Yep; get the sales price down, and you reduce the monthly payments, lower your capitalized costs, depreciation, can possibly improve the money factor and mileage terms, give yourself a better equity position if you decide to buy out at the end, and reduce your up front cap costs if you have them. To say nothing of the satisfaction of gaining a small win in a world filled with *****slaps, seemingly, from every direction.

I think some guys here are doing pretty well, and saving a thousand or two over a couple of years, versus the pain of negotiating with scummy dealerships, is a worthy trade-off. I say bravo, more power to ya. I mean that sincerely. But for a lot of us, saving some ching is worth investing an hour or so trying for a better price, and doesn't have much downside.

Were I making this choice, I would definitely try and determine what was on the table, and proceed from there.

 

I would try and negotiate a better deal too, but with so much energy and time invested in selecting, ordering and waiting for this car I wouldn't refuse delivery

 

Problem is the a/c issue might be a dealbreaker for him.

 

Frankly I would have satisfied that concern before I went down this rabbit hole. Plenty of 7s out there to drive, you can rent them...

 

To be fair he did test drive it and not a fan of the HVAC performance.

 

Then I wouldn't have ordered the car if that was a big deal to me. I just can't imagine waiting all this time and still being unsure if I'm going to take the car when it comes in...

 

I guess he is waiting for the facelift and see if it improves things, not sure. Perhaps he only read about the climate control issues and now the stop sale only recently insetad when he ordered the car back then?

 

His money, his call. I still think the common sense answer is to see what may be on the table and then decide based on a realistic estimate of what's in play versus the hassle. If you're cooling off on a buy and just need the right excuse to walk it all works out anyway.

There is no loss in doing your due diligence even if you just gain peace of mind by knowing you looked, and it wasn't worth renegotiating.

 

True. For now, from his other thread he is waiting for the stop sale to lift, at least. Maybe he wants to try it after all but the stop sale isn't helping him with inspiring confidence.

 

Difficult to unpack the nonsense. Technically there is no argument that an electric motor is far superior to an ICE engine. Simple, far more powerful if compared by size and weight, scalable at that with linear power delivery and full torque throughout the power band. It outperforms an ICE engine in all areas. The lastest axial flux motors are about the size of a front brake rotor and pack almost 500hp motor with nearly 600ft/lbs or 800 NM of torque and only weighs 15lbs more than the rotor. Since it acts as a brake so you may not need the brake rotor anymore either... and it all fits inside each wheel.
The issue, as has been for the last hundred years or so, has been the battery and this is being addressed. Just like computers, phones and LED lighting, there is enough scale to improve the energy density, weight and charging speed and the tech is moving pretty fast.

EV's are also more dependable as a car. There is an argument due to charging infrastructure and range but we already see dramatic changes in charging speed and range so I think that discussion will be moot in time, especially if you have a home charger.

I for one love ICE's but don't care to go to gas stations or pay for overpriced fuel and will swap in a New York second for an EV that ticks the right boxes. The new AMG EV platform appears to be that one

 

The battery weight is a problem though and like you said, the infrastructure. Does EV depreciates quicker? Cost more to insure and easier to total because of damages that affect the integrity of the battery?

 

Here are my thoughst on this:
Weight: For a performance car enthusiast weight is a challenge. The new SL weights as much as the BMW M8 and both use tech to overcome physics. This works surprisingly well but lighter is better. The agility of the AMG GT roadster is an example of that (same weight as a 992 Turbo S). One really notices the difference. But it is a joke for a SUV driver to complain about the weight of an EV which are often lighter. A luxury car driver (S-Class, 7 Series, etc.) should have zero concerns or even notice a difference in weight. Extra tire costs but less service costs. It's a wash IMO. That said, weight is going down due to packaging and early stages of solid state batteries.
Depreciation: Any fast moving tech depreciates like a rock and nobody in their right mind should buy these cars right now. This is what lease are for and lease deals are excellent. Especially short-term leases can't be matched by ICE leases. Not sure where the downside for a driver would be. Likewise ICE leases are slowly returning to where they were pre-COVID when the financing arms of manufacturers ate the losses at lease-end.
Insurance: A tough one because I have seen numbers all over the place, no matter how the driver/accident record, credit rating, location looks like. I remember a forum discussion on Bimmerpost for the BMW M8 where others were quoted $3600 for 6 months while we were paying under $1000 a year . I have seen the same for EV's. Some dirt cheap rates for Teslas in MN.
Infrastructure: Frankly, the way EV tech works, driving in town is perfect. Where ICE's guzzle, EV's barely use any juice. Opposite at high speeds. I simply wouldn't use an EV for any road trips. Nobody on this forum is a single car household and one just uses an ICE for those long trips (which I can't even remember taking in the last 5 years). That said, I see a convergence over the next 2 years where EV's with much better range see a better but imperfect infrastructure in the US. Even Electrify America is becoming more trouble-free these days Europe already has over half a million charging points and it's less of an issue in many countries there.

