is it me or....lot of new members with performance issues?
07-06-2016, 12:35 PM
#26
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
All valid comments. Been there (still am actually) with some P-car purchases that in hindsight I shouldn't have made.
All C63s have by definition been driven hard (as in no one buys a C63 for the fuel economy) and most first owners never intended to keep it past the warranty period so they didn't exactly baby the car and waited for the oil to fully warm up before pushing it past 3K rpm. Some of them have had or still have an aftermarket tune, which after 6 years of runnign the car harder than designed has taken its toll on the engine which is now in the same state of fitness that a 15-year old motor with triple the miles would normally be in. Last but certainly not least, a significant percentage of people that are getting rid of them may be doing so because they detect the first signs of a problem and don't want to be faced with a costly repair so they dump the car.
The bad part is that while there are numerous perfectly maitained and reliable cars where the car hasnt' been abused and no expense has been spared on maintenance, all of them - the bad as well as the good ones - will equally take the depreciation hit. If you're one of the good guys and selling out of necessity (or boredom) - get all your service records together and offer a PPI to the prospective buyer at a shop of their choosing. To the prospective first-time buyers - find a decent MB shop in your area and get a full PPI done. Spending an extra $1K on three PPIs to find the right car is going to be a LOT cheaper than the $30K hole you may find yourself in with a car like this that has an issue that you're not aware of and will quickly escalate into a money pit.
All C63s have by definition been driven hard (as in no one buys a C63 for the fuel economy) and most first owners never intended to keep it past the warranty period so they didn't exactly baby the car and waited for the oil to fully warm up before pushing it past 3K rpm. Some of them have had or still have an aftermarket tune, which after 6 years of runnign the car harder than designed has taken its toll on the engine which is now in the same state of fitness that a 15-year old motor with triple the miles would normally be in. Last but certainly not least, a significant percentage of people that are getting rid of them may be doing so because they detect the first signs of a problem and don't want to be faced with a costly repair so they dump the car.
The bad part is that while there are numerous perfectly maitained and reliable cars where the car hasnt' been abused and no expense has been spared on maintenance, all of them - the bad as well as the good ones - will equally take the depreciation hit. If you're one of the good guys and selling out of necessity (or boredom) - get all your service records together and offer a PPI to the prospective buyer at a shop of their choosing. To the prospective first-time buyers - find a decent MB shop in your area and get a full PPI done. Spending an extra $1K on three PPIs to find the right car is going to be a LOT cheaper than the $30K hole you may find yourself in with a car like this that has an issue that you're not aware of and will quickly escalate into a money pit.
07-06-2016, 12:43 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
07-06-2016, 02:27 PM
#28
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Had to edit this as I cannot put in some symbols such as the 'greater than' icon.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Last edited by 604 C63; 07-06-2016 at 02:31 PM.
07-06-2016, 02:31 PM
#29
I just actually traded in my '09 that had some miles. Even at $26K with the heads done, coilovers, and a Wavetrac, all I really got were kids and tore kickers. The market for PFL cars is plummeting around here. Actually kinda miss that car as it had just a bit more edge than my '12 (that I completely love).
07-06-2016, 02:34 PM
#30
Had to edit this as I cannot put in some symbols such as the 'greater than' icon.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
the PFL has almost no luxury, and the FL models add a little more. I much prefer the electronics on the FL models but I like the look of the PFL better.
07-06-2016, 02:41 PM
#31
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Solid advice. Ignore at your own peril.
07-07-2016, 03:52 PM
#32
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C63 AMG, P30
Had to edit this as I cannot put in some symbols such as the 'greater than' icon.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Could not have said this better myself.
I always thought the FL looked muted compared to the PFL. Hood bulges seemed smaller, front bumper looked less aggressive, etc.
In my opinion (flame suit on), but definitely looks closer to a C300 or something.
On the W205 note, yes, looks incredibly muted compared to a PFL C63.
07-07-2016, 04:40 PM
#33
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07-07-2016, 05:19 PM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
The w205s are virtually indistinguishable from each other without a spotters guide. At least in our gen the hood was fairly obvious. The 205 63 is longer than the other models too but that length is between the wheels and mostly rear leg room. Very very very hard to spot, even from side profile.
07-08-2016, 12:24 AM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
07-08-2016, 02:34 AM
#42
Member
I remember a few years back when people were buying used Evo's and STi's for $15K. It was kinda terrifying to think that a 17yr old kid could afford one of those cars if he were bagging groceries or making iced mochas. I had an '05 and my insurance rates shot through the roof almost overnight. I don't think what's going on with the current crop of C63 owners is the same thing though. The prices of the W204 C63's just went down when the new W205 C63's came out last year. Lots of the later model ('12-'14) also seem to be coming off leases. It's a good time to be in the market right now.
