AUDIHenry

Hi all,

Great forum! I am in love with the R129 body style! I want to get a car that is pre-1997/1998, maybe red/black/tan/desert color exterior, but I had a look at KBB values, and the V8 and the V12 are trading hands at roughly the same price. Why is this? Is the V12 undesirable in some other respects? What could it be besides gas and cost to maintain?

Anyway, I'm looking for a smooth-riding car that will do its role as a daily driver. Which would you pick? Is the SL600 smoother, despite being heavier? Does it offer other advantages besides more power and torque? Is it tunable?

So tell me the pros and cons.

Cheers!

Oh, and one more thing: is there wind-noise with the aluminum hard top? Does rain seep through?

Untertürkheim

I picked the SL600 after considering both options. The V12 is much more expensive to own than the V8, but the extras on the car more than justify it for me. In addition, it's my weekend car, so the operating cost was not really a factor. I love the ADS suspension, multi-contour seats, full leather, and of course, there's nothing like the feel/sound of a MB V12.

AUDIHenry

Thanks for your input!

Can you comment on the hard top question posed above?

AMGSport

While certainly not as tight as a fixed roof, the hard top is amazingly tight and secure. Wind noise is very minimal, and flex - though noticeable - is not intrusive.

I like the idea of a folding hard top ie the R230, but I wasn't ready to drop that kind of money on a weekend driver.

The hardtop was one of my major factors in deciding on the R129.

mebeJOE

Untertürkheim

I've never had water leak, and it is louder than a fixed-top car. One major factor is how the car was stored, inside (with nice fresh gaskets) or outside where everything is falling apart? Good seals will keep wind, water, and noise out. Also, if you're looking at getting a newer one, the Pano-roof is nice. If you can find one that's CPO, ****** it up and buy the extended bumper to bumper 100k warranty. It will save you quite a bit of money and headaches. Also, what years are you looking at? I'm assuming you're aware of the many changes that took place between 1990 and 2002.

Bagger Lance

My first post and agree this is a great forum. I've learned a lot here already. Since you and I are in the same boat thought I would chime in. I'm also looking to purchase my first SL and have done a bunch of research, test driven both SL500 and SL600, and had 3 cars through the pre-inspection process with my mechanic.

You will only get leaks if the rubber seal that runs along the top of the windsheild is compromised. It's a cheap part. I was fortunate that I drove the last pre-inspect vehicle to the mechanic during a heavy thunderstorm. Had the hard top off/soft top on and found the leak. The car only had 48K miles on it and was in good shape otherwise. The hard top is very quiet on these cars.

I noticed a different ride on the SL600. It definately feels nose heavy due to the extra 300 + pounds under the hood. But what a rocket! Reminds me of a 60's muscle car. Maintenance is higher because of two things; for some reason the German answer to 12 cylinder engines is mating two 6 cylinder engines together in a common crankcase. According to my mechanic, both MB and BMW did it in the 90's. As a result, you are basically maintaining two 6's from an electrical standpoint. The other issue is there isn't much room to work under the hood. There may be a time when the engine must be pulled to do seemingly minor repairs. The extra front end weight also takes it's toll on suspension and other weight bearing components.

On the positive side, the SL600 comes with nearly every SL500 option as standard equipment. So you get a LOT of bang for the buck.

My conclusion is be prepared to spend more for basic "under the hood" maintenance on the 600 and if you like a rocket, go for it.

The 500 is a more balanced car in my opinion. It feels more nimble on the road and still has plenty of power. Once you understand the options, you have to keep your eyes open to get the right SL1 and/or SL2 package. All depends on your needs. Oh, and forget the built in phone, it's totally worthless unless you want to purchase some infrastructure upgrades. You could get lucky on a 01/02 model and get away with a bluetooth puck upgrade. It's all about the requirement for e911 services so look for a car that has a v60 cradle...

Sorry I'm getting to far down in the weeds.

Both cars seem to be bulletproof for the long haul, but I'm avoiding the 91 through 95 models due to the stupid German law requiring biodegradable plastic wiring covers. Sorry guys. Excessive heat can accelerate the breakdown process and replacing engine harnesses and tracking down electrical failures can be expensive. From 96 on you get a 5 speed transmission vs. 4 in both models. Have to assume any kinks in the tranny were worked out after 96. Ken Rockwell did a marvelous review on the 97 you may want to check out.

