w4sim

This might be abit of novice question but im confused as different models come with sort of suspensions with different settings and different issues but all the terms used for them seem to be the same.

The one thing i have learned is that the ABC system is quite prone to failure and very expensive to repair. But sometimes iv read its filled with hydraulic oil, others its full of air, so i just want to know whats what really.

The car im looking at buying is a 2003-2005 S55K. Im sure thats got airmatic, but its also got the ABC button on it aswell. At the same time people are saying that CL500/600's of the same era have ABC which is filled with hydraulic oil and rather unreliable!!!

Anyone care to break this down for me? Do both systems run alike? And are they both quite unreliable as each other or is the air one any better?

Thanks.

irieblue

ABC, Active body control is the modern day high tech implementation of Anti Sway Bars. It is independent of the traditional Spring/Shock or in mercedes implementation AirMatic suspension. AirMatic is a fancy way of combining the Spring and the shock into a system that uses "Air".

All of the S classes have Airmatic suspension. The individual order option ABC is just that , it could be ordered independently, but was meant to enhance the stock Airmatic suspension. Similar in concept to how one replaced the roll bar to enhance your car's handling -- ok, a much low tech metaphor there...)

ABC, always was a high pressure Hydraulic system, Hydraulic being that is uses fluid and *not air* . The Hydraulic system in ABC operates at a fairly high PSI of around 3000 PSI, which needless to say involves precision everywhere (assembly, maintenance, quality parts).

I have a W221 (S550) with ABC. ABC it was what caused me to purchase my first ever Mercedes period. ABC will be what makes me move up to the next iteration of the S with it's Magic Body Control...

It's expensive to repair because the dealer is one of the few shops really set up to handle it (Independents don't really seem to want to deal with it, as it is somewhat complicated, especially in the W220, where in typical German engineering fashion, there was little thought given as to how to fix it/route the hydraulic cables. (There was a very detailed report with pictures (the pictures seem to have moved unfortunately...)

https://mbworld.org/forums/cl55-amg-...-pictures.html


ABC is like the proverbial trophy wife, a great ride, but boy are you going to hate it when the bill comes due... Plan accordingly...

Quadcammer

um, I'm not sure what the above post is talking about, but the S55 will have ABC, not airmatic. The two are mutually exclusive. You either get the hydraulic ABC or the airmatic.

The airmatic air suspension got a bad rap due to some failures on very early 220s. That said, its generally reliable, and with arnott products, cheap to repair.

ABC uses a dual power steering/suspension pump to send hydraulic fluid at about 3000psi to stiffen the suspension on an individual corner based on what the accelerometer and body level sensors tell the suspension computer. This is all routed through a series of valve blocks and lines. Given the extremely high pressures, you need heavy duty lines, and on some occasions, these lines can fail. In addition, the pumps can fail and are very pricey.

However, if you want an amg/600 s or cl, you are getting ABC regardless.

Sher Judge

Fantastic, good stuff, could'nt have said it better.

Quadcammer

yes, if you'd like to be wrong, thats how you would say it.

Ferri

I must agree with Oliverk here. If you have ABC, you do not have Airmatic, and vice-versa. ABC is conventionally sprung, whereas Airmatic sits on air blades. ABC adjusts pressure on each corner as movements come, Airmatic is not as proactive. Airmatic is floatier and for some may be perceived as a better ride, as it absorbs some bumps better. To me, having owned two ABC vehicles, I would not consider another suspension if ABC was the option. Car feels on a different level, a crispness in how it goes over the road that belies mass.

w4sim

er actually . . . . he's right. The S55 has Airmatic, not Hydraulic ABC like in the CL500/600's your thinking of.

The bit thats caused me confusion is whereby the S55k i went to look at had Airmatic suspension but also had a "ABC Sport" button on the centre console.

Quadcammer

uh, actually, no he's not.

airmatic and ABC are two completely separate systems. You have one or the other.

Since you think you are so clever, show me the air line and the compressor on an s55.

bloody hell, I have to do everything around here:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10609056...e-body-control

"To this end, the four spring struts are equipped with microprocessor-controlled plunger cylinders which almost completely compensate yawing, pitching and rolling movements of the vehicle body. The computer receives information about the relevant driving situation from the various acceleration sensors, then compares this with the data from the pressure sensors in the spring struts and the level sensors in the steering control arms. The ABC system translates this information into control signals, which are implemented as precisely metered oil flows by hydraulic servo-valves on the front and rear axles. When oil flows into the plunger cylinders, these adjust the tracing point of the steel springs integrated into the spring struts, generating the forces necessary to counteract movements of the vehicle body."