As far as true cost of ownership, these cars are expensive but I'd wager my RS4 is higher in the "grab your ankles" department. Replacing 4 tires at a time because a flat couldn't be patched is no fun. Gotta love AWD. Having to do an $800 carbon clean every 30K miles too is a PITA. There's also a lot of labor costs to replace the clutch and a factory suspension that is prone to failure. Every car has its quirks but I'm certainly not going into this blind. It's worth it in my opinion though. I'm not sure we'll ever see a 6.2L V8 in a compact sedan again. Everything is about forced induction now.
As far as true cost of ownership, these cars are expensive but I'd wager my RS4 is higher in the "grab your ankles" department. Replacing 4 tires at a time because a flat couldn't be patched is no fun. Gotta love AWD. Having to do an $800 carbon clean every 30K miles too is a PITA. There's also a lot of labor costs to replace the clutch and a factory suspension that is prone to failure. Every car has its quirks but I'm certainly not going into this blind. It's worth it in my opinion though. I'm not sure we'll ever see a 6.2L V8 in a compact sedan again. Everything is about forced induction now.
07-08-2016, 01:24 PM
#43
Had to edit this as I cannot put in some symbols such as the 'greater than' icon.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Bear in mind, I am coming out of a P30, which rode super hard even tho I eventually put H&Rs, but it was not as smooth all around. With the FL theres of course the cosmetic changes, and the upgrade of the electronics and materials in the cabin, but the ride is smoother, the transmission is better, the throttle tip in isn't as sensitive I don't think, sport & sport+ change ride and steering effort as well, and I think the car sounds the same but the sound proofing seems a little better in the cabin. Essentially they gave you a little more luxury but they also filed down some of the rougher edges, and I actually liked those and felt a little more connected to the drive train in the PFL. I liked that it was a not terribly subtle car, and frankly it looked more bad *** too. Its really interesting to drive a 2012+, cos it really does feel like another model between the PFL and the W205. I personally think that the W205 took it too far, so I am in a nice spot with this one.
Let me simplify it. In MY opinion it works like this:
W204 PFL was more AMG than MB
W204 FL is a balance between AMG and MB
W205 is more MB than AMG
Does that make sense? It was originally ***** out an AMG vehicle, Mercedes be damned.
Then they struck a balance with the W204 FL, and now they have a vehicle that is Mercedes first and foremost and as AMG as they can get it. I loved the full AMG cos it was just a German muscle car, and I like the FL as well cos Im older now and can use a little comfort. Im not as keen on the W205.
Years ago, when I was shopping mine, I test drove both an 2012 FL Coupé and a 2011 PFL one after the other and I could see almost instantly that the old model was more "raw" then the new one. It's hard to pinpoint exactly all the reason why I felt that way but the biggest one I noticed instantly I think is the suspension is really more harsh on the old model.
It was weird because I was going there with buying the FL in mind as I liked the new interior (let's admit it, the PFL interior is pretty ugly and outdated) and better transmission (and it's awesome pop sound on upshift that the PFL is missing) and in the end, I actually choose and bought the PFL.
The more aggressive and better looking exterior + it's more "muscle car" feeling sold me on it.
I also agree about the W205 feeling less AMG. While I love a tons of stuff about the new car (especially the look of the Coupé) and I know it's better in many ways then the old car, I just can't seem to get as excited about it as I was for the W204.
The engine "downgrade" hurt it bad + in my area the price actually went up couple of thousands which I find hard to justify (maybe it's just the "new model" syndrome though and will adjust itself with time).
I'm looking forward soon to actually go test drive the new Coupé W205 model at my local dealer once they arrive. I really want to see how it feel for myself!
Hopefully I'll like it more then I think. I'm really worried about the engine noise not been as loud.
Like I said often to my tesla fan friends :
For these kind of luxury performance road cars, it's not about how fast the cars goes from 0-100km, it's about how the car does it.
07-08-2016, 03:38 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Who's a good car? Thats right. You're a good car. You know you are. Such a good car. That's right. koooootchee koooootchee too! Good car!
Seriously tho. That silver pops nice.
07-08-2016, 03:40 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I think you're right. For all the reasons you mention PLUS Audi has never given a fig about designing a car with service in mind. A 3 hr job on most cars is a 5 hr job on an Audi. I found that over and over and over again.
07-08-2016, 04:27 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thank you very much! You still liking the new wide stance on yours AMG3.2 
?
07-08-2016, 08:29 PM
#49
Super Member
