Chop

1999 Mercedes-Benz SL500, 40,000 Miles, Roll Bar Issue Update/Summary.

I have the above model car and the Roll Bar is in the down position. It was working fine till I tried it recently.
In the down position you can hear the motor going when you press the down button.
When you press the up button nothing. While I was hitting the up side of the button the Roll Bar went up once and then I put it down by hitting the down button. Then it wouldn’t go up. Stuck in the down position. Most manuals talk about it being stuck in the up position.
Should there be a red light on the Roll Bar rocker switch?
The soft top and windows work fine.
I was wondering if some one has seen this and if a wiring diagram is available
Dash warning light goes off after a few seconds with engine running.
Roll Bar switch red lights not on or blinking
Could it be operator error?
It did have the tires off the front recently, could this be the other safety system ? They tell me there are two ways of operating the roll bar manually and the other when your tires are of the ground.
How do I raise up the “manual ram” to catch the bar again.

Thanks for your help.
Carl Cioppa
508-259-0818

lynns

Please define “manual ram”.

Please understand that your MY99 has a Controller that controls both the Roadster Soft Top (RST) and the Roll Over Bar. You may need to have a MB STAR Diagnostic System (SDS) connected to your 38 PIN connector in order to read/erase any Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) that are interfering w/ your ability to raise and/or lower the Roll Over Bar via the dash switch.

If necessary contact your Independent Technician and ask if they have an SDS and how much they will charge to diagnose your problem.

I hope you don't have to have your RST Controller p/n 1298203926 tested and rebuilt for $595.00 if it's gone South.

Chop

Lynns,
The term "Manual Ram" was used by someone that replyed
to a question I had.

I can't define it.
Just got a sticker and they checked the codes as being OK.
The manual talks a great deal about the bar stuck in the up position
haven't run across any thing talking about it stuck in the down position.

One time when I continued to hit the up side of the roll bar dash rocker switch it went up once? Then I manually put it down by hitting the down botton part of the switch ounce.

Thanks for your help.

Chop

lynns

When I turn my ignition switch to position 2 there are two red lights that go off after I initially turn on the ignition.

Please check your #3 and #4 fuses in the trunk and #19 fuse in the engine compartment.

Press and hold the upper portion of the Roll Bar switch for at least 5 seconds until the roll bar drive mechanism audibly engages. Then press the lower half of the switch to lower the roll bar.

Read pages 68, 69, 96 of your 1999 Owners Manual.

How is condition of your battery?

Lower both side windows, start your engine so that the battery is getting a charge, lower and raise the soft top, then try your roll bar.

Chop

Lynns,

I will check the fuses,

The instructions in the owners manual takes you through a process when
the roll bar is in the up position.
My situation is that my roll bar is in the down position.
When I hit the down switch I hear a noise around the rear top deck.
Some thing is moving.


Again, thanks for the info

Chop

lynns

If all the above fails please feel free to come over to http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r129-sl-class/ and do a Search of "roll bar stuck" or post a question to our forum. Much has been discussed w/ regard to your problem.

lynns

The sound is the hydraulic pump located in the trunk under the spare tire. How is your hydraulic fluid level in the hydraulic pump?

Chop

1999 Mercedes Benz SL500 Chassis 129-068 40,000 Miles
UPDATE
Two issues: Roll Bar & Soft Top every thing was working when I put it away for the winter although I did have a few chances to drive it over the winter.

Roll Bar is in the down position and the manual switch
on dash will not lift the bar. If you push the bottom of the roll bar
switch, you hear a motor going. When you push the top of the rocker switch you hear nothing.

I checked the fuses 3&4 in trunk and 19 under the hood and they are ok.
When I turn the ignition switch to two, all lights on the dash
that should come on, come on and after starting the engine they all go off.

The car wasn’t driven much over the winter, so I‘m charging the battery now.

Soft Top starts to go down the, windows go down back part
of the soft top goes up and the rear lid opens and then it stops
there.
The red light on the soft top switch blinks. You can push the top
switch forward and the rear deck goes down and then the back portion of the soft top goes down and locks and the windows go up.

Thanks for your help!

