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I took the GLE to a local detail shop for a ceramic coat. They had the car for two days and when I picked it up last night, discovered they totally botched the job! The hood is covered in streaks, the side panels look ok but I need to inspect everything with a flashlight. This indicates the product dried too fast, probably because the horizontal surface was still too warm. It has been in the upper 90's to low 100's here all week and I told the guy when I dropped it off I wasn't in a hurry if it was too warm to do the job. Now he has a mess to fix, I took the car and we agreed to schedule it in the next week or two when the weather cools down. He used Adams 9 year Graphene Ceramic so removal is going to be a tedious chore. Guess it's not my week...
It needs to be buffed off. If he's a real detailer he should be using a higher grade product then adams.
My GLE hasn't been coated yet. The guy who did my front-end PPF and my window tinting gave me a price of $1,300. When we were buying my wife's Honda CRV, I was talking to the finance guy and he said he knew a guy that would do it for almost half the price. ($775). When I went back to the guy who did my ppf and told him I had someone that would do it for half the price, he told me to be careful with that. That usually the cheaper guys use product that is sub-par. I actually thought he was just saying that to justify his higher price. I guess after seeing this thread, he was right. Lol
My GLE hasn't been coated yet. The guy who did my front-end PPF and my window tinting gave me a price of $1,300. When we were buying my wife's Honda CRV, I was talking to the finance guy and he said he knew a guy that would do it for almost half the price. ($775). When I went back to the guy who did my ppf and told him I had someone that would do it for half the price, he told me to be careful with that. That usually the cheaper guys use product that is sub-par. I actually thought he was just saying that to justify his higher price. I guess after seeing this thread, he was right. Lol
He was right lol. Detailers aren't something you cheap out on. You can always ask what products they use. If you can buy it on Amazon, it should be a no go. Most real shops need to be certified by the company that produces the coating. Something to think about.
He was right lol. Detailers aren't something you cheap out on. You can always ask what products they use. If you can buy it on Amazon, it should be a no go. Most real shops need to be certified by the company that produces the coating. Something to think about.
The guy who did my ppf and tint, he is a certified installer of XPEL products so he uses all their stuff; The ceramic coating is next on my list of things to do.
Check out Obsessed Garage. Most can do it themselves with a quality product like CSL and topped with XO. Anyone saying any coating lasts 9 years is a lier for the corporate machine.
Check out Obsessed Garage. Most can do it themselves with a quality product like CSL and topped with XO. Anyone saying any coating lasts 9 years is a lier for the corporate machine.
I knew not to believe the 9 year line of BS. I had the 2020 GLE done by a local place who did a wonderful job and it held up very well but unfortunately his business didn't survive the pandemic. This place looked good, the shop seemed well equipped and professional. Looks can be deceiving.
I knew not to believe the 9 year line of BS. I had the 2020 GLE done by a local place who did a wonderful job and it held up very well but unfortunately his business didn't survive the pandemic. This place looked good, the shop seemed well equipped and professional. Looks can be deceiving.
A Shop is using adam's I thought this was some local detailer that drives around and comes to your home lol. This shop should not be in the coating game.
You get what you pay for here. On my GLE coupe, I paid $2500 - $3000 for XPEL, PPF up to the A-Pillar and XPEL tint to match rear windows.
I would ask for a refund and go to a professional. If your in South Florida, DM for a rec.
I got the XPEL ppf as well. Originally it was just the front end, I think I paid about $2,300 for that including tax. Then I went back and had him do the A pillars (it bothered me the bottom of the A pillar wasn't protected) and he charged me $200 plus tax for just the A pillars.
I'm getting the xpel tint redone though. I originally told him I wanted the front windows to match the back, he didn't measure the back and was just like "20 is the usual factory tint" but I noticed it seemed lighter than the back windows. I got a meter and found the back windows are about 15%. (Actually 13. Something), so I'm going back tomorrow to get the 20 removed the 15% installed.
The odd thing, is we got my wife's CRV tinted after mine. Her's seemed darker than mine and when I measured it, it was 16%. When I talked to my tint guy, and told him I think on my wife's car he put 15 instead of 20, he said he put the same 20% that he put on my car and that he only had 20% at the time. Odd that the same % tint appears darker on one of my vehicles. Perhaps it's the glass that causes the difference?
