Fatality
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 6
GL63 AMG
Fatality
September 2002, a friend, his 16 year old son, and I were traveling on Interstate 94 in SW Wisconsin. It was a bright sunny day at approximatly 12:30 PM. Traffic was light heading in both directions. We were looking for our exit and the three of us were looking out the windshield. Traveling towards us in the oncoming lane was a silver ML series MB. Driver of that vehicle touched her front wheels off the edge of the pavement. The vehicle kicked up a large cloud of dust. The driver over corrected and the vehicle swung first to the right and then back hard to the left. The vehicle then rolled 3 times sideways and then once end over end. Traffic was moving at between 70 and 75 on my side of the Interstate so I would assume the same for the other side. Vehicle ended up on its side in the meridian between the oposing lanes. ML was hardly recognizable as a Mercedes. I won't get into the details other than to say this was a fatality (only one person in the vehicle). MB builds great automobiles but SUV's are top heavy by definition and no vehicle, even an MB is completly safe.
Let's be careful out there.
Jim
00 ML 430
01 996
Let's be careful out there.
Jim
00 ML 430
01 996
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Chicago
Volvo V90 CC
That's why I don't like compact SUV's, they are very easy to roll over, I once avoided an accident on the freeway on my suburban, the Suburban went sideways for a good distance but it never came on risk or rolling over, I'm sure that if I had been on a compact SUV (any brand compact SUV) I would've rolled over no matter what, you just can't go high and narrow safely. Like you said, let's keep it safe out there.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: GMT -8 hours
Mercedes-Benz
ML isnt really considered a "compact" suv. Your Suburban looks to be 2wd from the pics (lower). I would like to see a 4wd suburban make the same manuevers that ML did (wouldn't be pretty).
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,081
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From: Chicago
Volvo V90 CC
Originally posted by AlBoston
ML isnt really considered a "compact" suv. Your Suburban looks to be 2wd from the pics (lower). I would like to see a 4wd suburban make the same manuevers that ML did (wouldn't be pretty).
ML isnt really considered a "compact" suv. Your Suburban looks to be 2wd from the pics (lower). I would like to see a 4wd suburban make the same manuevers that ML did (wouldn't be pretty).
4wd suburbans seat higher and have narrower tires, but they still have the same wheelbase lenght and width, so that helps much more than having a narrow width with the same hight (as many other smaller SUVs out there).
I keep seeing many smaller SUVs on the road that are higher than my suburban (and I've never lowered it), that's the main problem with the roll overs.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 603
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From: NY
ML 500 Sport
I think this accident was caused more by driver error than by the type of vehicle...every car has it's trade offs...It sounds as though the driver paniced and jerked the car back onto the pavement causing the tank slapping and the eventual roll over. there is no other reason for the driver to have lost control...especially an ML it is more than capable to handle two wheels in the dirt a high speed...the driver should have carried straight until the car settled then eased it back on the pavement...or carried the car carefully completely of the pavement slowing it in a straight line.
this is a classic rookie mistake in racing...the real problem is poorly trained drivers in the US who don't understand their lack of skill or the capabilities of their vehicles.
this is a classic rookie mistake in racing...the real problem is poorly trained drivers in the US who don't understand their lack of skill or the capabilities of their vehicles.
Last edited by jco-amg; Dec 23, 2002 at 10:47 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,081
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From: Chicago
Volvo V90 CC
Originally posted by jco-amg
this is a classic rookie mistake in racing...the real problem is poorly trained drivers in the US who don't understand their lack of skill or the capabilities of their vehicles.
this is a classic rookie mistake in racing...the real problem is poorly trained drivers in the US who don't understand their lack of skill or the capabilities of their vehicles.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 6
GL63 AMG
Short Wheelbase
I have wondered often about the quickness that the vehicle rolled. There seemed to be very little skidding (sideways) prior to the rolling. The roll began while the vehicle was completly on the pavement. Short and tall MAY have made this worse than it MIGHT otherwise have been. Does an SUV have to have such a high center of gravity for what 99 % of the population uses them for? In my case I would be content with less ground clearance provided I could retain the other features that an ML offers. Four wheel drive and the ability to trailer are more important than the ability to "four wheel" in the woods.
And yes I would agree that the driver made an error and then paid an awful price for it.
Regards,
Jim
00 ML 430
01 996
And yes I would agree that the driver made an error and then paid an awful price for it.
Regards,
Jim
00 ML 430
01 996
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 63
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GL63 AMG
Seatbelt
Yes she did. Somehow during the rolling the seatbelt moved from the normal position (crossing the left shoulder) to the opposite (right) shoulder. The drivers head was between the shoulder strap and the window. The vehicle came to a rest on its side and I crawled through the sunroof to check breathing as I was concerned that the now malpositioned seatbelt was cutting off breathing. It was not but in the end it did not matter.
I am not sure that the direction Porsche, BMW and Mercedes are going with the performance (speed) of these vehicles is the correct one. As the owner of an ML 430 (wifes car) I appreciate the tremendous power of the vehicle when towing my boat but I also recognize that no number of driver aids can compensate for the vehicle dynamics of a top heavy auto.
Again, let's be careful out there!
Jim
00 ml 430
01 996
I am not sure that the direction Porsche, BMW and Mercedes are going with the performance (speed) of these vehicles is the correct one. As the owner of an ML 430 (wifes car) I appreciate the tremendous power of the vehicle when towing my boat but I also recognize that no number of driver aids can compensate for the vehicle dynamics of a top heavy auto.
Again, let's be careful out there!
