No, my like for them lies in the fact that more than any other vehicle type they say yes, I've got your back, we can do it. I like things that work with me even if the work at hand is just for futzing around town.
As for 5 or 6k SUVs the S Class weighs what, 4800? I don't remember but I know it's up there somewhere. How much does your average EV weigh, north of 5k right? But again, you're making arguments that have nothing to do with what I said in my posts, which were about why people like them. Nor did I mention inattentive drivers who are in all cars, of all weights, which kinda takes the meat out of that statement. Same with ground clearance, I don't go wheeling and a little snow or the occasional muddy dirt road is as tough as it gets for mine, which is why I never brought it up.
To be clear I agree with a lot of what you're saying and the same is true with Superswiss and his comments. Despite that, there is no denying that people have had more than enough time to own them, figure out that they were better off with a car, and trade back. For the most part they aren't doing that and there is a reason: Love it or hate it, whether it started as a craze or not, people are buying them in ever-increasing numbers because they've figured out they like them.
I only meant to respond to one line of one of your quotes; I agree with many of your comments.
This thread moved from raising the S-Class to SUV's so posts are all over (including mine). I agree that SUV's are wildly popular and am frustrated that we are losing coupes and convertibles to ugly boxes when manufacturers can't justify the investment in those cars anymore. Same for EV's. I would get a EV coupe or convertible but the best we get are 4 door coupes...
Yes, sedans are getting heavier and EV's easily clip the 5000lbs mark. The hummer of course takes the cake at over 9,000lbs.
Yeah, complete agreement on the loss of so many beautiful cars. I just drove a Fiat yesterday, a stick, no power windows, don't think it had 100 hp. In fact I'm not sure if it could get close enough to 100 hp to throw a rock at it. But it had character, and I miss that. Don't know why I'm bringing it up now, it just hit me when you mentioned losing coupes and verts. I suppose I'm just a stupid old man.
WOW - so much good information here. It's a great community and endless pool of knowlegde !!
I like the TRANSPORT mode idea the best. Am looking into it.
99.9% of the time the S class is rock solid, even on dirt and gravel roads. Having that plush soft ride and reliability of the S class for those long miles is perfect.
For that 0.01% of the time, where even another inch goes a long way - Transport mode seems a perfect solution - - FOR MY NEEDS.
Here is a short video of my old S222 going down a very narrow rocky trail in Big Bend park. Was not easy - but the S class joined the 4runners, Rubikons and Landrovers at the bottom in the parking lot.
I believe transport mode only stays engaged up to 20 MPH or so and probably completely max's out the the suspension travel, but could be enough to get you thru a low stream crossing, some deeper snow or a flat-bed transport without under carriage damage.
I also recall there being some MB service "wedges" available on earlier Air-Matic vehicles to keep the vehicle raised in the event of a loss of air pressure. You would literally jam these wedges in between the control arms
Last edited by Sleeper Benz; Dec 16, 2023 at 08:29 AM.
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