I'm a bit surprised, actually, that there hasn't been an in depth discussion about bitrate. I will just politely state that I am seriously disappointed with the regular Burmester system but am seriously impressed with the Burmester 4D option. I don't want to debate audio systems because that never ends well; however, I'd be remiss to point out that high bitrate songs matter.

I can't personally speak to MBUX versus say, Apple Music or whatnot, but most streaming services will default to a pretty poor audio quality, say 128 or 3xx kbps. This is way too low for our cars (garbage in garbage out!). I religiously use Tidal to max out bitrate. Also, avoid bluetooth pairing. Compression algos aside, Bluetooth bandwidth is subpar. Most people aren't aware that Android Auto wired versus wireless can pump out the same bitrate (it uses the hotspot for audio streaming so it has plenty of bandwidth).

Just from a systems e, I'll politely argue that I don't think this is MBUX versus "streaming service A". This is a matter of bitrate being used as the source/music file. I tend to max mine out ~1500kbps if I can, but the reality is all of the highest end audio systems in cars, including Burmester 4D, Mark Levinson, Bang and Olufsen 3D Advanced sound system will eventually downrate above ~1500kbps because none of us have the hearing to be able to pick out a mouse scurrying across the floor in a concert...because in a car there is wind noise, etc.

However, the difference between your good old Spotify streaming option and "max" bitrate is massive. Just be careful if you are data limited. I don't drive much but even then I'm burning through 30gb a month of data due to high fidelity streaming. I could save it, but what fun would it be if I'm not trying to break cell phone towers

Re: Apple Carplay. I don't know enough about how audio streaming works with CarPlay but I wonder if it's streaming music through bluetooth and it's using some subpar compression ratio? If not and it works like Android Auto, then it makes me believe MBUX might have some sort of audio manipulation to shape a profile.

But in any event, just ensure you're maxing out your bitrate for music streaming. Whatever audio codec it runs through is beyond your control, but make sure it's "beautiful music in"!

The real question is "what is Dolby Atmos"? Dolby Atmos is an audio quality standard, sure, but it's also something that is artificially shaped. For example, Dolby Atmos can be had on a cell phone...and it's all fake. The naming convention is absolutely terrible, sadly. If you're saying Dolby Atmos as a source on say Tidal, I'm inclined to believe it's the real deal. I seem to recall the 4D Burmesters can play Dolby Atmos then at which point it's great music in, great music out. However, if the audio system itself does't support Atmos, then it's downsampled.

There's no real harm in downsampling. It's just wasted data. but when the source in is < than the audio system can handle, then that's just leftover "money" on the table

 

Same. I had the Burmester High-End 3D in my former W222, and compared to standard system with ~1600 Watts or so, it was day and night difference. My brother bought a 223, and unfortunately, he made the mistake and got the standard one which his dealer claimed to him that it is as going to be similar 222 3D high-end, which is not even close. I wish he got the 4D which would be the full experience for those who are used to the high-end speaker system in their other cars. Personally, I always go for the highest sound system in any car; it's one of those things wherein more is always better, and less is always less. Less can be enough, but less is much less in this case. The standard in the 223, despite called 3D again, is only ~700-sh Watts. That's less than what you find in some new chinese cars nowadays. 4D is a must IMO. Even 4D, it's 1750W with 31 speakers, so it is at the edge of what is considered great in today's standard, which is why to me the baseline system is disappointing depending on your baseline.

 

I was very very hesitant to write my thoughts on the regular Burmester system because I didn't want to start anything so I'm grateful you went there. I am honestly appalled at the sound quality of the regular Burmester system on the W222/223 and it wasn't long before I learned that these systems don't even have a subwoofer. I appreciate great audio, but I wouldn't say I'm overly snobby. The base Bang and Olufsen 19 speaker system was very good, and the $6500 upcharge to the Advanced 3D sound system was maybe another 10% delta (plus who doesn't love pop up tweeters!).

The regular Burmester sound system on the S class is...extremely bad to me. I would have no issues with the 19 speaker B&O on the A8L but like you I really want the best audio system I can buy. But that desire has a limit. On the Range Rover in order to get the Meridian Signature sound system, I'd have to buy the Autobiography trim which also requires a LWB build...so that's another $60K? Yeah, no, I'll stick with my mid level Meridian system (this time around anyways). It's good but not great.

To me, one of the best audio systems in the entire planet is the creme de la creme with 4D Burmester in the S class. It's a sound system that gives the listener a big hug. It's truly an enveloping sound from the outside in. The B&O Advanced 3D sound system is the opposite. It punches a person in the heart and gut from the inside out. The Mark Levinson system in the LS500 is a warm side of sterile - properly accurate, properly German, even. Very reference. 3 very different systems.

