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I have a repeatable problem that I believe to be associated with the torque converter clutch lock up solenoid or the clutch itself. I occasionally get a shudder, similar to going over the "drunk bumps" on the side of the road. This is repeatable by setting cruise control on the highway and bumping it up 5mph. The higher the initial speed the more pronounced the shudder. Searching the internet it seems this is either a solenoid issue, a mechanical issue, or I have bad trans fluid. What can I do to further diagnose the problem?
Totally different cars I know but sounds similar to the shudder many crown vics have. I've rebuilt a number of 4R70w transmissions and have found the majority of them are initially corrected by full synthetic transmission fluid change combined with 10oz Lubeguard additive. Its the only additive I would ever use.
In other cases replacement of the TC solenoid combined with fresh synthetic fluid did the trick. This worked for units with generally lower mileage and reasonable maintenance history. I also made sure I manually removed and cleaned the valve body as that's the only way to remove trapped debris in the passages and valve bores. Fluid flush won't do it.
Taking a correlation to your issue I would suggest transmission fluid change as a first stop. I believe MB fluid is full synthetic. Note that electronic solenoids can also get debris trapped in their inlet screens or in the small bores they fit into. This allows fluid to seep past and can sometimes cause the chattering (shudder) symptoms.
The risk is that you do the fluid change and there is no change. I'm trying to get familiar with these transmissions - if its my own labor I will typically change the solenoid and any other small parts/gaskets while its apart anyway.
Not sure if any of this helps at all, I sort of "out loud" thought my way through possible actions.
I have a repeatable problem that I believe to be associated with the torque converter clutch lock up solenoid or the clutch itself. I occasionally get a shudder, similar to going over the "drunk bumps" on the side of the road. This is repeatable by setting cruise control on the highway and bumping it up 5mph. The higher the initial speed the more pronounced the shudder. Searching the internet it seems this is either a solenoid issue, a mechanical issue, or I have bad trans fluid. What can I do to further diagnose the problem?
Thanks for any help.
I drive the 2010 E550, which should be the same as yours in what comes to power line in the car. I also feel some slight shake sometimes when I take off easily and when on cruise and give it the 5 mph speed up. Never feel anything when I take off with some gas. For me this shake is more like engine shake and I have been thinking about checking on the engine/tranny mounts but it does not bother me much. Just enough to notice it.
I have a repeatable problem that I believe to be associated with the torque converter clutch lock up solenoid or the clutch itself. I occasionally get a shudder, similar to going over the "drunk bumps" on the side of the road. This is repeatable by setting cruise control on the highway and bumping it up 5mph. The higher the initial speed the more pronounced the shudder. Searching the internet it seems this is either a solenoid issue, a mechanical issue, or I have bad trans fluid. What can I do to further diagnose the problem?
Thanks for any help.
I have the same issue with my 2010 E550 4matic. It's felt when accelerating over the speed limit set on the cruise control and sometimes when going up certain hills, usually at speeds over 75mph. I'm going to do a fluid change soon in hope it will improve the issue. I was reading on another thread ( I think it was about a W221 S550 4matic) that the lockup clutch material could be the culprit in this case and the only way to get rid of it is to replace(or refurbish) the TC since the clutch is bonded to it. Someone else was saying they had a gearbox input shaft bearing failure and the fix was replacing the bearing, gearbox bell housing and oil pump, but I think that kind of failure should generate sounds and vibration at all speeds, not just in top gear at highway speeds. Keep us informed if you get to it before I do.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I priced out a trans flush from the dealer at ~$700. A local Mercedes mechanic wants ~$500. So I am going to opt for the ~$150-200 in parts and do the job myself. How do I verify the type of fluid needed? All I've seen so far is that the overflow plug in the pan is two different colors which keys you into which fluid to use.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I priced out a trans flush from the dealer at ~$700. A local Mercedes mechanic wants ~$500. So I am going to opt for the ~$150-200 in parts and do the job myself. How do I verify the type of fluid needed? All I've seen so far is that the overflow plug in the pan is two different colors which keys you into which fluid to use.
I believeyYou have the Reduced Friction one(blue), every car built after 6/21/2010 has it. It's ATF 134 FE or MB spec 236.15. There are readily available kits from the main import car retailers which contain the filter, bolts, the pan plug and TC bolt, etc.
Parts Have Been Ordered Transmission Fluid Kit : $150.91, includes 9 liters fluid, oil pan gasket w/ bolts and drain plug washer, filter w/ valve body seal, TC drain plug w/ seal, and a replacement overflow tube.