Carl Cioppa
508-259-0818

Top Hydraulics

Chop,

you may have separate issues, or they may be related. For example, the roll bar will not be allowed to go up if the controller perceives that the top operation has not been finished. Let's square away the problem with the top first.

It appears that your battery has been low, and the behavior of the top can be explained by windows not being synchronized. Let's check on that first. Do the windows drop just a fraction of an inch when you open the doors? If not, then you need to synchronize the windows. The synchronization is described in your owner's manual, but I will summarize it below.

Just for completeness, here is why the window synchronization is important after the battery has been low or disconnected. Model years '95-'02 have a window drop feature that drops the windows a little when you open the doors. The reason for the drop feature is to prevent the re-designed seals above the windows from getting crushed by a closing door. In '95-'02 model years, there are no limit switches in the doors any more, but a "Hall effect" sensor in the window motor counts the window motors' revolutions and the soft top controller (which controls the windows and the roll bar as well) figures out the window position from there. That means, the controller relies on its own memory to know where the windows are at. If the battery voltage has been very low or the battery has been disconnected for much more than an hour, the controller will loose the volatile memory, which includes the window positions. Thus, you need t0 define a starting point after the battery has been low or disconnected. The way to tell whether the windows are in synch, again, is to see whether the windows drop a fraction of an inch after you open the doors.

Here is the window synchronization procedure - it can be done with the top fully up or fully down.
Important:
- engine off
- both doors fully closed
- trunk fully closed (battery charger cables can mess this up...)
Procedure:
- run both windows all the way down (separately or together), hold the down buttons for a couple of seconds.
- run both windows up (separately or together) and keep holding the window switches in the UP position for at least a couple of seconds - better make that five seconds.

Please let us know what you find, and we will take it from there.

-Klaus

klaus@tophydraulicsinc.com

Chop

Klaus,
You were correct the windows needed to be synchronized. Top works fine now.
The roll bar is in the down position.
If I hit the bottom part of the rocker switch with the roll bar down I hear a noise like a motor is running. When I hit the upper part of the rocker switch to put the roll bar up I hear nothing.
I understand that there are two ways the roll bar will come up, when the wheels leave the ground and manually.
The roll bar indicator shows up on the dash and after starting it goes out with all the other lights.
I have no red lights on the roll bar rocker switch.

Any ideas ?
Thanks for your help!! Appreciate it!!

Chop

Top Hydraulics

Chop,

I'm glad your top is working again! The next logical step for me is to check whether the top's operation is finished, since the controller won't let the roll bar go up before the top is either fully up or fully down. It appears as if the top operation has finished in your case, but I'd better double-check:

Do you have any chime going off and/or the red button for the soft top blinking when you start moving the car after you have finished the top's lowering or raising?

If your answer is that there is no chime or top warning light, and there were no error codes detected by Star Diagnosis, then I would next check out the switch for the roll bar. Let's hear your answer first, though...

Klaus

klaus@tophydraulicsinc.com
www.tophydraulicsinc.com

Chop

Klaus,

It looks like the top operation must be finished. I do not have
any chimes or the soft top switch blinking when I'm driving.

Thanks again

Chop

Top Hydraulics

I am assuming that this means you had the soft top/controller codes read with Star Diagnosis or at a shop that has a special Mercedes code reader, right?

If so, then your controller should be okay, because it normally self-diagnoses fairly well. Fuses and hydraulic pump/fluid are not the issue, because the top moves and the roll bar at least tries to go down when you push the roll bar switch down. That's why I would tackle the switch itself next. It's a bit of a pain to get the switch out, because you have to remove the wooden console first. I'm running a bit short of time right now, so I hope someone can jump in here and explain the steps needed for removing the console...

-Klaus

Chop

Klaus,
I went to my local garage to get a sticker and had no codes showing.
I'm sure it's not like having the Mercedes dealer use their special equipment
to detect codes.
Do you think I should have someone with a Star Diagnosis reader look at it before I go after the switch?

If it is the switch where do I get the instructions to replace it?

Thanks for your time.

Chop

Chop

Klaus,

Would the local garage scanner pick up the things that may have to be reset?
if you think it's the switch I'll change it.

