E-Class (W212) 2010 - 2016: E 350, E 550

W212 headlight fogging (moisture)

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Old 11-10-2023, 02:55 AM
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2015 E63 S
W212 headlight fogging (moisture)

I've sourced vast amounts of information from this forum, and I thought it might be time for me to give something back. The headlights on my 2015 E63, which were replaced under warranty in 2018 due to moisture/fogging issues have started fogging again. Alas, my car is now on aftermarket (EZ Care) warranty and the headlights are no longer covered. Time for personal intervention! An older thread in the W212 forum led me to the attached XENTRY service bulletin. The parts are all still available from MB dealers - I just purchased them two months ago.

The original headlights in my car had the provision for the service covers and desiccant packs. The updated units (installed under warranty replacement) do not, and you have to take the drastic step of using a hot knife to cut out the port for the service cap. The service bulletin states that the headlights must be removed from the car to perform this service. Well, I decided to challenge that idea. Removing the entire front of the car seemed unnecessary.

I purchased a small hot knife from a local craft store. The "x-acto" style knife blade did not retain enough heat to melt through the headlight plastic. I had to use the thicker 45 degree brass tip, which conveniently allowed the hot knife to fit into the open area behind the headlight to achieve the proper cut angle.

I've attached the service bulleting .pdf and a few pictures of the process. The first picture is the uncut driver's headlight. The second is the cutout after removal from the housing.

Be aware that precision is critical. If you cut the wrong part of the headlight service port outline, the cap will not fit, and you'll have a huge gaping hole in your very expensive headlight housing. The picture of the pick tool and small black plastic bits highlights the melted plastic slag that is left behind after cutting the opening. The opening needs to be smoothed out, and globs of the melted plastic removed to make the cap fit nicely. I applied wide masking tape to the underside of the cutout while I used a pick tool to pry off the hardened little globs of melted plastic. Be patient!

I'm done with the driver's side (the tighter area in which to work), now on to the passenger side. I will provide an update when I get the job done. Please be patient if you have questions as it may take me a few days to reply due to current work schedule, but I'll be happy to provide more info!
Attached Thumbnails W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_6858.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7813.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7816.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7817.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7819.jpg  

W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7810.jpg  
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Old 11-10-2023, 09:41 AM
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W212 M276 DELA 30 ; W211 OM642 ; R107 M117, Sierra 1500 LZ0
Out of curiosity, do you garage your car at home? I ask because you said you're in the Timber capital, so I presume you're in the rainy pacific northwest or canada? I haven't seen any moisture problems on any facelift W212s here in VA. That said, the amount of European SUVs that end up almost totaled because of water intrusion from clogged sunroof drains getting into the electronics placed in the floorboards for weight purposes is pretty high, and almost all of those are due to parking outside the majority of the car's life. Not that any of that helps you now, but it seems to me that the single largest preserver of modern cars is to ensure they're out of the weather when not driving. Just too many electronics that are poorly protected from the elements. For example, my W211 touch entry door handles repeatedly failed when I left the car in harsher elements. If I leave my 211 with failed door handles in a dry garage for a couple of weeks.. they actually start working again.
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Old 11-10-2023, 10:31 AM
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Ha! What a royal goof up on the updated headlight. I wonder what engineer got spanked for that one. Interestingly, I had the driver's side headlight on my 2015 SL400 fog up. I just opened the bulb access cap and let it "dry out". I then put a desiccant pack in it and have not had any more problems. I now need to see if there is a pocket in my headlight for the packet.
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Old 11-10-2023, 02:48 PM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Sometimes when I washed my car where engine was a bit warm, I get minor fogging on my 640/641 LED, but it will go away soon.

The important question I have for MB is, how the hell the cooling fan inside discharge the heat if the light is such a CLOSED SYSTEM ?
I never could find them vent holes for airflow...that is true.



Old 11-10-2023, 03:00 PM
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@S-Prihadi , I think the fan cools (circulates air around) the outside of the enclosure , not air within the "lamp area". The access cover is not air tight at all.
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Old 11-10-2023, 03:05 PM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
TSB: NO GO!