: $22.88, allows for connection to the valve body inlet for flushing/filling. Pyrometer : $19.98, allows for measuring fluid temperature -- I do not have access to the MB data stream so this will have to do.
Sitting at $193.77 for parts and tools. The dealership quoted $700+ dollars w/ labor and did not include the torque converter drain (I have no idea why).
I also plan on dropping down the valve body and checking for solenoids that need cleaned or replaced.
Some things to consider.
If you're dropping the valve body check if there is a gasket between the vb and case. For the effort of removing it and negligible cost of gasket its better to replace it to ensure no leakage from an old compressed gasket. I always use an in/lb torque wrench anytime I install a vb to ensure no warpage plus I check it against a straight edge upon removal. You'd be surprised sometimes how these aluminum pieces can warp a bit.
I will admit that my approach may be considered overkill but if I'm doing the work I try to replace any minor parts and gaskets encountered. Its easy to do at that time.
Parts Have Been Ordered Transmission Fluid Kit : $150.91, includes 9 liters fluid, oil pan gasket w/ bolts and drain plug washer, filter w/ valve body seal, TC drain plug w/ seal, and a replacement overflow tube. Fill Adapter : $22.88, allows for connection to the valve body inlet for flushing/filling. Pyrometer : $19.98, allows for measuring fluid temperature -- I do not have access to the MB data stream so this will have to do.
Sitting at $193.77 for parts and tools. The dealership quoted $700+ dollars w/ labor and did not include the torque converter drain (I have no idea why).
I also plan on dropping down the valve body and checking for solenoids that need cleaned or replaced.
Looks good! I hope it's going to fix your issue. I ordered a fluid kit with all the fixings too, figured it can't harm anything if changed ahead of schedule. When are you thinking of doing the job?
Looks good! I hope it's going to fix your issue. I ordered a fluid kit with all the fixings too, figured it can't harm anything if changed ahead of schedule. When are you thinking of doing the job?
The parts will be here on Friday. I have the fluid drained and the valve body removed. I am going to clean the valve screens today. The oil was brown - definitely old, but I didn't see any signs of damage. The magnets had collected a decent bit of fine metal dust, but nothing that was alarming to me.
On the transmission programming note -- is that something I can just go to the dealer and request nicely? Is it normal for them to offer the upgraded TCU flash?
I can post a picture to better explain what I'm about to say, but the slide or rail that guides the manual valve has two quite small plastic tabs towards the end of the maximum travel. One of the tabs snapped off fairly cleanly. I'm not sure how it will affect the transmission -- it seems like it would cause the manual valve to have a little extra play...which may be troublesome. I'd like to epoxy it back together -- does anyone know what type of epoxy is safe/smart to use on something like this? Plastic to plastic adhesion in an oil soaked environment w/ a moderately high heat application.
The parts will be here on Friday. I have the fluid drained and the valve body removed. I am going to clean the valve screens today. The oil was brown - definitely old, but I didn't see any signs of damage. The magnets had collected a decent bit of fine metal dust, but nothing that was alarming to me.
On the transmission programming note -- is that something I can just go to the dealer and request nicely? Is it normal for them to offer the upgraded TCU flash?
I can post a picture to better explain what I'm about to say, but the slide or rail that guides the manual valve has two quite small plastic tabs towards the end of the maximum travel. One of the tabs snapped off fairly cleanly. I'm not sure how it will affect the transmission -- it seems like it would cause the manual valve to have a little extra play...which may be troublesome. I'd like to epoxy it back together -- does anyone know what type of epoxy is safe/smart to use on something like this? Plastic to plastic adhesion in an oil soaked environment w/ a moderately high heat application.
Sorry to hear about your broken tab. I found this on google, but you might want to reinforce the weld somehow though : https://www.jbweld.com/products/highheat-epoxy-putty. Also, if you're a Permatex fan you could try this https://www.permatex.com/products/ad...-welder-epoxy/. Unfortunately I haven't used any of them. Ideally you should replace the whole assembly if possible.
The TCU flash sounds like a good ideea, I wonder how much they could charge for it if they're not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. Good luck with the job, keep us posted!
Extra play in the manual valve is not something you want. It needs to position fairly precisely into and out of the bore in the valve body in order to provide fluid fill and exhaust as required to the different internal passages. An offset manual valve can impact fluid movement.
A picture will help but personally I'm doubtful that an epoxy fix will work long term in that environment. Due to the effort to get back into the unit you may want to think about replacing the piece if possible.
