edwardscpa

I've got a 2001 S500 w/ 140K miles that I've had forever. It came with the 7yr/100K warranty which came in very handy as things tend to break near 100K. I'm definitely familiar with the maintenance costs on it in terms of brakes, tire wear, etc., which are higher than your average car but not horrendous. It still runs great, but I want to replace it. I need help evaluating a few options...

For the same price (under $70K) and mileage (under 40K), I could have either a 2012 S65 AMG or a 2014 S550. Also under consideration is a 2012/13 S550 AWD for low/mid $40Ks. I don't mind paying up for a nicer car, but hate high operating costs if it's too out of control.

Obviously the 65 is different beast... the interior is posh and I find the engine sound and power to be intoxicating, so I'm looking to get sobered up as appropriate as to the A vs B costs of owning such a vehicle. Note that I'd be driving this as my main car, and while I'd gun it now and then I'm not out to trash it and it would never see a track.

What are the major mechanical differences between the AMG V12 and the vanilla S550 (i.e., components that AMG swapped out for unobtainium which could be expected to need replacing), what are the cost differences, and how much more frequently do they need service? I'll start:

Rotors/pads: How much more expensive than normal, and do they need replacing more often?

Tires: assume all-season tires. Does it devour tires in the ordinary course of driving?

Suspension?

I'm also curious about real-world distance highway driving MPG in the S65. I've found that I get better than advertised mileage in my S500... like mid/upper 20s on long-haul drives.

Thanks for the info!

akmatic63

Fuel costs and oil changes will cost more in the s65, it will use up the rear tires faster, breaks are larger so probably be higher than the s550 not sure if it'll need to be replaced more often.

In my w220 s65 i average 15-16 mostly country roads and highway. That being said, although the 2014 is the newer shape it probably will still depreciate faster than the s65 (how it usually happens when you compare older models), and i think 5-10 years from now the s65 will still stand out over the 550.

Have you considered the S63 at all?

Shadow5501

There is a huge difference in brake parts cost between AMG and non-AMG cars. All modern AMG use two piece rotors that are dramatically more expensive. Here are example prices for genuine Mercedes parts taken from peachparts.com (mail order site). 2012 S65 front rotor: $990/each. rear rotor: $990/each front pad set: $259 rear pad set: $151. Here are the equivalent parts prices for a 2014 s550: front rotor: $181 rear rotor: $141 front pads: $145 rear pads: $85


Another example. The crowded v12 under the hood dramatically increases the cost of some repairs versus the v8 cars. For example the book time to replace engine mounts on the v12 car is 18 hours of labor - it requires removing the engine. For comparison it is 2 or 3 hours on the v8 car.


I would expect the v12 car to be significantly more expensive to own over time as compared to the v8 car even though depreciation and fuel economy are reasonably similar.

UNderdog

As the owner of a 2008 S65 and prior owner of a 2000 S500 I have actual experience with the two vehicles. I drove the S500 to around 230K miles and have 115K on my S65. I have averaged just a hair under 16MPG in the S65 over the long haul. All freeway road trip is maybe 19MPG.

My S500 had 16" nonsport tires which are cheaper, last longer, less prone to road damage and getting out of balance. You will spend more time at the shop and money with any low profile sport tire relative to nonsport tires. You can mitigate some of the higher cost by staying away from the super soft high end sport tire and going with something more durable (but obviously they will provide lower performance).

AMG parts cost more than non-AMG but you can shop around for discounts. They will still be more than discounted non-AMG parts though either way! Brakes are more than the S550. I did a front brake job including rotors for under $2K but did it all myself. Brake replacement interval is dependent on driving style. I don't think the S65 differs from the S550 in pad/rotor life. The book may say the engine comes out to replace motor mounts but the dealership did not remove my engine to replace them. Motor mounts will need to be replaced every 60-65K miles (or sooner) as near as I can tell which will be more frequent than the 550.

I have only had one issue with the ABC and I fixed it myself in 30 minutes - the pulsation damper on the tandem pump failed so I replaced it. Assuming the 550 has airmatic you will be replacing air struts, valve blocks and the pump over time also don't forget. No system is completely free of cost. Even shocks and springs in a "regular" suspension will need to be replaced at some point. The 2008 has the second generation ABC and I think it is more reliable than what some of the earlier cars experienced.

At some point the engine will need to be pulled (I'm thinking around 150K but we'll see) and at that time the turbo water and oil lines can be done and all the rubber and plastic bits on the engine replaced and then it's good for another 8-10 years!

Can you "manage" the maintenance on the car by doing some of your own work? Change spark plugs, diagnose minor problems, change oil, brakes, etc. If you just drop it at the dealership and tell them to fix it you will be paying for the leather couches, marble rest rooms and free coffee!