Originally Posted by Cartac
I've sourced vast amounts of information from this forum, and I thought it might be time for me to give something back.

The headlights on my 2015 E63, which were replaced under warranty in 2018 due to moisture/fogging issues have started fogging again. Alas, my car is now on aftermarket (EZ Care) warranty and the headlights are no longer covered. Time for personal intervention! An older thread in the W212 forum led me to the attached XENTRY service bulletin. The parts are all still available from MB dealers - I just purchased them two months ago.

The original headlights in my car had the provision for the service covers and desiccant packs. The updated units (installed under warranty replacement) do not, and you have to take the drastic step of using a hot knife to cut out the port for the service cap. The service bulletin states that the headlights must be removed from the car to perform this service. Well, I decided to challenge that idea. Removing the entire front of the car seemed unnecessary.

I purchased a small hot knife from a local craft store. The "x-acto" style knife blade did not retain enough heat to melt through the headlight plastic. I had to use the thicker 45 degree brass tip, which conveniently allowed the hot knife to fit into the open area behind the headlight to achieve the proper cut angle.

I've attached the service bulleting .pdf and a few pictures of the process. The first picture is the uncut driver's headlight. The second is the cutout after removal from the housing.

Be aware that precision is critical. If you cut the wrong part of the headlight service port outline, the cap will not fit, and you'll have a huge gaping hole in your very expensive headlight housing. The picture of the pick tool and small black plastic bits highlights the melted plastic slag that is left behind after cutting the opening. The opening needs to be smoothed out, and globs of the melted plastic removed to make the cap fit nicely. I applied wide masking tape to the underside of the cutout while I used a pick tool to pry off the hardened little globs of melted plastic. Be patient!

I'm done with the driver's side (the tighter area in which to work), now on to the passenger side. I will provide an update when I get the job done. Please be patient if you have questions as it may take me a few days to reply due to current work schedule, but I'll be happy to provide more info!
CART, thank you for your research material. Many of use deal with the same amazing issue of condensing HL.


> KEEP UP SERVICES:
I don't think the TSB is a good solution. It only creates new additional service needs without addressing the issue.


DESICCANT SALT FOR DAMP HL.... 😳
TSB is grossly misleading: "Nothing more, nothing less" - (Tasos!)

This section is misrepresenting the truth... read it:

bull or horse ....??
This is a ridiculous : Mercedes through this document wants us to believe these headlights are closed system where moisture permeates through the plastic. Did I read that correctly??

TSB writing team recommend dealers to install desiccant pack as solution - Seriously?

> DESICCANT PACK:
It is very effective way to capture moisture, period.
What happens once material is saturated? No additional moisture can be captured and water begins to shade.
Extra-high ambient moisture level from all accumulated source!! Engineering testing quickly brings justice to stupid ideas.

Not desiccant band-aid... back to square one!

> FORWARD:
I have not had the nerve to drop whole bumper to rework my LED HL. I am itching & strongly motivated to deal with that unprotected module and harness.

The venting system allows open air circulation inside optical enclosure. That creates condensation at the front corners that are coldest internal area. Condensation accumulate to puddle at the bottom where unprotected electronic is mounted.


I am unsure what practically can be done here:
  1. we need LED fan cooling circulation.
  2. we want a sealed optical enclosure.


Heatsink and cooling fan detail
Above picture shows LED has a heatsink protruding externally for HL fan to blow cold - That seems satisfying - this gives me hope for a solution.

-- Then why is optic left open/vented? No heat needs to be removed from inside because cooling is done externaly.
Block air inlets to create sealed enclosure or partially block inlet to reduce circulation inside. Semi-sealed may be the ticket here.
✌️

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-10-2023 at 03:22 PM. Reason: heatsink pic
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Old 11-10-2023, 03:22 PM
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DubVBenz - I completely agree that climate and storage are major factors in the headlight fogging issue. I'm located in southern Oregon which is indeed very moist. However, this car is garaged in a climate controlled space. I keep humidity below 60%, and temperature between 45 and 100 F. It's only been in Oregon for one year, and before that Thousand Oaks, CA, where I kept the garage climate controlled as well. The car does occasionally see rainy/wet drives and has spent a couple weeks a year in parking garages at the airport or hotels, but it's really quite rare that it sits outside for more than a few days at a time.