I know BMW has gotten a massive improvement in the present gen 7 series with the Bowers and Wilkins. The last gen's audio system sucked. I just haven't heard the new one yet as the exterior styling isn't my cup of tea (no disrespect of course). The 4D system on the S class is like a $10,000 upcharge here in Canada if memory serves, and it is totally worth it but that's also because the base system is inappropriate for the S class to me.

 

Like I said before I actually am incredibly impressed with the base Burmester in my W223. The key is to only listen to direct feed lossless audio through MBUX. The sound quality difference between that and CarPlay is astonishing and I totally get how people don't believe it until they hear it. It sounds like an entirely different system. You also need to take advantage of the personal sound profile. When my wife uses her profile none of that personal sound profile is set up and she listens to music over CarPlay, its astonishing that the audio is coming from the same system. It actually sounds considerably better than the B&W Diamond in the G70 7 Series to me, which IMO is kind of flat for a high end system.

In my 222 I added a subwoofer and was always underwhelmed, but truly I wouldn't buy the 4D unit in the 223 after hearing the base one I have with direct audio, its the best stereo I've ever had in a car for sure, I had LS430/LS460 with ML and LS400 with Nakamichi. I'm sure the 4D is better, but this is great. The bass especially is amazing given that it doesn't have a rear subwoofer, and the bass also feels like its coming from behind you which is amazing given that the bass "woofers" are under the dash. My wife and kids complain about the bass and I have to turn it down...

 

Holy moly you brought back memories! The RX300 back then also had the Nakamichi system. Gosh it's been so long that I don't even remember the sound profile or much about it other than a memory that it was an amazing sound system, especially for the time!! How time flies!!

 

Yeah that Nakamichi system in that LS400, not a power monster or a number of speaker monster, but it was an incredibly good audio system...the Mark Levinson systems in the LS430s were not as good, although the ML Reference system in the LS460s was excellent. The base Burmester in my 223 with the direct Apple Music or Tidal feed though is the best I have had for sure. Of those cars I would say:

223 Burmester (MBUX Feed Apple Music/Tidal)
LS460 Reference ML (Tidal through USB)
LS400 Nakamichi (CD)
LS430 ML (CD)
W223 Burmester (Carplay Wireless Tidal/Apple Music)
W222 Burmester (CarPlay Wired Tidal/Apple Music)

The LS460 ML I did retrofit CarPlay (wired) and through CarPlay the audio wasn't as good as an iPhone running Tidal connected through USB.

 

I'm surprised some find the 3D (base) Burmester in the W223 'disappointing' or 'extremely bad', makes me wonder if we're listening to the same sound system.
If there were explanations on what attributes were bad or lacking, it would've helped me understand what differences we're experiencing.

I wouldn't call myself audiophile, but I like audio equipment and have modified most, if not all, of my previous cars' factory systems into my liking.
I'm not into shrill, bright tones but rather a warm profile.

I didn't get much chance to sample the top-end factory systems on luxury brands, but the 'base' W223 Burmester is a system, aside from the B&W I listened to in the XC90, that I didn't find the need to touch anything.
When I first got the car, I started listening to lossless files from a thumb drive after setting up the sound profile and was extremely impressed, then also started to wonder how much better the 4D system could be.
(I'm trying hard not to listen to the 4D, because I know the base system will never be the same again )

That being said, I think those who think the base Burmester is garbage is listening to either low bitrate audio sources or with no sound profile set up, or both.
Those occasional instances when my S decides to resume playing the audio source I was listening to upon ignition on, I notice the source plays as flat/no profile and then a few seconds later the setting kicks in.
What a difference.

 

Generally speaking these threads don't end well which is why I try to just list an opinion and then just agree to disagree. I only listen to lossless music but human perception about an audio system's quality is going to range from data points that the individual may have but also and more equally so the type of music that they listen to.

For example, some sound systems sound incredible with vocals while really struggling with very deep frequencies. Very deep frequencies generally require a lot of wattage and subwoofers that are enclosed. Some sound systems really shine on the high end and some deal with frequencies fairly flat across the entire hearing range. Others lack emotion but are incredibly akin to reference audio.

On top of all this humans also have preferences. There are going to be limitations when some systems have subwoofers and some don't or some have 31 speakers versus 15 but whether or not that makes the material difference will come down to the listener.

It's very much a to each their own sort of thing but yes. Generally speaking when someone hears a sound system that wows them they typically can never go back. When I met my spouse she had never heard a high end sound system before and now I've ruined car audio for her 🤣🫠

I think it's important to keep in mind that customers generally rate audio system performance very very low on their decision making criteria so the vast majority of people aren't nitpicking about this sort of stuff and good on them because it's expensive.

The human brain also will typically fill in peaks and valleys so as each of us get used to the sound systems in our cars we tend to have a more positive picture of it over time.