S55:


s500:



See the white lines running into the strut tops.

Those are AIR lines. See the s55 doesn't have them. The S55 has an electrical connector.

DRTYLNDY

Yea the S55 has ABC only. AMG's and the 600's get the ABC all the others unless ordered got airmatic. I have had both airmatic and ABC and I had to replace a strut in each instance and it costs about the same. BUT the ABC is very picky and is expensive to repair but is MUCH better than the airmatic IMO.
If you are worried about the costs of repair for a AMG then don't bother because it is expensive, no sugar coating that fact.

Ferri

Are you thinking about the pre-2003 S55 perhaps? That came standard with Airmatic and the ABC was an option (which when selected, deleted Airmatic).

w4sim

ahh, you see now that makes a lot more sense , because this 2003 S55k definitely had Airmatic suspension, the owner never said and i never realised it was a "special order" item.

Im not so much worried about the cost of repair, as i know AMG's are not cheap to maintain, im more worried about the frequency of the failing parts. I dont mind spending 2 grand on the suspension if it goes wrong, but then if i have to spend another 2 grand on the same problem the next year and then the same the year after then its just a ball-ache really, more so with the amount of time spent in and out of garages.

w4sim

Now we're getting somewhere.

Quadcammer

Pretty sure this is not true.

The 2002 S55 came with ABC standard in the United States.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._benz_s55_amg/

http://www.vehix.com/car-reviews/200...dard-equipment

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

DRTYLNDY

Wait a minute, I think you are still confused. A 2003 S55 came with ABC and nothing else. If the "2003 S55" you looked at had airmatic it was a phoney.
Why do you think the car had airmatic in the first place anyways? Is it because it had a raise and lower button on the dash? If so guess what that is for ABC also. My 2003 S55 has a raise and lower button as well as a button to select ride quality. That button will tighten up the suspension so if you want your 5000Lb sled to handle like a sports car it will. The only thing is that then the ride gets a bit harsh.
From what I have seen the ABC system is good for about 80K miles and then will need a pump and maybe some valves. The lines are a hit or a miss. But if the work was done properly it should last for another 80K! So don't be scared.
I use to drive Corvettes only and now I will never go back after the S55. BUT I won't say I will not get a S65! =) Good luck and I hope this finally clears up all of this.
Johan

w4sim

Although i cant 100% recall wether the top of the struts had airlines or electrical connectors i do remember the guy telling me that one of the struts had recently been replaced. When i was looking through the paperwork i remember seeing a rather expensive invoice for a "strut assembly - inner - air" or words to that effect. Coupled with the fact that the guy also stated it had Airmatic when i had asked him over the phone and the minor point of the struts actually looking like air bellows when i looked at them ( i couldnt see a spring as the whole thing was covered by a big rubber thing ) i assumed this was an airmatic. When i took it for a drive it was very "wallowy" around even gentle corners, the only time iv ever experienced that before is when i had the privilege of driving my friends Phantom for about an hour (definitely sure they dont have ABC).

The car had 85k on the clock when i went to see it and the invoice showed 79k on it when the strut was replaced, so your pretty much spot on about when they fail. But the doubt in my mind was the fact that one of the struts had been replaced . . . . how long would it be then before the others needed replacing???

Overall i think iv got a pretty good picture of whats what now as opposed to when i started the thread. Definitely know what to look out for on the next one though.

Id dearly love an S65 myself, but at the moment i think theres only 2 for sale in the whole country and the cheapest of them is still priced twice as much as the most expensive S55. Ahh well, keep dreaming.

Zax63

I will tell you the ABC failures are way more expensive than the 1 strut that has been replaced. There are obviously 3 more, but the hydraulic pump that goes at 80k or so is the big expense. Like 5k from what I have heard. If you have three more struts to go, plus any of the bladders above the strut, you could be 10k deep in repairs from here. Oh yeah, and don't forget the ridiculously routed hydraulic lines. If those go it's worlds more fun! My MB tech still says ABC is more reliable than Airmatic, though. IMHO, don't buy an S class and expect to spend less than 5k a year on random maintence if you are out of warranty. 4k in brakes every 30k-35k miles (at least on the S65). 1500 in tires every 10-15k miles. Random ABC failures. Not to mention the bundles and bundles of electronics.