Does anyone know where I can get the instructions on how to change the console roll bar switch?

Chop

Top Hydraulics

Chop,

it takes specialized equipment to read the error codes on the soft top controller, and most shops do not have it. Getting codes read at the dealer usually costs you about $150, and most indies with the proper scanner are cheaper.

Recalling from memory, here is what it takes to remove the wooden console to get access to the roll bar switch and any other switches for that matter - hope I'm not missing anything major:

1) Remove the radio and the climate control unit with a "radio removal tool". You need that tool for the removal; I've seen them on eBay as cheaply as $1.

2) Pull out the trim around the gear selector.

3) Pull ash tray insert, unscrew two small screws (forward) that hold the ash tray in place, remove ash tray.

4) Remove two screws below ash tray that hold down the wood console vertically.

5) Lift up the wood console from the rear. It hinges close to the top.

If you decide to go that far, please let me know, and I will check out one of my spare switches for the signals it is supposed to give in the "roll bar up" position.

Klaus

Chop

Klaus,
Are there any resync that can be done for the roll bar like the windows?
Thank you, I'll let you know what I decide to do.

Chop

Top Hydraulics

Chop,

the roll bar has limit switches and does not require a soft resynch. The only reset there is for the roll bar is the one after it has deployed in an emergency, and that is not the case for you.

Klaus

Chop

Klau,
Is there any way that the Roll Bar switch on the console can be tested before I start taking it apart/

Again if I hit the bottom of the switch with the Roll Bar down I can hear a motor going or something making noise.
when I hit the top of the switch I hear nothing. checked all fuses involved all good. No red lights on the switch.

Thanks for your continued support !
Chop

Top Hydraulics

Chop,

I understand your concern and can only pass on what I would do next after reading your detailed description of the problem.

If it's not a big deal for you to spend a few bucks, you may want to have the codes for your soft top/roll bar read by a shop that has Star Diagnosis. I assume that "getting a sticker" means your engine codes only have been read through a more standard scanner.

There is one more way to check the switch function, and that is by finding the correct pins on the connector going into the soft top controller and figuring out what signal they need to produce. I am handy with an electric probe myself, and I would still take the route of quickly removing the console to get access to the switch if it was my car...

Klaus

klaus@tophydraulicsinc.com

Chop

Klaus,
When I go back to work on Thursday (ADESA auto auction Fram., MA) I will ask around about the Star Diag. scanner.
Depending on the results I may go for the switch.
Found one on QE Discount Parts for $49.50
Would you know of any other switches that might be available?

Again, I appreciate your time!

Thanks,

Chop

Top Hydraulics

Chop,

Star Diagnosis used to be exclusive to MB dealers, then shops were able to buy it for insane amounts of money, and now it's possible to buy clones from China for $1,000 and under.

Something raised my alarm flags: your work involves auto auctions. If by chance you have bought this car at an auto auction, then it would be very difficult to get any history on it, and there is a much higher likelihood that someone has messed with the car who didn't know what they were doing. That would change the way we go about finding the problem. Thus, if you have purchased the car at auction, I would recommend having all codes read at the dealer or at a reputable shop who confirms that they have Star Diagnosis. Otherwise, we might be chasing our tails here for a long time. Please confirm.

Klaus

klaus@tophydraulicsinc.com

Chop

Klaus,

I purchased the car two years ago from a relative in Conn who owned
it for eight years. I'm the third owner. Now has 41,000 miles on it.
Everything in the car worked till the roll bar issue this month.

I know what you mean about auctions, Been working there for eight years and what I have seen that goes on I would never by at any auction!

On Thursday I'll talk to the Mercedes rep regarding the Star Diag. tool.

Again, Thanks

Chop

symplered

Hey Chop,

For what it's worth. I had a similar problem. My roll bar was stuck in the up position. It deployed after running over a tire which caused my car to lift off the ground momentarily.

No matter what I did, the roll bar wouldn't go down nor would the top open. I had the usual blinking red light on the top switch. I finally disconnected the battery and the hardtop controller for about ten minutes.

After reconnecting the controller then the battery, I tapped the top switch maybe five times, then it lowered and the top open.

Chop

Thanks for the input.

Chop