I think the main reason I'm seeing moisture (condensation) form on the inside of the headlights is infrequent use. The condensation only forms in the lower corners of the headlights and dissipates after about 20 minutes of operation, but the simple fact than ANY condensation is forming means it's time for me to get the desiccant packs in there before it gets worse. The headlights were replaced under warranty when I had the car in southern Alabama (very humid with wide temperature swings) and it served as my daily driver for about a year before moving to SoCal. The frequency of use after replacement most likely prevented moisture accumulation. It's only been the last two years that I've noticed the issue return, and that coincides with the car only being driven 3-5k miles a year now, with several weeks in between startups.

JettaRed - I have absolutely NO idea why MB would have eliminated the service ports in the updated headlight units! The originals had desiccant packs installed in the service caps when I purchased the car. Unfortunately, the desiccant packs were never replaced when the car sat on the dealer lot for several months. After I bought the car, the fogging issue was so severe that they stayed wet even when on for several hours. This caused damage to the headlight control units and the eyebrow lights started to malfunction. The dealer was very helpful though, recognized the problem without any argument, and replaced both headlights. I hoped the new units had better seals or some other updated technology to better prevent moisture intrusion which would negate the need for the service ports. That's obviously not the case though.

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Old 11-10-2023, 03:37 PM
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LOL desiccant... 😳

Originally Posted by Cartac
​​​​​​....
The originals had desiccant packs installed in the service caps when I purchased the car. Unfortunately, the desiccant packs were never replaced when the car sat on the dealer lot for several months.

After I bought the car, the fogging issue was so severe that they stayed wet even when on for several hours. This caused damage to the headlight control units and the eyebrow lights started to malfunction.
Your experience precisely proves my comments above: once desiccant pack is saturated it becomes a superior source of moisture thats provides bath water for module...


> Discontinued: No Go!
That explains why newer units do not have desiccant service port...

Desiccant is a wrong repair attempt that creates more service issues.

Newish updated headlight still feature defective venting minus desiccant port. Later updates of the updates of the updates... who knows what's what?​​​​​


> Searching for fix:
-- We need to physically see these W212 HL to guess where moist air is circulated in open enclosure.

-- These LED HL designs (¿HELLA?) are used on countless number of many vehicles OEM. We may not need to reinvent the wheel to cancel this struggle.

I am sure others before us have eliminated this issue like what we are trying to do here....
​​​​

+++ Good looks:




detail features except ventings 🫤


Rearward view.


Bottom view LIN Module removed

Courtesy eBay listing...

++++ Not Simple...
Nothing strikes me as obvious. I don't see any vent ports yet from overall HL.

> This whole black box enclosure must be vented in+out.
Inside that must be contained a sealed optical enclosure without circulation.

We want to be successful without unglueing HL appart at least partially improving issue if simplicity is key factor.

-- Partial fix may be to weatherize module and replace enclosure with better after market units once junk'OEM are ruined.


HL Module: the usual fare ...
-- The whole target of this design is to soak module in moisture - No thank you!

-- We can disable that struggle by conformal coating + silicone connectors + drill a drain holes to limit water table. That's what I see in my very near future.



> SCENARIOS: Bumper vs. fender liner.
-- At this stage my HL are ok so I side with not learning to drop my bumper.

-- Rework module and leaky connectors from plastic fender liner... like I said I have not yet dealt with this game.


> Key Question:
​​​​​​What is the easiest way to seal internal optic area to prevent frontal condensation ??

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-10-2023 at 05:00 PM. Reason: soaker
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Old 11-10-2023, 06:40 PM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
partition needed

Originally Posted by juanmor40
I think the fan circulates air around the outside of the enclosure, not air within the "lamp area".
The access cover is not air tight at all.
Juan, you're right: "fan circulates air around the outside of the enclosure, not air within the "lamp area".

Yes, this is exactly what we want but currently the enclosure directly communicates with the vented open side of optical enclosure.

We speak of enclosure because we understand there need to be a partition seal but the geniuses may not have any partition in the defective OEM unit.