 

Thanks for providing your insight.

 

Yeah, you can get amazing leases on a Lucid, for example, even at 18 months. Buy the same car, and you see your money halved in 2 years; isn't too hard to count those beans.

In the US an EV is a much easier buy if you charge at home the vast majority of the time. It takes away the charging issues almost completely, and you cut out the need to stop for fill ups. You have to score that a win so long as you fit into the charge at home demographic.

Sport is a different equation. There are very few light cars left. My somewhat arbitrary assessment of light is 3k or not much over; I cut off there because around that point the car stops feeling tossable, and you get more into the feel of physics being overcome by engineering. It's a hard thing to describe, but easy to feel in the car if you have experience driving lighter cars. This isn't a bar EVs can get over in the mainstream, but the same can be said of their ICE counterparts. My car for instance goes north of 5k and is actually heavier than that Lucid, despite not having a 100kw battery pack.

Something that may just be me is that I like the sound of an engine. A V8 particularly, because that's what I grew up with, but most engines anyway. Hearing that engine rap out while having fun is an integral part of the sport equation for me. The spaceship stuff in an EV doesn't give me the same thing.

It takes time for infrastructure to catch up to new tech. More time for people to warm up to what amounts to a new paradigm in how it fits into their lives. I don't see EVs going away, and I don't see ICE surviving as a dominant power choice. It's going to make less and less sense as the years go by.

 

I think we will see more EREV’s showing up as a transitional vehicle alongside Plug-in Hybrids (PHEV).

Those are extended range EV’s that use a gas engine strictly to charge the battery and runs only on electric motors…

 

2030(ish)

https://www.motor1.com/features/7327...ls-rumors/amp/

 

I ended up buying a brand new 2024 Audi S8. The engine power and the inherent qualities of dead-end interior qualities diverted me away from the BMW. I think the Audi S8 is the king of quality executive luxury automotive engineering.

 

Congratulations! Sure would love to see some photos.

 

I'm sure you've already seen the pictures. Every Audi looks like every other Audi...LOL

 

Well then, I guess nobody should be posting ANY photos of new cars, as they all look the same, right?

 

How much does everyone road trip that the capability of electric is a problem? Sedans in the S-Class price range have a minimum of 300 highway miles. The Lucid can do over 500 miles at 70 mph.

I’ve done probably 75k electric miles by now across several cars. If BMW / Mercedes / Lucid etc. gain access to the Superchargers as planned then you’ll be golden.

 

I don't disagree, but I would say that some of us old people chafe at the time it takes to stop and put gas in a car; there'll be no charging on the road for those that fit that description until the tech gets better.

This isn't me bashing EVs, I'm willing to lease now if someone gets it all in one package: The Lucid has enough range to cover my regular driving, even in winter, but has some real flaws like the software experience, unrealized features, etc. The i7 gets the lux and ride right, but misses on the front end styling and some interior bits. The EQS has most of the problems of the S class, and adds in the rather unfortunate resemblance to a half melted bar of soap. The latter 2 also fail to cover my range. I could go on here, but the idea is as soon as someone nails it, I'm going to sample one. For now, nothing has quite checked all the boxes.

 

My issue is where I travel. I travel to rural WV on a regular basis and there aren't many non-Tesla charging options. Once MB/BMW etc have access to Tesla chargers that will improve a lot. I don't have an issue stopping for 25 min, I just don't want to have the stress of worrying about where I can stop

 

Not BMW...nobody does UGLY like that!!

 

Ok, I admit it: I laughed.