Custom M177 turbo housing/brackets?
05-22-2019, 10:12 AM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Custom M177 turbo housing/brackets?
Excuse my ignorance, I am a noob when it comes to this stuff. I did a lot of research before asking this, but I'm reaching a limit on the knowledge of what's immediately available online these days.
Say I wanted to put 2 larger turbos on my car, but not the off the shelf Renntech/Weistec/Yabeela stuff. I'm mainly just asking this from a hypothetical perspective, not so much a practical standpoint.
https://www.precisionturbo.net/Stree...PT5862-CEA/634
How did Yabeela take a Precision Turbo, then get it to a position where it is mountable on our cars / in our engine bay? The housing can't be too big or it wouldn't fit, and it seems they created this custom.
What is the process for that like? Likely somebody over at Yabeela 3D scanned / drafted compressor / turbine housing, then cut a deal with a manufacturer/fab shop to get a limited run of these housings build. Some kind of mold is cast and custom fabrication is done.
What material are these housings? Is this kind of fabrication not available to one-off consumers the way it is for shops/businesses? Nobody seems to make a "off the shelf" M177 turbo housing.
Is this all kept under wraps/hush hush because it is how businesses make their money? Or am I just wildly off?
Say I wanted to put 2 larger turbos on my car, but not the off the shelf Renntech/Weistec/Yabeela stuff. I'm mainly just asking this from a hypothetical perspective, not so much a practical standpoint.
https://www.precisionturbo.net/Stree...PT5862-CEA/634
How did Yabeela take a Precision Turbo, then get it to a position where it is mountable on our cars / in our engine bay? The housing can't be too big or it wouldn't fit, and it seems they created this custom.
What is the process for that like? Likely somebody over at Yabeela 3D scanned / drafted compressor / turbine housing, then cut a deal with a manufacturer/fab shop to get a limited run of these housings build. Some kind of mold is cast and custom fabrication is done.
What material are these housings? Is this kind of fabrication not available to one-off consumers the way it is for shops/businesses? Nobody seems to make a "off the shelf" M177 turbo housing.
Is this all kept under wraps/hush hush because it is how businesses make their money? Or am I just wildly off?
05-22-2019, 11:14 AM
#2
Member
Excuse my ignorance, I am a noob when it comes to this stuff. I did a lot of research before asking this, but I'm reaching a limit on the knowledge of what's immediately available online these days.
Say I wanted to put 2 larger turbos on my car, but not the off the shelf Renntech/Weistec/Yabeela stuff. I'm mainly just asking this from a hypothetical perspective, not so much a practical standpoint.
https://www.precisionturbo.net/Stree...PT5862-CEA/634
How did Yabeela take a Precision Turbo, then get it to a position where it is mountable on our cars / in our engine bay? The housing can't be too big or it wouldn't fit, and it seems they created this custom.
What is the process for that like? Likely somebody over at Yabeela 3D scanned / drafted compressor / turbine housing, then cut a deal with a manufacturer/fab shop to get a limited run of these housings build. Some kind of mold is cast and custom fabrication is done.
What material are these housings? Is this kind of fabrication not available to one-off consumers the way it is for shops/businesses? Nobody seems to make a "off the shelf" M177 turbo housing.
Is this all kept under wraps/hush hush because it is how businesses make their money? Or am I just wildly off?
Say I wanted to put 2 larger turbos on my car, but not the off the shelf Renntech/Weistec/Yabeela stuff. I'm mainly just asking this from a hypothetical perspective, not so much a practical standpoint.
https://www.precisionturbo.net/Stree...PT5862-CEA/634
How did Yabeela take a Precision Turbo, then get it to a position where it is mountable on our cars / in our engine bay? The housing can't be too big or it wouldn't fit, and it seems they created this custom.
What is the process for that like? Likely somebody over at Yabeela 3D scanned / drafted compressor / turbine housing, then cut a deal with a manufacturer/fab shop to get a limited run of these housings build. Some kind of mold is cast and custom fabrication is done.
