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Decreasing belt slip with Carbinite coating on supercharger pulley?
I've logged some noticeable belt slip (2-3 psi) and visually see a lot of belt dust under/around the engine cover. I'm running a 77mm upper with stock lower pulley, 525 belt, belt wrap kit, cooling mods, headers, and larger throttle body. With stock headers/TB, this setup is supposed to make around 13 psi, so a 1 psi loss with breathing mods sounds reasonable. I have a brand new tensioner, have smoked the engine at 5 psi, pressure tested the engine at 15 psi, performed a compression & leak test, and tried 2 different belts (Gates RPM and Gates Green HD) with no resolution. The drop in boost is most noticeable at low RPMs (peak torque), high RPMs (peak horsepower), and it's not as bad in the middle of the rev range. The Gates RPM belt is specifically designed for forced induction but I've actually seen worse results with it when compared to the Green belt.
I know that running a larger crank pulley and stock (or larger) supercharger pulley would result in more grip but am uninterested in changing the crank pulley at this time. I've ordered a Continental Elite belt (formerly Goodyear Gatorback) in the 525 and 521 size to try out but don't have much faith in them fixing the slip.
When searching for solutions, I came across a company called "Carbinite". They offer a coating that is essentially welded into the grooves of the supercharger pulley thus giving the belt more traction by giving the grooves a texture almost like a 100 grit sandpaper.
The only cons that I can see is that this coating does reduce belt life and have read various results on real world belt longevity. The company states that you should expect around 50k miles on a daily driven vehicle and less than half that on a vehicle that is taken to the track every week or is really beat on daily. I have visited some other forums (svt, hellcat, LS) and have seen actual logs and testimonials posted of positive results after getting this coating applied. I have also read some people state that their belts disintegrated in 500 miles and some that have 50k miles with no problems. I assume that most of this has to be contributed to proper pulley alignment, correct belt size, and good tensioner health though as a sloppy/loose belt would definitely glide over the coating and wear the rubber down.
So does anyone have any personal experience with this using this coating? This place is actually local to me and I was planning on driving up Monday morning to check out their facility and have the coating applied while I wait for it.
I wonder... At each psi increase the supercharger makes, what the torque value increase is to belt slip? At some point dependent on your ratio you would need to go to a bigger overall belt not length but width. If you could know that value, you can adjust up or down to the psi figure.
Yes please!!!! Are you going to be the test dummy? If so, please share the results . Thank you!!!
I will be taking the leap of faith here and trying it out
Originally Posted by Tomsti
I wonder... At each psi increase the supercharger makes, what the torque value increase is to belt slip? At some point dependent on your ratio you would need to go to a bigger overall belt not length but width. If you could know that value, you can adjust up or down to the psi figure.
Or just run it... Sounds like a fun project
Hoping for good results as each psi lost should be worth 15-20 HP each!
Originally Posted by 99lightning
A adjustable tensioner that does not bounce would help as well
Absolutely agree with this. I've been hoping that someone would make one for the longest time but it seems that we're stock with the stock tensioner as our one and only option.
After a little more research, I believe that I might've found a better option. I came across a company that manufactures their own supercharger pulleys and are big in the CTS-V and Corvette world. They do something similar to the Carbinite process but use CNC micro machining to increase traction instead of welding/fusing additional material. It is a much more refined and controlled process that allows that entire top/bottom of the V grooves to be cut. Supposedly it's a lot easier on the belt as well as compared to the Carbinite process. I pulled off my pulley this morning and dropped it in the mail. I will be receiving it back by the end of this upcoming week and will post my results. I already have a lot of good data to make an honest before/after comparison to see if this actually works, not just a "seat of the pants" assessment.
B- stupid question, but where did you hook the smoker up to? Thx!
Most people attach a hose to this metal tube on the supercharger snout (remove rubber cap). I like to use this rubber hose in the rear instead as it fits the tip of my smoke line output better.
A adjustable tensioner that does not bounce would help as well
I made an adjustable spring loaded tensioner a while back.Put a lot of work and thought into it. You could adjust the preload on the pulley and it worked great.But when I decided to buy a belt wrap kit, didn't need it anymore.
I made an adjustable spring loaded tensioner a while back.Put a lot of work and thought into it. You could adjust the preload on the pulley and it worked great.But when I decided to buy a belt wrap kit, didn't need it anymore.
I have belt wrap kits for both of my SL55 and E55. I quickly saw the location of the extra idler pulley could be moved to give even more contact area. This is a 74mm pulley with no slippage, The apparent dust was from a quick filing of the of the stud heads on the remainder of the clutch to stop a 'ticking' from a slight interference with the idler pulley. Also choosing a belt which is very hard to get on will leave the adjuster closer to maximum tension.
I'll be getting my pulley back tomorrow and will be doing some logging to see if it has made any appreciable difference when compared to my baseline data.
Originally Posted by oneslow55
I had mine coated really didn’t do much ,I used a smaller belt and had best results that way
Glad that I decided to try this other machining process instead of the Carbinite since you didn't have much luck with it.
Originally Posted by SICAMG
I made an adjustable spring loaded tensioner a while back.Put a lot of work and thought into it. You could adjust the preload on the pulley and it worked great.But when I decided to buy a belt wrap kit, didn't need it anymore.
Would also be interested in seeing what you did here also.
I made an adjustable spring loaded tensioner a while back.Put a lot of work and thought into it. You could adjust the preload on the pulley and it worked great.But when I decided to buy a belt wrap kit, didn't need it anymore.
Can you send me a picture to see what you did, and can you tell me What was the effect? How does this affected the engine and an image can it drive like this?
so had did it go? Are you running a belt wrap kit with it? What size pulley?
I am running bwk with 68 fixed and it is Griptec. From what Ive seen, Max boost got up to 15 psi at WOT on third gear; haven’t track it yet since shutdowns. I’m going to look at my pass data log to see if there’s a difference when I tracked her with 68 fixed and without the Griptec.
I’m about to install water/meth and drop down to 77 clutched..thinking about going with griptec and no belt wrap kit... maybe it will suffice? Thoughts?
02-16-2018, 06:13 PM