¿Can we rework HL to easily create a truly sealed enclosure ?

+++ FAN BEARINGS GRADE...
-- Don't let me find out the LED coolers are sleeve bearing instead of ball bearings?
-- How much dust can these unfiltered fan tolerate?
🤞

++++ TSB JOKER....
The factory trained specialist who wrote the official Mercedes repair speaks volume about realistic expectations.

It's exactly the same misleading with UNREPORTED /MISSING OBD FAULT : the worst chaos makers offenders are kept quiet below radar, peacefully spoiling ownerships to put food on many tables!! 👏


++++ FRIENDLY FIRE :
What OEM feedback controls are available to help repairs are used to mislead specialists.

This reminds me of the "missing check-valve TSB to prevent rattles"...


Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-10-2023 at 07:33 PM. Reason: run around BS
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Old 11-11-2023, 01:15 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Originally Posted by juanmor40
@S-Prihadi , I think the fan cools (circulates air around) the outside of the enclosure , not air within the "lamp area". The access cover is not air tight at all.

The fans are within the lamp area




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Old 11-11-2023, 01:41 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
This is a dilemma with headlights.
Sealed it, how the heat will escape ?

Vent it and have fan, filter must be available, or else dust will dirty the optics. Venting well will prevent fogging.

LED + engine bay heat = NOT A FRIEND.

I think the 2 metallic modules of the lamp is the only heat sink for the LED Bulb modules but it is very indirect heat transfer and the modules themselves DO generate heat because
it is a driver too ( one of them is ).


Below is my car



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Old 11-11-2023, 02:22 AM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
No inner partition

Thank you Surya, now we have more information about these HELLA contruction 👏


rear fan visible from front


one big black box... NO SEPARATE INNER ENCLOSURE


optical components seat on the back of box


no separate enclosure....


Fan does not feature solderless pins 👍


inner heatsink oxidized by moisture

What that means in summary:

-- The outside air circulation for the cooling fan is confirmed to be circulating inside the whole box.

-- There is no separate optical enclosure. No inner seal we can fix.

-- I don't think we want to restrict outside air from entering HL to cool blower fan.

-- I think we are limited to only weatherizing electronic modules without popping the front clear plastic.

-- We definitely don't want wet desiccant or water stagnation at the bottom where a drain should be located.
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Old 11-11-2023, 02:25 AM
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Fogging headlight on S65 2008

So after working on the alternator and the ABC hydraulic pump, both headlights had to come out once for each. I think they are clamshell and ultrasonically bonded from factory. So in time as the car is subjected to stress and or the headlights are out of the car and knocked or harshly tapped the clamshell can separate ever so fractionally.... I am considering a pfte glue the two pack from loctite which has the yellow stick and within 1min apply the fluid (like super glue).
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Old 11-11-2023, 02:36 AM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
consumables

Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
This is a dilemma with headlights.
Sealed it, how the heat will escape ?

Vent it and have fan, filter must be available, or else dust will dirty the optics. Venting well will prevent fogging.

LED + engine bay heat = NOT A FRIEND.

I think the 2 metallic modules of the lamp is the only heat sink for the LED Bulb modules but it is very indirect heat transfer and the modules themselves DO generate heat because
it is a driver too ( one of them is ).


Below is my car
Actually the outside module with heatsinks are the PWM drivers module (MOSFETS to manage power plus LIN I/F).

removable PWM drivers wth heatsinks

The LED Light Emitting Diode junction (bulb) has an heatsink cooled by the internal fan that keeps spinning after engine off.


light source heatsink spreader

We know air circulates inside, that enters with moisture and ambient dust.
I can see these optics becoming consumables. We can't easily swap any of the inside parts.

We can further explore the outside air circulation. Where are the external vent holes located?


Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-11-2023 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 11-11-2023, 02:44 AM
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Not sure if this will help, but I had this same problem with my old ML350. To fix it, I did the following:

-ran a dehumidifier in my garage (I already had one running anyways)
-opened up the hood and directed a fan at the headlight assembly. I left it running all night and by the next morning (12 hours or so) all the moisture had evaporated.
Old 11-11-2023, 03:11 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
Where are the external vent holes located?
I have not found it yet
If it exist It is probably very small and would face down I guess and hence it is no more a "sealed system" LOL
Since all is black plastic, it is very difficult to see.