Here's the recap of my car at 100K miles. So far it has been highly reliable and relatively cheap to maintain but does require tires and fuel. I still love the car and it still looks new. Interior is gorgeous. Extremely comfortable.

https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ml#post6538991

Good luck!
Randy

V12TTenthusiast

I'd say from owning a w220 S500 to a w211 S550 and an R230 SL65, Theres a few things I can provide insight on.

Like everyone said, brakes are alot more expensive, if you tune the car you will most likey need to replace the coilpacks which are not cheap. As UNderdog has mention, on the S and CL you do not need to drop the engine even though book time says you do. Only car where the engine needs to be dropped due to the really tight space is on the SL V12s. The ABC will be hit or miss on your car, it might be fine or you could be walking into a nightmare keeping up with the maintenance. I'm not going to lie my S550 has been way more reliable then my SL65, but the 65 is alot more fun. I would gladly get an S65 too but I'm looking for a replacement SUV atm and the S550 is the only car with AWD since its 4 matic, which is good to have during the winter months. I've owned the S550 since 6k and I'm now at 73k and only thing that had to be replaced with the 3rd brake light and a pulley with a new belt. Other than that I'm really amazed how reliable my S550 is lmao

edwardscpa

Thanks for all the input, and UNderdog, thanks for the detailed maintenance log in your other post! You really went through those rear tires! Other than that, I think I've spent quite a bit more on my 2001 S500 over the years through 100K miles than you noted for your newer AMG.

I'd have no intentions of tuning the car if that would further reduce the service life of the car or components.

I actually test drove a S600 (2008 I think) a while back and it was particularly noisy inside. The shady dealer said it was the V-12 and was normal; despite being the first V-12 I'd driven, I knew it was BS. Super noisy. S65 was much quieter. I imagine it may have been the engine mounts as you noted above. ...good to know.

I can live with 19mpg highway avg and 16mpg combined. ...no worse than my V-8 powered pickup or SUV!!

I'm pretty handy, but more than likely would not be servicing my own vehicle... certainly not while it's in the warranty period. I've got an indi guy I'd probably keep using instead. That said, the peach parts website was a fun read. Good resource.

No interest in S63 really. Go practical or go all-in I say, so if I have to pony up for AMG brakes anyway, may as well get the rare S65. My next car will undoubtedly be electric, so I'd like to cross this off my bucket list lol. (Incidentally, I just drove a Tesla, and while the fit, finish and looks of the car are way subpar for the price and it's not quite what I want, it trounces every other car I've ever driven, in every way. By a lot. Mind-blowing acceleration and handling. Brake pads are good for about a half a million miles apparently. Most of the service items we're discussing don't exist on electric cars. Anyway, we won't talk about that again for a few years lol.)

So... when shopping for a S65 with 38K miles, I need to have the pads/rotors and engine mounts checked, and what else? Is the 40K service a big deal?

akmatic63

As long as you have a good indy who knows what he's working on and can get parts from other sources you avoid paying the hefty dealer mark up on parts and the maintenance costs. I serviced mine at my indy's shop but i like doing oil changes at the dealer, costs a bit more but they always do that visual inspection and make notes and it keeps me in the mercedes road side program. Also if you are looking at a newer s65 it might be easier to get aftermarket warranty in that $3000-$5000 range.

I would also have the transmission checked make sure no leaks or major issues there with the amount of torque the car has. Usually around 60-80k miles the coil packs need to be replaced (I'm at 71k on the originals, fingers crossed). Coil packs, wires and 24 spark plugs replacement could be ~$3500 at an indy

They say do the ABS flush ($200ish at the dealer) every 60k miles or 2 years to maintain it. Oil change at the dealer (~12 quarts and filter) is around $250 with taxes but its good for a year or 10k miles. Oh also, these engines like to burn oil, so every 3k miles you'll need to top up a quart or so, so i always keep 2 quarts in the trunk just in case.

edwardscpa

Good to know... I'm growing less concerned over maintenance costs, as I hear W221 cars are better overall than W220, and the ABC system (I have airmatic on my W220) was much improved apparently.

Couple random questions though about W221/S65, given that it's a 2012 and the tech may not be the latest and greatest:

Phone integration... I'm a Samsung guy.. have an S7 Edge. Any issues with Bluetooth/contacts/media? Also, is there a USB charging port anywhere? I don't see anything in the armrest. The car does have a media cable in the glove box, but it's the old school Apple connector.

Nav updates, other updates, etc... are they over the air or do you buy DVDs? Free or no? I have zero experience with MBrace and other such services. Does the car support remote start either by keyfob or phone?

Rear seat entertainment... is it any good vs iPad? I assume you upload media via SDcard or DVD?