I put a bid on a 01 SL500 Yesterday. Keeping my fingers crossed. The R129 is the only model that I can get all my golf stuff in the trunk.

SL BRABUS

if you got a lot of $$$ to burn then go with the 600.......

crb49

Nice post. on the observations, esp. the weight issues, IMHO. Welcome to you all. Keep us posted regarding the hunt...and be prepared to bring pics.

500 or 600 really doesn't hold any secrets. SLBarabus sz it all. Would have loved the 600 thrills but the 500 presented itself and I probably wasn't up to the increased expense of the 600 for a weekend driver. (But then again, try me! )

My '01 is lo miles and I'm very happy with it. I know all the stuff about '99 and prior being "All Mercedes", etc. and I know some of the engine spec is valid. I was chasing a '99 for about a month before I stumbled onto the '01 but the car is still 2 years newer (mine actually wasn't registered until Feb of '03) and the old saying of 'getting the newest car you can afford' held true for me in this case.

To you both, get the cleanest one you can find. They aren't cheap to fix.

And BTW, the sticks are very important. Who want's to drive a car like this and not be able to take it to the course??? Defeats part of the purpose.

Bagger Lance

Ah yes...the hunt...
Finding the girl of your dreams is heavenly, but sometimes the hunt takes a while.

I can't even consider the R230. Not enough trunk for my junk!

Guess I'd better work on my game if the SL is going to carry my bag!

AUDIHenry

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for the replies!

Two questions:

1) I know this varies from car to car, but what is a good number of miles on a SL500? At what point does the car require more maintenance than it's worth? That is, at what point are original parts dying, being rebuilt, replaced, etc?

2) Someone mentioned warranty. If I buy an SL500 that has fewer than 100,000 miles, is it covered up to 100,000 miles under MB warranty, regardless of year? If it is part 100,000 or if there is no warranty, can I purchase an extended warranty from MB and how much do they cost?

Thanks so much!

Edit: Also, can someone tell me what variant of the R129 this car is?

http://www.eisenmann-technik.de/ausp...le/SL-R129.jpg

It seems to have a chrome grille or something. Is this the rare AMG version or something else?

Bigdot

it just has the Euro clear frosted corners. they add a LOT.
Mark

mebeJOE

On the warranty issue: I purchased my 2001 about 18 months ago. It was not until after my purchase that I found out it had a 100,000/7 year Starmark warranty.

I believe they are NOT standard. Before you buy, call a Mercedes dealership service dept and give them the VIN of the car -- they can tell you if there is a warranty and when it runs out.

Because the warranty length was 7 years, however, you will not be able to find too many cars still in warranty. Probably only 2001's and 2002's. Maybe a few 2000's.

As far as repairs: I purchased my baby with about 42,000. She now has 62,000. There has been only one problem that were not driver-caused. That was something with the emissions system that I can't remember. It was fixed under warranty.

However, the repairs can be expensive. I've paid $465 and $295 for A and B service.

After a while, as I discovered one problem after another, I think I figured out that my baby had an unreported accident OR perhaps a high speed tire blow-out.

First it was discovered that there was a short in the halagon head lamp assembly, passenger side. That was a $1200 warranty repair. After that, I discovered that an inside body panel inside the wheel well was missing. Just a little plastic/fiberglass thing. $200. Then the steering felt really really squiggly or darty and I was getting a lot of bumping noises from the suspension. The dealer replaced some parts of the steering assembly under warranty. No idea what the cost was. Still steered funny. I changed the Dunlop run-flats to Pilot Sports. $1300. Much better. but it still bumped. Took it to the dealer for an alignment. Still made bumping noises. At the next B service somebody was finally paying freaking attention and found that some part in my suspension had come loose, they tightened it for free and that was that.

Idiots, eh? I had Mercedes dealer mechanics and tire-chain store guys up in the suspension at least 5 times and they didn't even notice. Idiots.

Anyways -- other than the smog thing, they were all owner-induced problems (previos owner). Other than that -- smooth sailing. Fun sailing. ZERO problems.