What material are these housings? Is this kind of fabrication not available to one-off consumers the way it is for shops/businesses? Nobody seems to make a "off the shelf" M177 turbo housing.
Is this all kept under wraps/hush hush because it is how businesses make their money? Or am I just wildly off?
05-23-2019, 06:30 AM
#5
05-25-2019, 07:25 PM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
What is stopping somebody from buying Garrett turbos, 3D scanning Weistec or similar housings, getting a limited run (10-20 pieces) cast, and undercutting the market?
Unless I'm wildly misestimating, Garrett turbos are like $1.5k-$2k a piece for nice dual ball bearing. $4k for turbos leaves $6k for housings... I have a feeling they don't cost more than... $100-$1,000 to make?
05-26-2019, 03:47 AM
#7
I'm trying to understand why the only brand on the market with a bolt on turbo upgrade is Weistec. Is it because there is no demand for this car? I feel like I'm sitting on a semi-good business opportunity if I can figure out how to get compatible housings 3D scanned then cast appropriately by a professional company familiar with turbo housings.
There is nothing bolt on for E63 at the moment. Yabella and Weistec have a similar product. Fits in GT, C63, GLC...
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05-28-2019, 10:31 AM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Pure Turbo = you send them your turbos and they machine bigger wheels into your stock housing. Not a bad option, but I had some guy down here in Miami that says he'll do it for $1.5k instead of the $3.5k from Pure. I agree that Pure probably has the better brand name, but the Miami business has been around for years and has plenty of positive reviews.
GAD Motorsport doesn't have a website where you can see prices.
Weistec wants $10k, which isn't a terrible price, but when you look at the fact that they are selling you 2 $1.5k Garrett turbos with about $500-$1k in stainless steel/aluminum cast housings around them... kind of an ouchie profit margin wise. I get they have to recoup tooling costs from limited runs, but it's still fun to think about a world where a company doesn't recoup thousands of dollars in R&D money per sale.
Renntech will sell you the same stock Borgwarner $1k turbo with the same mods Pure Turbos does (aka stock housings), for $17k. Ouch. Super mega ouch.
I contacted a few companies and the first offer I have so far is:
$20k tooling up front
$200 in stainless steel/materials for exhaust housing
$200 for aluminum/materials on compressor cover
$200 for exhaust housing machining
$200 for compressor cover machining
$800 in machining/materials (ignoring the massive $20k tooling up front cost) * 2 turbos = ~$1.5k
Get some dual 58mm Garrett/Precision turbos for $1.5k-$2k a pop. $3k-$4k in turbos + $1.5k in machining/materials = $4.5k - $5.5k, and that's with 0 connections paying retail on everything.
I have a very large feeling that if I can get an accurate 3D rendering of the housings for the turbos then find some Garrett/Precision wheels/cartridges that fit, I might just have a viable business plan. I personally wouldn't do it, but... there's a huge website dedicated solely to finding "good" Chinese manufacturers who would be more than happy to cast me some stainless steel/aluminum in whatever shape I want. Most likely for less than $20k up front too :P
I could be very wrong though. Curious to hear thoughts from anybody else who has more experience in all of this.
Edit: I lied. Renntech will give you a tune (which is basically a $99 map but they charge you $3.5k for it), $200 air filters (retail, but they list them as $380 on their website
), useless blow-off valve adapters for noises (another $350), and a fuel system with unknown details that actually sounds interesting) for $17k
GAD Motorsport doesn't have a website where you can see prices.
Weistec wants $10k, which isn't a terrible price, but when you look at the fact that they are selling you 2 $1.5k Garrett turbos with about $500-$1k in stainless steel/aluminum cast housings around them... kind of an ouchie profit margin wise. I get they have to recoup tooling costs from limited runs, but it's still fun to think about a world where a company doesn't recoup thousands of dollars in R&D money per sale.