I'm no expert but have been researching the subject. Every shop would have you believe that they have the best Ceramic product. The marketing hype is everywhere. It's probably best to read reviews and visit the detailer to look at an actual vehicle. The amount of SiO2 is a good place to start when comparing Ceramic products.
There appear to be high quality Ceramic products available to the consumer but like a lot of things...it's complicated. The advantage of a professional is their knowledge, experience and tools as well as the actual product. They have turnover so even professional jobs might differ in quality.
Adams Graphene is an interesting product. All Graphene products appear to last longer...they might be the next step up in Ceramic coatings. (And can be applied over Ceramic) Adams provides a UV flashlight (in the Amazon kit) to check for missed spots in the application. Obviously the OP's installer did more things wrong than just applying the product at a high temperature..if that's what really happened. At a minimum they should have noticed the streaks and asked for more time to fix the hood.
I have a new truck that I've experimented on recently. After a couple of washes with Meguires products I sprayed a small panel with 303 Graphene. It leaves a black residue on the applicator that won't wash out. As a typical male I didn't bother to read the instructions...so I ended up with a deep shine that exposed some small hard water spots. I doubt that they will buff out, glad I only did a small area.
I have a new vehicle arriving in November so that's why I'm experimenting with different products on my truck...that will see automated car washes this winter. I still might have a professional do the initial Ceramic coating onmy new Porsche but the Graphene option looks promising for a more durable coating...IMO.
I'm no expert but have been researching the subject. Every shop would have you believe that they have the best Ceramic product. The marketing hype is everywhere. It's probably best to read reviews and visit the detailer to look at an actual vehicle. The amount of SiO[size=8333px]2 [/size]is a good place to start when comparing Ceramic products.
There appear to be high quality Ceramic products available to the consumer but like a lot of things...it's complicated. The advantage of a professional is their knowledge, experience and tools as well as the actual product. They have turnover so even professional jobs might differ in quality.
Adams Graphene is an interesting product. All Graphene products appear to last longer...they might be the next step up in Ceramic coatings. (And can be applied over Ceramic) Adams provides a UV flashlight (in the Amazon kit) to check for missed spots in the application. Obviously the OP's installer did more things wrong than just applying the product at a high temperature..if that's what really happened. At a minimum they should have noticed the streaks and asked for more time to fix the hood.
I have a new truck that I've experimented on recently. After a couple of washes with Meguires products I sprayed a small panel with 303 Graphene. It leaves a black residue on the applicator that won't wash out. As a typical male I didn't bother to read the instructions...so I ended up with a deep shine that exposed some small hard water spots. I doubt that they will buff out, glad I only did a small area.
I have a new vehicle arriving in November so that's why I'm experimenting with different products on my truck...that will see automated car washes this winter. I still might have a professional do the initial Ceramuc coating onmy new Porsche but the Graphene option looks promising for a more durable coating...IMO.
Automatic car wash is going to destroy your paint even if you have a coating on it....
Adams last for a few weeks tops. I've put it on my beaters before. The shine is impressive, but not the longevity. I've had turtle wax last much longer...
I take good care of my vehicles and enjoy "hand's on" when it's appropriate.
Originally Posted by Benzman33
Automatic car wash is going to destroy your paint even if you have a coating on it....
I am under no illusion that Ceramic doesnt offer much protection. As I said i'm experimenting on my truck to help me decide on the application I'll choose for my incoming vehicle. I somewhat agree that a car wash leaves fine lines in the clear coat they will buff out. Also black trim over time will show slight damage. My wifes Audi is 7 years old and automated car washes for 6 of those years. It still looks new until you examine it closely in direct sunlight. Even a three bucket hand wash isn't perfect, there is still a build up in the mit. The iron from brake dust on the lower vehicle is a challenge even using a pressure washer prewash.
The brushless car wash here is not the answer, mits they use apparently build up grit (maybe it's the microfiber towels) that also ads fine lines in the clearcoat...although less. Then there are the water spots that need wiped down later. Hand washing a vehicle in the winter is not a great option for those of us in the Northern USA.
Adams last for a few weeks tops. I've put it on my beaters before. The shine is impressive, but not the longevity. I've had turtle wax last much longer... Adams made/makes numerous products. If you used their new Graphene product it must have been in the last few months. Professional reviews give Adams high marks for durability.