Jim
00 ml 430
01 996
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 229
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SL500
It seems that she must have 'slipped' under the lap belt, thus allowing the shoulder strap to slide over her head. The reason I am interested in this is because I thought manufacturers were aware of this problem and were addressing it. I wonder if the belt had been attached to the seat, like can be found in the SL, if she would have simply been 'pinned' to the seat by the belt and ultimately survived the accident.
In any case I'm with you, everyone please be safe out there.
In any case I'm with you, everyone please be safe out there.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 6
GL63 AMG
Good observation
Good observation.
I assume that you mean the shoulder harness attaching to the seat as it passes over the left shoulder. There is an adjustment on my ML (00 430) on the pillar but I don't know about earlier models (the ML in question was a 98 ML 320). There is no underestimating the amount of forces involved in a high speed accident. Sliding under the shoulder strap is probably the only explanation. Scarry.
Jim
00 ML 430
01 996
I assume that you mean the shoulder harness attaching to the seat as it passes over the left shoulder. There is an adjustment on my ML (00 430) on the pillar but I don't know about earlier models (the ML in question was a 98 ML 320). There is no underestimating the amount of forces involved in a high speed accident. Sliding under the shoulder strap is probably the only explanation. Scarry.
Jim
00 ML 430
01 996
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
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e320 Wgn. 98, 08 R320 CDI, 2017 Chrysler Pacifica
ESP any help?
Wonder if the ML had ESP which, if it did, should have come into play to stabilize the car. Quote from about ESP http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml320_ESP.html
"Should your car threaten to go into a spin, the system jumps into action almost as if an invisible hand took over to put your car back on track safe and sound. Like the Antilock Braking System (ABS) ESP helps to stabilize a car even in extreme situations."
The momentum generated by the initial swerve may have been too much to counteract and obviously there are limits to this technology.
"Should your car threaten to go into a spin, the system jumps into action almost as if an invisible hand took over to put your car back on track safe and sound. Like the Antilock Braking System (ABS) ESP helps to stabilize a car even in extreme situations."
The momentum generated by the initial swerve may have been too much to counteract and obviously there are limits to this technology.
Member
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Posts: 98
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From: FL
W124 E36T AMG; W124 500E
The problem with most compact SUV's is the high center of gravity, which can be exacerbated by having things like a giant Yakima or Thule storage box atop.
The Range Rovers had it right by making the tops out of lightweight aluminum and keeping the heavy steel down low, thus keeping the center of gravity nice and low.
The Range Rovers had it right by making the tops out of lightweight aluminum and keeping the heavy steel down low, thus keeping the center of gravity nice and low.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 690
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From: Kuwait
Mercedes C200K Coupe
I was once driving at a speed of 160Km/h on a highway in my coupe...
all of a sudden all the cars stopped and I had to press hard on the brakes.
My car came to a full stop with a reasonable distance between me and the car in front of me... but if it was an SUV it would've defiantly flipped.
thats why I'll never trade my car for SUV or any other similar even if it was a range rover or x5
all of a sudden all the cars stopped and I had to press hard on the brakes.
My car came to a full stop with a reasonable distance between me and the car in front of me... but if it was an SUV it would've defiantly flipped.
thats why I'll never trade my car for SUV or any other similar even if it was a range rover or x5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Abingdon, MD
Sorry to hear about this fatal accident. It never fails to amaze me how aggressively SUVs in general are driven.
By the sounds of this situation the young lady may not have been paying complete attention to the road. Scary how quickly this can happen.
By the sounds of this situation the young lady may not have been paying complete attention to the road. Scary how quickly this can happen.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7
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From: SW MO
2002 C230K SC
Originally posted by pocholin
That's why I don't like compact SUV's, they are very easy to roll over, I once avoided an accident on the freeway on my suburban, the Suburban went sideways for a good distance but it never came on risk or rolling over, I'm sure that if I had been on a compact SUV (any brand compact SUV) I would've rolled over no matter what, you just can't go high and narrow safely. Like you said, let's keep it safe out there.
That's why I don't like compact SUV's, they are very easy to roll over, I once avoided an accident on the freeway on my suburban, the Suburban went sideways for a good distance but it never came on risk or rolling over, I'm sure that if I had been on a compact SUV (any brand compact SUV) I would've rolled over no matter what, you just can't go high and narrow safely. Like you said, let's keep it safe out there.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 63
Likes: 6
GL63 AMG
98 ML with ESP?
I do not know if the 98 ML had ESP but I believe it might have. In any case I doubt very seriously whether it would have made any difference. This happened very very quickly. Left front tire off, small cloud of dust (which caught our attention) and the vehicle was out of control. I have ESP on my wife's ML and have played with it more than once in a snow covered parking lot. I don't know that any system will overcome the physics of speed, lateral g loading and a high center of gravity.
I am not a prude and am not bashing SUV's, I own one. I have raced motorcycles, I waterski jump, barefoot waterski, and drive a Porshce. But I am begining to question the wisdom of the high center of gravity for vehicles that go a million miles and hour and are rarely used off rode. With all of the pluses that go with them, full time four wheel drive, towing ability etc. , ride height adjustment might be a welcome addition to the option list.
My 02.
Jim
00 ml 430
01 996
I am not a prude and am not bashing SUV's, I own one. I have raced motorcycles, I waterski jump, barefoot waterski, and drive a Porshce. But I am begining to question the wisdom of the high center of gravity for vehicles that go a million miles and hour and are rarely used off rode. With all of the pluses that go with them, full time four wheel drive, towing ability etc. , ride height adjustment might be a welcome addition to the option list.
My 02.
Jim
00 ml 430
01 996