Thanks!!

edwardscpa

Bummer. I was getting ready to buy the S65 today, but on the final test drive, the throttle cut out after a few minutes and went into what I'll call "limp home mode". The transmission changed gears appropriately, and if you floored the gas it even held the gear longer as you'd expect, but the power wasn't there. Got outrun by a garbage truck. It happened right after I changed from C to S mode, and put ABC into Sport mode as well while on the highway. From other threads on here, it's self-preservation mode for the tranny, and could indicate a variety of non-trivial problems.

...then come to find out it's had a new owner every year, and the last one turned it in after having it diagnosed for ECU and other similar issues that would indicate this might be an intermittent problem. Thanks Carfax... Autocheck didn't show all that. Plus, I'm sure the car had been driven hard with that many owners.

The technician tried to pass it off like this: "The S65 has superchargers, not just turbos, so it takes longer for them to spin up." Run!!

Hell of a car though. ...or should I go back?

Edit: I started a new topic about the loss of power.

https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...ml#post6872855

akmatic63

The loss of power could be a lot of things...were there any lights on the dash? My friend had a e55 which had a bad intercooler pump and the car would get too hot and it would get into limp mode.

sloanbj

Edmunds TCO says about $130,000 over five years on the AMG vs $102k for the vanilla S550. Steep either way but manageable if it's not over 5% or so of your income.

edwardscpa

Must be based on new car prices, factoring in depreciation. I assume they are comparing an S63...

Maybe I'm cheap, or maybe I just value getting a good deal, but I don't know how much I'd have to make to not mind eating that sort of depreciation, but it would have to be vastly more than 20x those annualized amounts. I do well as it is, but that would seriously **** me off.

sloanbj

No, it is total cost from today for the models and years you mentioned. Check for yourself. New S63 is $150k.

Depreciation is only part of it. These rigs also attract high taxes, maintenance, insurance, etc. I try to keep heavy costs like this as business expenses, not personal. My boss just hit the company up for three armored SUVs - one each for him and wife and a backup. He is shameless.

edwardscpa

Interesting. I ran it and came up with $123K for the S65, but close enough. Devil is in the details though. Based on my mileage, asking price, interest costs, and subbing in the cost of a 5yr warranty for the repairs figure, it comes down materially. They still show $26K in maintenance (on top of $11K repairs) over 5yrs, which seems rather outrageous (with $8,687 in maintenance in year 1?). I'm not clear what you'd be spending that kind of money on in terms of routine maintenance...

I'm estimating a $68K TCO...

stever500

You only go around once. I wouldn't even slightly consider the 550 over the S65. Money, repairs, etc be damned. If it were me, I'd get the S65, 2 years older, in a NY heartbeat over the S550. The S550 is nice, but anyone can get "nice". I'd prefer "KILLER" :o). Your mileage may vary widely.

If you run #'s on this, if you want to economize this whole decision, go for the 550 I guess. If you want a car that you smile wider than a cheshire cat each time it get cleaned, after you park it and walk away from it, when you walk back to it after parking, seeing it in the garage or driveway, when you pick it up from the shop after it just gets serviced and it's looking beautiful, GET THE S65. LIVE LARGE.

tracvision

I know this is an older thread, but I replaced the motor mounts and trans mount on my W221 S600 V-12 in less than 3 hours. The driver side Motor mount is a bit tricky, but just requires patience and finesse. Why one would remove the motor, I have no idea.

edwardscpa

I forgot to post an update! In Nov 2016, I found a CPO 2013 S65 with new rotors and a Meisterschaft exhaust (OMG!!) and bought it with every warranty they'd sell me. It's an amazing car and I love it, but would liken it to dating a supermodel; it looks good and performs well, but it's going to be expensive and a pain in the *** from time to time but no one's complaining. I've had a slew of things done to it under warranty, but even still, the random stuff is expensive. It was prone to throwing CELs and idling very roughly/dying; none of the usual suspects were the cause.. instead, they installed a new engine wiring harness that fixed it.

The wheels are very bendy around potholes or bumps in the road; the wheel and tire warranty has paid for itself many times over. It eats tires, but no worse than I'd expect. I've put 23k on it and have replaced the front pads, but no other brake work has been needed.

MPG sucks, but that's largely due to the fact that this car does not encourage conservative acceleration. It begs to go fast under moderate throttle. Full throttle is nearly useless, as 738lbs of torque trying to motivate ~5000lbs of mass to move out of the way via only 2 rear wheels will cause wheel spin beneath 50mph at the drop of a hat. That why the 4MATIC S63 is faster. I dare not take traction control off.

The warranty is up this fall... what to do, what to do...

JohnLane

What to do... What to do....

Enjoy it!

As depreciation on the 222 S-65 drops them to a price point that works....

Make that move.

Audio in the 222 car is best I have ever heard in a car.... Though the current nannies are annoying. I don't enjoy having the car buzz the steering wheel as I drive down the middle of a country two lane.