When I first heard the Meridian system on my Range Rover the only emotion that I can tell you was I was incredibly pissed. To me the car was near perfect but the audio system was a true letdown. I realized that a big part of it was the artificial codecs so once I turn that off I was maybe 90% of the way to happiness. Over time I found what type of music the system excelled at and started to only listen to that and then over time I started listening to the typical genre of music I listen to. As my ears adjusted my perception of the system improved. However when I get into my Audi I want to kill the Range Rover all over again 🤣.

I make no joke here but I can literally feel music in the A8 and it literally feels like I'm being punched from the inside in certain music and in others I can literally close my eyes and you will see me grin from ear to ear. It truly is incredible what car stereo has become and for those that appreciate it it's worth every dollar. It's an incredibly emotional experience and there's no words that one can use to explain it.

 

Good read!
Sounds like you're really into audio equipment and music - telltale is the way you describe your impression on each system

It's an incredibly expensive hobby and very a subjective topic, although the so-called audiophiles tend to implicitly agree what attributes are more important in evaluating a sound system (e.g., clarity, staging, etc.)
I personally have a somewhat cheaper taste, preferring bottom heavy, gut-punching bass over too bright highs.
I also enjoy processed reproduction like EQ correction, time effect, etc.
The 'pure' or 'flat' playback most audiophiles listen to with their reference system isn't something I have acquired to appreciate.

And to my lowly, humble ears (also suffering from tinnitus ), the base W223 Burmester was very impressive.
I know the 4D will be objectively better than the 3D, so I avoid it like the plague so as not to ruin my 3D. lol

 

I can tell you that when properly set up and listening to a direct lossless feed the Burmester in the 223 "wows" me, I feel the music in my core exactly how you are describing @superangrypenguin , but I can agree that if you just test drove the car and listened to CarPlay music streaming with or without having set up the personal sound profile its underwhelming for sure. Someone has to hear the difference to believe it.

 

I'm not sure audio and cheaper taste are terms that can be used in the same sentence 😀 reference audio has its place as do different sound profiles and I'll be the first person to rave about my Bose noise canceling headphones. They are the farthest thing from reference audio but when I'm just trying to bang one out the artificial sound that's heavily boosted adds to the fun of it.

I have been very hesitant to talk about this but my home theater setup consists of multiple Bang and Olufsen components which exceed 250k CAD. I'm still annoyed with certain parts of the sound profile so to be blunt, I never finished that project and I'm still pissed at the amount of money I wasted there. A $300 pair of Bose headphones gives me more happiness 🤣

I think like everything there's a time and a place. Audi perfected a very specific concert Hall sound profile that when enabled creates a sound system profile that I cannot explain. It is artificial but it is so well done that anyone can just close their eyes and they would be literally in the concert hall that it was tuned in. This profile can be enabled and disabled and is the difference between reference audio and probably the most amazing artificial sound I have ever heard in my entire life.

I'm keeping my A8 until I'm dead for a number of reasons but one big one is that sound system. And yet I have no doubt another person might listen to it and go... Yeah that's not for me and that's okay!
It's like my opinion about the burmester base system. The opinion is not right and probably wrong but it is my opinion and is as valid as anyone else's and as long as the decisions we make on these super expensive cars make each of us happy then all of us should be happy for each other 🙂

Now if any of you want to listen to a truly horrific sound system all of you are invited to my Hyundai Tucson. I want to carve out the inside of my ears with a blunt spoon every time I listen to it. It is the most horrendous piece of **** I've ever heard. 🤣

 

I've been pretty blessed with audio sound systems in cars I've owned. While I was in the Subaru rental car when my previous S was in the shop getting fixed (post accident), surprisingly, that car had a pretty-rockin sound system. In fact, there were a lot of things about the Subaru that were impressive. There have been some rental cars I've driven over the years that hurt my ears, but they only made me miss the Burmester even more.

 

Oddly enough the Harmon Kardon system in our Pacifica is decent.

 

The sound stage in my wife's Wrangler is horrible. There are speakers facing downward in the ceiling. And then some speakers in the dash facing your knee slightly tilted to the floor. Due to it's ancient design i guess that's the best they could do.

 

As a lifelong audiophile who has spent way too much on stereo components, I always thought the W223 base Burmester system was excellent. Significantly ahead of the B&O system in my Urus. That said, I ordered the 4D system in my 27 S580, so I'll let you know what I think in a few months...

 

If I were ordering I would absolutely get the 4D, but I buy off the lot and the 4D is hard to find. Very happy with the 3D...

 

Umm. Please know I write this with a massive smile on my face.