Sher Judge

My daily driver is an S500 ($550) W221 it has ABC?

Go Figure

w4sim

Thanks, in regards to the something "major" going pop on the ABC/Airmatic systems (if theres such a thing as small that is) i guess i might just revert to Arnott Industries for a complete overhaul and get rid of the evil system altogether.

As for general maintenance and servicing per year, im not too bothered by that as this will only be a weekend car and not a daily driver. I expect to rack up approx. 5k a year in the way of mileage.

The friend with the Phantom had an S320 Petrol for a couple of years and he reckons he spent about $1000 per year on general maintenance with about the same in the way of servicing per year aswell. And he drives it twice as much as i do.

Though i must agree with you, even with the lack of mileage the bundles and bundles of electrics are always playing on the back of my mind.

Quadcammer

Not quite, even at full dealer list, the Tandem pump which drives the power steering and the suspension is $1,700. While labor will be pricey, no way will it reach $3,300. Tandem pump replacement at an indy, with the part from parts.com ($1,200), should run you no more than $2k.

I don't think ABC is more reliable than airmatic at all. Most airmatic struts experience failures at around 80k miles, which is about when ABC cars start having issues. Either could have a failure at any random time, but airmatic, especially on the later cars seems pretty solid. Not to mention its far far far cheaper to repair.

I think your $5,000 annual maintenance expense budget is very high unless you buy a high mileage car and drive it a bunch. For instance, over the past year and 6k miles, I've paid about $200 for maintenance (oil change, cabin filters, and a few trim clips). then again, I don't have a 65.

well, its an option that can replace the airmatic, but you cannot have both at the same time.

GrepAwk

What the heck is a 2003 S55K? Never heard of a "K". It sounds like you are getting suckered into somebody's S500 that they are trying to pass off as an S55. Let's start by asking if it has an AMG supercharger on top of the engine.

In MY03, here was only an S55AMG that includes only the Hydraulic ABC suspension (and NOT airmatic), or the S500 with Airmatic (not the ABC) suspension.

There was nothing in between. Maybe somebody took their S500 to Kleeman for a little tuning and rebadged it a "K"? I have never heard of it.

Run away from this seller. Go find an S55AMG.
If there are air shocks, it is not an '03 S55. Period.

Zax63

I have never replaced the main pump. My car was a low mileage car upon aquisition, (9k miles). I have driven it 25k in the past 18 months - it is my daily driver and I prefer taking it on trips to my wifes R class...way better for passing.
But to add up some maintenance costs - My ps2's lasted 8k miles. I am anticipating 12-15k on my pilot supersports, that's $1500 with install, shipping, and balancing. I had my front brakes done at 33k, rears need doing soon, 2600 for fronts and 1200 for rears - from the dealer, my indy quoted me 2550. Thats 3800 every two or three years, or at least 1200 amortized per year. I'm at 2700 per year on tires and brakes. But then you have to start adding in the 100 dollar oil changes, and you should have a reserve for miscellaneous wear items, like say my coil pack which blew at 14k miles, 1400 bucks but covered under warranty. Amortize the cost of the 1400 dollar struts, the 1800 dollar pump (my bad, I thought it was way more), and say that the abc system needs all four struts and a new pump every 100k miles, and you have to reserve for another grand a year at 10k miles per year give or take. And we have not factored in the general maintence, the 60k mile trans flush, the 100k change interval on the sparkplugs (24 platinum ones on the 65, no idea of the 55 plug count) and on the 55 you have supercharger clutch packs and on all of them you have the idler pulleys. I think 5k a year on a 65 is a conservative reserve, maybe a grand less for the 55, but I think if you are not prepared to spend that, you could potentially be in for a big shock. I know they are different, but many electronic systems are the same. Lets talk about some of the bugaboo electronics... My battery dies whenever you leave the car for more than 2 weeks. No one can figure out why. My head unit intermittently stops transmitting all sound, including navi voice, but if you park it for an hour it fixes itself. My navi sometimes doesn't work for no apparent reason. The rear HVAC occasionally omits a high pitched groan that is completely non repeatable (btw, chime in if you know what any of this ***** is caused by). The tire pressure monitors sometimes are "unavailable", then mysteriously start working again. All of these things will be addressed under warranty, but once you are out of that, I'd be frickin' ready and have some lubricant handy.