Here are some pictures of the tab that broke. There are several shots here, one shows the opposite side tab that is still intact.
broken side
view of both sides
view of good side
That looks pretty serious. Did you manage to find a part number for it? I can look for one for you if you don't have EWA installed or access to it. The King is usually better at pinpointing part numbers but I'll try and help.
I haven't gotten into my Mercedes repairs extensively and its my first one, so I'm not even sure what EWA is. If you could find something that would be incredible. I think that piece is fully molded with the whole TCU(TCM?) I'm not sure if there is a part other than the whole unit.
Edited: I first thought that TCU issues may have meant a valve body replacement but it looks like the TCU can be replaced. Probably pricey. But it looks like the remaining tab on the broken side may still provide the intended stop function? You may have lucked out if so. If I'm looking at it right the yellow part is the end holder of the manual valve which slides toward and away from the viewer in the pics. That broken section is what the valve runs up against? However is there also a detent spring that also clicks the valve into the proper position? In the Ford/GM auto units you can feel the spring detente (range selector lever) steps or stops when you use the shift lever. However on the MB there's an electronic control doing this but it would still seem that a detent spring is still used. Looks like one at the lower left with roller end close to the viewer? That would fit into a range selector lever as you re-install the valve body. If so then the range selector lever should hold the manual valve in the correct position.
For what its worth I would consider a try it as is. I would be concerned about a glue repair coming loose leaving the broken section drifting around inside the transmission.
Edited: I first thought that TCU issues may have meant a valve body replacement but it looks like the TCU can be replaced. Probably pricey. But it looks like the remaining tab on the broken side may still provide the intended stop function? You may have lucked out if so. If I'm looking at it right the yellow part is the end holder of the manual valve which slides toward and away from the viewer in the pics. That broken section is what the valve runs up against? However is there also a detent spring that also clicks the valve into the proper position? In the Ford/GM auto units you can feel the spring detente (range selector lever) steps or stops when you use the shift lever. However on the MB there's an electronic control doing this but it would still seem that a detent spring is still used. Looks like one at the lower left with roller end close to the viewer? That would fit into a range selector lever as you re-install the valve body. If so then the range selector lever should hold the manual valve in the correct position.
For what its worth I would consider a try it as is. I would be concerned about a glue repair coming loose leaving the broken section drifting around inside the transmission.
I'm inclined to agree with you on trying it as is. We entertained the epoxy idea and rather quickly came to the conclusion you did. I'd hate for that piece to come loose and go floating around in my transmission. We are going to put it back together as is and see how she does. I think you're dead on with the range selector lever holding the manual valve in position. The stops there are just to pull the valve out manually to clean the magnet as far as I can tell.
I haven't gotten into my Mercedes repairs extensively and its my first one, so I'm not even sure what EWA is. If you could find something that would be incredible. I think that piece is fully molded with the whole TCU(TCM?) I'm not sure if there is a part other than the whole unit.
Morning! Sorry for the long time to respond, I was doing research last night for a few hours and then again this morning with no luck until a few minutes ago. I think I found the part you're looking for( 741M in the linked pic), not so sure about the possibility of ordering it separately, but you could message these guys ( make sure you have google translate on hand and switched to Deutsch) and see if they could help. Another option could be 3D printing the part, if all else fails, but there should be used parts available online, they will be very difficult to find.
I found the stuff here: http://docplayer.net/42124067-722-9-rwd-7-speed-mercedes-c-center-planet-fahrzeugtechnik-hetzel-telefon-002-overhaul-kit.html
I also found it here in english, the part(refference) number seems to be 288741M-1. Site :http://www.cctransmissionparts.com/d...9_Mercedes.pdf and they have a 1-800 number!
Thanks Oda. It looks like 741M is the manual valve itself, the tab that broke off is part of 446 where 741M slides in. That 446 is the entire TCU which would be anywhere from $500 - $1000 to get a new one and have it programmed. I'm going to just pray that manual valve sits in just dandy as is.
Thanks Oda. It looks like 741M is the manual valve itself, the tab that broke off is part of 446 where 741M slides in. That 446 is the entire TCU which would be anywhere from $500 - $1000 to get a new one and have it programmed. I'm going to just pray that manual valve sits in just dandy as is.
Oh, I see now. I hope it will work too, sorry I couldn't be more helpful. I'll keep an eye out for tcu bodies/frames.
11-17-2017, 09:42 PM