I posted a picture in the other thread and I broke my own rule so since I did I might as well elaborate. When I had my 2019 Audi r8 v10 I had the B and O system as well and it was absolutely terrible. But you know what wasn't terrible? The sound of that glorious v10 from 0 to Red line through four gears and the wonder if I was about to get immediately arrested for excessive speeding 🤣

 

It is extremely difficult to find stock vehicles at dealer lots with 4D. I’m not sure why dealerships are not ordering more cars with the option as I think there is a demand for it. Short of a Maybach it’s extremely hard to find one. I know from experience.

 

I'm actually of the other end of this opinion. If I was a dealer I would never ever order a car with 4D. This is an extremely expensive option for most people especially since the vast majority of people are buying these cars as status symbols. As noted from consumer research previously, audio system quality is about 6th on the list. People don't care about sound systems in general and those that do are extremely rare.

 

They try and limit the MSRP as much as they can while getting the options people want. $6,500 adds a lot to the MSRP for a feature that a lot of buyers could take or leave. I have noticed dealers try and keep the MSRPs on their lot allocations under $150k.

 

I’m one of those rare people I guess. The high-end systems are one of the first options I always check off. It’s a must for me. Granted, the base system in the S Class is superb but if given the opportunity, I would always try and get the high-end, optioned system.

 

I'm just curious why not just do a factory order? The last time I bought a 'off the lot' vehicle was maybe 20 years ago. I know the wait is a bit of a pain but then one gets exactly the car that one wants!

 

I’ll do a factory order if the circumstances and timing are right, but I’m not going to pass up a good deal without the optioned stereo if given a choice. I had a 2027 AMG GT 55 on order with the options I wanted, including the 3d High-End Burmester at almost $5k before buying this lot car without it because of how much I got off versus paying MSRP for that ordered car. It’s very important to be but it’s not an overriding decision. But if I do order a car, it’s always checked off. Like, I had plans to order an S Class, and the 4D was checked off as well. Same with the 911 build Imhad and their Burmester above the Bose. It’s always a must have for me for any custom build.

 

Hmm - this is quite an interesting side conversation and I'm glad you brought it up as I proffer it warrants a healthy discussion! The premise of your argument, if I may, is that it's easier to get a discount off of a car on a dealer lot but I've actually found the opposite to be true - especially on my last few purchases.

Point #1:

A dealer is forced to buy X # of cars - and then they pay interest as the car sits on the lot. This is common knowledge and why dealers love pushing lot cars as they want the inventory off of their books. However, on high end cars like the S class, OEMs pay a significant 'hold back' (like a secret commission of sorts) to dealers. If a customer indicates they don't want a vehicle on a lot, the dealer still looks at the hold back and goes..."please sir, buy an S class". So that's point #1.

Point #2: Dealers also have targets they need to hit and *if* they hit them, they get additional margins on the cars. This is especially so of flagship cars. So - put in other words, dealers are heavily incentivized to sell S classes (and their equivalents at other brands)

Point #3: An ordered car does not incur any financing charges as it goes from boat to dealer to customer. Dealers like this!

Point #4: As the car doesn't need to sit at a dealer, they may be happy to waive all of the VIN etching fees, platinum protection this platinum protection that.

Point #5: In this economy, few people are buying flagship vehicles - so there is that.

Point #6: Factory orders are gambles in the sense that any incentives are only applied for the month of delivery.

I bought my custom ordered 2019 A8L back in 2019 at launch at a margin of 0.5% above dealer invoice price. No other fees - no vin etching, etc. I paid PDI & Freight and a $499 dealer admin fee, and that's it! I just took delivery of my 2026 Range Rover full size at MSRP -6% (so the dealer made 1% margin), and no other fees - no vin etching, no platinum this or that. I paid PDI & freight & admin fee. The GM of JLR explicitly told me that he doesn't have to charge me those items because it's factory ordered.

I'm the first person to say - the law of small numbers is stupid so my POV could be woefully wrong, but I just wanted to politely and constructively dissent that my proffered view is that a custom order car is in fact easier to negotiate.

That said - and people can laugh all they want. I insist on snagging a good deal. I have done extremely poorly with this at Rolls Royce, but short of that, whether they be Mercedes (not the S, but in a previous life), Audi and Jaguar/Land Rover, I'm buying flagship cars at near cost.

So all of this to state, you could very well be right that a dealer lot car is easier to negotiate but I just wanted to proffer my POV that there may be truth to the "other" side of the equation which is a custom ordered car is easier to negotiate.

PS - even more so if an OEM like Audi or JLR is ridiculously stupid enough to put 10 dealers within a 30 minute driving range

 

There are times when I just want to tune into Yacht Rock, The Blend or some other XM station and zone out - especially on road trips. I saw this promo pop into my Mercedes app yesterday: SiriusXM is offering free listening this weekend it appears (at least in the US for Memorial Day weekend). If you don't pay for XM and want to give it a listen, appears you can.