Renntech will sell you the same stock Borgwarner $1k turbo with the same mods Pure Turbos does (aka stock housings), for $17k. Ouch. Super mega ouch.
I contacted a few companies and the first offer I have so far is:
$20k tooling up front
$200 in stainless steel/materials for exhaust housing
$200 for aluminum/materials on compressor cover
$200 for exhaust housing machining
$200 for compressor cover machining
$800 in machining/materials (ignoring the massive $20k tooling up front cost) * 2 turbos = ~$1.5k
Get some dual 58mm Garrett/Precision turbos for $1.5k-$2k a pop. $3k-$4k in turbos + $1.5k in machining/materials = $4.5k - $5.5k, and that's with 0 connections paying retail on everything.
I have a very large feeling that if I can get an accurate 3D rendering of the housings for the turbos then find some Garrett/Precision wheels/cartridges that fit, I might just have a viable business plan. I personally wouldn't do it, but... there's a huge website dedicated solely to finding "good" Chinese manufacturers who would be more than happy to cast me some stainless steel/aluminum in whatever shape I want. Most likely for less than $20k up front too :P
I could be very wrong though. Curious to hear thoughts from anybody else who has more experience in all of this.
Edit: I lied. Renntech will give you a tune (which is basically a $99 map but they charge you $3.5k for it), $200 air filters (retail, but they list them as $380 on their website
), useless blow-off valve adapters for noises (another $350), and a fuel system with unknown details that actually sounds interesting) for $17k
Last edited by MuffinFlavored; 05-28-2019 at 10:33 AM.
05-28-2019, 11:27 AM
#10
Pure Turbo = you send them your turbos and they machine bigger wheels into your stock housing. Not a bad option, but I had some guy down here in Miami that says he'll do it for $1.5k instead of the $3.5k from Pure. I agree that Pure probably has the better brand name, but the Miami business has been around for years and has plenty of positive reviews.
GAD Motorsport doesn't have a website where you can see prices.
Weistec wants $10k, which isn't a terrible price, but when you look at the fact that they are selling you 2 $1.5k Garrett turbos with about $500-$1k in stainless steel/aluminum cast housings around them... kind of an ouchie profit margin wise. I get they have to recoup tooling costs from limited runs, but it's still fun to think about a world where a company doesn't recoup thousands of dollars in R&D money per sale.
Renntech will sell you the same stock Borgwarner $1k turbo with the same mods Pure Turbos does (aka stock housings), for $17k. Ouch. Super mega ouch.
I contacted a few companies and the first offer I have so far is:
$20k tooling up front
$200 in stainless steel/materials for exhaust housing
$200 for aluminum/materials on compressor cover
$200 for exhaust housing machining
$200 for compressor cover machining
$800 in machining/materials (ignoring the massive $20k tooling up front cost) * 2 turbos = ~$1.5k
Get some dual 58mm Garrett/Precision turbos for $1.5k-$2k a pop. $3k-$4k in turbos + $1.5k in machining/materials = $4.5k - $5.5k, and that's with 0 connections paying retail on everything.
I have a very large feeling that if I can get an accurate 3D rendering of the housings for the turbos then find some Garrett/Precision wheels/cartridges that fit, I might just have a viable business plan. I personally wouldn't do it, but... there's a huge website dedicated solely to finding "good" Chinese manufacturers who would be more than happy to cast me some stainless steel/aluminum in whatever shape I want. Most likely for less than $20k up front too :P
I could be very wrong though. Curious to hear thoughts from anybody else who has more experience in all of this.
Edit: I lied. Renntech will give you a tune (which is basically a $99 map but they charge you $3.5k for it), $200 air filters (retail, but they list them as $380 on their website), useless blow-off valve adapters for noises (another $350), and a fuel system with unknown details that actually sounds interesting) for $17k
GAD Motorsport doesn't have a website where you can see prices.