But the parts and service are sooooo expensive. I just paid $300 for a front brake job. Just the pads and flushing the brakes lines. OUCH. STEALERSHIP prices. I'm sure the guy on the corner would do it for less.

crb49

The driver is usually the deal breaker. A buddy has had two Z3's and has always been envious of my trunks in the 380 and the 500. This past year had enough room in the 500 for two walking bags and overnighters (in the back ledge) for a three day road trip.

AUDIHenry

Hey guys,

One other question I have is regarding build quality. Some say that in the mid-90s, Merc gave up overengineering cars in favor of cost cutting. Did this indeed happen after the Daimler-Chrysler merger or before? Which years are bulletproof? I want the 5 speed auto, but before merger. Does this mean 96/96/98?

Anything to watch out for in these cars? Which parts fail the earliest? What is your souce for finding good, clean pre-owned models, other than a dealership w/ high markups?

I love this place. Will stick around even if I don't have one yet.

Cheers!

Edit: One more question, guys: In stock form, which of the two engines is quieter at idle, V12 or V8? How fuel efficient are both models in real world city/highway?

Cheers!

Bagger Lance

Audi,

You've posted over a dozen questions so far. Most of them very broad in scope and any single question would require a lengthy response to answer completely.

I know most of the answers, but only because I have been doing a lot of research before I made my first post on this board. In other words, if you type a query in the search window you will likely find what you are looking for. If you don't find what you need, I'm sure there will be help from plenty of nice people here who want to add more content rather than rehash what has already been posted.

Not trying to be a butthead, but I've been around forums long enough to know how folks respond. As a proof point, I run a golf forum using the same software as this site. We aren't as large, but 4000 members keep me busy in my spare time. No offense intended at all.

I'll assist with a few observations regarding SL reliability.

This assumes that the previous owner had regular and correct maint. performed.

• Don't worry about the tranny until you are coming up on 200K miles.
• Don't worry about the top end until the Odometer is nearing 200K miles.
• Don't worry about the lower end of the engine until you are coming up on 400K miles

You may get many more or a few less miles on the above potential high dollar trouble spots.

Electrical, hydraulics, suspension, exhaust, A/B service and brakes will keep food on your mechanics table.

• Mass Airflow Sensors
• Oil weaping from various places requiring new seals
• Convertible top cylinders
• Cat converters
• Brake rotors and pads
• Engine mounts
• ride leveling hydraulics (an option)
• engine sensors
• engine/ignition control units
• Little gunked up electric switch stuff that turns on idiot lights
• Broken plastic pieces that cost a fortune, e.g. rear view mirrors
• Worn out rubber stuff

I could be way off base and there are folks here much more knowlegable. I'm not even an SL owner yet, but I've owned MB's since 85.

There is more (and less) because like any car, stuff wears out due to driving habits, maint. habits, heat, humidity and little rodents chewing through wires. Set a grand aside for each time you visit your mechanic just in case. Most repairs and basic maint. cost between $100 - $500

The only difference between an SL and your run of the mill car is the parts are not only produced in limited quanitites, but they are also built on the high quality/expensive side. An SL is an old computer on wheels and it's packed in a very limited space.

I think this was mentioned, but look for good cosmetic condition. Body/Interior can be the most expensive to repair.

Now that I've probably scared you away, just remember...MB SL's are probably the longest lasting convertible on the road today. And certainly the best overall luxury ride.

When does cost of repair overcome resale value? Is there ever a time when an SL is ready for the boneyard? Depends on the last owner. MB has made a few oinkers in the past, but the SL isn't one of them.

Any experienced owners are welcome to correct me. I'm just a newbie passing on info I've picked up.

crb49

Gee Bagger, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Any other questions???

AUDIHenry

Bagger,

After the appraent forum crash, there is only about a page worth of information. I've looked through a lot of threads and didn't find what I was looking for. If you don't want to answer, you're not obligated to. I help people out in Audi forums, as well as others, but the whole point of a forum is to exchange ideas, not to complain about time taken to do so.

Anyway, can anyone answer the issues relating to the years as well as the overengineered bit?

Cheers!

jjay911

My rear view mirror is 850 bucks. Im going with an After Market with the Back Up Camera. JJ

Bagger Lance

Sorry dude, didn't know about the forum crash. Man I hate it when that happens.

Just trying to be helpful.