This is not a product issue, its a detailer skill issue. Honestly, which coating someone uses matters way less than their skill at detailing. 99% of the work of doing a coating is in the propwork beforehand, polishing and perfecting the paint and then the coating is easy. If that detailer did that to your car, I would not take it back to him. Demand a full refund and take it somewhere else. Your ammo is that picture posted on every review site you can find for his business.
Graphene doesn't make coatings more durable, it makes them more water spot resistant. In fact, graphene tends to reduce the longevity of a coating, or the graphene wears out and you lose that water spot protection.
Like with PPF and window tint, the installer is way more important than the product. For me, what I would like is for a detailer to do all the prep and then let me install the coating of my choice.
I'm using Zymol Titanium paste wax on my GLE. and E 350. With a black Vehicle is shows everything and I want to maintain that showroom finish on my vehicles. It extra work om my part but I enjoy the results. no swirls in the paint at all.
Graphene doesn't make coatings more durable, it makes them more water spot resistant. In fact, graphene tends to reduce the longevity of a coating, or the graphene wears out and you lose that water spot protection.
Whats your source of information?
I've spent hours researching, looking at reviews, YouTube, etc. Not one source disputes Graphene's superiorty and durability over Ceramic. Some products (maybe most) combine Graphene with Ceramic. Graphene tends to cost more, might be harder to apply and is more temperature sensitive during application. Here's some typical comments that I find...not from Graphene product literature.:
Greater Longevity Compared to Ceramic Coating. Ceramic coating is a reliable form of protection for automobiles, and one of the main factors in its industrial acceptance is its durability. But it’s interesting to note that the durability might be strengthened much more with the addition of graphene. Graphene is a 2-dimensional material with a honeycomb lattice that makes it light and robust. It gives the graphene-coated surface unrivaled years of durability. After application, you can benefit from the 10H hardness glossy finish for 3–4 years. Rain or shine won’t cause your glass shield coating to deteriorate.
Super Hydrophobic Characteristics. Due to graphene’s chemical makeup and honeycomb arrangement, water slides off the surface far more quickly than a traditional covering. Fewer evaporation results in fewer unpleasant water spots remaining behind your car’s bonnet because less liquid is on the surface.
Extreme Gloss and Richness of Color. Your paint’s luster and beauty are significantly improved by the nanoparticle Graphene layer, which leaves a gorgeously rich, deeper gloss.
Pulls Away Dust. Graphene incorporates these advantages because of its chemical characteristics. The conductivity characteristics of graphene are believed to make it “anti-static” more technically. This suggests that it repels grit and other tiny or microscopic elements and prevents them from adhering to the surface to which it has been applied.
Depleted Water Spots. Combining typical ceramic coatings with graphene makes the surface’s upper layer more heat resistant because conventional ceramic coatings are known for retaining heat and escalating water spots. By doing this, you can avoid wasting money on polishing water stains that have left their mark on your car’s surface.
Many years of using ceramic coatings and doing tons of research and watching and reading about them for years. I’ve been an avid detailer for 30 years, did it professionally for a time long ago.
Graphene coatings are just ceramic coatings with the addition of Graphene in addition to SiO2. What you posted above is centered around water spot resistance not longevity. A good source of knowledge is Yvan Lacroix who was the lead chemist for Optimum for a long time and now has his own company, DIY Detail and C6 Ceramics. He was one of the first developers of ceramic coatings for Optimum way back when (Opticoat which was basically the first ceramic coating). They have Graphene in their 3 year coating but that’s it, and it doesn’t really last very well. He also talks about the number of “years” and how it’s basically just hogwash that the industry forces people to use.
This is a good discussion with him of their lineup of coatings and what makes each one different and what those differences do for you:
“Ceramic” is a buzzword, “Graphene” is too. You have to look at what it’s actually doing for you.
Graphene is a great addition to a coating but durability isn’t why they add Graphene.