Weistec wants $10k, which isn't a terrible price, but when you look at the fact that they are selling you 2 $1.5k Garrett turbos with about $500-$1k in stainless steel/aluminum cast housings around them... kind of an ouchie profit margin wise. I get they have to recoup tooling costs from limited runs, but it's still fun to think about a world where a company doesn't recoup thousands of dollars in R&D money per sale.
Renntech will sell you the same stock Borgwarner $1k turbo with the same mods Pure Turbos does (aka stock housings), for $17k. Ouch. Super mega ouch.
I contacted a few companies and the first offer I have so far is:
$20k tooling up front
$200 in stainless steel/materials for exhaust housing
$200 for aluminum/materials on compressor cover
$200 for exhaust housing machining
$200 for compressor cover machining
$800 in machining/materials (ignoring the massive $20k tooling up front cost) * 2 turbos = ~$1.5k
Get some dual 58mm Garrett/Precision turbos for $1.5k-$2k a pop. $3k-$4k in turbos + $1.5k in machining/materials = $4.5k - $5.5k, and that's with 0 connections paying retail on everything.
I have a very large feeling that if I can get an accurate 3D rendering of the housings for the turbos then find some Garrett/Precision wheels/cartridges that fit, I might just have a viable business plan. I personally wouldn't do it, but... there's a huge website dedicated solely to finding "good" Chinese manufacturers who would be more than happy to cast me some stainless steel/aluminum in whatever shape I want. Most likely for less than $20k up front too :P
I could be very wrong though. Curious to hear thoughts from anybody else who has more experience in all of this.
Edit: I lied. Renntech will give you a tune (which is basically a $99 map but they charge you $3.5k for it), $200 air filters (retail, but they list them as $380 on their website
), useless blow-off valve adapters for noises (another $350), and a fuel system with unknown details that actually sounds interesting) for $17k
05-28-2019, 01:33 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
> Do you really think sourcing some parts from China is all it takes to put together a quality and reliable kit for a $120k Mercedes? Good luck.
You have to agree that, non-moving parts like stainless steel and aluminum housings are pretty standard, no?
Where do you think Weistec and Renntech get their housings from?
You have to agree that, non-moving parts like stainless steel and aluminum housings are pretty standard, no?
Where do you think Weistec and Renntech get their housings from?
05-28-2019, 03:01 PM
#12
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2018 E63S AMG
One has to be very careful when specifying and inspecting metal products from China.
China has a very bad rep for parts quality for good reason. Lots of counter-fit parts and sub quality parts marked as higher grade.
Not that China can't produce high quality item, they certainly can. You just have to be really careful.
China has a very bad rep for parts quality for good reason. Lots of counter-fit parts and sub quality parts marked as higher grade.
Not that China can't produce high quality item, they certainly can. You just have to be really careful.
05-28-2019, 06:36 PM
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
One has to be very careful when specifying and inspecting metal products from China.
China has a very bad rep for parts quality for good reason. Lots of counter-fit parts and sub quality parts marked as higher grade.
Not that China can't produce high quality item, they certainly can. You just have to be really careful.
China has a very bad rep for parts quality for good reason. Lots of counter-fit parts and sub quality parts marked as higher grade.
Not that China can't produce high quality item, they certainly can. You just have to be really careful.
Does anybody know any companies that can turn samples/3D renders into turbo housings?
05-28-2019, 07:17 PM
#14
> Do you really think sourcing some parts from China is all it takes to put together a quality and reliable kit for a $120k Mercedes? Good luck.
You have to agree that, non-moving parts like stainless steel and aluminum housings are pretty standard, no?
Where do you think Weistec and Renntech get their housings from?
You have to agree that, non-moving parts like stainless steel and aluminum housings are pretty standard, no?
Where do you think Weistec and Renntech get their housings from?
05-28-2019, 10:55 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
If I put the same Precision turbo wheel/cartridge/impeller in housings that are 3D scanned from the same Yabeela housings then cast equivalently, what am I missing? Magic pixie dust?