In my opinion, once you get past warranty if you are spending 200 a year on this car and are using it as a daily driver, you are either very lucky, or a very good mechanic.

And oh by the way, Oliverk, a couple of folks have thrown around that you are a jerk. I don't think you are a jerk, I think you are pretty funny. But if you have only spent 200 bucks on your car in the past 6k miles, you are also one lucky guy. I had an Audi Allroad years ago. It was always breaking. I ran into a dude with an Allroad in a parking lot who swore how reliable it was. I started to list the things that had happened to my allroad, and he started saying "oh, yeah, mine did that too. Oh yeah, mine did that..." and so on. Turns out he was brainwashed by this piece of crud allroad and wanted to love it and ignored what a piece of garbage it was. Not saying the benz is garbage, just that it is a fine and complicated instrument that, like an airplane, will require fairly constant and expensive maintenance(at least in my experience). Just giving a warning to the noob.

Quadcammer

The K stands for Kompressor and is generally accepted vernacular for the supercharged 55 series amg cars. On that same note, the engine is often called the M113K. Usually one does not list the year and the K because the model year is the tell tale for the engine choice, but alas, some do.

Well, I guess I should have expanded. A 65, with its expensive brakes and tendency to eat coil packs, could very well eat up $5k a year, especially if you are replacing tires often. The V8 cars seem to be a little better, but you are absolutely right, the electronics can be problematic.

Dead batteries, are in my experience driven by bad door control modules. My old E430 which I gave to my mother would kill a battery in 3 days...Diagnosed by dealer as the DCM, I traced it further to a faulty IR sensor on the door handle. May way to try the standard multimeter/pull fuse technique, I find it works well.

I've had the no sound issue once years ago, and its never happened again. The comand units are not the best, that I'll agree with.

I have been lucky, and I've also been a bit lazy. I have a parkrtonic sensor that flips out in direct sunlight and the trunk closing assist module is leaking. That said, those parts are maybe $400 all in. Luckily enough the car has really been pretty solid.

$5k seems high, but I also DIY almost everything not under warranty, so if you are going to the dealer, I can believe it.

And thanks for the vote of confidence. I don't try to be a jerk, but when people make factually inaccurate or exaggerated statements, I feel the need to call them on it. Must be that debate team experience.

w4sim

Atlast, something we can agree on

But yes, the K does indeed stand for Kompressor, which is German for Supercharger.

Over here in England land, most sellers will state the fact that its an "S55K" (and some will even go so far as to list it as a "S55KL", the "L" being for Limo, or Long, depending on how you look at it). But basically people here do that to differentiate it between the pre-2003 cars which had no Kompressors.

What you have to remember is that over in the USA there a plenty of S55's and S65's going around and a lot of people know what they are. Over here, there arnt that many and most people cannot tell (even i didnt know what year the Supercharged models started from). I dont know the current amount for sale in the U.S but to give you an idea i think there about 4 S55's for sale, 5 S55K's for sale and only just 1 S65 for sale . . . . and thats in the whole country . And about 3 months ago there was even a S55 K8 Brabus come up fro sale, and i didnt even know one of them existed. And they are ALL listed as AMG's.

So some of the terminology and listings over here are different to the ones you may be used to and a lot of people of here just dont deal with the S class in AMG form. Hence why if i ask something about an S55 on a British Mercedes forum il be lucky to even get 1 reply.

GrepAwk

Now I know about the "K". I never hear/see it referred to that way it in USA. Also, we only got the "L" long wheelbase version in USA.

First production model year with the Supercharger was '03.

There were lots of UK owners on this forum when the car first came out.

Also, check the SL55 AMG forum. They got the supercharger in '02 and I recall severall active UK members with great advice about the engine and ABC, etc.

w4sim

I think to a high degree the Letter "K" is used to tell people its the Supercharged model, and most times the "L" is used as more of a selling point (your getting that bit more of luxury and a bit more a car). Im sure about 90% of the Supercharged ones over here are in the "L" version anyway.

Although generally recognised as being in production from 2003 to 2005 the actual start date was October 2002, not sure if the USA is the same. I only noticed that when 2 came up for sale on a 2002 registration.

Not too sure if this is entirely accurate or not but isnt the engine the same for the E55, S55, SL55 and the CLS55, all but a few tweaks here and there for each car. The same 5.4 V8 Supercharged?