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Old 11-11-2023, 03:24 AM
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IR Imaging ?!

Originally Posted by S-Prihadi
I have not found it yet
If it exist It is probably very small and would face down I guess and hence it is no more a "sealed system" LOL
Since all is black plastic, it is very difficult to see.
These HL are definitely not sealed at all. Not sealed externally and not sealed internally either. The air that comes in the rear or bottom condensates on the clear front lens cover.


> Chance for fix opportunity...
Reduce internal condensation by using the LED heat to warm up the inside a bit more.
We close some of the air inlet, less moisture comes in, dew point is raised with more heat.


Do you think you can image the hot air vent by using your IR heat camera ? Look at HL rear /bottom for air escaping after HL has warmed up, yes?

Many things to learn every day


++++ DUMBO vs. FANCY....
-- The LED module is temperature controlled as witnessed by its data PIDS.

-- Fancy fix : would be to reprogram internal temp regulation target higher.

-- Dumbo fix : we increase the internal temperature by reducing air exchange. +++ ???+++

-- Thanks HELLA for making internal temp too low to create HL condensation defect. The real fix for professional vehicles is to bump up temp by SW! Vediamo....

++++ Dumbo style: not real good!
Actually the internal temperature being regulated will spin fan faster to circulate more cold moist air inside.
The software setting may be the only viable fix because it's how this problem is created.
It only makes sense that's how it gets fixed as well.

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-11-2023 at 03:59 PM.
Old 11-11-2023, 06:01 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Originally Posted by CaliBenzDriver
These HL are definitely not sealed at all. Not sealed externally and not sealed internally either. The air that comes in the rear or bottom condensates on the clear front lens cover.


> Chance for fix opportunity...
Reduce internal condensation by using the LED heat to warm up the inside a bit more.
We close some of the air inlet, less moisture comes in, dew point is raised with more heat.


Do you think you can image the hot air vent by using your IR heat camera ? Look at HL rear /bottom for air escaping after HL has warmed up, yes?

Many things to learn every day


++++ DUMBO vs. FANCY....
-- The LED module is temperature controlled as witnessed by its data PIDS.

-- Fancy fix : would be to reprogram internal temp regulation target higher.

-- Dumbo fix : we increase the internal temperature by reducing air exchange.

-- Thanks HELLA for making internal temp too low to create HL condensation defect. The real fix for professional vehicles is to bump up temp by SW! Vediamo....

Thermal imager can't see heat in gas/air form. Also no space to work to shoot thermal imager, unless fender well plastic liner removed, and also still can't shoot the HL from all angles.
If I were to have fogging issue, I will make a plug-able vent hole with hose barb.
I can send into the HL my scuba tank air which is crazy dry at under 0.1% humidity and it will take away the moisture inside the HL and dry it.

The problem with condensation if humidity is at 80% RH is real and fast.
https://www.calculator.net/dew-point...us&x=Calculate


Basically a 30C ambient air at 80% RH, when cooled down, the water vapor inside the air will need to become "liquid" and hence it fogs up the HL.

In a diving camera scenario it is the same, when the underwater housing body is plastic and very small air space.
GoPro is a good example, the Hero4, an older version of 2014 end of life.
The camera goes underwater with humidity very high at sea during mid noon, hot temperature too.
Camera internal air get heated by camera, but the camera glass lens its external side gets cooled by sea water, and the "coldness" gets transferred thru the glass lens
and cooled its inner side of the lens inside the housing. So this cool lens has enough temperature difference to condensate or dew point the hot air inside, and fog
itself up at the inside of the camera.

For me in the tropics, my reading/driving glass will fog up when I exit the car... no choice.
Inside the car at 22C and outside at 32C, 85% humidity most of the time = fogging of my glass ( spectacle ).

This is water vapor weight in CC or grams, per 1,000 liters of air. From 20C to 40C at 100%RH.