Be back when the SL is in the garage.
Buh Bye

Bagger

Bagger Lance

Any chance those after market mirror goodies have a built in Radar Detector, LCD SatTV Tuner, and Back Up camera too???
I found a $1300 OEM model that only had the garage door opener.

crb49

One other question I have is regarding build quality. Some say that in the mid-90s, Merc gave up overengineering cars in favor of cost cutting. Did this indeed happen after the Daimler-Chrysler merger or before? Which years are bulletproof? I want the 5 speed auto, but before merger. Does this mean 96/96/98?
After. Changes made post 1999. The later years are still excellent according to my ace MB tech. Not sure when 5 speed came in. I think around '95. Take a look at http://www.kenrockwell.com/sl/index.htm for good over all info. I think Bagger mentioned this earlier.

Anything to watch out for in these cars? Which parts fail the earliest? What is your souce for finding good, clean pre-owned models, other than a dealership w/ high markups?
See Ken Rockwell site above for mechanical history, care, etc. For sales try www.oursl.com. Found mine on www.AutoTrader.com. Any of the other online car sites. www.Cars.com I think, etc.

One more question, guys: In stock form, which of the two engines is quieter at idle, V12 or V8? How fuel efficient are both models in real world city/highway?
V8/V8 mid to high teens. Lo 20 if you baby it. Don't know about the 12-probably low teens.

Good luck.

mebeJOE

Hey, Bagger answered lots of your questions. Plus gave you a wealth of information. It was a good post.

Here is more I copied from another thread:
I highly recommend this page also, Rockwell's page, which somebody else suggested: http://www.kenrockwell.com/sl/r129history.htm

As far as "build quality": To my knowlegde, there were no major changes after the Diamler/Chrysler merger in the R129 except for the engine. Yes, that is a major change. But the build quality of the remainder of the car seems to be that of the pre-Chrysler era -- super solid.

1997 seems to be a good year for the 500. It still has the 32 valve engine. It has the 5 speed tranny. It dropped the $800 dollar motorized mirror.

Personally, I like the 2001 Formula 1 Special Edition. Only 20 made. Silver interior trim instead of wood. Cross-drilled rotors. AMG thin spoked wheels. Other cool appearance changes. You can find pictures I posted about 18 months ago. There was one on ebay a couple of months ago.

HA HA -- but I am partial to my Baby.

You're kidding about the noise at idle question, right? Most of the owners I see are looking for ways to make these babies louder. I don't think anyone is going to have a good answer for you on the comparision (I could be wrong, of course). I suggest just sitting in one of each and listening.

AUDIHenry

Thank you. You should re-examine the overengineering issue, because quality did drop somewhere in the late 90s or maybe even before.

And no, I'm not kidding about the idle question. I think it's stupid that people put loud exhaust, the sound alone does nothing for me. I prefer the engine sound, not some fake exhaust sound. The other day I heard an Acura that sounded like flatulence. I think the owner must be real proud.

RENNtech-er

I have owned a '91 300SL 5-speed, '94 SL600, '02 SL500 (all gone), and now an '04 SL600, and briefly drove a '97 RENNtech SL7.4 (the white one that is the subject of another thread). The previous responses to the initial question have been pretty much right on point. After driving all of these cars over many years, the 8 cylinder vs. 12 cylinder question is a no-brainer for me: I'll take the V12 any day. That is not to put down the SL500 in any way, nor those who prefer it over the SL600, so please, no flames. This is personal preference. For me, the torque of the V12 is the telling factor. It gets you off the line quickly with less throttle application than you will need in the SL500. And this difference is immediately apparent even to non-gearhead drivers or passengers. My Significant Other thought the '02 SL500 was "under powered" compared to the '94 SL600. Yes, the heavier SL600 will be less nimble in the twisties, but for me, that is not the point of the SL, 8 or 12 cylinder. At idle the 12 was imperceptible, the 8 a bit less so, and the smoothness of the 12 in building revs was like an electric motor. Previous comments about additional maintenance complexity and cost for the 12 all being valid, I would still go with the 12 any day every day over the 8. And as wonderful and classic as the 129 series is, if you can scrounge up the $$ for a 230 series SL, you will not be sorry. The 230 series SL600 is a total beast dead stock--before having the RENNtech guys work their magic on it--and light years beyond the 129 SL600 in every aspect, IMO.