Graphene is not a buzzword...per Wikipedia.... Graphene (/ˈɡræfiːn/[1]) is an allotrope of carbon consisting of a single layer of atoms arranged in a honeycomb[2][3]nanostructure.[4] The name is derived from "graphite" and the suffix -ene, reflecting the fact that the graphite allotrope of carbon contains numerous double bonds.Each atom in a graphene sheet is connected to its three nearest neighbors by σ-bonds, and a delocalised π-bond, which contributes to a valence band that extends over the whole sheet. This is the same type of bonding seen in carbon nanotubes and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and (partially) in fullerenes, and glassy carbon.[5][6] The valence band is touched by a conduction band, making graphene a semimetal with unusual electronic properties that are best described by theories for massless relativistic particles.[2] Charge carriers in graphene show linear, rather than quadratic, dependence of energy on momentum, and field-effect transistors with graphene can be made that show bipolar conduction. Charge transport is ballistic over long distances; the material exhibits large quantum oscillations and large and nonlinear diamagnetism.[7] Graphene conducts heat and electricity very efficiently along its plane. The material strongly absorbs light of all visible wavelengths,[8][9] which accounts for the black color of graphite, yet a single graphene sheet is nearly transparent because of its extreme thinness. Microscopically, graphene is the strongest material ever measured.[10][11]
Yes thank you lol. The point is the addition of Graphene may or may not do anything for you. It’s like Teflon, everything had Teflon in it in the 90s. That did nothing for most applications, teflon was a huge buzzword. When it was baked onto a pan it was great, added to a carpet cleaner it meant nothing. They put Graphene in tire dressing now. What does that do? Not much. Everything is also “ceramic”. Is a “ceramic” spray sealant any better than an older school polymer spray sealant? Probably not. Just because ceramic coatings are great and very durable doesn’t mean a “ceramic” tire shine is going to be more durable.
Watch that video and listen to Yvan. He only invented ceramic coatings.
The video is intersting but I'm not sure that they are the leader in coatings today. A lot of money and expertise has gone into Automotive Coatings as the demand has exploded.
I have no opinion about your opinion so that's not the point here. You assume that you know more about the subject than others so use what you want on your vehicles. What worked best yesterday might not be tthe best today. I have a few years of experience with Ceramic coatings on my vehicles. If a Graphene coating offers an advantage then I intend to make that change. Still haven't decided, but I'm leaning toward letting a Detailer do my next car because it arrives in the winter. I might go with Ceramic and add a Graphene coating later since it can be added as a Ceramic topcoat.
There are Detailers that are willing to pay more for a Graphene product that is also more dificult to apply. If there is no advantage they are making a poor business decision. If you want to see more than one opinion do a search. Durabilility and longevity are universally mentioned as the advantage of Graphene as an Automotive coating. Based on the charactoristics of Graphene it seems logical that it offers an advantage if properly applied with a Quality product. That's my opinion with what I think I know today.
Most members are probably going with the Detailer they like vs the coating. Most DIY'ers should probably stick to an "easy to an apply" product unless they have the knowledge, patience and equipment to do a professional job including paint correction.
Products like some of Meguires car wash Ceramics are easy to use. I use them on my truck and my wifes car when I hand wash for a nice shine. It's a short term improvement over just a wash and easier than wax. No wax lines on PPF either.
They’re nowhere near the leaders in coatings today, but he invented ceramic coatings, he’s very knowledgeable.
Honestly, what coating you choose doesn’t really matter all that much. They are all more similar than they are different. Find a good detailer and use whatever they use.
I don’t assume I know more than others, but I know a lot about this and I’m not gonna pretend I don’t. Graphene does not increase the longevity of a coating. It increases hydrophobicity and it improves heat resistance which helps with water spotting which is an issue with ceramic coatings in general. Graphene is all about slickness.
Like you said spray ceramic products are all excellent, there are many and I love buying them and trying them (I probably own 20 different ones right now), and since I use them every time I wash do I really need a coating? Not sure I do.
Most members are probably going with the Detailer they like vs the coating
Very true.
When I contacted this detailer, I asked what product he intended to use and he said the Adams gold label. I was familiar with it from several YouTube videos and hadn't seen any negative reviews. Since my original post I've had time to go over the rest of the car and it looks good. I believe his mistake was not allowing enough time for the hood to cool before the product was applied. Maybe just in a hurry, maybe a distraction, maybe incompetence...I don't know.
I asked how he plans to correct this, he said he'll have to polish the entire hood to remove the coating and re-apply. I already knew that but wanted to see what he said so I could make a judgement call on whether or not to give him a chance to make it right. I'm not thrilled about this but I'm not unreasonable either. God knows I made some mistakes 40 years ago when I was starting out in my chosen career path. For whatever reason, sometimes things don't go as intended. It's not life and death, it's just a car. It will work out in the end.
07-10-2024, 11:27 AM