If the sealing of the HL can withstand a mere 2 PSI and is indeed a CLOSED SYSTEM let say,
we can pump scuba tank air at 2 psi super dry air, say every once a month and the headlight will stay dry and no fogging whatsoever as long as it can maintain 0.1 PSI above local atmospheric pressure.
My scuba tank air dryness is -49C dewpoint or -56.2F at end of its filter life or after approx 250 tanks fill of common ALU 80CF size ( 11 liters ).
If at 1 to 100 tanks filled, it can be as dry as -55C or better -67F
This is inline with US Fire Fighter SCBA standard for winter which is -65F.









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Old 11-29-2023, 03:02 AM
  #19  
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2015 E63 S
After a couple weeks of the car sitting in the garage with the hood up awaiting my return, I finally finished installing the service covers and silica gel packets. There were a couple very frustrating issues I had to resolve to make everything work:

1) I was overly cautious about cutting the opening too large. This resulted in the service cap hanging up on the tabs that are created when the headlight housing is cut open as directed in the procedure. Once I finally re-measured the ID of the opening and the OD of the service cap the problem was obvious. Even though this took a couple hours of extra trimming and fitting to resolve, I was somewhat consoled by the fact that I hadn't cut the holes too large, which would have tragically required headlight replacement. The adrenalin involved in cutting into very expensive headlight housings with a hot knife may vary by individual, but in my case, it was high enough to cause noticeably shaking hands and sudden profane outbursts. If you choose to take on this project, make sure the cap FULLY seats on the headlight housing. See the first attached picture for how the cap should look when fully seated. If the cap doesn't seat properly the foam seal in the service cap will not engage the ridge on the headlight housing. That would definitely not help the fogging problem.

2) The grid that holds the silica gel pack into the service cap hits the fan unit and needs to be trimmed to allow proper seating of the cap. This also took quite a while, and several dozen nasty words (I always swear at my MB in German BTW) to figure out. See the second picture (below) for a hint on how the grid must be trimmed. I didn't see any other way to clear the fan and didn't want to force the cap down, so this was the solution I implemented.

The third attached image shows how I back-taped the opening in the housing while I picked off the melted plastic and smoothed it with a razor blade. This prevented the plastic bits from falling into the headlight housing. The fourth picture shows the installed cap, with moisture-absorbing silica gel packets installed.

If anyone is interested in an update on how this mod affected the fogging in my headlights, please reply. If there is interest, I'll post an update after the rainy drive to the coast I'm making later this week.
Attached Thumbnails W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7889.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7890.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7887.jpg   W212 headlight fogging (moisture)-img_7888.jpg  

Last edited by Cartac; 11-29-2023 at 04:02 AM.
Old 11-29-2023, 03:44 AM
  #20  
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2015 E63 S
In response to the very informative discussion on alternate solutions to headlight fogging, I offer the following:

I think it is highly unlikely that MB will recall W212s for headlight fogging. My car is under extended warranty, and I don't think there's any chance of getting the headlights replaced (for the second time) due to fogging. Even if the headlights were replaced, they'd fog up again after a year or two! WE KNOW THIS! The problem is, these headlights ARE sealed units, but they are imperfectly sealed. There is NO open exchange of air to atmosphere. The headlights are a "closed system" but are indeed permeable to moisture. This is due to imperfect seals, electrical plugs, and a membrane that is applied to the headlight housing that is intended to equalize pressure (and is therefore permeable to air). That concept is reinforced by the fact that the parts list for the service port installation includes "masking tape" to cover up the pressure-equalization membrane. It looks kinda like duct tape, and I'm guessing it reduces moisture intrusion.

I chose to implement the silica gel solution because it is the prescribed MB fix. Not that OEM is always the best source of info, but they do put some thought into this stuff. Silica gel is a very commonly used desiccant, and I think there is some misunderstanding about how this substance works in the previous posts. It is not a sponge that simply retains and releases liquid water. Silica gel absorbs water molecules into its surface and retains the water until it is heated to 250 degrees F in a "dry" environment. It will stop absorbing water once it attains approximately 37% of its weight in H2O. I don't think the headlight units are reaching 250 F. So, I doubt the silica gel will release the absorbed water back into the closed system. Even if it did release some water, when the temperature drops it should re-absorb the water molecules. The silica gel SHOULD absorb enough moisture to prevent the headlight units from reaching 100% humidity and producing internal condensation. The KEY is to replace the silica gel packets once they absorb their capacity of H20.

Since these headlights are a permeable enclosure, I believe it is an absolute eventuality that the silica gel packets will need to be replaced periodically. How often? Who knows... But certainly, the formation of any condensation indicates the need for dry silica gel.

Do I wish my headlights were designed better and never fogged? Absolutely! But, sometimes Scheiße passiert, and we gotta fix stuff ourselves.
Old 06-25-2024, 12:37 PM
  #21  
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Seems like my headlight INTERNAL now has more moisture than some years ago.

Today it was raining and ambient temperature dropped to 26 Celsius.
So it was dark and my car headlight automatic function then have turned on the headlight the whole time the car was running from :
Workshop ( 19.48 minutes ) to Shell Fuel Station to home 20.55 minutes..

I was looking actually at my MAP thermostat behavior, this opportunistic bas-tard program will make my coolant temp hit 103C when there is good cooling reserve caused by the rain.
Hence I took photo of the needle gauge and ambient air temperature and my Banks Gauge.






The temperature inside the headlight is easy 40C, so the cooler ambient temperature of 26C has hit the dew point well before 26C, and naturally fogging will occur inside my headlight. BOTH sides.








At my kind of humidity and more so in the rain.......... any invisible moisture inside the headlamp even if only at 32 Celsius internal headlamp air temperature,
the moisture will become visible fogging of the lens from the dew point temperature. Let alone if at 40 Celsius internal lamp air temperature.


All data points are 5Hz.




.....






.......





Damn, at 85% humidity it only takes headlight internal temperature of 32C to start fogging when ambient temperature drop to a mere 29.2 Celcius.
So basically the headlight have fogged up since I started running to the workshop, but I never pay attention to it.
I reached home and notice headlights are mild fogging because I was spraying my car with water to reduce dirt build up by the rain on the body and
the front and rear inner fenders. I hate all the road sand residue from rain on rear fender hairy/fleece inner liner.
Those sand always ended up on my hair when I worked on my car


I will be doing my own fix and will not follow the MB recommended method + desiccant pack.
The basic concept stay the same as my post # 18
If I were to have fogging issue, I will make a plug-able vent hole with hose barb.
I can send into the HL my scuba tank air which is crazy dry at under 0.1% humidity and it will take away the moisture inside the HL and dry it.


Now I need to start figuring out the dry air injection fittings with some sort of air release vent mechanism at very low pressure, say 0.1 psi or less.
If I can create 0.1 PSI above ambient pressure of sea level for the air inside my headlight and keep it at that, moisture can not enter anymore....in theory.
I can always inject dry air every two weeks, take it like tire pressure control
Before my electronics inside the headlamp get too "wet" and hit my wallet.

2 weeks ago I already noticed on my left headlight ONLY, a fogging event occurred. It was not raining, but I operated the headlight like 10+ minutes for level check while at home, car stationary.



Spider Man's uncle told Spider Man: With great power comes responsibility
Well with car AGE-ing comes problems....


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Old 06-25-2024, 07:00 PM
  #22  
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @55kMi
CANCELING HL FOG

Master Surya we know fog problem in our scuba mask but can not spit inside HL
perhaps you know a good anti-fog spray that never requires cleaning inside HL???


My stupid Hella is also fogging as much as it can.
I just got done reworking poor HL connections.
Some of the things I dislike is HL getting heated by its cooling heatsink: poor design integration!


Lets put on our thinking cap....What if we could help control the air available near HL inlet fan....

Right now it's sucking in hot wet air from engine bay. Any wetness gets evaporated in highly humid air.

Our friends at Hella know what they were doing.
Can we provide dry ambient air sourve possibly away from hot radiator air ?
I am thinking about flex piping directed towards dry cooler source


Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 06-25-2024 at 07:01 PM.
Old 06-26-2024, 12:08 AM
  #23  
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
This fogging thingy is a dilemma.
The GoPro 4 camera with its super small underwater housing always fogging too, so they sold desiccant pack. Me I blow scuba tank dry air.
Like GoPro 4 underwater housing, its lens, our headlight clear lens is the coolest zone , because its outside skin is exposed to cooler ambient temperature, and the cooling transferred into the inside side of the clear
lens. When the air is hot enough inside the HL, the condensation happens at the clear lens inner side.

For this very reason, good quality marine binoculars and hunting telescope are all dry nitrogen filled, super dry air inside, fogging can't happen.
In my bigger underwater camera housing, they now use vacuum pump to extract air out of the housing.
The purpose is actually to sit the seal well and do leak test while on the surface and the built-in vacuums sensor will activate an alarm once
the vacuum is lost from leak while underwater because of seal leak or whatever.... well before actual massive flooding occurs.

This is the vacuum system on my Nikon D800 housing from Nauticam


The VAC sensor also have water probe sensor, so if actual water enter, the alarm will be activated too.





The suction port




The audio buzzer alarm




The complete procedure



The only solution for non fogging headlight is :
01. Dry air inside headlight, if HL is a "sealed" system.
02. Well ventilated HL inner air space, but dust will go in too...use filter then

Anytime there is a temperature difference and humidity is high, is when dew point is reached and the invisible "was" a gas form water moisture within the air then becomes liquid form and it is visible.

Lots of garden lights , the older model using big rainproof housing with seals and long old fluorescent bulb , they fog bad in my country because the air volume is so plenty.



Anyone with high humidity region is the bad luck dude when it comes to fogging.

Here is a 40C or 104F headlight inner air temperature vs humidity of 30% and 80% ( my region ).
See how easy at 80% humidity of the air inside the HL to fog up the headlight when the front clear lens coldness from outside/ambient air is then transferred to lens inner side and exposed to the hot air inside the HL.

Headlight inner air temperature at 40C / 104F. At 30% humidity of the trapped air inside the headlight, the HL lens inner side need to cooled down to 19.1C / 66.4F to hit dew point aka fogging.

.....


Headlight inner air temperature at 40C / 104F.
In contrast below, me at 80% humidity trapped air inside the HL, even at 35.9C / 96.6F lens inner side cooling, I get fogging already



When we see fogging gone after prolong HL activation, that is because the heating of the clear lens inner side happened and air can hold more moisture at higher temperature.
So it is not that the headlamp is now drier than before, it is just dew point thingy..... this is based on "sealed" headlight


Water moisture holding capacity of air vs its temperature.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/m...air-d_281.html




At a mere 30C / 86F, a 100% humidity air has 30.4 cc/ml of water moisture in it. 1 quart is 946 cc/ml .
This is why I need to drain my 1st stage water separator of my dive compressor every 10 minutes. It is a 200 LPM compressor.
So in 10 minutes 2,000 liters of air of 1 ATM, squeezed into 200 ATM , easy 60 cc/ml of water condensate guaranteed.
31 minutes my compressor running, I get 1 quart of water.

In my humid country, when rain comes, any car without AC will suffer fogging of every damn glass in the car. Can't drive, not safe.
Truck driver used to suffer this in the past because no AC system installed.
So they opened their window 1/3, no choice..be a bit wet but kept car inner temperature balanced with outside to prevent fogging.


Last edited by S-Prihadi; 06-26-2024 at 12:10 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-28-2024, 01:18 PM
  #24  
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Some information.

Dynamic LED 640/641 and 642 is a sealed system, that is true.



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==================



Static LED 632 is not a sealed system.



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Work in progress for ANTI-FOGGING modification........





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...







Did I break anything so far ? He-ll yeah, guaranteed fragile & brittle plastic I will break.



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The planned dry air injection ports.




The planned location of the ports.




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Using OP's photo, I am trying to estimate how to not hit the fan or wires.
Too bad OP is showing LEFT headlight, and I took out first the RIGHT headlight because it is easiest, no dam windshield water bottle in the way .






But lucky , the clearance is good. Sent my boroscope. I made a small hole using my soldering iron, so that no debris get into the light.








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Will continue tomorrow..........
Old 06-28-2024, 01:27 PM
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2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
My solution. Done and done.




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